Why Performance Comes Before Promotion with Mark Thurmond

Thirty days into the CEO job, Bob Darbelnet’s first board meeting opened with a question about where he planned to take the company. His answer was “I don’t know yet. I’m still listening and learning.” It’s one of nearly 100 lessons in The CEO’s Playbook, from a leader who started out driving a road service truck in Quebec and went on to run AAA. With John McMahon and John Kaplan, Bob explains why rolling out a new strategy in your first 90 days backfires, what separates a strong board member from a passive one, and why your old playbook has to stay behind when you step up. Bob Darbelnet is the former President and CEO of AAA, has served on 17 boards across the U.S., Canada and Europe, and wrote The CEO’s Playbook: Leading from the Boardroom to the Breakroom, which he shares free on LinkedIn one chapter a week. Connect with Bob:LinkedIn Resources mentioned:The CEO’s Playbook - Leading from the Boardroom to the Breakroom by Bob Darbelnet Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 Why “I don’t know yet” was the best answer Bob gave at his first board meeting as CEO11:56 What it really takes to stay balanced in a job that is never done21:09 What leaders often overlook about a board that decides everything unanimously30:51 The mistake many operators make when they bring a problem to the board with only one answer35:17 A look inside Bob’s rule for bad news, and why “too bad to be true” deserves a second look47:31 Why new leaders who skip the listening phase walk straight into the 90 day trap51:32 Bob Darbelnet’s perspective on leaving your old playbook behind when you get promoted Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Most companies think strategy is about finding the next big competitive advantage, but Chuck Bamford has learned through years advising Fortune 500 companies that half of strategy isn't about winning – it's about not losing. It's about nailing the fundamentals: your billing, your support, how fast you respond to customers. Yet most leadership teams skip right over this work to chase the shiny innovation. In this clip, Chuck walks through why companies get this backwards, why they obsess over innovation while customers leave over broken table stakes, and what it takes to get the fundamentals right. Because until you do, your competitive advantage doesn't matter. Dr. Chuck Bamford is the Managing Partner at Bamford Associates and an adjunct professor of strategy at both Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and the University of Notre Dame's Mendoza College of Business. He's worked with more than 170 organizations to design and implement strategy that actually drives behavior, and he's the author of many books, including The Strategy Mindset 2.0. Connect with Chuck:LinkedInWebsite Resources mentioned:The Strategy Mindset 2.0: A Practical Guide to the Design and Implementation of Strategy Listen to the full episode:Strategy That Teams Actually Execute with Dr. Chuck Bamford Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Plenty of revenue leaders are watching good people walk out the door after a single bad quarter, left wondering whether it's the market or the culture. In this clip, Rob Potter, CEO of Oomnitza and a veteran sales leader from RSA, EMC, and Symantec, breaks down the line between transactional leadership, which runs on threats and quotas, and transformative leadership, which builds the kind of pride and belief that survives a missed number. Get this wrong, and you're rebuilding your team every time the market turns. Rob Potter is CEO of Oomnitza, an enterprise technology management platform, and a venture partner at SYN Ventures. His path to the corner office ran through engineering and sales leadership roles at IBM, WRQ, Symantec, and RSA/EMC, where he worked alongside leaders including Art Coviello and Joe Tucci before running revenue organizations of his own. Connect with Rob:LinkedIn Resources mentioned:Force Management's Command of the Message®Force Management's Conversation Guide Listen to the full episode:Reps Who Skip the Story Lose the Deal with Rob Potter Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Sales teams have never had more research at their fingertips, and buyers still say reps don’t understand their business. The prep docs look great right up until someone asks how the customer actually makes money. Matt Fermino calls it Seller Deficit Disorder. He joins John McMahon and John Kaplan to break down how AI turns information into a crutch, how his leaders use call recordings to coach tone and likability, and why coachability matters more in hiring than where a candidate is today. Matt Fermino is the Chief Revenue Officer at Fable Security and previously held senior sales leadership roles at Astronomer, Starburst, and Cybereason.  Connect with Matt:LinkedIn Resources mentioned:Fable SecurityGong Key takeaways from this episode: 00:00 - Why one question from a Verizon executive turned an account handoff into a lesson that company never forgot03:29 - Why many CROs mistake a polished prep doc for real understanding of the customer08:43 - What leaders often overlook about the high-impact pain reps quietly steer away from in discovery16:48 - Matt’s perspective on how the same AI prompts leave 50 reps sounding exactly alike27:57 - A look inside the weekly call review habit that turned Matt’s reps into self-coachers46:49 - Why coaching through questions gets reps further than handing them the answer57:11 - The mistake many hiring managers make when they confuse taking feedback with being coachable Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

