It Was Never Just the Dishes: Mental Load, Gender Power, and the Truth About Modern Marriage with Kate Anthony on Divorce & Beyond #406

Dating again in midlife can stir up a mix of curiosity, hope, and very real hesitation. After divorce, it’s not just about meeting someone new, it’s about trusting your instincts and believing that love can feel different this time. Susan Guthrie welcomes back one of Divorce & Beyond’s most trusted and favorite guests, Bela Gandhi, for an honest, encouraging conversation about what it truly takes to move from fear to confidence when dating again in midlife. Known as America’s go-to dating coach and beloved by the Divorce & Beyond community, Bela brings warmth, optimism, and refreshingly practical wisdom to a chapter that often feels overwhelming. Together, Susan and Bela unpack why midlife dating can actually be better than ever, how to stop repeating old patterns that no longer serve you, and what smart, intentional dating looks like when you’re choosing differently and more consciously this time around. What You’ll Learn Why fear around dating after divorce is normal How those “rollercoaster butterflies” are usually a sign of anxiety, not chemistry, and how to recognize calm as a healthier sign of compatibility How dating today offers more options, visibility, and agency than ever before, especially for midlife daters Why confidence in dating comes from having a clear plan, not luck, timing, or instant sparks How slowing down and allowing connection to develop over time leads to better long-term outcomes About the Guest  Bela Gandhi is a dating/relationship expert, TEDx speaker, founder of Smart Dating AcademyÒ and has been featured on most national/local media outlets including Good Morning America, Steve Harvey, the Today Show, Kelly Clarkson, Access, ABC, NBC, Fox, and more.  Bela realized her gift for love when she was in college and started matchmaking and coaching her friends – watching them sail on to relationship bliss and marriage.  Using her own system, Bela found her own amazing husband of over 20 years, and in 2009, founded Smart Dating AcademyÒ.  Smart Dating Academy teaches singles all over the globe the Smart DatingÒ four phase system – 1) Preparing to Date, 2) Dating, 3) Exclusivity and 4) Happily Ever After.   They specialize in VIP 1:1 coaching, and with clients that have followed their system, they’ve had ‘zero divorces.’  They help singles to ‘fix their pickers’ because their coaches are deep in the weeds with clients, helping read profiles, message, and rate each date after it happens – she makes dating fun, easy and successful!   Before starting Smart Dating Academy, Bela earned dual degrees in Finance and German from the University of Illinois in Urbana/Champaign.  Bela worked in mergers and acquisitions for Arthur Andersen in Chicago for a year before joining her family's chemicals manufacturing company (called CCC), where she divided her time between Chicago and Europe helping to expand the business. When they sold the business to Fortune 500 company Akzo Nobel, she was asked to remain its leader and became Akzo Nobel Non-Stick Coating’s Global Vice President of Housewares.   While climbing the corporate ladder, she realized it was time to unveil her system to the world, and it was her best decision ever.  Bela lives in Lincoln Park with her husband Andy and 2 children, Jaden and Max, and is going to be an empty nester next year!    Connect with Bela Gandhi Website: http://smartdatingacademy.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/smartdatingacademy Podcast: https://www.smartdatingacademy.com/podcast The Midlife Dating Mindset Reset Guide Download Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Gray divorce is one of the fastest-growing divorce trends, yet it remains one of the least talked-about experiences. It is not just the end of a marriage. It is the unraveling of decades of shared life, identity, routines, and expectations. In this episode, Susan Guthrie is joined by gray divorce coach Maryjane Sweet, whom she first met when they were both featured on the Oprah Podcast in a powerful conversation about gray divorce. Maryjane appeared alongside her adult daughter, and their story stood out for its honesty, depth, and the grace with which Maryjane navigated this life-altering transition. Together, Susan and Maryjane explore what it truly takes to move through gray divorce with intention, emotional awareness, and integrity. They discuss why gray divorce can feel especially destabilizing, particularly when it arrives unexpectedly, and how the losses extend far beyond the marriage itself. The conversation dives into grief, identity shifts, nervous system overwhelm, and the invisible emotional labor women carry as they work to hold themselves and their families together during profound change. This is not a conversation about quick fixes. It is about honoring loss, building emotional safety, and discovering what gray divorce can give back on the other side. What You’ll Learn Why gray divorce is not just a legal ending, but a profound emotional and identity shift after decades of shared life Why rituals around loss, such as leaving a family home or removing wedding rings, help create closure and support healing How daily anchors like sleep, nourishment, movement, and connection are essential tools during divorce Why adult children are deeply impacted by gray divorce and how parents can model integrity, resilience, and self-compassion How focusing on how you want to feel can help guide decisions when the future feels like a black hole Why coaching support can be critical during gray divorce and how it helps women move forward without getting stuck in the past About the Guest  Maryjane is a gray divorce coach and consultant. She combines the lived experience of ending a 26-year marriage with deep professional training to help women navigate the emotional and practical complexities of gray divorce. She holds a master's in Organizational Behavior and is an !CF-certified PCC coach with over 1,500 client hours worldwide. She's trained in mindfulness and meditation through Duke University, is a certified trauma-informed yoga instructor, and has taught university courses on well-being and neuroscience-based stress regulation. With more than twenty years in leadership development and human transformation, she offers women a grounded, evidence-based pathway through midlife divorce - one that honors both the unraveling and the rising. Connect with Maryjane Sweet Website: http://maryjanesweet.com Instagram: @thegreydivorcecoach Blog Article + Free Downloadable Resource 📝 Rituals for Grief in Gray Divorce: Why Closure Matters In this companion article, Susan explores why gray divorce requires more than legal resolution. It requires emotional closure. Drawing from this conversation, she explains how intentional rituals, such as marking the end of a marriage, leaving a longtime home, or acknowledging decades of shared life, can help the nervous system process loss and support healing during profound transition. You’ll also find a simple, downloadable resource designed to help you reflect on what closure might look like for you. Read here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/blog *************************************************** Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

It was never about the dishes… It’s about mental load, invisible labor, and power inside modern marriage. To dig into why so many women feel this strain inside their marriages, Susan Guthrie is joined by Kate Anthony, a globally recognized divorce coach, feminist thought leader, and the author of The D Word: Making the Ultimate Decision About Your Marriage. Kate is also the creator and host of the top-ranked Divorce Survival Guide Podcast. Together, Susan and Kate talk candidly about how deeply ingrained expectations still shape modern relationships, often in ways people don’t recognize until the damage is done. They explore why patriarchy harms women while also isolating men, what real partnership actually looks like in practice, and how patterns like deflection, denial, and  quietly erode trust over time. The conversation also addresses the very real impact these dynamics have on women’s emotional and physical safety, and why naming them clearly can be a powerful first step toward change. What You’ll Learn How mental load becomes a proxy for deeper issues of power, responsibility, and respect How patriarchy shapes modern marriage in ways that harm women while also isolating men and fueling resentment What real partnership looks like in practice and why occasional help is not the same as shared ownership What it often means when one partner says they were “blindsided” by divorce and how invisible labor plays a role Why naming these dynamics clearly can be a critical first step toward safety, clarity, and meaningful change About the Guest Kate Anthony is a feminist thought leader, divorce coach, and author of The D Word: Making the Ultimate Decision About Your Marriage. As the host of The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast (3.5M+ downloads; globally ranked in the top 0.5%), Kate brings fierce clarity and grounded compassion to conversations about coercive control, codependency, and the complex dynamics that shape women’s relationships and choices. For well over a decade, Kate has guided women through the emotional and practical challenges of deciding whether to stay or leave their marriages, helping them rebuild self-trust, navigate high-conflict partners, and dismantle patriarchal conditioning. Her work blends feminist analysis, relational insight, and practical communication tools that empower women to make safe, self-led decisions. Kate is also developing a groundbreaking project exploring true crime as women’s survival literature, illuminating the coercive control patterns and systemic failures embedded in headline cases. Connect with Kate Anthony Website: http://kateanthony.com Instagram: @kateanthony_divorcecoach Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

For many people quietly navigating divorce season, one question lingers beneath the surface: Is this just a rough season, or is this relationship truly over? In this powerful and deeply honest episode of Divorce & Beyond, Susan Guthrie sits down with renowned psychotherapist Dr. Jenn Mann to explore how to tell the difference, and why clarity, not guilt, is often the most caring path forward. Inspired by Dr. Jenn’s widely shared insight, “Not every relationship is meant to be saved,” this conversation goes far beyond the familiar stay-or-leave debate. Together, Susan and Dr. Jenn examine how therapy can sometimes help repair a marriage and other times provide the clarity needed to trust yourself enough to let go. They discuss the emotional cost of staying too long, the deal breakers people often rationalize away, and why ending a marriage can be an act of courage and strength rather than failure. This is a compassionate, nuanced conversation for anyone questioning what comes next. What You’ll Learn in This Episode How to tell the difference between a rough season and a relationship that has truly run its course Why therapy is not always about fixing the marriage, but often about gaining clarity The deal breakers people ignore for years, including emotional unavailability and refusal to seek help Why “staying for the kids” is far more complex than it sounds and what children actually absorb How leaving a marriage can build confidence, resilience, and deeper self-trust About the Guest Dr. Jenn Mann is one of the most widely recognized psychotherapists in the country, with nearly three decades of clinical experience as a licensed Marriage, Family, and Child Therapist (LMFT). She is best known as the longtime host and therapist on VH1’s hit series Couples Therapy with Dr. Jenn and Family Therapy with Dr. Jenn, and has appeared as a trusted expert on hundreds of television programs, including The Today Show, Dr. Oz, The Wendy Williams Show, The Doctors, Steve Harvey, Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, and Jimmy Kimmel Live. Dr. Jenn is the author of multiple bestselling books, including The Relationship Fix, SuperBaby, and The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy Confident Kids, which have collectively spent weeks on national bestseller lists. She is also the co-author of the children’s book Rockin’ Babies, written with her mother, Grammy-award-winning songwriter Cynthia Weil. In addition to her television and publishing work, Dr. Jenn hosted The Dr. Jenn Show on SiriusXM for five years and has contributed award-winning writing to national parenting and family publications. She lives in Beverly Hills, California, with her partner and twin daughters. 🔗 Dr. Jenn Mann’s Book: The Relationship Fix https://amzn.to/3LtS4If 📲 Connect with Dr. Jenn Mann: Instagram: @drjennmann Website: https://doctorjenn.com/   Blog Article + Free Downloadable Resource 📝 Staying for the Kids? What Children Actually Absorb From Unhappy Marriages This companion article explores why children are deeply sensitive to emotional environments and how thoughtful decisions, whether staying or leaving, shape their long-term wellbeing. Read here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/blog   🎁 Free Download: Staying for the Kids? A Clarity Worksheet for Thoughtful Parents A supportive, non-judgmental reflection tool to help parents think through these questions without pressure or fear. Download here: https://divorcebeyond.com/stayingforthekids   You’ll find the article, the worksheet, and the full episode on the latest episode page at divorceandbeyondpod.com. Make the Most of Your Listening Experience If this episode resonated with you: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode Share this episode with someone who may need clarity, reassurance, or hope Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners Follow Divorce & Beyond 🌐 Website: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com 📸 Instagram: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Your Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a bestselling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as a featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, sharing insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her work has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of podcasts worldwide with millions of downloads, Susan brings together trusted experts and powerful lived experiences to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence and hope. Learn more at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/about   A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through divorce? Hello Divorce offers a guided online platform that combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support, helping you reduce stress, confusion, and costs. 🎧 Divorce & Beyond listeners can explore a special page here: https://hellodivorce.com/susan Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. 💄 Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when using the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to feel your best, inside and out. 🔗 https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury Opportunities for Experts and Fellow Podcasters Interested in partnering with Divorce & Beyond or appearing as a guest? Learn more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities Disclaimer The commentary and opinions expressed on this podcast are for informational and educational purposes only and do not constitute legal advice. You should consult an attorney licensed in your state regarding any specific legal issue.

