044 Interwoven Discipleship with Liz Daye

Send us Fan MailDiscipleship can feel like a stack of expectations you’re supposed to survive: the right books, the right habits, the right answers, the right level of ministry output. When real life hits disability, chronic illness, medical trauma, depression, grief, burnout that whole system often leaves people feeling like they failed God. We sit down with Liz Day, an autistic hospital chaplain, teacher, and theologian, to name what’s broken in modern Western discipleship models and to offer a more spacious, more biblical way forward.Liz’s book *Interwoven Discipleship: How the Trinity Redefines Power, Belonging, and Christian Community* drives our conversation as we connect deep Trinitarian theology to everyday church life. We talk about God as one, God as three, and God as alive, and why the movement and mutuality within the Trinity matters for how we treat each other. From there we get concrete: how consumer church culture and ministry hierarchies shape who gets included, why “in Christ” is a we-word not a me-word, and what it looks like to replace power hoarding with interdependence and shared agency.We also go to the place where theology becomes real: suffering. Liz shares pastoral wisdom from hospital chaplaincy about honoring agency, building safety slowly, and refusing to cover pain with quick doctrinal fixes. If you’ve ever wished church felt more like family and less like a system, this conversation will give you language, courage, and practical next steps.If this resonates, subscribe, share it with a friend who feels on the fringe, and leave a review. What would change in your community if belonging came before boxes?Learn more about Liz Daye: www.lizadaye.comBuy Interwoven Discipleship: https://link.amazon/B07LvTwzM (Affiliate link) Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailYour mental picture of the Nativity might be built on a few tiny assumptions that snowballed into a whole Christmas “scene” we all take for granted. Jessica sits down with author Julie Remington to pull those assumptions apart gently and rebuild the story using what Luke and Matthew actually say, what Bible translation choices imply, and what archaeology suggests about daily life in first-century Judea. Julie shares why she wrote The Forgotten Nativity, a historically accurate children’s book that refuses to settle for the usual romanticized stable, pale-skinned characters, and one-size-fits-all “Bible robe” visuals. We talk about why illustrations matter for faith formation, how creators can sort through conflicting sources, and what it looks like to imagine responsibly when the text is silent. Along the way, we tackle details people rarely discuss out loud: What did homes look like? Where would animals be at night? What kind of jewelry did women wear? How do we think about Mary and Joseph’s likely ages without importing later tradition? Then we zoom in on the big shift: Luke 2’s “no room in the inn” and why the Greek points to a guest room in a family home. That changes everything, including the meaning of the manger as a sign and the emotional feel of the incarnation. We also explore why the shepherds were likely local village kids, why girls can fit the scene, and why portraying Mary’s labor with a midwife and other women may be the most historically grounded choice of all. Julie also explains her use of reconstructed Aramaic names and an accessible, neurodivergent-friendly font for young readers. If you care about Bible context, the historical Nativity, and giving your family a Christmas story that feels rooted in real history, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves Christmas traditions, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.Additional Resources:Kenneth Bailey's chapter: https://www.ivpress.com/Media/Default/Downloads/Excerpts-and-Samples/2568-excerpt.pdfNativity Paper Dolls: https://wewhothirst.com/product/small-nativity-paper-dolls/ With house: https://wewhothirst.com/product/historically-accurate-nativity-bundle/Advent Devotional and Calendar: https://wewhothirst.com/product/advent-devotional-calendar/Podcasts:013 Historical Context of the Nativity: Part 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0JB2UbMLt76nX2YhzMEKpP?si=3yeE4Or8Q3q6K28EYPHzcw014 Historical Context of the Nativity: Part 2: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5idrcfr5CdKazCf8bDe572?si=ad3Z5qZxT9CcLTqO9mQFTQ031 Presence Over Power: The Nativity as God's Answer to Trauma: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3U3MaDfCnBQA0QhTzmlmaC?si=6abdeffa9d1642f0 We Who Thirst's Christmas Shop: https://wewhothirst.com/product-category/christmas-and-advent/  Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailSome Bible passages don’t just confuse us, they sting. When Leviticus talks about menstruation and childbirth, a lot of women quietly wonder: Why would God call my normal body “unclean”? Why would worship feel off-limits because of bleeding, recovery, or postpartum realities? We name that discomfort out loud, then slow down and read Leviticus 12 and Leviticus 15 the way the original audience would have heard them.We start with the big picture of Leviticus: Israel has just come out of Egypt, God is forming a people, and the tabernacle sits at the center as the symbolic seat of his