How to Win the Financial Case for Climate with Nigel Topping, Chair UK Climate Change Committee

The climate transition is moving faster than the news suggests. In this episode, industry guru Nigel Topping makes the commercial case for paying attention to exponential growth, falling technology costs, and the financial incentives that can turn climate action into sound business strategy.In this episodeWhy positive climate progress rarely makes the news, despite battery costs falling by 18% per year and EV adoption growing rapidly 03:10Moving beyond abstract emissions targets towards practical sector goals, such as green steel production, zero-carbon shipping, and mangrove restoration 03:49Why capital won’t flow until financiers’ problem-solving expertise is properly engaged 06:48How sustainability is becoming embedded in product strategy, procurement, engineering, and finance 08:46Why investors should work with high-emitting companies that have credible decarbonisation plans, rather than simply selling those holdings 11:05The role of policy, market design, and financial incentives in scaling heat pumps, EVs, green steel, and clean shipping 13:14How peer experience, better infrastructure, falling costs, and policy alignment are accelerating EV adoption 27:57Why businesses need an “exponential radar” to spot technologies that may look small today but are doubling rapidly 41:04How the UK could be financially better off by transitioning, with fossil-fuel price volatility alone potentially adding £400 billion to UK borrowing by 2050 33:24Why sustainability professionals need to work closely with the people who control investment decisions 43:00Key takeawaysStop leading with emissionsNigel Topping argues that emissions reduction shouldn’t always be the main business driver. The stronger case may be lower operating costs, new markets, resilience, technology leadership, or protection against future regulation.Track the curve, not just the snapshotA technology moving from 1% to 2% adoption may not look significant. After successive doublings, it reaches 4%, 16%, and 64%. Nigel Topping warns that businesses can be left behind if they wait for a trend to become obvious.Learn by doingA company doesn’t need to lead across its entire value chain. It can start with a proportion of its fleet, join a purchasing coalition, invest in innovation, acquire technology, or build internal capability. The important point is to get into the market early enough to learn 31:11.Engage finance as a thinking partnerCapital markets are sophisticated, and money doesn’t move simply because businesses are told that more funding is needed. Nigel Topping says businesses must understand why capital is not flowing and work with financiers to solve those barriers 07:42.Make the commercial story dynamicA useful board conversation should show where technology is heading, who is investing, how costs are changing, and where the company can lead, collaborate, buy, or develop. As Nigel Topping puts it, “Don’t show a snapshot, show a movie” 40:45.Questions for listenersWhich technologies are changing fastest in your sector?Where could your organisation learn by doing rather than waiting for certainty?Is your sustainability case framed in language that commercial and finance teams use?Where should your organisation lead, collaborate, buy capability, or support others?Have you spoken directly with the people who control investment decisions?Climate Change CommitteeAmbition LoopBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

Emma Burlow explores why sustainability professionals shouldn’t spend all their energy trying to refute every piece of misinformation or resistance they encounter.Brandolini’s Law states that:“The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.”That imbalance makes endless fact-checking exhausting, and it can hand control of the conversation to the person making the claim.In this episodeWhy misinformation takes far less effort to produce than to refute, introduced at 02:36The common forms of pushback captured by FLICC:Fake expertsLogical fallaciesImpossible expectationsCherry-pickingConspiracy theoriesHow to recognize and name the type of resistance you’re hearing at 06:14The “not me, not like this, not now, and too late” pattern of delay arguments at 09:21Not me (shifting responsibility)Not like this (half-measures)Not now (the downsides)Too late (giving up)Why confident pushback can feel like a threat, even when it’s only one person’s unsupported claim at 10:10Why debating every point can leave the rest of the room remembering the myth, not the correctionHow pre-bunking helps people expect misinformation and respond with curiosity instead of confrontation at 12:53Why repeating a myth, even to correct it, can make it more memorable at 13:48How naming patterns can take the heat out of difficult conversations at 18:35Key takeawayYou don’t have to spend all of your energy debunking unsupported claims. Name the pattern, ask what evidence supports it, and give everyone else in the room the skills to stay curious without being dragged down the rabbit hole.Links:Brandolini, A. (2013). Original post on X (then Twitter), 11 January 2013.Lewandowsky, S., Cook, J., Ecker, U. K. H. et al. (2020). The Debunking Handbook 2020. https://sks.to/db2020Cook, J. (2020). A history of FLICC: the 5 techniques of science denial. Skeptical Science. https://skepticalscience.com/history-FLICC-5-techniques-science-denial.htmlLamb, W. F. et al. (2020). Discourses of climate delay. Global Sustainability, 3, e17. https://doi.org/10.1017/sus.2020.13Schmid, P. & Betsch, C. (2019). Effective strategies for rebutting science denialism in public discussions. Nature Human Behaviour, 3, 931–939. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-019-0632-4Book a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