You signed the divorce agreement. You thought it was over. But for many people, the real problems begin after the ink dries, when they discover that what they negotiated is not actually enforceable. In this essential episode of Divorce & Beyond, Susan Guthrie is joined by Kelly Lise Murray, a nationally recognized legal scholar whose work focuses on what happens when divorce settlements fall apart in real life, particularly in cases involving homes, mortgages, retirement assets, and complex property divisions. This conversation is especially important during divorce season, when many listeners are early in the process and assuming that reaching agreement automatically means protection. It does not. What You’ll Learn Why a signed divorce agreement does not guarantee you will receive what you were promised How enforcement failures leave people owed money or assets they never receive Why homes and retirement accounts are the highest-risk areas in divorce settlements How missing deadlines and contingencies quietly undermine agreements The questions you should ask your lawyer before signing anything About the Guest Prof. Kelly Murray, J.D. is a legal scholar, former law professor, and serial entrepreneur advancing Realty Asset Dispute Resolution nationwide. She earned her undergraduate degree Phi Beta Kappa from Stanford University and her law degree cum laude from Harvard Law School, and served for 18 years as faculty at a Top 20 U.S. law school. Kelly is the Lead Investigator and Faculty Member for the National Family Court Project on Housing and Financial Justice, where her work focuses on preserving homeownership eligibility and financial stability in family disputes, including divorce, trusts, elder law, and probate matters. Her expertise is grounded in real litigated cases involving enforcement failures, not theory. She is also the host of the Wealth Litigated Podcast. Blog Article + Free Resource To help you go deeper, Susan has written a companion blog article for this episode: 📝 Blog Article: The Most Dangerous Words in Divorce: “We’ll Handle That Later” This article explains why enforcement issues are so often overlooked and how seemingly reasonable agreements fail when enforcement is not planned from the start. 📄 Free Resource from Kelly Lise Murray: Kelly has created a free enforcement resource to help consumers understand what to ask and what to watch for when negotiating divorce agreements.  Get the resource here: Beyond.DivorceThisHouse.com   🔗 Enforce the Divorce: https://EnforceTheDivorce.com   👉 You’ll find links to both the blog article and the free resource in the show notes and on the latest episode page at divorceandbeyondpod.com/latest-episode. Additional Resources Mentioned Divorce Real Estate & Mortgage Specialists (RCS-D Directory): https://divorcethishouse.com/member-directory-rcs-ds-divorce-real-estate-specialists/ Continuing Education for Lawyers & Financial Professionals: https://vettingthehouse.com/ Connect with Kelly Lise Murray LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellylisemurray/ Instagram: @kellylisemurray Final Thought If you cannot enforce the agreement you signed, you may not receive what you negotiated. This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating divorce, mediation, or settlement discussions. 🎧 Listen now, and review the blog article and free resource before you sign anything.   ===================== Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************** Yumiyu Jewelry YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU  Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

It is Divorce Day. January 5, 2026. And if you are listening on the day this episode drops, divorce is everywhere. It is on the news, across social media, whispered in conversations, and quietly sitting in the background for many people as the holidays come to an end. Here is a simple truth: Divorce Day creates more noise than clarity. This episode is designed to help you slow down, get oriented, and understand what actually matters on Day One. In fact, after more than three decades as a divorce attorney and mediator, Susan Guthrie knows this truth better than anyone: Advice is loud. Opinions are everywhere. Much of what circulates today is designed to provoke urgency, fear, or dramatic action. The biggest mistake people make on Divorce Day is believing this day requires action. It does not. What it requires is understanding. In this grounded, compassionate solo episode, Susan walks listeners through the five things you need to know on Day One, sharing the foundational truths that separate people who navigate divorce intentionally from those who spend years undoing a rushed beginning. If divorce is on your mind today, this episode offers clarity, steadiness, and permission to pause. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN:  Why Divorce Day is about readiness, not action, and how confusing the two leads to regret rather than relief. Why information must come before strategy, and how accurate, jurisdiction-specific knowledge calms fear and prevents avoidable mistakes. How the way divorce begins shapes everything that follows, including tone, communication, and long-term outcomes. Why divorce is not one decision but a series of decisions, and how choosing how you decide matters more than deciding everything at once. Why your divorce team matters more than you think, and how choosing the wrong professionals early can cost years of stress and unnecessary expense. MORE SUPPORT: If today’s episode resonated with you, Susan has also written a companion blog article titled Before You Say Anything: The Conversations That Can Make or Break Your Divorce, which explores why the earliest conversations often shape the entire divorce process. We have paired it with a free downloadable guide, Before You Say Anything: A Divorce Conversation Prep Guide, designed to help you slow down, choose your words intentionally, and protect your options before anything is filed. You can find them on the website at https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/Blog MENTIONED EPISODES: The Divorce & Beyond episode archive is designed to support you at the very beginning of this process, when questions feel overwhelming and clarity feels out of reach and as you move through your divorce journey. Inside the archive, you will find conversations like: Divorce Triage: Who to Call First and How to Build the Right Support Team with Susan Guthrie ”We Need to Talk:” How to Have the Most Difficult Conversation of Your Life with Kate Anthony When Divorce Gets Messy: Why Litigation Is Sometimes the Only Answer with Leading Attorney, Marc Garelick You can search the full Divorce & Beyond archive by topic at divorceandbeyondpod.com and start with the episodes that speak most directly to where you are right now. ===================== Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************** Yumiyu Jewelry YUMIYU Jewelry is Susan’s favorite source for meaningful, handcrafted jewelry designed to empower women and celebrate individuality. Each piece is made with care, using high-quality materials like real gold and vermeil, and is water-resistant, non-tarnish, and hypoallergenic. During difficult times, like divorce, wearing a symbol of hope or protection—such as a hamsa or an evil eye—can be a comforting reminder to keep the faith and stay strong. As a special gift to my listeners, YUMIYU Jewelry is offering 20% off your purchase! Use the code "BEYOND" at checkout to claim your discount. Explore their stunning collection at yumiyujewelry.com and find your perfect piece today! Link: https://divorcebeyond.com/YUMIYU  Code: “BEYOND” for 20% off! ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

It is the quiet week between Christmas and New Year’s. The guests have gone home, the adrenaline has worn off, and you are likely left with a heavy realization: The holidays didn’t fix it. If you are currently Googling "how to get a divorce" or secretly looking up attorneys while your spouse is in the other room, you are not alone. Next Monday, January 5th, is known in the legal industry as "Divorce Day," where inquiries skyrocket by 25%. But before you make a call that you cannot unmake, Susan Guthrie has a message for you: Stop. Just breathe. In this urgent and deeply practical solo episode, Susan reveals why the "smartest people" wait until March to file, and exactly what they do in January instead. Drawing on 35 years of practice, she breaks down the "Broken Promise" theory, the danger of the "New Year's Resolution Bomb," and why urgency is the enemy of a good divorce. If you are feeling the pressure to act, this episode is your permission slip to pause, plan, and protect your future before you ever step foot in a courtroom. IN THIS EPISODE, YOU WILL LEARN: The "Broken Promise" Theory: Why the holidays amplify marital cracks rather than fixing them. The January vs. March Strategy: Why amateurs rush to file in January, while strategists use the month for "vetting and verification". The 3 Critical Questions: What you must ask yourself before you hire a professional (hint: do you know the "business reality" of your marriage?). The "First Responder" Rule: Why your first call should almost never be to a lawyer—and who you should call instead. The Financial Reality Check: The sobering statistic about the 41% drop in household income for women post-divorce and how to prevent it. Mistakes to Avoid: Why hiring a "shark" out of fear is the fastest way to burn through $30,000+.   FEATURED RESOURCES & DOWNLOADS: FREE DOWNLOAD: The "January Strategy Calendar" Don't spin your wheels this month. Susan has created a free 4-week "Pre-Season" planner to help you audit your emotions, gather financial documents, and vet professionals before you file. 👉 Download the January Strategy Calendar Here   NEW BLOG ARTICLE: "Why the Smartest People Wait Until March to File" Dive deeper into the strategy behind waiting and learn the specific steps to take right now to prepare for a better outcome. 👉 Read the Full Article Here   MENTIONED EPISODES: "Divorce Triage" with Susan Guthrie: Learn more about selecting the right "First Responder" for your specific crisis.  https://divorcebeyond.com/divorce-triage "We Need to Talk" with Kate Anthony: The ultimate guide to having the "I want a divorce" conversation without blowing up your life. https://divorcebeyond.com/The-Talk ********************************************* Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM  