The next leadership opportunity is rarely earned by chasing a title, compensation package, or predetermined timeline. Mark Thurmond explains how consistent execution, continuous learning, and the ability to attract trusted people create career momentum that compounds over time, giving revenue leaders a more durable way to evaluate their next move. Mark Thurmond is Co-Chief Executive Officer of Tenable, where he oversees the company’s go-to-market functions across sales, marketing, customer success, professional services, and technical support. His career includes senior operating and sales leadership roles at EMC, RSA, Qlik, and Turbonomic. Connect with Mark:LinkedIn Listen to the full episode:The Hard Moments That Build a CEO with Mark Thurmond Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Enterprises have poured money into AI, and most of it is still doing research. The return comes when agents start taking action inside real systems, and that’s where most companies get stuck. If no one can say who authorized an agent to take a specific action, across specific systems, at a specific time, that agent never leaves the pilot. Arcade, fresh off a $60 million raise, was built to answer that question. Ben Sabrin, an open source pioneer who built early sales teams at JBoss and MongoDB, leads its go-to-market. He explains what it takes to sell a category this new, why repeatability has to come before scale, and how he runs his own sales team on AI. Ben Sabrin is the GTM Lead at Arcade.dev and a former CRO at ngrok and ScaleFT who has spent more than 20 years building early sales teams at companies including JBoss, MongoDB, and Okta. Connect with Ben:LinkedInArcade Resources mentioned:Wall Street Journal article on Arcade’s $60M to Secure AI AgentsThe Sales Learning Curve, Mark Leslie and Charles Holloway, Harvard Business ReviewSPIN Selling by Neil RackhamReo.DevSumbleLemlist Key takeaways from this episode:00:00 - Why an AI agent has to be taught the shaky finger a human feels before pressing delete all.03:19 - The one question every enterprise has to answer before an AI agent is trusted to act.12:40 - What leaders often overlook about selling into a platform shift, and why asking buyers to rebuild their governance would have been dead on arrival.23:00 - A look inside the week Arcade nearly launched a rival to MCP, and the promise OpenAI asked for first.27:52 - What it really takes to hire sellers when your product does nothing until someone builds on top of it.42:37 - Why scaling a sales team before repeatability quietly sets the CRO up to fail.44:29 - Ben Sabrin’s perspective on letting AI coach his reps, and the pricing model he built with Claude in a single day. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Strong technology alone does not earn access to a hyperscaler. Partner leaders must understand the company’s internal products, supply dependencies, power structure, and competing priorities before they can build an agreement that gains support. In this segment, Alan Chhabra explains how Cerebras aligned its offering with AWS Trainium, why complementary architectures can overcome internal resistance, and how political judgment and organizational mapping help leaders build champions inside complex partner accounts. Alan Chhabra is the Executive Vice President of Worldwide Partnerships at Cerebras Systems, where he leads global partner expansion across hyperscalers and the broader AI ecosystem. He previously spent nearly a decade building MongoDB’s global partner network and held senior leadership roles at BMC Software. Connect with Alan:LinkedIn Other Revenue Builders episodes with Alan:The Ideal Partnership with Alan Chhabra Listen to the full episode:Why Partner Leaders Must Master the AI Landscape with Alan Chhabra Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Most sales leaders coach the outer game: pipeline, routing plans, pricing, KPIs. That’s maybe 15 percent of performance. The rest sits under the surface in self-doubt, fear of other people’s opinions, and the stories reps tell themselves about who they are. Collin Henderson was a two-sport Division I athlete who developed a stutter at 11 and once pre-recorded his answers to a pharma sales evaluation, so he knows what happens when that layer goes untrained. In this one, he breaks down why talent plus skill minus internal interference equals execution, and walks through the three-step influence system from his book The Oz Method. Collin Henderson is a mental performance coach, keynote speaker, and founder of Master Your Mindset, LLC who has trained teams at