The Right’s DEI, the Internet’s Pope, and a Plantation in Flames

As the Fourth of July approaches, Esau and Tish Harrison Warren reflect on what patriotism means today, especially for Christians who feel caught between critique and love of country. Then, Tish introduces the idea of “big church privilege,” and explores what’s gained and lost in the shift from large, well-resourced congregations to smaller, more intimate communities. Finally, they break down Peter Thiel’s recent comments about stagnation, progress, and humanity’s future. What happens when tech leaders try to achieve perfection without God?   0:00 - Theme Song   0:58 - 4th of July   12:16 - Small Church Privilege   26:08 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:35 - Peter Tiel’s Eschatology   43:38 - End Credits

Marine biologist and author Rachel Jordan joins Esau McCaulley in studio to talk about her new book If the Ocean Has a Soul. They dive into the deep waters of science and theology, discussing coral reefs, climate change, and why the ocean might be one of the most overlooked witnesses to God's glory. Rachel shares how a tenth-grade biology class changed her life, how she navigates faith in scientific spaces (and vice versa), and what the church often misses about the natural world. Plus: jellyfish football teams, Titanic conspiracies, and the surprising spirituality of sea creatures.   0:00 - Theme Song   0:52 - Low-Stakes Conspiracy Theory   6:07 - Aquatic Sports Mascots   17:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   18:35 - Scientists and Faith   26:12 - The Ocean and God’s Glory   32:35 - Can Fish Talk?   46:25 - End Credits   If the Ocean Has a Soul: A Marine Biologist’s Pursuit of Truth through Deep Waters of Faith and Science by Rachel G. Jordan: https://a.co/d/f0hLtQZ

Pastor and author Sharon Hodde Miller joins Esau McCaulley for a surprising conversation about the live-action Lilo & Stitch and how a children’s film quietly captures the realities of single motherhood, economic pressure, and communal grace. Then, Esau and Sharon talk about the challenges of pastoring in a polarizing time and how their online persona compares to their pastoral persona. Also, we have a Disney movie draft and a winner is declared.   0:00 - Theme Song   1:25 - Disney Movie Draft   13:40 - Lilo and Stitch   15:48 - Why Does Sharon Prefer the Remake?   22:42 - Single Motherhood   25:03 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:10 - Being a Pastor with a Platform   40:45 - Free of Me   50:36 - End Credits   Free of Me: Why Life is Better When It’s Not About You by Sharon Hodde Miller: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801075238?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_R7GWYC5AW573Y1AZXT64&bestFormat=true

It’s officially summer, and things are heating up. Esau is joined by Justin Giboney and producer Mike to swap summer playlists, celebrate Kirk Franklin’s unexpected honor at the BET Awards, talk about what kids should do during the summer, and unpack the recent protests in Los Angeles following aggressive ICE raids. What does faithful protest look like? How do Christians respond when political theater overshadows human dignity? And can you really call it a cookout without Earth, Wind & Fire?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:17 - Cookout Playlist Mount Rushmore   5:35 - BET Music Awards and Kirk Franklin   11:55 - Kid Rock   18:36 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:46 - Summer Protests   38:30 - Coco Gauff and Black Accomplishment   46:12 - End Credits

NBA Finals. Trump’s sledgehammer policies. A Bible debate over sex. Esau, Justin Giboney, and Producer Mike truly tackle it all this week. First, why do small markets (and small churches) keep getting overlooked? Then, what’s really driving the fight over international students on U.S. campuses? Also, a popular pastor claims the Bible does not say sex before marriage is wrong, but we aren't convinced. Finally, sports heartbreak, Taylor Swift, and Mike (kind of) makes his co-host debut.   1:04 - NBA Finals and Small Markets/Churches 9:22 - The Bible Sexual Immorality Debate 25:11 - Mike's Corner: International Students on Campus and Trump 46:48 - Taylor Swift  

Elite universities are trying something new, or maybe not so new. To attract more conservative faculty, they’re adopting diversity strategies once used to support marginalized communities. So now that DEI is working for the right, is it still “woke”? Plus, fake Pope quotes are everywhere. Why is everyone trying to make the new Pope say what they want to hear? And in other news: a plantation burns, prom has officially lost its mind, and Producer Mike is in need of some friends.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:11 - Big Budget Proms   14:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   15:40 - Fake Pope Quotes   25:18 - DEI for Conservatives   39:51 - The Plantation Fire   47:12 - End Credits

Author and mother of six, Katie Blackburn joins Esau for a conversation around single parenting, disability, and faith. Katie shares her experience raising a son with severe autism, the grief and grace that come with it, and how the church has responded, sometimes with welcome, other times with unintentional exclusion. Together, they explore why single parents and families affected by disability often feel unseen in church spaces, and what communities can do to change that. They also talk about Katie’s new children’s book The Very Best Baseball Game, inspired by a local disability league, and how stories can help us better understand diversity, empathy, and belonging. 0:00 - Show Starts   2:15 - Mount Rushmore of Family Films   7:55 - Single Motherhood   10:42 - Writing as Therapy   18:09 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:21 - Church with Single People   24:28 - The Very Best Baseball Game   33:20 - What Can Churches Do for Disabled Children?   42:38 - End Credits  

Why does everything feel like a reboot? In this episode, Esau is joined by producer Mike and historian Malcolm Foley for a wide-ranging conversation on the current state of American pop culture. From promising films like Sinners and Thunderbolts to the creative fatigue behind endless reboots and auto-tuned algorithms, they explore whether we're stuck in a cycle of stagnation and cynicism, and why Beyoncé’s country album might provide a glimmer of hope for the future of the pop culture industry.   0:00 - Show Starts   0:45 - Theme Song   2:55 - Uninformed Takes on Ryan Coogler’s Sinners   10:16 - Movies with Anit-Christian Elements?   18:16 - Worst Pop Culture Era   26:15 - How in-Person Classes Change Things   33:55 - Revitalization of Pop Culture   47:15 - End Credits

Everyone needs a life coach sometimes and Esau is here to play the role. In today's episode, he answers the internet's questions about friendship, marriage, calling, AI, church, and, yes, the ethics of eating your kid’s leftovers. Joined by Producer Mike and Holy Post Community Coordinator Emerson, the trio tackles everything from existential crises to the proper number of slices you’re allowed to take from a pie. Whether you’re wondering how to make friends as a tired parent or if your marriage is weird because you don’t fight, Esau’s got takes, and lots of them.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:10 - Are Leftovers Fair Game?   5:32 - A.I. and Writing Careers   9:50 - Adult Friendships   17:35 - A Marriage with No Fights?   21:45 - Sponsor - Northern Seminary - Through Taste of Northern, you can experience the richness of a theological education for free, with leading New Testament scholars. Visit https://www.seminary.edu/taste to join a class today!   23:08 - Unfulfilling Job   35:18 - Is four “a few?”   37:45 - Church Disappointment   47:00 - End Credits

When most people think of the Apostle Paul, they picture a guy who cares more about doctrine and judgment than love. But what if I told you that the guy who wrote the most famous chapter on love in the Bible actually built his whole theology around it? Esau McCaulley talks with New Testament scholar Nijay Gupta about his new book The Affections of Christ and why Paul might be the Bible’s most misunderstood writer. They explore what Paul really says about love, how emotion theory helps us read the Bible better, and why recovering Paul’s tender side could help the church in a time of outrage, division, and burnout. Also, whatever happened to Ned Flanders?   0:00 - Theme Song   2:03 - Last Time Your Church Made You Feel Loved   7:10 - Paul and Love?   13:50 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   14:50 - Sponsor - Fabric by Gerber Life - Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at https://www.meetfabric.com/ESAU   17:00 - The Bible’s Emotional!   27:50 - Covenant vs. Court   40:04 - Was He Rehabilitating Paul’s Image?   49:32 - End Credits   The Affections of Christ Jesus: Love at the Heart of Paul’s Theology by NIjay Gupta: https://a.co/d/82LsTS0   Paul and the Language of Faith by Nijay Gupta: https://a.co/d/bROX4lx   My Hill to Die On - In-N-Out Burger is Overrated: https://www.patreon.com/posts/my-hill-to-die-n-125861271