In this episode of Straight Talking Sustainability, Emma Burlow talks with Rhian Sherrington, founder of the Women in Sustainability Network, about building meaningful professional communities, navigating gender bias, and developing the inner capacity to lead through conflict and uncertainty.Rhian Sherrington, FRSA, MScRhian Sherrington, Founder and Head Coach, Women in Sustainability Network and Flourish & Lead CommunityRhian is an executive coach and leadership development practitioner who supports women leading sustainability, climate and systems change. She runs group programmes and one-to-one coaching for women in mid-career to senior roles who carry a lot of responsibility, often without the formal authority that should come with it.She founded the Women in Sustainability Network in 2014, and its community now has a new home in Flourish & Lead, an external development programme for women who want to lead with impact, whether or not sustainability is in their job title. Her approach draws on regenerative leadership, systems thinking and learning in and from nature. She is a Mighty Heart® trainer and a certified C-Me Profile® facilitator, and brings embodied practice and neuroscience into her work.Why Rhian Sherrington created the Women in Sustainability Network after finding traditional business networking “pretty” salesy and affected by misogyny 02:12.How the network grew from a Bristol gathering attended by more than 80 people into an international community with online membership 02:55.What makes networking feel safe, purposeful and less overwhelming, including the importance of facilitation, group dynamics and psychological safety 05:51.The different layers of connection across the Women in Sustainability Network, including its LinkedIn group of more than 17,000 women and mailing list of around 3,500 people 07:26.Why women in sustainability can be present in the room yet still struggle to be heard or influence decisions 09:50.The career impact of unequal access to stretch assignments, senior roles and professional opportunities 11:36.The launch of Flourish and Lead Community, with pathways focused on confidence and voice, influence in complex systems, and regenerative leadership 15:18.How nature imagery, seasonal cycles and the lunar cycle will shape the Flourish and Lead community experience 18:14.What the Mighty Heart programme brings to sustainability professionals, including deep listening, conflict resolution, presence and working with the inner critic 23:17.Why engaging with grief, anxiety and difficult emotions takes courage, but can change how people show up in the world 26:43.A practical exercise for identifying and renegotiating the relationship with the inner critic 30:21.The value of slowing down, listening more intentionally and creating an environment where people feel safe to speak 35:49.Emma Burlow’s takeaway about making deliberate time for reflection and creating “a clearing” rather than expecting inner work to happen by itself 38:21.ResourcesWomen in Sustainability Network: wimsustainability.netFlourish and Lead Community: flourishandlead.academyNetworking with Purpose guide, available through the Women in Sustainability Network website 06:53Connect with Rhian on LinkedInJoin me in the Flourish and Lead CommunityBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

When did climate change become awkward to talk about? This episode explores the gap between what people think others believe and what people actually support, arguing that silence can make climate action seem more divisive than it is.The episode is a spin on the famous Transport for London prompt: see it, say it, sorted.In this episodeReflections from the Blue Earth Summit, including an unexpected conference sauna 00:26Why words like “polarised” and “divisive” have entered the climate conversation 01:53The gap between public concern about climate change and the noisy minority opposing action 04:07Why net zero isn’t a purely political or “green” issue 05:02How green hushing and cautious corporate messaging create a “sea of sameness” 07:57Why employees take cues from what leaders do and don’t say 09:03The responsibility of sustainability professionals to challenge silence around climate change 10:39Moving from “Do I have permission?” to “It’s my responsibility” 11:31Why stories and conversations may be more effective than repeatedly building the business case 12:11A practical exercise for revealing how much support for climate action exists in a room 15:09How sharing knowledge can help people feel informed, confident and empowered 19:38Key takeawayMost people care about clean air, nature, food prices and their children’s futures, but many have never been asked. When sustainability professionals spot the silence, start the conversation and share compelling stories, climate action becomes easier to discuss.“It’s only as divisive as our silence allows it to be.” 21:14Conversation promptsWhere has climate change disappeared from conversations in your organisation?Are people mistaking loud opposition for widespread disagreement?What story could you share instead of another target, KPI or statistic?What would help colleagues feel safer and more confident talking about climate change?Book a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

In this episode, Emma Burlow talks with Liv Cropper, transformational coach and host of the podcast Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership.Liv Cropper shares how she moved from 25 years in financial services into coaching sustainability leaders, why she nearly quit a postgraduate sustainability course, and what happens when sustainability work becomes too closely tied to your identity.In this episodeMoving into sustainability without a traditional science or environmental backgroundWhy transferable skills such as stakeholder management and problem-solving matterThe pressure to collect qualifications and prove your expertiseHow perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork can shape a sustainability careerThe emotional cost of being placed on a “sustainability pedestal”Climate purism, personal choices and the pressure to “walk the talk”Why disillusionment can follow when your whole identity is invested in work that cannot be solved by one personHow coaching can help sustainability leaders reconnect with their values, strengths and identity outside workFinding practical, enjoyable and affordable ways to live your valuesKey momentsLiv Cropper explains her transition from financial services into coaching after burnout, bereavement and redundancy at 01:25.Her sustainability career covered operational emissions, Scope 1 and Scope 2, then Scope 3, financed emissions, policy and target-setting at 03:41.Liv Cropper describes entering sustainability as a generalist rather than a science specialist at 05:18.She talks about nearly giving up during her postgraduate certificate in Sustainable Business at 10:27.The idea behind Rooted, focusing on “the human side of sustainability leadership,” comes up at 13:24.Liv Cropper explains why looking inward is difficult, slow work rather than a quick fix at 15:09.The conversation turns to perfectionism, people-pleasing and overwork at 17:48.Liv Cropper describes how sustainability work can intensify existing patterns of overwork when it adds a powerful sense of purpose at 19:23.The pressure to be a perfect sustainability role model, including around travel, comes into focus at 24:10.Liv Cropper explains how losing hope can become a turning point in disillusionment at 36:06.Coaching may reveal that the problem isn’t the sustainability profession itself, but the beliefs and patterns someone brings to their work at 37:38.The episode closes with a reminder to find sustainability choices that feel possible, enjoyable and affordable at 41:59.Find out moreLiv CropperSearch for Rooted Liv Cropper to find the podcast.Book a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

The sustainability sector is facing a slowdown, pushback, and political reframing. In this episode, Emma Burlow explains how to stay relevant, find work, and avoid burning out when sustainability knowledge alone no longer sets you apart.In this episodeWhy some sustainability work is being sidelined, rebadged, or called something else 02:59Why narrowing your niche can lead to more work than presenting yourself as a generalist 04:29The transferable skills that now matter alongside sustainability expertise 05:57Why “passion” won’t win you work, and what clients actually need 09:40How procurement, risk, and other existing skills can become your sustainability advantage 11:47Why stabilising your workload and energy matters when the sector feels uncertain 13:10The three pots to protect: profession, obsession, and decompression 14:14Key takeawaysNiche down around something people need and are willing to pay for.Build skills in communication, relationship development, analysis, problem-solving, resilience, risk, and leadership for change.Use your existing professional strengths. “Every job’s a climate job.”Don’t let sustainability become your entire identity or your only source of energy.Make room for genuine decompression. Reading another climate book doesn’t count.“You need to be shit hot at your job.” 10:33“We are no good to our sector exhausted.” 13:22Not SustainableBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