Nike, Amazon, Microsoft, and Salesforce, and shares how to connect with him and get his new book, The Oz Method, at the end of the episode. Connect with Collin:LinkedInInstagramWebsite Resources mentioned:The Oz Method by Collin HendersonThe Brain That Changes Itself by Norman DoidgeThe Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der KolkPsycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell MaltzPositive Intelligence by Shirzad ChamineEmotional Agility by Susan DavidBuilding a StoryBrand by Donald MillerToastmasters International Key takeaways from this episode:00:00 - Why leaders who only coach the business side are training two of the three things that drive performance.05:24 - The equation Collin uses to explain execution, and the one variable most sales organizations never train.10:28 - A look inside the stutter Collin hid from teammates, managers, and customers for more than a decade.21:22 - What it really takes to spot the fear holding you back when you can’t name it yet.37:34 - Why worrying about your next line quietly pulls you out of the customer conversation.49:03 - Collin’s perspective on why the first step of influence takes the pressure to perform off the seller.1:01:00 - What leaders often overlook about storytelling, and how a buyer’s own words make a story stick. Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Pressure often takes over before a leader realizes it. In this segment, former professional hockey coach and mental performance coach Greg Poss explains how shallow breathing, frustration, and blame can reveal a shift into what he calls a lower-brain state. He shares a simple breathing practice for restoring focus, outlines the structure behind his 21-day training program, and explains why accountability begins with asking what needs to change in your own execution. Greg Poss spent decades coaching professional hockey in the United States and Europe, including leading the Mannheim Eagles to a championship and coaching the German national team. He now works with athletes, coaches, and business leaders to strengthen mental resilience and improve performance under pressure. Connect with Greg:LinkedInWebsite Resources mentioned:The Peter Attia Drive Podcast, Ep. #399 ‒ The evolution of Alzheimer's disease and dementia care: how early detection, personalized treatment, new therapies, and a multimodal approach are changing the landscape | Gayatri Devi, M.D.Greg Poss's 21-Day Brain Training Program Other Revenue Builders appearances:”The Most Important Reward Is The Process” with Greg Poss Listen to the full episode:Training for Pressure with Greg Poss Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management

Many leaders spend their careers chasing a scoreboard someone else set. It works until the how stops working, and nobody ever trained them on the why. This conversation picks up our Rethinking Success series dissecting the definition of success and failure for yourself while inviting real risk into your life. John McMahon connects a study of high school valedictorians to the sellers who win complex enterprise deals, and John Kaplan opens up about how fear of failure shaped his own path. Doug Holladay explains why the people who embrace setbacks build the most, and how leaders can start examining their own story before a crisis forces it. Doug Holladay is the founder & CEO of PathNorth, a Georgetown MBA professor, a former Goldman Sachs senior officer and White House Special Ambassador, and the author of Rethinking Success: Eight Essential Practices for Finding Meaning in Work and Life. Connect with Doug:LinkedInWebsite Resources mentioned:Rethinking Success by Doug HolladayLives of Promise by Karen ArnoldThe Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon and Brent AdamsonSwagger by Jimmy Johnson Cradles of Eminence by Victor and Mildred GoertzelJohannes Haushofer's CV of FailuresDie Broke by Stephen Pollan and Mark LevineEpisodes mentioned:Forgiveness as a Leadership Advantage with Doug Holladay, Author of Rethinking Success Key takeaways from this episode:00:00 - Why the most accomplished parents shield their kids from the exact hardship that made them great06:43 - What leaders often overlook about the scoreboard they never chose to play to19:13 - Why straight-A valedictorians so rarely become the standouts in their field27:27 - John McMahon's perspective on which seller profile wins long enterprise deals, and which one quietly falls behind33:13 - A look inside the 1962 study of 400 eminent people and the thread most of them shared46:59 - The mistake many leaders make when they call a meeting to find answers after losing a big client54:08 - What it really takes to know which version of yourself shows up each morning Hosted by five-time CRO John McMahon and Force Management Co-Founder John Kaplan, the Revenue Builders podcast goes behind the scenes with the sales leaders who have been there, done that, and seen the results.  This show is brought to you by Force Management. We help companies improve sales performance, executing their growth strategy at the point of sale.  Connect with Us: LinkedInYouTubeForce Management