241. TNE TALKS: Flanked by a Brovangelical // Reverend Susan Langner

Summary In this conversation, Tim and April discuss Taylor Swift's new album and the criticism it has received from some conservative Christians. They address the accusations of blasphemy and witchcraft, as well as the critique of explicit lyrics. They also highlight the hypocrisy of supporting Donald Trump while condemning Swift's music. The conversation reveals the subjective nature of art interpretation and the need for self-reflection within religious communities. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding the concepts of witchcraft, demons, and Christian nationalism. They critique the views of Sean Feucht, a Christian musician and activist, who uses buzzwords like witches and demons without fully understanding their historical and cultural contexts. They also highlight the financial motivations behind Feucht's activism and his association with other controversial figures like Mark Driscoll and Eric Metaxas. The conversation touches on the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the role of Christian Zionism, as well as the harmful effects of fear-based ideologies and the importance of respecting individual beliefs. Takeaways The criticism of Taylor Swift's album by conservative Christians reveals the subjective nature of art interpretation. Accusations of blasphemy and witchcraft are based on selective reading and misinterpretation of lyrics. The hypocrisy of supporting Donald Trump while condemning Swift's music exposes the double standards within some religious communities. Misunderstandings and misconceptions about witchcraft and demons are prevalent, often fueled by a lack of historical and cultural context. Some Christian activists, like Sean Feucht, use buzzwords without fully understanding their meanings, leading to misrepresentations and fear-based ideologies. Christian nationalism often promotes a narrow and exclusionary view of Christianity, disregarding the diversity of beliefs within the faith. Respecting individual beliefs and avoiding the imposition of one's own beliefs on others is crucial for fostering understanding and dialogue. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Mispronunciations 07:06 Engaging with Different Perspectives on LGBTQ+ Affirmation 27:27 Sean Feucht's Urgent Message and Misguided Critiques 35:26 The Subjectivity of Art Interpretation and the Need for Self-Reflection 45:52 Navigating the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict with Nuance 52:56 Respecting Individual Beliefs and Avoiding Imposition Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Tim recaps his experience attending the Exiles in Babylon conference and shares his thoughts on the event. The conference covered various topics such as Israel and Palestine, deconstruction and reconstruction, women and patriarchy, LGBTQ+ issues, and politics in the church. Tim discusses the controversy surrounding the event due to the host, Preston Sprinkle, holding a non-affirming stance on LGBTQ+ issues. He shares his own conflicted perspective on the matter. Tim also highlights the diversity of speakers and attendees at the conference and the positive conversations that took place. Takeaways The Exiles in Babylon conference covered a range of topics that are currently in the cultural zeitgeist. The event was controversial due to the host, Preston Sprinkle, holding a non-affirming stance on LGBTQ+ issues. The conference had a diverse range of speakers and attendees, fostering positive and thought-provoking conversations. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Gratitude 06:32 Tim's Role at the Conference 10:34 Protesters and Criticism 15:47 The Burden of Side B Perspectives 25:40 Changing Perspectives and Encouragement 29:47 Supporting the Work of Project Amplify Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Bri Stensrud, founder of Women of Welcome, and author of the book, Starts with Welcome: The Journey Toward a Confident and Compassionate Immigration Conversation, discusses her passion for the immigration conversation and how it changed her personal and professional life. Bri reflects on the disconnect between the evangelical culture she grew up in and the reality of the immigration issue, and how it led her to question her faith, politics, and personal life.  Takeaways The immigration conversation is complex and goes beyond legal and illegal distinctions; it involves understanding the holistic stories of individuals affected by violence, corrupt governments, and civil war. The evangelical culture often prioritizes self-preservation and curated spaces over sacrificially living for others, which can lead to a disconnect between faith and compassionate action. Compassion for immigrants and refugees is not a political stance but a prophetic movement rooted in the teachings of Jesus. Engaging in the immigration conversation requires holding elected officials accountable, advocating for change, and recognizing that no political platform aligns perfectly with pro-immigrant values. Meeting people where they are in their understanding of immigration issues is important for fostering compassion and understanding. Chapters 00:00 The Transformative Power of Encounters 03:46 The Disconnect Between Evangelical Culture and the Reality of the Immigration Issue 08:41 Moving Beyond Legal vs. Illegal 12:18 The Need for a Prophetic Movement: Compassion as a Spiritual Responsibility 27:53 Compassion and Understanding in Immigration Conversations 30:24 Starts with Welcome: A Faith-Filled Perspective on Immigration 33:44 Addressing the Broken Immigration System and the Need for Reform 41:37 Proximity and Compassion: Essential Elements in Immigration Advocacy Read Start with Welcome by Bri Stensrud Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the recent events involving Josh Howerton and Mark Driscoll. They talk about Josh's apology and the similarities between his apology and another pastor's apology. They also discuss Mark's controversial remarks at the Stronger Men's Conference and his use of the Jezebel spirit trope. The conversation delves into the problematic nature of these actions and the reactions from the audience and online community. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the recent controversy surrounding Mark Driscoll and his involvement in the Stronger Men's Conference. They explore the dynamics of the charismatic world and its tendency to look for demons everywhere, as well as the intersection of Christian nationalism and charismatic beliefs. They also highlight the lack of accountability and the documented legacy of abuse associated with Mark Driscoll. The conversation touches on the internalized misogyny within evangelical circles and the problematic views on women's modesty. They conclude by discussing the recent developments involving John Lindell and his call for Mark Driscoll to repent. Takeaways Apologies should be genuine and not copied from others Using the Jezebel spirit trope is sexist and misogynistic Mark Driscoll's actions and remarks are calculated and attention-seeking The reactions from the audience and online community reveal the problematic nature of these actions. The charismatic world is often primed to look for demons everywhere, and this tendency is amplified when combined with Christian nationalist beliefs. Mark Driscoll has a history of abuse and a lack of accountability, yet he continues to gain a following and promote his new book. There is a prevalent issue of internalized misogyny within evangelical circles, with many women defending Mark Driscoll despite his problematic views and treatment of women. John Lindell has called out Mark Driscoll for his actions and has received death threats as a result. The concept of 'modesty' in evangelical circles is often misused and places the burden on women to manage men's thoughts and actions. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Setting 07:07 Josh Howerton's Apology and Plagiarism 31:26 Mark's Calculated Actions and Reactions 43:04 John Lindell's Call for Mark Driscoll to Repent Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim Whitaker and Dan Koch discuss the upcoming book by Richard B. Hayes, a respected New Testament scholar, titled 'The Widening of God's Mercy: A Thoroughly Biblical Account of LGBTQ Affirmation in the Church.' They explore the potential impact of the book and the various reactions it has received. They also discuss the importance of acknowledging the harm caused by previous non-affirming positions and the need for an apology. They consider the strategic implications of the book and its potential to shift the conversation in white evangelical spaces. They highlight the importance of listening to the voices of queer Christian scholars and the potential for the book to provide validation and support for those navigating their faith and sexuality. In this conversation, Tim Whitaker and Dan Koch discuss the complexities of personal beliefs and the influence of family and media. They explore the idea of holding contradictory views and the importance of integration and growth. Takeaways Richard B. Hayes, a respected New Testament scholar, has written a book titled 'The Widening of God's Mercy: A Thoroughly Biblical Account of LGBTQ Affirmation in the Church.' The book has received various reactions, ranging from skepticism to hopefulness. It is important to acknowledge the harm caused by previous non-affirming positions and to apologize for the damage done. The book has the potential to make a significant impact in white evangelical spaces, particularly among the rank and file members of churches. The strategic implications of the book should be considered, as it may provide validation and support for those navigating their faith and sexuality. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 06:47 Reactions and Expectations 26:52 Validation and Support for Navigating Faith and Sexuality 42:28 The Importance of Integration and Growth Connect with Dan Koch Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary Sharon McMahon discusses her background. She emphasizes the importance of pluralism and focusing on behaviors rather than beliefs. She shares her passion for government and history, as well as the process of writing her book The Small and the Mighty.  Takeaways Engaging with different perspectives can be challenging but is essential for personal growth and learning. Online harassment is a significant issue, with women and minorities often facing more severe threats and abuse. Christian nationalism is a threat to democracy, with some proponents advocating for authoritarianism and the exclusion of certain groups. Polarization in American politics is not new, but the current era is unique due to factors such as the internet and media fragmentation. The founding of America was not explicitly intended to be a Christian nation, and the principles of democracy should be prioritized over religious affiliation. When voting, it is important to consider a candidate's character, commitment to democratic principles, and long-term impact rather than focusing solely on specific policies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:00 Questioning Faith and Beliefs 06:04 Pluralism and Behaviors 09:56 Dealing with Misinformation and Fake Experts 14:56 Passion for Government and History 21:47 Challenges of Being a Content Creator 32:44 Engaging with Different Perspectives 35:38 The Meanest Group on the Internet 41:21 Polarization in American History 45:02 Christian Nationalism and its Impact 51:21 The Founding of America and Christian Influence 01:02:18 Critical Thinking in the Voting Process Connect with Sharon McMahon Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim responds to a viral clip of a mega church pastor giving marriage advice. He critiques the pastor's perspective on marriage, particularly the gendered and stereotypical views that men don't care about weddings and women's bodies belong to their husbands. Tim argues that this mentality wreaks havoc on people, especially women, and promotes unhealthy dynamics in marriages. He also discusses the damaging effects of purity culture and the lack of comprehensive sex education in evangelicalism. Tim concludes by urging for a more mutual and respectful approach to marriage. Takeaways Gendered and stereotypical views in marriage advice can be harmful and promote unhealthy dynamics. Purity culture teachings can lead to unsatisfactory sex lives and unhealthy marriages. Comprehensive sex education and open communication are essential for a healthy and mutual marriage. Mutuality and respect should be prioritized in marriages, rather than rigid gender roles. Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim Whitaker interviews Reverend Susan Langner, who was the subject of a YouTube video where a young man confronts her for being a female LGBTQ affirming pastor. They discuss the incident, the challenges of being a woman in ministry, and their different experiences with the Bible. Susan shares her upbringing in a progressive church and the importance of questioning and open-mindedness. They also explore the cultural context of biblical stories and the need for deeper understanding. The conversation highlights the tension between fundamentalist interpretations and more nuanced approaches to faith. In this conversation, Tim and Susan discuss the challenges of interpreting scripture accurately and the cultural assumptions and nuances that can be missed. They explore the impact of fundamentalism and the need for good faith dialogue. They also touch on the experiences of women in ministry and the misogyny and sexism they face. The conversation delves into the themes of deconstruction, the reconciling of conflicting beliefs, and the importance of creating inclusive spaces. They also discuss the power of music in worship and the need for more theologically rich and inclusive songs. Takeaways The incident of the YouTube video highlights the challenges faced by women in ministry and the backlash they can receive from more conservative Christians. Susan's upbringing in a progressive church allowed her to question and explore different interpretations of the Bible, leading to a more nuanced understanding of faith. Understanding the cultural context of biblical stories is crucial for a deeper interpretation and can challenge traditional understandings. The tension between fundamentalist interpretations and more open-minded approaches to faith is an ongoing struggle in many religious communities. Interpreting scripture accurately requires an understanding of cultural assumptions and nuances. Fundamentalism often prioritizes owning and destroying opposing arguments rather than engaging in good faith dialogue. Women in ministry frequently face misogyny and sexism, but there are supportive congregations as well. Deconstruction involves questioning and reevaluating beliefs, which can be a painful but liberating process. Creating inclusive spaces and worship experiences is essential for embracing diversity and fostering a sense of belonging. Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim and April discuss negative reviews Tim has received for his podcast and delve into the topic of prophecy. They also analyze a controversial statement made by pastor Josh Howerton about women's roles on their wedding night. The conversation highlights the unrealistic expectations and harmful stereotypes perpetuated by purity culture and the need for open and honest discussions about sex and relationships. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the harmful rhetoric and misinformation spread by Christian nationalists. They also delve into the controversy surrounding President Joe Biden's recognition of the Trans Day of Visibility on Easter Sunday, which sparked outrage among Christian nationalists. The conversation exposes the hypocrisy and disingenuousness of these individuals, who claim to be defending Christianity while promoting hate and discrimination. The hosts emphasize the need for critical thinking and a more compassionate approach to faith. Takeaways The statement made by pastor Josh Howerton about women's roles on their wedding night perpetuates harmful stereotypes and unrealistic expectations. Purity culture can create unrealistic expectations and hinder healthy discussions about sex and relationships. Open and honest conversations about sex and relationships are necessary to challenge harmful beliefs and promote healthy attitudes. Harmful rhetoric and misinformation perpetuated by Christian nationalists can have damaging effects on individuals and communities. The controversy surrounding President Joe Biden's recognition of the Trans Day of Visibility on Easter Sunday highlights the intolerance and discrimination of Christian nationalists. Christian nationalists often prioritize their own interests and beliefs over the well-being and rights of marginalized groups. A more compassionate and critical approach to faith is needed to counteract the harmful influence of Christian nationalism. Follow April Ajoy on Instagram Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices