Living in the Pain Cave - Kaylee Frederick (Part II)

About the Guest Kaylee Frederick is a 21-year-old elite ultra-endurance athlete from Pennsylvania, currently studying biology and secondary education at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (with a minor in chemistry, an ESL certification, and a STEM endorsement) while working four part-time jobs including forklift operator, assistant manager at a frozen custard shop, CrossFit coach, and tutor. At 18 she became the youngest person ever to finish the Badwater 135. She recently won the Eastern States 100 outright — first woman ever, first to break 24 hours, finishing 90+ minutes ahead of second place. She finished 12th female in the world at the 24-Hour World Championship in France. She trains with coach Eric Kosik. She ran a five-mile warmup before this interview at 4 AM New Zealand time. What's Covered in Part 2 The Origin Story — 7 to Badwater in Ten Years The Training Evolution — Learning What Training Actually Is Coming Up as a Teen in an Adult Sport 24-Hour World Championship — I Walk Now So I Don't Have to Walk Later The Achilles Pop Running for Her Dad — And Then For Herself Her Mom — AT 2024, 99 Days What's Next — Black Forest and Javelina Hiking Hack — Toe Socks Off the Beaten Path — The Line by Billy Yang Pay It Forward — Eastern States Trail Endurance Alliance/Association Links & Resources Kaylee Frederick — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frederick.kaylee The Line — Billy Yang documentary on Badwater 135: https://www.youtube.com/@billyyang Eastern States Trail Endurance Alliance/Association: https://www.easternstates100.com Mount Coast T1 trail shoes — Kaylee's race shoe of choice. Recently also testing the lighter, more responsive M1. Eric Kosik — Kaylee's coach since January 2024. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Kaylee Frederick is a 21-year-old elite ultra-endurance athlete from Pennsylvania, currently studying biology and secondary education at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (with a minor in chemistry, an ESL certification, and a STEM endorsement) while working four part-time jobs including forklift operator, assistant manager at a frozen custard shop, CrossFit coach, and tutor. At 18 she became the youngest person ever to finish the Badwater 135. She recently won the Eastern States 100 outright — first woman ever, first to break 24 hours, finishing 90+ minutes ahead of second place. She finished 12th female in the world at the 24-Hour World Championship in France. She trains with coach Eric Kosik. She ran a five-mile warmup before this interview at 4 AM New Zealand time. Her mom hiked the Appalachian Trail in 99 days. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — (Expired) Trailblazer's Toolkit — Mount Coast T1 Trail Shoes The Hiking Poll — Score: 27 Badwater 135 — First Time, Age 18 Heat Training in Pennsylvania Eastern States 100 — Finding Out She Was Leading at Mile 63 The Pain Cave — Mile 93, Age 16 Links & Resources Kaylee Frederick — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frederick.kaylee The Line — Billy Yang documentary on Badwater 135: https://www.youtube.com/@billyyang Eastern States Trail Endurance Alliance/Association: https://www.easternstates100.com Mount Coast T1 trail shoes — Kaylee's race shoe of choice. Recently also testing the lighter, more responsive M1. Eric Kosik — Kaylee's coach since January 2024. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hiker Trash Radio | Trail Correspondent Series · 2026 Jared "Fisherman" Lampal | CDT Post-Hike Interview Mexico to Canada — The Full Debrief Jared "Fisherman" Lampal set out from the southern terminus of the Continental Divide Trail on April 20th with a desk job on hold, a solar-powered Garmin watch, and a tattoo with two empty triangles on his arm. 141 days later, he touched the northern terminus monument at Waterton Lake in the pouring rain, surrounded by his finish-line crew, and holding a room-temperature IPA destined for a shoey. In this final episode of the 2026 CDT Trail Correspondent Series, Doc and Fisherman do the full debrief: every open loop, every answered question, and the final scorecard on one of the most documented CDT thru-hikes in HTR history. In this episode: The finish: Goat Haunt, Waterton Lake, pouring rain, and a shoey courtesy of an Australian named Hitch Master How Jared's parents ended up at the Canadian border — and why Sunny was not there No grizzlies — but a black bear in a Walmart parking lot in Steamboat Springs, Colorado Montana: Glacier vs. the Wind Rivers, the Beaverhead Range, and a lot of sagebrush The Hiker Trash moment Doc has been waiting two episodes for: a Goose concert near Missoula, secured entirely via digital panhandling in a Facebook fan group The JB Savreaux crossover that almost happened — and the yo-yo CDT skier who actually did cross paths Final stats: 141 days, ~2,850 miles, 11 zeroes, 5 states, 3 concerts, 4 fourteeners, 0 rodeos The five-state difficulty ranking — and why Jared still thinks the CDT is harder than the AT What the CDT taught him that the AT couldn't: water, weather, and respect Sunny's A+ resupply performance, homemade fudgy brownies, and why Jackrabbit always perked up when a box was coming The first meal back: not dim sum, not EB's burgers — it was a lasagna at Filomena in DC Post-trail depression, the inbox with thousands of unread emails, and the tactical beard shave plan The CDT tattoo triangle: appointment booked for this weekend PCT urgency level: low — "a life goal, not a today goal" Advice for anyone thinking about the CDT in 2027: do it, start in the bubble, and don't let the internet scare you off Mentioned in this episode: Goat Haunt, Glacier National Park (final campsite before the monument) Waterton Lake / Waterton, Alberta (northern terminus) Banff, Alberta (where Jared's parents were) Steamboat Springs, Colorado (black bear, Walmart parking lot) James Peak, Colorado (hardest day of the trail — already recapped in Check-In #2, referenced here) Bob Marshall Wilderness, Montana (where the lasagna craving hit) Glacier National Park (up there with the Wind Rivers as a favorite section) Beaverhead Range, Idaho-Montana border Rogers Pass, Montana (jump-off point for Missoula) Missoula, Montana (Goose concert) Filomena restaurant, Washington, DC (the celebration lasagna) EB's Burgers, Washington, DC (still on the list) Goose (jam band; Jared has seen them approximately 30 times) "Hitch Master" (Australian Far Out commenter, alleged originator of the CDT shoey tradition) Jackrabbit (trail companion for more than two-thirds of the trail) CB, Snowbird, Arson, Ty, Tie-Dye (finish-line crew) Dana "Sniper" Wolf (HTR AT yo-yo correspondent, northbound complete, southbound in progress) JB Savreaux (HTR SOBO CDT correspondent — crossover did not happen) Gannett Peak, Wyoming (still unchecked; dedicated trip planned with CDT friends) Far Out app Capital Bikeshare (DC) NH 48 / US High Points (ongoing completionist side projects) Final CDT Scorecard: April 20 – September 7, 2026 141 days / 11 zeroes / 130 hiking days ~2,850 miles (official route ~3,040; alternates shortened it) 5 states: New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho (border), Montana 4 fourteeners: San Luis, Elbert, Grays, Torreys 3 concerts: Elks Lodge metal show (Grants, NM) · Denver · Goose (Missoula, MT) 1 black bear (Walmart, Steamboat Springs) 0 grizzlies 62.1 miles in 23 hours (Great Basin Challenge) 0 rodeos Sponsors: Far Out · Garage Grown Gear · Hilltop Packs · Jolly Gear · Off the Trail Recreation · Six Moon Designs · Triple Crown Coffee · Vaer Watches Follow Jared: Instagram @jl_onthe_trail Connect with HTR: Facebook · YouTube · Instagram · TikTok · [email protected] · BLEAV Network Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Kaylee Frederick is a 21-year-old elite ultra-endurance athlete from Pennsylvania, currently studying biology and secondary education at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (with a minor in chemistry, an ESL certification, and a STEM endorsement) while working four part-time jobs including forklift operator, assistant manager at a frozen custard shop, CrossFit coach, and tutor. At 18 she became the youngest person ever to finish the Badwater 135. She recently won the Eastern States 100 outright — first woman ever, first to break 24 hours, finishing 90+ minutes ahead of second place. She finished 12th female in the world at the 24-Hour World Championship in France. She trains with coach Eric Kosik. She ran a five-mile warmup before this interview at 4 AM New Zealand time. Her mom hiked the Appalachian Trail in 99 days. Her trail name is Thunder Butt. Episode Highlights Thunder Butt Badwater at 18 — On Cloud Nine Eastern States 100 — First Overall, First Under 24 Hours The Pain Cave — Mile 93, Age 16 24-Hour World Championship — Walking on Purpose Running for Her Dad — and Then Not The Youngest at the Finish Line Links & Resources Kaylee Frederick — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frederick.kaylee The Line — Billy Yang documentary on Badwater 135: https://www.youtube.com/@billyyang Eastern States Trail Endurance Alliance/Association: https://www.easternstates100.com Mount Coast T1 trail shoes — Kaylee's race shoe of choice. Recently also testing the lighter, more responsive M1. Eric Kosik — Kaylee's coach since January 2024. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Kaylee drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

For four episodes, this series followed people who look at a map and see a line that isn't there: across deserts, mountains, and cities. We saved this maker for last, because her story holds the final lesson. We first met Renee Patrick, trail name She-Ra, in Episode One, at the height of her craft: the longtime coordinator of the Oregon Desert Trail, a professional route maker who thought about the difference between a trail and a route more deeply than almost anyone. She was planning the hardest routes of her life. The next time we spoke, everything had changed. This finale tells her full arc: the architect at her peak, a life-altering diagnosis that brought her forward motion to a screeching stop, and the reinvention that followed. Because Renee is a thru-hiker, and a thru-hiker knows how to cover an impossible distance: incremental progress, one step at a time. The route maker who built some of the most remote, difficult trails in the country now wants to build the opposite: accessible routes, Camino-style trails, lines that the most people can walk. It's the perfect ending to a series about lines that never stop changing. Two episodes ago, in the city, we met the makers who bring the wilderness home. Renee, from the far end of the maker's world, arrives at the same truth: the best thing a route can do is include people. She's living proof that a maker's greatest line might be the one that lets the most people walk it. This episode is shared with Renee's blessing, and includes candid discussion of serious illness. It is, at its heart, a tribute to a route maker, and to the oldest thru-hiker wisdom there is: one step at a time, one day at a time. You can follow Renee's own writing at shera-hikes.com. If the themes in this episode resonate personally, please know that support is available. Featured route: Oregon Desert Trail (with the American Perimeter Trail and Great Western Loop referenced) Featured maker: Renee "She-Ra" Patrick (with Rue McKenrick and Andrew Skurka) This is the final episode of The Route Makers. A bonus episode — on the newest big trail in America — follows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. What's Covered in Part 2 The Trail's Political Situation The Most Beautiful Sections Why This Was His Last Thru-Hike Andrew Skurka and Doing the Research There's No Suck to Be Embraced Why the Alaska Long Trail Hiking Hack — Have Fun Off the Beaten Path — Tooth and Claw Pay It Forward — Alaska Trails Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. What's Covered in Part 1 Trail Name — Rafiki Trailblazer's Toolkit — A Good Puffy The Hiking Poll — Score: 33 How He Found Thru-Hiking The Trail — Overview Bears vs. Rivers Gear — I Like to Tinker Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Part 2 drops in 10 minutes. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guest Bradford "Rafiki" Bartels is a Marine Corps veteran, backcountry guide, and the first person to thru-hike the Alaska Long Trail — a roughly 500-mile route from Seward to Fairbanks, currently under development by Alaska Trails. Born in Soldotna, Alaska, he grew up bouncing around the East Coast and served at 29 Palms before finding his way to the outdoors through volunteer work and a friend's advice to try trail runners instead of boots. He has done an AT section hike, explored the Pacific Northwest Scenic Trail, and worked as a backpacking guide on the West Coast. He is 32, based in Massachusetts, and planning to retire from thru-hiking in favor of getting 12 to 16 dogs. Episode Highlights Trail Name — Mandrill, Actually It's Not the Bears. It's the Rivers. 30 Percent Road Walks and Why That's Fine Seth Holden and Homemade Bear Armor The Political Opposition — And Why He Called Them First There's No Suck to Be Embraced Why the Alaska Long Trail Links & Resources Alaska Trails (trail organization): https://www.alaska.org/trails Alaska Long Trail — Information: https://www.alaskalongtrail.org Wes Larson — Bear biologist making bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's primary recommendation for anyone heading into Alaska bear country. Tooth and Claw Podcast — Bear safety and wildlife content. Rafiki's top media recommendation for pre-trail preparation on the Alaska Long Trail. Andrew Skurka — The reference for Alaska backcountry trip planning. Rafiki studied his routes and approach extensively in preparation. Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. The full interview with Rafiki drops Wednesday in two parts. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In Dinosaur National Monument, Kevin Koski once scaled a thirty-foot sandstone cliff because his own map told him there was a way up. There wasn't — not a safe one. He survived it, and then he did the thing that separates a person who walks routes from a person who makes them: he took it off his map, so nobody else would follow him into it. Because a route doesn't end when the maker finishes walking it. That's when the real work starts — the years of correcting, erasing, second-guessing, and handing off. A trail is not a monument you carve once and leave standing. It's a living thing that keeps changing after its maker is gone. Rue McKenrick redraws the American Perimeter Trail every quarter and structured its nonprofit so the board can fire him — "we all own this," he says, "I just get to be the one that talks about it until I croak." Kevin "The Animal" Koski watched two strangers find a better line on his Four Corners Loop and changed his own map to match theirs. Donovan "Iceman" Rice released the Great Colorado Route to the public before he'd even proven it, calling route-making "just stitching together things that other people have done." And as this episode airs, Rice is more than 50 days into that route, deep in the high country, finding out whether the gift he gave holds up. This is the episode about letting go: the community that holds the pen, the fear of sending someone into real country on your word, and the truth every maker in this series has had to accept — that the line was never really theirs to keep. Featured routes: Great Colorado Route · Four Corners Loop · American Perimeter Trail · the "Fourth Crown Route" (Mexico–Canada) · Great Western Loop Featured makers: Kevin "The Animal" Koski · Donovan "Iceman" Rice · Rue McKenrick · Wesley "Megaman" Tils ·Andrew Skurka Next time — the series finale of The Route Makers: a maker we met in the very first episode returns to teach the last thing a route can teach, when everything changes at once. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

About the Guests Fab (from Berlin, Germany) and Fitch (from the UK) met in Australia a year ago on a group hike at Pages Pinnacle, Gold Coast — a Facebook meetup they both almost didn't attend. They are currently thru-hiking the HexaTrek, France's Grand Traverse: roughly 3,000 kilometers across the entire country, from Wissembourg to Hendaye at the Atlantic Coast. They are doing it with Billie — Fab's eight-year-old Australian kelpie cross cattle dog — on their first thru-hike as a couple. They are in Stage 4, about 1,500 kilometers in, and in the process of buying a 200-year-old farmhouse in Brittany. They post on Instagram as @FabandFitch. What's Covered in Part 2 How the Relationship Grew Fitch's Origin — Leap Before You Look Fab's Origin — A Park in Hamburg How Their Two Relationships With the Road Fit Together The Brittany Training Hike — GR 380 Would You Do It Again — Honest Answer What's Next — The Farmhouse Hiking Hacks — Two for One Off the Beaten Path — Dust on My Shoes Pay It Forward — The Sugi Project Links & Resources Fab and Fitch — Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fabandfitch HexaTrek — Official Website: https://www.hexatrek.com Dust on My Shoes — Peter Pinney (1952). Fitch's media recommendation — a minimalist traveler's journey from Yugoslavia to Zanzibar. The Sugi Project — Pocket Forests: https://www.thesugiproject.com Connect with Hiker Trash Radio Email: mailto:[email protected] Social: Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok — search Hiker Trash Radio. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts — it takes 60 seconds and makes a real difference. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.