holiness. That’s why the book keeps talking about clean and unclean. It’s not a secret code for “good person” and “bad person,” and it’s not meant to trap anyone in shame. It’s a practical framework for living near sacred space without fear, especially in an ancient Near Eastern world where other religions blamed bodily fluids on demons, curses, or the underworld.Then we get into the details that change everything: Leviticus 15 treats semen emission and menstruation as parallel categories, and that makes sense once you understand ancient theories of conception and “seed.” Far from demonizing women, the law levels the field and refuses later misogynistic myths about menstruation being uniquely dangerous. We also talk through the childbirth laws in Leviticus 12, why the longer timeline after a daughter’s birth doesn’t automatically signal lesser value, and how these rhythms could offer real-world mercy: rest, recovery, reduced exposure to crowds, and clear boundaries around sex and pressure.We close with the hope of the gospel. Jesus doesn’t just forgive sin; he also removes ritual barriers so our bodies aren’t treated as obstacles to God’s presence. If this conversation helps you rethink Scripture, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review so more people can find it. What part of Leviticus has been hardest for you to read? Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailIf your mental picture of Old Testament women is “invisible and powerless,” it may be built more from modern debates than from the ancient world the Bible actually describes. I grew up with a complementarian framework that treated authority as a gender-based umbrella, but digging into ancient Israelite households forced me to rethink almost everything I assumed about women of the Bible.We walk through why the ancient Near East is not one flat culture, comparing Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the later Greco-Roman world that shaped New Testament household codes. Then we get practical: social status in antiquity runs through multiple factors like age, wealth, citizenship, and free or enslaved status, not just gender. That complexity opens the door to what Carol Myers calls a heterarchy, where power comes from multiple sources and does not sit in one simple vertical chain.From there, matriarchal authority becomes hard to miss. The matriarch oversees food preservation, storage, and rationing, along with clothing, medicine, household religion, and managing resources like lamp oil. That lens even reframes “gluttony” as disrespect for communal survival and for the woman tasked with making the harvest last. We also talk mutual aid networks among women, why isolation is dangerous, how Abigail’s story looks different when you understand household economics, and how women-led guilds like midwives and professional mourners operate outside male power structures.If this changes how you read Scripture, share it with a friend who loves Bible context, and please subscribe and leave a review so more people can find the show.Patricentric Heterarchy in Ancient Israel: https://youtu.be/OO-E36xt_2E?si=CB808X0tA1f9062IPatricentrism & Heterarchy Notes: https://wewhothirst.com/product/patricentrism-heterarchy-notes/ Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailWe walk through the deeper reasons we can no longer hold complementarianism, focusing on Bible reading frameworks, power, and the new-covenant identity of believers. We explain why historical context, Genesis, Jesus’ teaching on authority, and adoption to sonship reshape how we think about women in ministry and leadership. • Defining complementarianism and egalitarianism in plain terms • Why our minds changed without re-litigating the “big three” passages • How hermeneutics and historical context steer interpretation • Reading Genesis 1 to 4 as unity and shared priestly calling • Why “helper” does not mean subservient assistant • What matriarchal authority in the Old Testament reveals about household power • How Greco-Roman culture influences New Testament household codes • Why Jesus’ “not so with you” challenges hierarchy systems • Adoption to sonship as legal status that impacts church life • Priesthood of all believers as a shared calling for men and women • Practical Q&A on gifts, parenting, church choices, and finding resources Resources mentioned:SubstackEve as first theologian and priestly representative:Article: Transforming Eve’s LegacyPodcast: Women in Context: Eve (Gen 2-4)Article: Eve the first theologianSubscribe to my patreon for full explanations and lectures of the 7 Reasons Complementarians believe in Hierarchy pre-fall https://www.patreon.com/c/WeWhoThirstInstagramseries:Does Adam being formed first mean he’s the boss?Does woman as “helper” mean she’s subordinate?Adam named Eve, so is he in charge?Humanity is referred to as “man,” so therefore are men in charge?Did Satan come to Eve first to undermine God’s creation order?Does God speaking to Adam first after the fall mean that he (Adam) has primary responsibility?Since Adam represents the human race, he’s responsible, not Eve?Matriarchal Authority Lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO-E36xt_2E Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailIf “God the Father” has been the only picture of God you’ve ever been given, you might not realize how much of Scripture you’re missing, and how much comfort might be locked behind that one doorway. I’m joined by Elizabeth Berget, speaker and author of "Love Like a Mother: How the Sacred Work of Motherhood Reveals the Maternal Heart of God," to explore a biblically rooted and historically grounded idea that can feel both startling and healing: God loves us like a mother.We talk honestly about why “God as Mother” can trigger panic or pushback, especially for people trying to hold tightly to orthodoxy and avoid creating God in our own image. Elizabeth shares why the belief that God has no gender is not a modern invention, and why maternal language is not a replacement for Father language, but an expansion that helps us take the whole Bible seriously. Along the way, we dig into why churches have often ignored these passages, how male-centered perspectives shape preaching and discipleship, and how women are often forced to translate faith through metaphors that never reflect them back.We also get practical and pastoral: how the maternal heart of God speaks to postpartum anxiety, exhaustion, and the pressure to “do it right,” plus how this message lands for people facing infertility, childlessness, loss, estranged relationships, or complicated family stories. If you’ve ever thought, “I just need my mom,” this conversation offers a fresh way to experience God’s gentleness and care.Subscribe for more, share this with a friend who needs tenderness, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.Buy Love like a Mother! (Affiliate link)Follow Elizabeth Berget:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabeth_a_berget/Threads: https://www.threads.com/@elizabeth_a_bergetSubstack: https://elizabethberget.substack.com/Website: https://elizabethberget.com/ Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailFive women approach Israel’s highest leaders with a simple question that turns into a nation-shaping legal reform: what happens to a household when a father dies with no sons? We walk through the daughters of Zelophehad in Numbers 27 and watch them bring a clear, courageous case to Moses, Eleazar, and the assembly. Then we slow down and read what God actually does with their request, because the ruling is bigger than a one-time exception. It becomes biblical inheritance law for all Israel. Along the way, we build the backstory from Numbers 26, where the census sets up how land in the promised land will be divided by tribes, clans, and households. That context matters because ancient Israel is not operating with modern individualism or a modern “women’s rights” framework. The household is the core social unit, and land is not just property, it is covenant, legacy, and belonging. We also talk about why a “name” matters so much, how afterlife assumptions shape the fear of being forgotten, and why God’s response points to faithfulness over pedigree. We also tackle the follow-up in Numbers 36, where tribal leaders raise a real concern about land drifting across tribes through marriage and Jubilee. God’s amendment protects tribal unity without erasing the daughters’ inheritance, and Joshua 17 shows the ruling applied when Israel finally enters the land. If you care about women in the Bible, Mosaic Law, ancient Israel, covenant theology, or how Scripture protects the vulnerable, this story has more depth than most people realize. Subscribe for more Bible law breakdowns, share this with a friend who loves the Old Testament, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show. What question do you still have about the daughters of Zelophehad?To learn more about the role of Matriarchs: https://youtu.be/OO-E36xt_2E?si=bKp6fpO4BF8VEDim Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailWhat do you do when someone’s theology has walls built around it, especially on women preaching and women in church leadership? I’m trying a looser “coffee chat” format and taking your real questions from Instagram DMs and my weekly AMA, answering candidly with the research background I already have and pointing you to better sources when I can. We start by naming the spectrum of complementarianism (hard, middle, soft) and why hard complementarians often won’t hear egalitarian arguments head-on. My angle is to back up and talk hermeneutics: how we interpret Scripture, how much historical context matters, and how we weigh commands against patterns like women prophets and teachers. I also share a conversation starter that tends to expose hidden assumptions: Scripture tells wives to submit, but where does it explicitly command husbands to lead? From there, we jump into questions on Mary’s genealogy and why Joseph’s genealogy shows up in the Gospels, including a fascinating scholarly proposal about how first-century people may have understood Joseph’s fatherhood. We also tackle parental estrangement and abuse dynamics, what “honor your father and mother” can mean when contact is unsafe, whether “care for widows and orphans” should include single women today (especially given ancient household economics), the ethical tension in Psalm 51 with Bathsheba, and why “biblical marriage” is not a plug-and-play template for modern romantic choice. Subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, share this with a friend who loves Bible interpretation and real-life application, and leave a review telling me which question you want me to tackle next. Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailForget the legend. Meet the woman the Gospels actually introduce: Mary Magdalene, a named disciple from Magdala who funds the mission, follows Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem, stands at the cross, and becomes the first herald of the resurrection. With Rev. Dr. Jennifer McNutt, we unravel centuries of conflation and let Scripture lead the way back to clarity.We start by dismantling the most persistent myth: Mary as a penitent prostitute. Dr. McNutt walks us through how Western harmonizations, editorial subheadings, and art fused unnamed figures with named women, especially the “sinner” of Luke 7 and Mary of Bethany. Then we return to Luke 8, where Mary is named first among the women who traveled with Jesus and supported his ministry from their resources—evidence of status and agency in a world where female patronage was real and consequential. That single chapter reframes discipleship itself and exposes how much we miss when we skip it.From there, we trace Mary’s narrative arc across all four Gospels to the garden of John 20, where the risen Christ commissions her to announce the good news to the disciples. We explore why that moment satisfies New Testament criteria for apostolicity, how Junia and Joanna reinforce the pattern, and how translation choices have often dulled the force of Mary’s proclamation. Dr. McNutt also addresses modern portrayals—from The Chosen’s strengths and missteps to the long shadow of The Da Vinci Code—and situates the Gospel of Mary within its Gnostic context, contrasting it with the embodied, eyewitness testimony the canon preserves.This is a thoughtful, text-first exploration for listeners who want scholarship without the jargon and history without the haze. If you’re ready to trade the composite caricature for the faithful witness the evangelists intentionally highlight, press play. Then share this conversation with someone who still thinks Mary Magdalene’s story is small. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what did you relearn about Mary today?Dr. McNutt's website: https://jenniferpowellmcnutt.com/McNuttshell substack: https://substack.com/@jenniferpowellmcnuttThe Mary We Forgot: https://amzn.to/4cGpUoE (affiliate link) Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!

Send us Fan MailA simple question from a five-year-old—“Why didn’t Jesus have female disciples?”—opened a door we couldn’t close. We follow the text, not the artwork, and uncover a larger circle of disciples that includes women who learned at Jesus’ feet, funded His ministry, and stood fast when fear scattered others. The aim isn’t to add something modern to the Bible; it’s to remove what tradition and illustration have taken away.We start by clarifying language. Luke 6 shows Jesus calling many disciples and selecting twelve apostles from among them. When He points to His disciples and says “whoever does the will of my Father… is my brother and sister and mother,” He draws a family that includes women as disciples. Luke 8 then names Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna—patrons who provided out of their own resources. In the ancient world, patronage meant influence, networks, and public honor. These women weren’t background help; they were mission-critical partners who likely outranked many men socially. In Bethany, Mary chooses learning and Martha serves; Jesus affirms discipleship as the better portion while dignifying diakonia as real ministry.From there, we widen the lens at the cross and the tomb. Collating the Gospels reveals a cluster of named women—Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, Salome, Joanna, Mary the mother of Jesus, her sister, possibly Mary of Clopas—and “many other” women from Galilee. Even allowing for overlapping names, the group is larger than the standard two or three in most art. They are last at the cross and first at the empty tomb, entrusted with the first proclamation of the resurrection to apostles who struggle to believe. Their courage, patronage, and attentive faith reshape how we picture the movement of Jesus.We also confront how children’s Bibles and church platforms can normalize women’s invisibility, teaching absence as if it were Scripture. Restoring the women the Gospels name is not cosmetic; it forms how our daughters and sons imagine calling, learning, service, and witness. We close with practical tools—readings, visuals, and resources—to help families, pastors, and teachers show the mixed company that truly followed Jesus. If this conversation challenged your mental picture, share the episode, subscribe for upcoming interviews with leading scholars on Mary Magdalene and Jesus’ female disciples, and leave a review to help more people meet the women the text refuses to forget. Artza Boxes (Affiliate): Artza is a seasonal subscription box that brings the Holy Land to life. Code: WEWHOTHIRST20  Support the show...................Follow We Who Thirst on Instagram, Threads, or YouTube! To join Jessica LM Jenkins' mailing list, or access the full research bibliography for this episode visit www.wewhothirst.com/links . Thank you for supporting the Women of the Bible in Context podcast, your contributions make this ministry possible!