The Rules That Backfire

Sale price is not profit. Eugene examines the gap between tomorrow’s construction costs and values supported by today’s market, the effect of delays on returns, and how to work backward from a completed project’s value to the land. A Bellevue project’s approval, appeal and lawsuit illustrate why time can change the economics. For owners, the choices include investigating feasibility, partnering, selling, or waiting rather than forcing a project that does not pencil. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A building can follow its written rules and still leave its owners carrying an unfair share of the cost.Condo and co-op consultant Mark Foley joins Eugene Gershman to examine what developers leave behind after the units are sold: governing documents, renovation controls, maintenance expectations, and a board that has to make the building work. Mark describes a co-op conversion in which the developer retained an apartment with a disproportionately small share allocation, shifting the ongoing burden toward other residents.The conversation moves from that imbalance to everyday failures that become expensive: unapproved plumbing, dryers vented into ceilings, leaking windows patched without fixing the underlying problem, and rules enforced differently for board members and everyone else. Eugene brings the developer's perspective on construction documentation, water intrusion, and the limits of relying on insurance to solve a construction defect.Mark also explains why a board needs room to adapt its rules without making major changes too easy, and why direct communication can prevent residents from filling an information gap with their own explanations. These are accounts of particular buildings and professional experiences, rather than universal legal or insurance rules.Guest BioMark Foley is president and co-founder of The Folson Group, a New York City consultancy serving co-op and condominium boards. His work includes board education, financial review, cost reduction, capital-project coordination, and support with property-management searches. During the interview, Mark describes his experience as president of his own co-op board and explains why volunteer directors need clear systems and practical support.Episode Highlights and Chapters0:00 — Opening highlightsThree guest-led moments introduce unequal cost allocations, renovation oversight and board control.0:50 — Land to Legacy introThe approved show introduction.1:01 — The developer and the future boardEugene frames the practical friction between a condominium developer and the owners who will govern the building.2:21 — Support for volunteer board membersMark explains how consulting support differs from property management and helps directors coordinate decisions and capital work.4:58 — Governance starts with clear processesThe conversation connects governing documents, transparency, communication and equal treatment of residents.7:15 — Who carries the shared costsMark distinguishes condominium ownership from co-op shares before describing a developer-retained apartment with an unusually small allocation.11:23 — Maintenance and moisture problemsFreeze-thaw cycles, blocked drains and surface repairs illustrate why the building needs a workable maintenance process.12:35 — Subscribe and join the conversationA short reminder between the completed maintenance discussion and the next chapter.13:01 — Developer control before turnoverEugene opens a new question about what developers should prepare while they still control the board, leading into renovation safeguards.13:47 — Renovations and qualified tradesMark describes contractor qualifications and insurance, then gives examples of unauthorized work that affected the building.18:00 — Floors, noise and consistent approvalFloor coverings and unapproved equipment bring renovation rules and enforcement into residents’ daily lives.22:38 — Why house rules keep growingMark discusses new problems that prompt new restrictions and the limits of anticipating every future dispute.24:31 — Voting thresholds and major changesMark discusses major governance changes and the participation problems his own building encountered. These are building-specific examples.27:36 — Construction failures that last for yearsFacade anchors, waterproofing and insulation lead into Eugene’s account of construction quality and insurance requirements.31:55 — A retail dispute during subway constructionA sidewalk obstruction becomes the basis for a claim; Mark recounts how the building and insurer responded.34:49 — Explain disruptions before rumors formMark closes with direct resident communication, practical expectations and the cost of letting secondhand explanations spread.36:00 — Connect with MarkMark identifies his service area, The Folson Group website and direct phone contact.36:34 — Land to Legacy outroThe approved show closing.Contact InformationGuest- The Folson Group: https://www.thefolsongroup.com/- Phone, as stated by Mark in the interview: 212-472-0114Episode lessonsPractical lessons from this conversation include examining shared-cost allocations, setting renovation controls, and explaining disruptions before they become disputes.Development resourcesGet the free GIS Feasibility Study ChecklistConsidering development? Before you spend on design, use GIS's free Feasibility Study Checklist to organize the basic property facts, identify questions that still need answers, and prepare for a more useful conversation with your development team.- Eugene Gershman: https://egershman.com/- GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/- Land to Legacy: https://egershman.com/podcast/- Apply to be a guest: https://egershman.com/podcast/guest/This conversation is for general information about condominium and co-op development, governance, and building operations. It does not constitute legal, investment, financing, construction, or insurance advice. Requirements depend on the building, governing documents, jurisdiction, and applicable policy. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Your land offer may be getting sorted over a trash can before anyone reads it.Jessey Kwong, co-founder of Pebble, joins Eugene Gershman to examine what happens between identifying a property and getting its owner to talk. His central question is practical: does the outreach create an actual acquisition, or merely a response? He shares observations from campaigns passing through Pebble and explains why the size of a postcard, the specificity of its message, and an image of the recipient’s own property can change the conversation.Eugene brings the developer’s problem to the discussion: filtering a market by parcel size, zoning, length of ownership, and equity can produce a targeted list, but a list alone does not build trust. Jessey describes how to turn those property facts into a relevant message, explain what you can offer beyond cash, and give the owner a reason to keep the card until the timing is right.The conversation also separates cold outreach from following up with someone who has already responded. Jessey discusses repeat mailing, acknowledges uncertainty in the frequency data, and explains why familiarity with a small area can matter more than the size of a mailing list. He explicitly advises excluding people who have asked not to be mailed again.The campaign figures are Jessey’s reported observations, rather than independently audited results or a promise of performance. The interview was recorded October 1, 2026; product pricing and mailing rates discussed reflect that conversation and may change.This is an unpaid conversation prompted by curiosity about the service. Eugene has not tried or endorsed it. Viewers should do their own research, read reviews and compare alternatives.Guest BioJessey Kwong is a co-founder of Pebble, a platform for land acquisition teams. His background includes design, digital marketing, and real estate investing. In the interview, he describes starting as a land investor and building tools to streamline property outreach. He also hosts conversations with investors through Pebble’s podcast.Episode Highlights and Chapters00:00 — Why land offers get ignoredGuest-led excerpts introduce the unopened-envelope problem, recognizable property imagery and the trust question behind an offer.01:04 — Land to Legacy introductionThe show introduction.01:16 — Unpaid conversation and endorsement disclaimerEugene explains that the episode is unpaid, he has not used or endorsed the service, and listeners should research independent reviews and competitors.01:50 — Finding land to acquireEugene frames the gap between development execution and finding a property worth pursuing.02:23 — From land investor to outreach platformJessey describes his land-acquisition background and why he built tools to connect outreach with the resulting conversations.04:21 — Why direct mail deserves a closer lookEugene questions direct mail after his own disappointing experience; Jessey argues for examining the message and outcome rather than treating all mail alike.06:34 — Postcard formats and completed acquisitionsLetters, larger postcards and 4×6 cards are compared. Jessey distinguishes reported acquisitions from response rates and connects limited space with clearer copy.08:58 — Choose the property list before the cardThe discussion separates parcel-data filters and local market selection from the outreach system used after a list is chosen.11:16 — Make the message specific to the ownerOwner names, acreage and relevant property facts turn a generic approach into an identifiable proposition.13:14 — Use an image of the actual parcelJessey explains owner-recognizable imagery and shares his reported acquired-deal comparison, rather than a universal performance guarantee.15:16 — Subscribe and join the conversationEugene asks listeners to subscribe and leave a comment to help others discover Land to Legacy.15:58 — Offer a useful solution beyond cashThe message should address an owner’s real questions, explain the sender’s role and establish credibility instead of relying on a cash-offer slogan.17:55 — Repeat mailing and response patternsJessey discusses second and third outreach rounds and the uncertainty and selection bias in later campaign observations.20:32 — How often should a campaign repeatEugene asks for a practical interval; Jessey acknowledges that he does not have an exact frequency figure and explains the six-month window he has observed.20:57 — Cold outreach versus an existing conversationFollowing up after an owner responds is distinguished from mailing someone who has never engaged.21:47 — Market knowledge changes mailing volumeRural investing experience and developers focused on small pockets illustrate why there is no reliable universal mail-volume answer.24:28 — Turn a filtered list into tracked outreachEugene describes parcel filters for size, zoning, ownership tenure and equity; Jessey connects the data to customized mail and tracked responses.27:04 — Platform and postage