Emma Burlow talks with Sarah Mukherjee, CEO of the Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals, about the pressures facing sustainability professionals, the business case for climate resilience, AI, public engagement, optimism, and why failure is part of progress.In this episodeWhy professional standards matter in sustainability, and how ISEP evolved from IEMA 01:10How ISEP supports more than 21,000 members across over 120 countries 05:43What the latest State of the Profession report reveals about political headwinds, resilience, and funding 08:29Why businesses are reframing sustainability as resilience, risk management, and business continuity 08:40The insurance and finance implications of weak climate adaptation plans 11:19Sarah Mukherjee’s advice: “Plan for 2, stress test for 4” degrees of warming 14:16How sustainability professionals can bring climate risk into boardroom conversations 16:53Why blaming and shaming people over flying can alienate the audiences sustainability needs to reach 19:40Focusing on material emissions and savings instead of treating every intervention as equal 25:51The opportunities and risks of AI for sustainability professionals 29:18Why AI-generated work still requires professional judgement, accountability, and human oversight 30:33The case for optimism, even when progress feels slower than the challenge 35:34Why sustainability professionals need permission to experiment, fail, learn, and try again 41:38Key quotes“Plan for 2, stress test for 4.”Sarah Mukherjee explains how organisations can test whether their business models remain viable under more severe climate conditions 14:16.“If you save carbon, if you save inputs, it’s going to save money.”Sarah Mukherjee makes the case for connecting decarbonisation with resource efficiency and business savings 26:13.“The way of losing it is to give up.”Sarah Mukherjee reflects on the importance of persistence in sustainability work 38:12.“The most important thing you can do is fail and then recover.”Sarah Mukherjee discusses resilience, career setbacks, and the role of failure in professional development 42:30.Listen forEmma Burlow and Sarah Mukherjee challenge narrow sustainability messaging and argue for a more practical focus on resilience, business continuity, material emissions, financial risk, and solutions that people can realistically adopt 24:25.Sarah Mukherjee MBE | LinkedInISEP - Institute of Sustainability and Environmental ProfessionalsState of the Profession - ISEPBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

Emma Burlow marks 100 episodes of Straight Talking Sustainability by reflecting on why she started the podcast, what has surprised her, and where the show goes next.In this episodeWhy a podcast felt more achievable than writing a book after nearly 30 years in sustainability 03:07The need for more female voices in sustainability podcasting 03:59How the podcast helps Emma Burlow share experience, connect with others, and create more impact 05:06Reaching 12,000 downloads, with an average of 128 downloads a week 01:57The importance of process, even for people who prefer to wing it 08:40Why podcasting is a “dark art” and why authenticity matters more than polished production 09:30The slow growth of podcast numbers and the danger of fixating on them 11:15Creating conversations that feel more like the valuable, informal discussions after a conference 12:29A sharper focus on practical questions, useful experiences, and getting “to the nub of the issue” 13:29Plans for more book reviews, a resource Padlet, and video episodes 15:47Episodes recommendedThe 52 Sustainability Hacks series, including spring, summer, autumn, and winter editions 17:42Getting Past “Yes in Principle” 18:41Is Climate Anxiety Actually Healthy? 19:07Early episodes on working in communities and sustainability leadership 18:18Key quote“Winging it is great until it isn’t great.” 08:54Emma invites listeners to share feedback, suggest future topics and books, and recommend the podcast to a friend or colleague. 19:52Book a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

Emma Burlow talks with Jessica Riches, independent filmmaker and existential crisis communication strategist, about using sex, entertainment, humour, and trusted creators to make climate communication cut through.In this episodeWhy climate communicators need to “jump off the cliff of the norm” rather than take small steps, as Jessica Riches explains at 02:57.The three reasons people shut down when confronted with existential risks: unfamiliar unknowns, exponential risk, and the feeling that they have no agency 06:42.How parasocial relationships and trusted voices can communicate complex ideas more effectively than distant institutions or experts 09:29.Why Jessica Riches turned to OnlyFans as a space for reaching audiences who are often overlooked by climate campaigns 14:51.The thinking behind Headline Newds, a campaign delivering climate news through adult-content creators 24:24.How the project worked with creators as co-creators rather than handing them a rigid communications brief 23:38.Why facts alone haven’t shifted public understanding of climate change, and why the messenger matters as much as the message 29:56.The campaign’s reach, including hundreds of thousands of views and strong levels of shares and saves despite widespread shadow banning 32:28.Why climate communicators should stop treating people as corporate audiences and start recognising them as humans with existing interests, relationships, and communities 44:55.Jessica Riches’ advice to take bigger creative risks, challenge conventional impact metrics, and consider a “little mini revolution” 45:48.Memorable moments“Better facts are not going to make this better.” Jessica Riches argues that climate communication has focused too heavily on accuracy, while overlooking story, trust, and cultural relevance at 30:00.Jessica Riches describes Headline Newds as a way to combine climate facts with “a few puns and some sexual innuendo” while reaching communities that climate campaigns rarely prioritise 43:15.The central challenge for sustainability professionals: being boring is rarely safer than being unexpected, especially when the goal is to reach people beyond the usual sustainability audience 45:07.Content warningThis episode includes sexual content, strong language, discussions of pornography and sex work, and references to climate-related death and societal collapse.Jessica Riches | LinkedInJessica Riches (@notpeterthiel_) • Instagram photos and videosJessica Riches – Jessica Riches is the world's first existential crisis comms strategist – working in climate change and AI riskBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable

The conversation focused on the implications of the UNEP report Limiting Overshoot, which warns that global warming could reach 1.8°C even under the best-case pathway, with current policies potentially leading to 2.6°C.The discussion explored whether sustainability professionals should replace the 1.5°C message with 1.8°C, or stay focused on the existing target. The answer depends on the audience. People who already understand the science may be ready to discuss overshoot in more depth. For others, introducing another number could create confusion, weaken existing targets, or encourage a “what’s the point?” response.Key takeawaysThe UNEP report says overshoot is unavoidable, but warming can still be brought back down through a “peak and decline” strategy.Current policies could lead to 2.6°C of warming 04:18.Every fraction of a degree above 1.5°C increases the risks 04:40.The required actions include immediate emissions cuts, methane reductions, a rapid transition to net zero, carbon dioxide removal, and adaptation 05:15.Don’t add complexity before people understand the basics of climate change, urgency, and agency 07:21.If an organisation already has a 1.5°C target, introducing 1.8°C without context could muddy the waters 10:00.Sustainability messaging should reflect the audience’s level of awareness and readiness 10:52.If the basics aren’t in place, focus on carbon literacy training, lunch and learns, e-learning supported by real engagement, or showing the National Emergency Briefing 14:08.If the basics are in place, identify what’s preventing faster emissions reductions, stronger advocacy, supply-chain transformation, or industry leadership 15:46.Overwhelm can be reduced by finding the “nugget of truth,” breaking the issue down, and acting on what’s achievable 12:19.Supporting sustainability teams matters, even when sustainability isn’t part of the job title 13:43.Ask honestly:Do the climate basics exist across the organisation?Is the current target driving real progress?What’s stopping faster and bigger carbon reductions?Is there a rock in the way that needs to be identified and removed?The episode’s central message is clear: 1.8°C is a warning, not a reason to stop. There’s still a great deal to do 18:47.Yes, we’re heading towards 1.8 degrees of warming, but there’s still a damn lot we can do in the meantime. Don’t stay in overwhelm. Get the basics in place, support each other, and take action.Limiting Overshoot UNEP ReportBook a Power Hour with Emmahttps://calendly.com/emma-lighthouse/power-hourConnect with EmmaWebsiteEmailEmma Burlow | LinkedInNot Sustainable