As Divorce & Beyond closes out 2025, Susan Guthrie welcomes back Trina Nudson for a powerful bookend conversation exploring BeAligned, a revolutionary AI-powered reflection platform designed to help parents regulate emotions, interrupt the cycle of conflict, and problem-solve with their children’s wellbeing at the center. BeAligned is not another communication app, and it is not about getting co-parents to agree or behave perfectly. Instead, Trina explains how the platform meets parents where they are, supports emotional regulation in real time, and helps interrupt the conflict cycles that so often take over co-parenting relationships. Susan and Trina also explore how even one parent can shift the entire family dynamic, why co-parenting is about awareness rather than perfection, and how using technology intentionally can make co-parenting easier during emotionally charged moments. Why This Conversation Matters Co-parenting is hard even in intact families. Add divorce, grief, fear, and conflict, and it can feel overwhelming. Many parents know what they should do but struggle to access those tools in the moment when emotions take over. This conversation matters because BeAligned acknowledges the reality of human emotions and provides support in real time. It helps parents step out of fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, see the bigger picture, and create solutions that protect childhoods without relying on blame, shame, or court intervention. You Will Learn: Why it only takes one parent to shift the co-parenting dynamic Why co-parenting is not about perfection, but about awareness and regulation How BeAligned helps parents move from reaction to alignment and interrupt the cycle of conflict How technology can support calmer communication without replacing attorneys, therapists, or coaches Why focusing on children’s needs changes everything Special Offer from Trina Nudson and BeAligned: Trina is generously offering Divorce & Beyond listeners 90 days of free access to BeAligned using code BEYOND.  No credit card required. You’ll get full access to the platform’s reflection tools and support resources, and an invitation to share feedback that helps improve and expand its impact. Visit http://BeAligned.app to get started. About the Guest:  Trina Nudson is a family law attorney, mediator, court-appointed guardian ad litem, child advocate, Certified Divorce Coach® (CDC®), Divorce Coaching Academy® graduate (DCA®), and Licensed Bachelor Social Worker with more than 25 years of experience in the trenches of high-conflict co-parenting and family systems. She is the founder of The Layne Project, owner of My Child Advocate, PA, and the creator of the evidence-based BeH2O® co-parenting system and BeAligned™, an AI-powered reflection platform that helps parents move from reaction to alignment. Across thousands of cases, Trina has worked alongside judges, attorneys, therapists, and schools to center children’s wellbeing while helping parents navigate some of the hardest seasons of their lives. Her mission is simple and non-negotiable: safeguarding childhoods by helping adults show up with clarity, steadiness, and purpose—especially when it’s hard. Websites: BeAligned: http://bealigned.app BeH20: http://BeH2OCoparenting.com Social Media: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trina-nudson-19b169149/ Divorce and Beyond Appearances: The Business of Co-Parenting: How Neuroscience and Mindset Coaching Are Transforming Conflict into Collaboration with Trina Nudson on Divorce & Beyond ===================== Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Divorce can feel like you’re unravelling from the inside out, and today Dr. Beth Karassik and Louise Zito, Esq. join Susan E. Guthrie to explain why and how you can regain your emotional footing.  If you’re overwhelmed, scared, or emotionally flooded in the middle of divorce, there is a scientific reason for it and there are ways to steady yourself, even when everything around you feels chaotic. In this powerful conversation, Susan Guthrie is joined by clinical psychologist and neuropsychologist Dr. Beth Karassik and longtime mediator and collaborative professional Louise Zito, Esq. to break down what’s happening in your brain and body during divorce and share practical tools for restoring calm, clarity, and control. Together, they help you understand why your reactions feel so big, why everyday decisions suddenly feel impossible, and what you can do right now to support your nervous system through one of the most destabilizing experiences of your