costs as recordedJessey discusses platform features and October 1, 2026 pricing. Listeners should check current product and mailing rates.28:45 — Where to find Pebble and learn moreThe conversation closes with Pebble’s website, demo and podcast resources.29:26 — ClosingThe Land to Legacy ending.Contact InformationPebble · Book a Pebble demo · Pebble podcastGet the free GIS Feasibility Study ChecklistConsidering development? Before you spend on design, use GIS’s free Feasibility Study Checklist to organize the basic property facts, identify questions that still need answers, and prepare for a more useful conversation with your development team.Eugene Gershman · GIS Companies · Land to Legacy · Apply to be a guest Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A $15,000 house can still become a $200,000 project. Jerry Larkowski bought two Little Rock houses marked for demolition, then faced missing building systems, delayed materials, borrowed-money pressure, and a second project that sold at a loss. The purchase price was only the beginning of the decision.Jerry joins Eugene Gershman to explain why he favors rebuilding in established neighborhoods, how proximity to a medical campus shaped his rental strategy, and why the condition of the roof and foundation mattered before reconstruction began. He describes changing the first property's finishes and holding it as an Airbnb when the original plan became less attractive.The conversation moves from individual houses to the numbers behind development: carrying costs, rents that fail to support new construction, vacancy exposure in small multifamily properties, and the difference between improving a single house and improving an adjoining group of properties. Jerry and Eugene also compare their experiences with local approvals and discuss Jerry's expectations for data-center-related housing demand in central Arkansas.Guest BioJerry Larkowski is an attorney, real estate broker, and property investor in central Arkansas who operates under The Larkowski Group at ESQ. Realty Group. Born in Chicago and raised in Arkansas, he says his education, work, homes, and property investments have largely remained within 30 miles of Little Rock.In the interview, Jerry describes more than 35 years as an attorney, including 25 years in trial practice, followed by work as in-house counsel and a transition into full-time real estate sales. His clients include investors and owner-occupant buyers, and his own projects include restoring small houses in established Little Rock neighborhoods.Episode Highlights and Chapters00:00 Episode highlightsA preview of the reconstruction decisions, costs, and development questions ahead.01:03 Land to Legacy introductionEugene introduces Real Estate Development: Land to Legacy.01:14 Jerry Larkowski and central ArkansasJerry traces his move from trial law to real estate and the value of working in a familiar market.04:10 What drives the Little Rock marketJerry describes the institutions, employment, and location advantages he sees supporting local housing demand.08:55 Redevelopment versus new subdivisionsExisting neighborhoods offer a different starting point from subdivisions that require new infrastructure.10:56 Rebuilding houses marked for demolitionTwo purchases at $15,000 and $20,000 lead to a discussion of roofs, foundations, missing systems, and the scope of reconstruction.15:50 Reconstruction costs and the Airbnb decisionMaterial delays and borrowing pressure change the first project's budget, finishes, and eventual use as an Airbnb.18:11 The second project and its lossJerry explains the second property's sale at a loss and his reasons for considering the adjoining properties and rear access together.20:14 Borrowing costs and development mathDebt costs, rental returns, and a small house that found a buyer illustrate the importance of testing the full project economics.22:14 When new construction does not pencilEugene describes projects where construction costs outpace achievable rents, even with a very low land basis.24:16 Fourplexes and vacancy riskJerry explains his interest in small multifamily properties and spreading rental income across several units.26:48 Permits, inspections and local timelinesTheir local experiences show how inspections, rezoning, infrastructure, and review calendars can affect the schedule.30:02 Data centers and housing demandJerry shares his expectations for data centers and housing demand; the discussion reflects his outlook at recording.32:58 Where to find JerryJerry shares his business identity and direct email address.33:52 ClosingThe closing Land to Legacy sequence.Contact InformationGuestThe Larkowski Group official websiteJerry Larkowski LinkedInJerry direct emailDevelopment resourcesGet the free GIS Feasibility Study ChecklistConsidering development? Before you spend on design, use GIS's free Feasibility Study Checklist to organize the basic property facts, identify questions that still need answers, and prepare for a more useful conversation with your development team.Eugene GershmanLand to LegacyBe a guestGIS Companies Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

OVERVIEWLisa Wright, founder of Landings, joins Eugene Gershman on Land to Legacy to make the case that your rural land may have just become a fuel stop. While most of advanced air mobility focuses on urban air taxis, Lisa is building North America's largest planned network of vertiports — landing and charging sites for electric aircraft — in the rural markets where the density of use cases, not population, drives demand. The conversation covers why regulators and manufacturers are converging on a 'rules-first' safety culture, how a rural-vertiport network could connect Upstate New York to LaGuardia-style hubs, and the energy strategy choices between solar colocation and waiting for grid connection at fast-charging sites. If you own rural land, the podcast makes a single practical case: this is a window to position your property as revenue-generating infrastructure for the electric aircraft era, before aviation reaches critical mass.GUEST BIOLisa Wright is redefining the future of aviation infrastructure by focusing on the 80% of America that urban air mobility developers are overlooking. As founder of Landings, she is building North America's largest network of vertiports: landing and charging sites for electric aircraft, strategically positioned across rural markets where the density of use cases, not population, drives demand. With a background in architecture and energy management, Lisa brings a land-first perspective to advanced air mobility. While competitors race to launch urban air taxis, Landings is securing a planned network of 2,000+ rural sites across North America, from agricultural hubs to medical facilities to last-mile logistics centers, positioning vertiports as revenue-generating amenities for the electric future. Its first sites are advancing in New York's Mohawk Valley. As a manufacturer-agnostic developer, Landings builds infrastructure that any manufacturer's aircraft can use, giving it a neutral position as the major eVTOL makers race toward certification. Featured on Bloomberg Businessweek Daily and actively raising capital, Lisa is pioneering Rural Air Mobility as a distinct category, arguing that rural markets offer earlier adoption pathways through emergency response, agricultural services, and last-mile logistics, where infrastructure needs to be ready before aviation reaches critical mass.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS AND CHAPTERS0:00 — Highlights reel1:23 — Intro reel1:34 — Lisa Wright interview — main conversation36:11 — Outro reelCONTACT INFORMATIONGuest website: landings.coHost and show links:- Eugene Gershman: https://egershman.com/- Land to Legacy hub: https://egershman.com/podcast/- GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/- Guest application: https://egershman.com/podcast/guest/Get the free GIS Feasibility Study Checklist: https://giscompanies.co/development/feasibility-study/Considering development? Before you spend on design, use GIS's free Feasibility Study Checklist to organize the basic property facts, identify questions that still need answers, and prepare for a more useful conversation with your development team. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

OverviewWhat does a $47,000 architectural fee actually buy? Tim Derrington breaks down a proposal for a 17,000-square-foot gym in an existing strip center: $7,000 for design and code-compliance work, and $40,000 for coordination and documentation. The example explains why the initial concept can account for a small part of the work required to deliver a buildable project.Tim joins Eugene Gershman to examine what owners should expect from an architect, how to evaluate a design team's construction knowledge, and why a convincing rendering leaves important questions unanswered. They discuss the responsibilities behind a complete set of plans, the limits of early cost estimates, and the money owners must spend to reduce uncertainty before construction.The conversation moves through real project problems, including an engineering handoff that delayed construction and unexpected conditions beneath an existing building. Tim and Eugene examine how architects, civil engineers, structural engineers, and builders need to coordinate, and why the professional who leads the team should depend on the project.They also discuss defining the development program before design, balancing function with the experience of a space, and the benefits and frustrations of building information modeling. Tim explains where he currently finds AI useful and closes with questions owners can ask to compare architectural proposals, understand exclusions, and choose a team they can trust.Guest BioTim Derrington is the founding principal of Derrington Building Studio, an Austin-based architecture practice he founded in 2011. He trained at the University of Houston and is licensed to practice architecture in Texas.The studio designs commercial interiors, adaptive reuse projects, and places for gathering, fitness, and recreation across Texas. In the conversation, Tim describes the firm's work in Austin, Houston, and San Antonio, including climbing destinations, retail spaces, and wedding venues. His perspective connects design intent with the coordination and construction details needed to carry it through.Episode Highlights and Chapters00:00 — Episode previewA preview of the conversation on architectural fees, hidden building conditions, verifying design details, and spending money to understand a project's feasibility.00:58 — Land to Legacy introThe Land to Legacy introduction.01:09 — Meet Tim DerringtonEugene introduces Tim and the questions developers bring to the relationship between architectural design, construction, and cost.01:35 — What makes a good architectTim explains the combination of vision, coordination, and construction knowledge an owner should expect from an architectural team.05:21 — Why early construction estimates remain uncertainA concept can support a rough budget, but the materials, assemblies, and documentation needed for firmer pricing take time and money to develop.08:38 — Check an architect’s work with builders and clientsTim recommends speaking with previous clients and builders to learn how an architect's drawings and working relationships perform during construction.09:55 — Knowing how the design will be builtTim describes how his team researches assemblies, checks details with specialists, and tests whether a design can be built before treating it as resolved.14:01 — Construction mistakes and hidden site conditionsProject stories show how coordination failures and unexpected existing conditions can interrupt construction. Tim also discusses taking responsibility for mistakes and bringing design disciplines together early.25:23 — Which professional should lead the teamThe appropriate lead depends on the building and its purpose. Eugene and Tim compare the priorities of architects, civil engineers, and structural engineers.28:22 — Define feasibility and the program before designEugene explains how land-use research, a preliminary budget, market demand, and a potential exit inform the program given to the architect.30:06 — Designing for function and experienceThe discussion moves beyond attractive renderings to how spaces work for people, what problem a design solves, and how function and experience influence each other.36:46 — Architectural software and documentationTim describes the studio's progression from early sketches to Archicad and three-dimensional modeling, including the time required to manage and revise detailed building information.41:06 — Where AI helps in Tim’s practiceTim discusses early concepts, text and contract review, and checking his own code research. Eugene shares an example of using AI for preliminary site-planning options.45:19 — What an architect’s fee actually coversA proposed $47,000 fee for a 17,000-square-foot gym illustrates the difference between initial design work and the larger coordination and documentation effort.49:11 — Compare scope before comparing feesTim recommends asking what each proposal includes, who handles permitting and consultant coordination, and how revisions and design development will be managed.51:54 — Tim’s practice and closing thanksTim describes Derrington Building Studio's commercial work across Texas and shares where listeners can learn more and contact the studio.52:39 — Land to Legacy outroThe Land to Legacy closing.Contact InformationConnect with Tim DerringtonDerrington Building Studio: https://www.derrington.co/Contact Tim through the studio: https://www.derrington.co/contact/About Tim and the studio: https://www.derrington.co/about/Derrington Building Studio on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/derrington.building.studio/Episode lessonsLessons from Why Architects Cost So Much brings together six practical lessons from the conversation, each with an episode example and what it means for your project.Get the episode lessonsConsidering development?Before you spend on design, use GIS's free Feasibility Study Checklist to organize the basic property facts, identify questions that still need answers, and prepare for a more useful conversation with your development team.Get the free GIS Feasibility Study ChecklistEugene Gershman and Land to LegacyEugene Gershman: https://egershman.com/Land to Legacy episodes: https://egershman.com/podcast/Eugene Gershman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenegershman/GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/Apply to be a guest on Land to Legacy: https://egershman.com/podcast/guest/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A homeowner can be legally allowed to build an ADU and still be better off leaving the backyard alone.Babak Mortazavi joins Eugene Gershman to examine the economics, permitting, design, financing, and neighborhood tradeoffs behind accessory dwelling units.The conversation moves from the reason ADUs have become a major housing strategy to the questions that decide whether a project works: purpose, feasibility, soft costs, hard costs, financing, parking, contractor pricing, prefab delivery, and the homeowner's tolerance for risk.Guest BioBabak Mortazavi is the founder and CEO of LADU, a Los Angeles-based ADU design-build company.LADU's official company profile says Babak has more than 15 years of experience in commercial and residential real estate development and founded the company to make ADU projects easier for Los Angeles property owners to plan and execute.Episode Highlights and Chapters00:00 Highlights on pricing transparency, homeowner risk, permitting, and budget discipline.00:57 Land to Legacy introduction.01:08 Eugene introduces Babak and the role of accessory dwelling units in the housing discussion.01:51 Babak explains why property owners have become an important part of California's housing strategy.08:27 The conversation breaks down LADU's design, permitting, engineering, and construction platform.11:43 Babak explains why the first question is whether the ADU is for family, income, or another specific goal.16:38 Babak discusses construction pricing and why contractors should price the project instead of the customer.19:38 Trust, reputation, and the high cost of failure in a homeowner's first major project.21:28 A Coastal Commission delay becomes a lesson in reading the fine print and managing expectations.25:24 Standardized lot patterns, repeatable designs, and the move toward a smaller menu of proven options.26:55 Babak explains the promise and limits of prefab, including delivery, inspection, financing, and panelized construction.33:04 Feasibility, stamped plans, contractor estimates, and why an ADU budget can expand like a wedding budget.36:51 Eugene and Babak discuss neighborhood resistance, architectural fit, density, and the second-order effects of housing change.45:35 Pocket neighborhoods, tenants in common, and alternative paths to homeownership.47:43 How to contact Babak and request an LADU consultation.Contact InformationBabak MortazaviLADU: https://www.ladu.co/Free LADU consultation: https://www.ladu.co/free-consultationInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dreamladu/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/babak-mortazavi-56966a254/Host: Eugene Gershman / GIS CompaniesGIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/Eugene Gershman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenegershman/Download the Feasibility Study Checklist to assess your project's potential: https://giscompanies.co/development/feasibility-study/Interested in being a guest on the podcast: https://giscompanies.co/podcast/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The time to protect a project is before a claim arrives. Attorney and Certified Financial Planner™ practitioner Matthew Meredith joins Eugene Gershman to explain how real estate owners can reduce avoidable exposure before they buy, develop, lease, or refinance property. The conversation covers revocable and irrevocable trusts, succession planning, trust-owned businesses, holding companies, LLC structures, corporate governance, personal guarantees, due-on-sale clauses, anonymous ownership, and the importance of separating operations from assets. Matthew also explains how these structures can grow with a portfolio and where lenders, taxes, and ongoing administration change the calculation. Guest Bio Matthew Meredith, Esq., CFP®, is the founder of Meridian Legal Advisors, a law firm focused on estate planning, tax strategy, and asset protection. He brings more than 20 years of financial-services experience to work that coordinates legal, tax, business, and financial planning for families, entrepreneurs, professionals, and real estate investors. Episode Highlights and Chapters 00:00 Highlights 01:22 Land to Legacy intro 01:33 Matthew Meredith joins Land to Legacy 02:14 From wealth management to tax law 04:18 What owners should address before a project begins 05:58 Why protection must precede a claim 06:45 Revocable and irrevocable trusts 11:06 Trust-owned businesses and holding companies 13:50 Separating operations from real estate assets 16:45 Hub-and-spoke ownership for multiple properties 20:03 Scaling the structure without separate tax returns for every LLC 25:26 The limits of asset protection when a loan has a personal guarantee 28:02 Anonymous ownership and litigation deterrence 30:31 Domestic and offshore asset-protection trusts 37:52 How trust structures affect real estate financing 40:41 Due-on-sale clauses and structuring before a transfer 42:35 Subject-to transactions and lender risk 44:42 DSCR loans, rental income, and real estate opportunity 46:09 How to connect with Matthew Contact Information Matthew Meredith / Meridian Legal Advisors Website: https://meridianlg.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewrmeredith Eugene Gershman / GIS Companies GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/ Eugene Gershman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenegershman/ Download the free Feasibility Study Checklist: https://giscompanies.co/development/feasibility-study/ Apply to be a guest on Land to Legacy: https://giscompanies.co/podcast/ This conversation is for general information and does not constitute legal, tax, investment, lending, or insurance advice. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What do you do when a completed project no longer sells for the price you underwrote? Kevin “KAYR” Robinson and Eugene Gershman examine the decision that can determine whether a market downturn becomes a manageable delay or a permanent loss: accept the lower price, pivot to a rental hold, or keep enough cash available to wait. KAYR traces his path from moving about 18 times before age 18 to building a portfolio of more than 160 rental units. He explains the three forms of capital behind his first purchases—intellectual, social, and financial—and why he grew from one rental in 2009 to 105 units by 2020 at his own pace. The conversation covers personal-name and LLC ownership, cash-on-cash return, downside scenarios, market and neighborhood filters, occupancy, cash-out refinancing, investor expectations, and reserve funds. KAYR also breaks down the strong deals he lost over relatively small negotiation gaps and the long-term cost of letting a good opportunity slip away. Guest Bio Kevin “KAYR” Robinson is a USA TODAY best-selling author, entrepreneur, real estate investor, speaker, and consultant focused on leadership, discipline, decision-making, and long-term growth. Raised in West Philadelphia, he describes moving about 18 times before adulthood, later working at Goldman Sachs, and building a portfolio of more than 160 rental units. His memoir, Can’t Break Me, examines how discipline, structured execution, and long-term thinking can turn unstable beginnings into durable ownership. Episode Highlights and Chapters 00:00 Highlights 01:09 Kevin “KAYR” Robinson joins Land to Legacy 01:49 From West Philadelphia to 160+ rental units 02:50 How real estate entered the picture 05:11 From knucklehead to valedictorian 08:03 The three forms of capital behind a first purchase 10:27 Growing from one rental to 105 11:26 Buying personally versus through an LLC 14:11 Conservative underwriting and cash-on-cash return 20:09 Market, neighborhood, and zip-code filters 21:41 Eugene’s development return benchmark 25:26 What if the project does not sell? 27:30 Reserves, patience, and downside protection 31:41 The $5,000 mistake that cost much more 34:43 Your past does not define your future 35:33 Can’t Break Me and where to find KAYR Contact Information Kevin “KAYR” Robinson Website: https://www.kayrmotivates.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krobins2/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kayrmotivates/ Book and free prologue: https://www.kayrmotivates.com/book/ Eugene Gershman / GIS Companies GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/ Eugene Gershman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugenegershman/ Download the free Feasibility Study Checklist: https://giscompanies.co/development/feasibility-study/ Apply to be a guest on Land to Legacy: https://giscompanies.co/podcast/ This conversation is for general information and does not constitute investment, legal, tax, lending, or insurance advice. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Overview A simple variance can turn into a costly appeal when the board, staff, or neighbors do not want the project. Kelley Morris Salvatore joins Eugene Gershman to explain where developers get into trouble with land-use approvals, why the right application strategy matters before anything is filed, and how municipal relationships can shape the outcome of a project. The conversation covers neighbor opposition, zoning analysis, planning-board dynamics, peer reviews, AI-assisted code research, affordable-housing density tradeoffs, and the practical difference between saving money and creating avoidable risk. Guest Bio Kelley Morris Salvatore is a partner at DarrowEverett and works in land use, municipal law, administrative appeals, business litigation, and energy and infrastructure matters. She is licensed to practice in Rhode Island and Massachusetts and has practiced for about 30 years, mostly in Rhode Island. Kelley also serves as a municipal attorney and town solicitor, and she has worked as special counsel in land-use matters. Her experience gives her perspective from multiple sides of the land-use process, including developers, municipal staff, boards, neighbors, and public officials. Episode Highlights and Chapters 00:00 Eugene introduces the conversation around land use, laws, regulations, and the issues developers can face during the approval process. 00:38 Kelley introduces her legal background, municipal work, and experience on multiple sides of land-use matters. 02:37 Kelley explains when a developer may need land-use counsel and why early involvement can prevent a weak application from becoming an expensive problem. 04:49 The conversation turns to why calling a lawyer only after there is a problem can cost more than getting the application right at the beginning. 05:23 Kelley explains why the type of application matters, including special use permits, variances, waivers, and zoning analysis. 06:22 Eugene describes why a general call to the city is often less effective than researching the code and asking a specific, routed question. 08:46 Kelley shares examples of projects that became harder because of local opposition, board behavior, or a town's resistance to the applicant. 11:05 Eugene describes a Bellevue project where early neighbor outreach still turned into a costly appeal and prescriptive-easement claim. 14:12 Kelley explains why she still recommends early neighbor engagement on larger projects and why reasonable comments can sometimes be solved before they become appeals. 15:28 Kelley discusses peer reviews and why traffic and drainage studies can help developers answer common public objections. 18:18 Eugene and Kelley discuss how AI is changing code research, legal research, and document review while still requiring professional judgment. 22:32 The conversation covers the risk of relying on outdated or incomplete online codes, especially when local ordinances are not fully codified. 25:29 Kelley explains why housing work has increased in New England and why affordable-housing requirements can create financial pressure for developers. 29:51 Eugene explains why rising costs, high interest rates, and weaker resale values are forcing developers to make harder choices on consultant budgets. 30:22 Kelley explains why planner support can matter even when a developer is trying to save money. 31:48 Kelley closes with advice on administrative approvals and avoiding unnecessary public-meeting risk when a project can qualify for staff-level review. Contact Information Kelley Morris Salvatore DarrowEverett Email: [email protected] Website: https://darroweverett.com/ Profile: https://darroweverett.com/lawyers/kelley-morris-salvatore/ Host: Eugene Gershman / GIS Companies GIS Companies: https://giscompanies.co/ Download the Feasibility Study Checklist to assess your project's potential: https://giscompanies.co/development/feasibility-study/ Interested in being a guest on the podcast: https://giscompanies.co/podcast/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.