How Saturn Is Tokenizing Michael Saylor's 11.5% STRC Bitcoin Yield for DeFi | DeFi Frontier

Vivek Raman is Etherealize CoFounder and CEO while Michael McGuiness is an Etherealize Researcher and author of their recent report "Ethereum and The Era of Productive Money."Many have viewed ETH as a technology bet. Etherealize just published a report arguing it's something far more important, better money than BTC and gold, and the first monetary asset in history that actually compounds.In this episode, they break down their $250,000 ETH thesis and why institutions that understand pristine collateral are quietly becoming the biggest ETH bulls.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🟠 APYX | Enhanced digital credit yield, onchain🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro3:06 - Vivek and Michael’s background on Wall Street5:18 - Core thesis: ETH is better money than BTC or gold10:03 - What is productive money?12:15 - Is Wall Street buying the story of ETH as productive money?16:02 - The institutional crypto bull market18:08 - Three demand drivers for ETH: gas, collateral, and staking20:53 - Why ETH wasn’t reaching its full potential until recently25:20 - What needed to happen in order for ETH to reprice?30:47 - Distribution channels: ETFs, Schwab, Tom Lee32:41 - Bitcoin's security budget problem33:33 - Ethereum’s censorship resistance, decentralization, and predictability39:54 - The path to $250,000 ETH price44:37 - Bitcoin's coordination problem vs Ethereum's shipping velocity46:02 - The Ethereum roadmap and AI accelerating scaling expectations51:43 - Principal risks to the $250k ETH thesis55:37 - What institutions still don’t understand about Ethereum58:19 - What’s Etherealize been working on?58:55 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Etherealize website: https://www.etherealize.com/► Productive Money report: https://www.productivemoney.org/► Etherealize on X: https://x.com/etherealize_io► Vivek Raman on X: https://x.com/VivekVentures► Michael McGuiness on X: https://x.com/mikemcg0------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic are long term holders of ETH.

Sam MacPherson is the CoFounder and CEO of Phoenix Labs, the core team behind Spark.Some DeFi protocols are burning through reserves, while others wait for the bull market to save them. Spark is doing neither.In a new episode of our Revenue Meta series, Sam breaks down the business behind Spark and how it's generating $27.8M in projected annual revenue (up from $23M since recording) across four business channels. We discuss what's being done with the $9.6M protocol surplus to better return value to SPK holders through programmatic buybacks and growth initiatives. We also cover the Spark Liquidity Layer managing over $2.3 billion in DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi. Sam has the latest on their upcoming CeDeFi prime brokerage called Spark Prime and what else is in store to get Spark back to earning a projected $80M in annual revenue.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🟠 APYX | Enhanced digital credit yield, onchain🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:10 - Spark x Sky relationship4:03 - Spark products: Spark Savings, Spark Liquidity Layer, SparkLend9:22 - Team and operations behind Spark10:57 - How does Spark make money?13:42 - Spark’s revenue: $23M net returns, $13.6M opex, $9.6M surplus20:06 - How Spark DAO uses protocol surplus to return value to SPK holders22:14 - Spark DAO treasury and SPK buybacks26:56 - Who are Spark’s customers?32:57 - Which Spark product is driving more revenue?35:23 - Does Sky growth create tailwinds for Spark?38:44 - Is Aave’s reputation hit an opportunity for Spark and Sky?41:37 - Growth drivers for Spark next44:03 - Spark Prime, a CeDeFi prime brokerage46:22 - Sam’s growth goals for 202647:53 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Spark website: https://spark.fi/► Spark Data Hub: https://data.spark.fi/► Spark Financials: https://data.spark.fi/financials► Spark on X: https://x.com/sparkdotfi► Sam MacPherson on X: https://x.com/hexonaut------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Ellis Osborn and Kevin Li are CoFounders of Saturn.This is the first episode in a new series by The Edge Podcast covering emerging DeFi builders. Ellis and Kevin break down how Saturn tokenizes STRC via two onchain assets, USDat and sUSDat. Michael Saylor and his team at Strategy built STRC to pay an 11.5% yield backed by Bitcoin. Saturn is building the DeFi layer on top of this STRC yield.We learn how Saturn's tokenized yield unlocks global access to STRC, higher leverage through the likes of Morpho, yield trading on Pendle, and risk tranching soon through Strata. They share more on why Saylor himself is so excited for what Saturn is working on to distribute STRC yield on Ethereum. We cover why digital credit might be superior to private credit, and how STRC could become "the risk-free rate of onchain finance."------💎 THIS EPISODE'S SPONSORS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:21 - Saturn CoFounders background4:47 - Why build Saturn?6:57 - Why Michael Saylor’s excited for STRC in DeFi10:14 - Three major DeFi use cases for Saturn: looping, Pendle, and tranching14:59 - How does Saturn distribute STRC yield onchain?15:58 - Where does STRC yield come from?17:06 - Why 2-token design with USDat vs sUSDat18:48 - Is USDat a stablecoin?20:56 - How STRC vs USDat peg works24:29 - The opportunity for STRC to grow alongside $1M BTC28:37 - Demand for STRC digital credit will eat into fixed income31:50 - DeFi is starving for a yield like STRC35:43 - Can STRC become the risk-free rate onchain?37:20 - Saturn means 24/7 trading of STRC onchain39:16 - The impact of perps for STRC41:46 - How far could STRC reasonably drop below $100?43:50 - What’s live now on Saturn?45:23 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Saturn website: https://saturn.credit/► Saturn on X: https://x.com/saturn_credit► Ellis Osborn on X: https://x.com/ellisp_osborn► Kevin Li on X: https://x.com/kevinlhr88► Nomatic's write-up on STRC: https://www.the-edge.xyz/p/strc-the-birth-of-bitcoin-credit------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic both have BTC exposure and were angels in Saturn's pre-seed. DeFi Dad and Nomatic do not hold STRC or MSTR.sUSDat is only available to eligible participants outside the United States only.sUSDat holders are currently earning 11.5%+ APY. This is not an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any security in any jurisdiction where prohibited, including to U.S. persons.Nothing in this podcast constitutes investment advice. Yield is not guaranteed and may vary."Backed by Bitcoin" refers to collateral structure only and does not imply capital protection or risk elimination.Saturn's Terms and Conditions https://saturn.credit/legal/terms-conditions

Chaitanya Jain (CJ) works on the Bitcoin team at Strategy.Most people know Strategy for its outspoken BTC bull Founder Michael Saylor and second, for buying billions in BTC, but more of you ought to learn about the financial instruments they've engineered, backed by BTC as digital capital that appreciates over time.In this episode, CJ breaks down how Strategy’s flagship STRC works, a perpetual preferred stock with a stable $100 price and 11.5% annual yield paid monthly in tax-deferred cash dividends. We dive into the ambitious plans at Strategy to target a $300 trillion fixed income market with STRC and how that could impact the price of BTC long term. We also dive into how DeFi teams are already tokenizing STRC to bring it onchain.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:46 - CJ’s background and role at Strategy7:23 - What Strategy actually does with Bitcoin10:40 - Why Strategy chose to offer perpetual preferred equity14:58 - Which Strategy instrument is most senior?16:44 - How AI helped design Strategy instruments19:18 - What is STRC? Stable price, 11.5% yield, monthly dividends23:23 - Where does STRC yield actually come from?26:14 - ATM program for raising capital to buy more BTC29:21 - How does STRC enable Strategy to accumulate BTC in the bear36:49 - STRC could serve $300T fixed income market + the impact on BTC41:48 - Difference between MSTR vs STRC investors44:36 - Who is buying STRC right now?47:04 - Teams tokenizing STRC for DeFi51:41 - What are the real risks for STRC?55:00 - Would Strategy ever sell BTC?57:50 - Why STRC is Strategy’s “iPhone moment”1:01:55 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Strategy website: https://strategy.com/► Strategy on X: https://x.com/strategy► CJ on X: https://x.com/cj_bitcoin► Nomatic's write-up on STRC: https://www.the-edge.xyz/p/strc-the-birth-of-bitcoin-credit------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad and Nomatic both have BTC exposure.

Matthew Fisher is CEO of Katana.Many L2s have launched, hoping the apps show up. Katana is taking a different approach, building apps itself and designing the economic engine from day one to make this all possible.In this episode, Matthew breaks down how vaultbridge assets like vbETH and vbUSDT redirect real yield from Ethereum Mainnet to active DeFi participants on Katana, why they acquired the team behind IDEX to launch Katana Perps, and their roadmap to onboard major liquidity from CEXs like OKX and fintechs like Revolut who can route liquidity through Katana for yield.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🏦 ALTURA | Bringing the yield institutions kept, to your wallet🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:04- Matthew’s background in DeFi6:24 - Katana’s origin story10:25 - vbTokens and why yield goes to DeFi participants, not holders12:00 - How the vaultbridge actually works with Morpho on Ethereum17:38 - Vitalik’s L2 comments and Ethereum alignment21:50 - How Katana can win over users as a DeFi hub25:12 - IDEX acquisition and Katana Perps launch28:06 - 5 revenue-generating businesses for one network30:55 - Built for both retail and institutions32:51 - ve(3,3) flywheel at the network level on Katana44:35 - KAT vs vKAT vs avKAT48:08 - OKX Earn and Binance programs powered by Katana52:29 - Katana’s endgame to tap into fintech liquidity54:32 - Why Katana is strategically aligned with Polygon59:20 - What Matthew's most excited for in 6-12 months1:01:26 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Katana website: https://katana.network/► Katana on X: https://x.com/katana► Katana Perps website: https://perps.katana.network/► Katana Perps on X: https://x.com/katanaperps► Matthew on X: https://x.com/mfisher10x------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. DeFi Dad earned ~$500 of KAT in the airdrop and voluntarily staked it as avKAT in a demo edited into the pod. Katana has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not accept paid guest slots. We believe Katana has an interesting story given its use of vbAssets and ve(3,3) mechanics at the network level.

Nick Forster is CoFounder and CEO of Derive.Every year since 2021, we've said onchain options would be huge, but it's never played out, until now. Derive has captured 90-95% of onchain options volume while competitors all died or pivoted to perps. The inflection point has arrived.In this episode, Nick explains why he stayed the course building the hardest product in DeFi, how Yieldmageddon is bullish for the growth of options, and why institutional funds are now turning to onchain options for yield generation. The thesis was right. The timing was just early. And the network effects now make Derive's moat nearly impossible to replicate.------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:27 - Why Nick bet on onchain options in 20214:10 - Derive is the largest onchain options exchange5:28 - Building “the infinite payoff factory”11:59 - Why not pivot to perps when everyone else did14:00 - The inflection point: What changed in the last year16:37 - How RFQ (request for quote) works for institutional size18:04 - Yieldmageddon, the end of the basis trade and TVL deals22:19 - Vaults and structured products being built on Derive24:17 - Is there an LP pool-style product being built for Derive?25:17 - From Lyra's AMM to Derive's CLOB28:20 - What options markets are live today?29:09 - Which networks Derive supports via its appchain30:26 - HYPE options driving new growth31:36 - What if Hyperliquid launched options?35:53 - Why options markets have stronger network effects39:17 - Will Derive support RWA options markets?44:14 - Who trades on Derive?46:13 - Growth charts: From 0.15% to significant market share48:43 - Why options are countercyclical51:09 - DRV token: All value flows through the token55:08 - The story behind Synthetix’s acquisition proposal57:43 - How big can Derive grow in options trading?1:00:27 - What's next?1:02:03 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Derive website: https://derive.xyz/► Derive on X: https://x.com/derivexyz► Nick on X: https://x.com/itseneff------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Arpan Gautam is the Founder of Noon.After years at McKinsey and Goldman, Arpan was led to build institutional-grade yield products in DeFi. Noon now delivers one of the highest performing stablecoin yields (9% APY the last 30 days) while DeFi's biggest competitors sit at 4-6%.In this episode, we cover:+ How Noon's multi-strategy yield engine combines DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi to outperform competitors+ Why private credit, leverage looping, and institutional access remove the gatekeepers on high-yield products+ What institutions actually want: yield, infrastructure, and risk management+ Noon's newly launched tBTC yield vaults------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:27 - Arpan’s background3:58 - Why choose to build in DeFi7:58 - What institutions want: Yield, infrastructure, and risk management14:08 - Retail vs. institutional: Navigating the changing DeFi landscape18:05 - What is Noon? “The highest, safest stablecoin yield”23:57 - Evolving beyond self-reported transparency dashboards27:29 - Noon's multi-strategy yield engine: DeFi, CeFi, and TradFi32:53 - How Noon achieves 9%+ yields: Removing gatekeepers and accessing institutional products36:44 - Private credit exposure and why the risk is acceptable for Noon41:31 - New Noon tBTC yields and strategies44:41 - NOON token launch: transferability, staking, and LP vault50:02 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Noon website: https://noon.capital/► Noon on X: https://x.com/noon_capital► Arpan on X: https://x.com/ag_noon------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast. Noon has been a sponsor of The Edge Podcast but we do not do paid guest slots. We believe Noon has a compelling story to spotlight given their standout yield products.

Felipe Montealegre is the Founder and CIO of Theia.A liquid crypto investment fund explains why they believe the four-year token bear market is coming to an end and how they're deploying capital. Felipe explains why his team concluded 99% of crypto tokens, excluding a few SoV tokens, should be valued on discounted cash flows and how that view kept them out of certain overvalued L1s and L2s. Plus, more on positioning for what Felipe calls "the best opportunities in four years!"In this episode, we cover:+ Why the bear market is ending: reasonable valuations, tokenholder rights, and revenue growth+ Understanding Edge vs. Brier scores: why being contrarian and right beats just being right+ The real bottleneck for RWAs: the need for financially sophisticated underwriters, not more engineers------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro2:00 - Who is Theia?4:02 - AI tools accelerating research10:37 - How Felipe’s team applies mental models to investing18:46 - The 4-year token bear market and why it was necessary24:15 - Tokenholder rights: What they are and why they matter28:37 - Thoughts on Across token buyout32:08 - Signs the token bear market is ending35:23 - Do you believe in the four-year cycle?39:19 - What is MetaDAO and futarchy?49:56 - What Theia looks for in liquid token investments56:18 - "Bear markets are where you make all your money"58:12 - Making the case to invest in high integrity founders1:01:14 - Real RWAs vs. narrative RWAs1:04:40 - The real RWA bottleneck: Why we need underwriters, not engineers1:06:35 - The investment manager of the future1:11:28 - Why major VCs are pivoting away from crypto1:16:57 - Brier vs Edge: Why being contrarian and right beats being right1:21:25 - How to find edge when DeFi is full of duopolies1:26:35 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Theia and Felipe on X: https://x.com/TheiaResearch► Theia Mental Models: https://www.latticeworkofmentalmodels.com/------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Hart Lambur is the CoFounder of Across.We host a timely new discussion on the reasoning behind the first ever major token buyout in DeFi, a proposal to convert ACX tokenholders into equity shareholders of a traditional private company for Across. Hart explains how the $25M treasury would finance the buyout, and the vision for Across's future as stablecoin infrastructure where "$1 equals $1" and users pay nothing to move money across chains.In this episode, we cover:+ Why the token model isn't working: DAO governance challenges and misaligned incentives+ How the buyout works: token-to-equity conversion, and who can participate+ The new business model: Free stablecoin movement powered by intents, with issuers paying fees instead of users------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:27 - Hart’s background with Risk Labs4:46 - Big announcement: Across token buyout proposal9:13 - How the token buyout works: rolling into a private entity10:58 - History of the ACX token: Why it launched and what wasn't working14:26 - High FDV tokens and broken markets18:54 - Token governance challenges20:13 - ACX token ownership: DAO, investors, and retail breakdown24:32 - Token to equity conversion25:35 - $25M Across treasury will finance the buyout28:38 - New business: Making stablecoin movement free for users36:09 - Why DAOs struggle with B2B contracts vs private companies40:39 - How the new business works between Across and stablecoin issuers42:28 - What are intents and how they power Across's "$1 = $1" vision45:58 - Three paths to success47:30 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Across website: https://across.to/► Across proposal: https://forum.across.to/t/the-bridge-across/2097► Hart's thoughts on token buyout: https://x.com/hal2001/status/2031737518505537907?s=20► Across on X: https://x.com/AcrossProtocol► Hart on X: https://x.com/hal2001------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.

Davide Crapis is an AI Lead at the Ethereum Foundation.AI agents are already choosing which blockchains to use. Davide Crapis, AI Lead at the Ethereum Foundation, explains why Ethereum is building the infrastructure to win them over and what the internet of agents looks like in the near future.In this episode, we cover:+ Why AI agents are rational actors when choosing chains+ From experiment to infrastructure: How ERC-8004 creates the railway for agent economies+ Ethereum's most underappreciated advantage: ZK protocols for verification and privacy+ The future of agents hiring each other with onchain payments------💎 THIS EPISODE'S PARTNERS🔒 KPK | Best risk-adjusted yield through automated vaults🏙 MAINSTREET | Bringing proven TradFi yield strategies to DeFi markets🕛 NOON | The highest and safest stablecoin yield, built for the long term🌅 NEUTRL | The next generation of crypto-native yield🛡️ ACCOUNTABLE | Real-time financial verification⚔️ KATANA | Deep liquidity & real yield👻 MANTLE | Aave V3 is live on Mantle🐡 PUFFER INSTITUTIONAL | ETH staking solutions for scale⚙️ GEARBOX PROTOCOL | Onchain lending reimagined------⏱️ TIMESTAMPS0:00 - Intro1:21 - Davide’s background5:10 - AI doomers vs. reality: Separating signal from noise in AI discourse12:18 - What is the dAI team at the Ethereum Foundation?13:32 - What is an AI agent?15:42 - Which blockchain will AI agents choose? (and why Ethereum)19:14 - Would AI agents ever design their own blockchain?21:37 - The AI agent mania, from memecoins to infra25:38 - Explaining ERC-8004, agent-to-agent commerce31:03 - Identity and reputation for AI agents34:54 - Thoughts on OpenClaw mania37:55 - Top use cases for AI agents on Ethereum39:58 - Ethereum's most underappreciated advantage for AI 41:16 - What matters when agents are the primary users?46:22 - What does the internet of agents look like 5 years from now?49:27 - How AI agents will change the UI we use today52:12 - The future of AI coordination on Ethereum55:23 - Closing------🔗 GUEST LINKS► Davide's personal website: https://davidecrapis.notion.site/► Davide Crapis on X: https://x.com/davidecrapis► ERC-8004 proposal for trustless agents: https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-8004------🎙️ MORE FROM THE EDGE PODCAST AND EDGE NEWSLETTER► Newsletter: https://the-edge.xyz► Apple: https://tinyurl.com/edgepod► Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/edgepodspotify► Linktree: https://linktr.ee/edge_pod► Follow DeFi Dad: https://x.com/DeFi_Dad► Follow Nomatic: https://x.com/Nomaticcap► Learn DeFi: http://defidad.com/------DISCLAIMER: Nothing said on The Edge Podcast is a recommendation to buy or sell tokens or securities. This content is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing shared here is financial advice. Any views expressed by hosts or guests on the show are solely their opinions. Always do your own research. DeFi Dad, Nomatic, and guests may have positions in the assets or other matters discussed in this podcast.