life. Plus, for legal practitioners, discover how Beth and Louise’s work can help you re-align, re-center, and rein in the chaos of divorce work. Why This Conversation Matters When you’re navigating divorce without understanding what’s happening in your nervous system, it’s easy to blame yourself, question your decisions, or feel like you’re failing. But the truth is this: divorce places an extraordinary cognitive and emotional load on you. When you know why you’re reacting the way you are and you have tools that actually help you communicate more effectively, you make better choices, and you’re able to protect your well-being through every stage of the process. And for the professionals who support divorcing individuals, understanding these emotional dynamics (and tending to their own regulation) directly affects their ability to guide clients forward. A grounded professional creates a grounded process, leading to healthier outcomes for everyone involved. This conversation supports both sides of the experience: the people living through divorce and the practitioners walking beside them. You Will Learn: Why divorce triggers fear, confusion, and emotional flooding How stress impacts communication, decision-making, and co-parenting Signs that your overwhelm is actually a trauma response Practical grounding tools you can use today Scripts for setting emotional boundaries during conflict How to build a support system that keeps you steady Why the emotional health of your divorce professional affects your experience Insight into the Calma Collective Retreat supporting divorce professionals Download the Calming Exercise Guide from this Episode: Access the grounding tools discussed in this episode. These simple practices, including the three deep breaths and hands-on-heart reset, can help steady your mind and body during stressful moments. Keep it nearby for quick support whenever you need it. Download your guide here: https://divorcebeyond.com/staying-grounded About the Guests:  Dr. Beth Karassik is a clinical psychologist who, after many years as a Collaborative Divorce Coach and a Mediator, has partnered with Louise Zito, Esq. in Calma Collective, LLC, a company that provides transformational retreats and professional training.  Beth is a member of the International Academy of Collaborative Professionals, President of Divorce Solutions of Connecticut, and a member of the Collaborative Divorce Team of CT. She is a member of the Professional Development Committee and a Board and Executive Committee member of the Connecticut Council for Non-adversarial Divorce (CCND – www.gooddivorcect.com). She is committed to supporting children, adults, and families in having their lives align with their values, serve their best interests, and be expressions of what matters most to them.  Learn more about Dr. Karassik: https://www.drbethkarassik.com For more information on Calma Collective Retreats, visit: calma-collective-retreats.com   Louise Zito, Esq has mediated family and related matters for over 30 years and draws heavily on her Mediation experience in her Collaborative Divorce work. She is Of-Counsel to Dolan Family Law, in Connecticut, giving consultations on collaboration, family matters and impasse, as well as giving second opinions. She is partners with Beth Karassik, PhD in Calma Collective, LLC a Retreat and Training collaboration. She trains Attorneys, Family Specialists and Financial Specialists in Basic and Advanced Family Mediation and offers advanced trainings to Collaborative Law Professionals. Louise is a Senior Fellow to the Quinnipiac School of Law Center on Dispute Resolution, she is the co-developer and trainer of the APFM Verified 40 Hour Basic Divorce Mediation Training (CT Family Mediation Training Group) and an APFM Certified Advanced Practitioner. She developed an advanced training "In Whose Best Interest, or When To Call It Quits' (addressing screening methods to prevent termination and how and when to terminate Mediation and Collaborative Divorce proceedings.) She leads retreats for mediators and collaborative professionals and other family law practitioners.  She co-founded the Divorce Solutions of CT and the Ct Family Mediation Training Group. She is a member of the Collaborative Divorce Team of CT, Connecticut Summit of Collaborative Professionals, Connecticut Collaborative Connection, Mediate.com, APFM and IACP. Louise is a member of the Board of Directors and Past President of the Connecticut Council for Non-adversarial Divorce (CCND).  Learn more about Lousie: https://dolanfamilylaw.com/louise-r-zito/ For more information on Calma Collective Retreats, visit: calma-collective-retreats.com   ===================== Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** HELLO DIVORCE: A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Special Offer from Blue Mercury Treat yourself to luxury skincare, makeup, and fragrance favorites from Blue Mercury, your destination for beauty and self-care. Divorce & Beyond listeners receive 15% off their first order when they use the special link in the show notes. Because you deserve to look and feel your best,  inside and out. You must use this link to receive the 15% off on your first Blue Mercury order: https://divorcebeyond.com/Blue-Mercury ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

Susan Guthrie welcomes two extraordinary guests whose combined perspectives offer something rarely seen in the world of divorce. Bill Eddy, LCSW, Esq., returns to the show alongside author Matthew A. Tower, whose new book Love Wars: Clash of the Parents gives listeners an unprecedented inside look at what high-conflict divorce feels like through the eyes of a child. Together, their insights reveal the emotional reality children carry, the predictable patterns behind high-conflict behaviors, and the steps parents can take to protect their kids from the fallout. Love Wars follows Matthew’s journey from ages six to eleven as he navigated two volatile households, emotional unpredictability, parentification, negative advocates, and the relentless pressure to choose sides. His story is raw, illuminating, and at times difficult to hear, yet it is also deeply important. Bill helps contextualize Matthew’s lived experience through High Conflict Personality Theory and offers guidance parents and professionals can use immediately. This conversation is a powerful companion to Bill’s book Splitting and the perfect next step for anyone committed to changing the emotional climate for their children. Why This Conversation Matters High-conflict divorce leaves a lasting imprint on children, but the full internal experience is almost never visible to parents, courts, or professionals. Matthew’s story pulls back the curtain on what children absorb, what they fear, how they cope, and why the conflict shapes them long after the legal case is over. Bill explains how splitting, emotional volatility, and personality-driven dynamics create confusion, fear, and reactivity for children who do not yet have the capacity to regulate intense emotions. He also highlights why professionals often miss what is really happening, and how parents can change the trajectory by lowering conflict, creating predictability, and becoming the steady emotional anchor their children desperately need. Together, Bill and Matthew offer clarity, compassion, and a path forward for families caught in high-conflict cycles. In this episode, you will learn: What children internalize during high-conflict divorce and why they absorb the emotional intensity around them Why parentification is so damaging and how children become emotional caregivers when adults are dysregulated How high-conflict parents recruit negative advocates and why these dynamics intensify the conflict Why kids shut down, freeze, or dissociate when the emotional environment becomes overwhelming How calm, consistent adults like Matthew’s stepmother Holly can become a lifeline What courts and professionals often overlook when evaluating children’s preferences or resistance What parents can do right now to lower reactivity, reduce conflict, and create safety for their children About the Guests:  Bill Eddy, LCSW, Esq. - Bill Eddy is a lawyer, therapist, mediator, best-selling author, co-founder, and Chief Innovation Officer of the High Conflict Institute. He pioneered the High Conflict Personality Theory (HCP Theory) and has become an international expert on managing disputes involving high conflict personalities and personality disorders. He provides training to lawyers, judges, mediators, managers, human resource professionals, businesspersons, healthcare administrators, college administrators, homeowners’ association managers, ombudspersons, law enforcement, therapists and others. He has been a speaker and trainer in over 30 U.S. states and 10 countries. Visit the High Conflict Institute to find out more about Bill, the Institute's wealth of resources for managing high conflict relationships and more of Bill's books!   https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/ Listen to Bill's other episode, "Get Ready to BIFF Your High Conflict Co-Parent" on Divorce & Beyond here:  https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-q3hpd-f87a79 Get your copy of Splitting: How to Protect Yourself When Divorcing a Narcissist or Borderline here: https://amzn.to/3C22aGH Matthew A. Tower - Matthew A. Tower is an author, art director, audiobook narrator, and entrepreneur. He first saw Star Wars in theaters at age three. Love Wars: Clash of the Parents, A True Divorce Story is his debut work of literature. Previously, he was founder and CEO of Versus Books, and published more than 50 gaming strategy guides for hits like The Legend of Zelda, selling over 5 million copies. Get your copy of Love Wars: Clash of the Parents here: https://amzn.to/4oCN15T  Learn more at: https://lovewars.com ===================== Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation’s leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC’s Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM