Protrusive Dental Podcast podcast

Occlusograms are Lying To Us! Don’t Trust the ‘Heat Map’ – PDP247

0:00
44:59
15 Sekunden vorwärts
15 Sekunden vorwärts
Ever had a patient swear their bite feels “off” - even though the articulating paper marks look perfect and you’ve adjusted everything twice over? Or maybe you’ve placed a beautiful quadrant of onlays, only to have them return saying, “these three teeth still feel proud.” If that sounds familiar, you’re not alone. In this episode, I’m joined (in my car, no less!) by Dr. Robert Kerstein, who was back in the UK to teach about digital occlusion and the power of the T-Scan and ‘disclusion time reduction therapy’. We dig into why a patient’s bite can still feel “off” even when everything looks right, how timing is just as important as force, and why splints and Botox don’t always solve TMD. Robert explains why micro-occlusion is the real game-changer, how scanners could mislead you, and why dentistry still clings to articulating paper. So if you’ve ever wondered why “perfect” cases still come back with bite complaints, or whether timing data can actually prevent fractures and headaches, this episode will give you plenty to chew on - pun intended. https://youtu.be/0lCAsjFhsXI Watch PDP247 on YouTube Need to Read it? Check out the Full Episode Transcript below! Key Takeaways: Micro-occlusion, not just “dots and lines,” is the real driver of patient comfort and long-term tooth health. T-Scan measures both force and timing, which scanners and articulating paper cannot capture. Many patients show signs of occlusal damage without symptoms. Disclusion Time Reduction (DTR) treats TMD neurologically without splints, Botox, or TENS. Relying on occlusograms alone for guiding reduction is risky. Dentists can reduce post-treatment complaints by balancing micro-occlusion with T-Scan. Adopting T-Scan requires proper training. CR can be a convenient reference point, but MIP works well in most cases if micro-occlusion is managed. Objective, repeatable data builds patient trust and provides medico-legal reassurance. Highlights of this episode: 00:00 Teaser 01:13 Intro 4:41 Protrusive Dental Pearl -  Removing a Temporarily Cemented Crown 06:39 Introduction 08:48 Global Training Footprint 09:32 What Robert Teaches (DTR & T-Scan) 09:55 Occlusion as Neurologic 10:33 Macro vs Micro-Occlusion 11:33 Neural Pathway 15:00 MIP vs CR Framing 16:48 Signs Without Symptoms 19:16 Silent Majority 20:08 Why Treat Asymptomatic Signs 20:50 Disclusion and MIP 22:28 Occlusogram Caveats 24:53 Midroll 28:14 Occlusogram Caveats 28:29 Why Occlusograms Mislead 29:21 Don’t Adjust From Color Alone 31:47 What Pressure/Timing Enable Clinically 33:02 Prosthetic Reality Check 34:46 Patient-Perceived Comfort 35:29 Why Isn’t T-Scan Everywhere? 36:29 Political Resistance 37:42 CR as Utility 38:18 MIP and Vertical Dimension. 39:48 Macro ≠ Micro 41:00 Material Longevity Benefits 41:57 T-Scan Training 42:58 Three Competencies to Master 44:20 Micro-Occlusion Rules 44:46 Outro If you want to get more clued up on TMD, tune into this episode for the latest insights and guidelines! PDP213 - TMD New Guidelines -  however be warned that the guidelines are contradictory to what Dr. Kerstein advises….ah the wonderful world of TMD!  #OcclusionTMDandSplints #OrthoRestorative This episode is eligible for 0.5 CE credit via the quiz on Protrusive Guidance. This episode meets GDC Outcomes A, C. AGD Subject Code: 250 – Clinical Dentistry (Occlusion/Restorative) Aim: to explore the role of micro-occlusion and timing in TMD and restorative success, highlighting how tools like T-Scan provide data that other tools cannot. This episode seeks to give dentists practical insights into diagnosing, preventing, and treating occlusal problems with greater accuracy. Dentists will be able to: Describe the role of micro-occlusion and disclusion time in TMD symptoms and tooth wear. Recognising the limitations of traditional methods of occlusion adjustment. Understand how objective occlusion data supports comfort, longevity of restorations, and preventive care. Click below for full episode transcript: Teaser: Pressure is a force over surface area. And when it gives us the red, the blue, yellow, it's not measuring the force, so it cannot tell us the pressure. So tell us about what the nuances of being careful with the occlusogram and where it fails in the face of something more sophisticated, like the T-scan. The essence of a scanning technology is that all the teeth are scanned with the patient's teeth apart. No one's biting. There's no forces captured. There's no contacts. There's no gathering of teeth banging together or rubbing around. So it completely is falsely representing. These colour coded occlusograms have no force information in them at all. Anyone who's used articulating paper, which most of us do, and the T-scan, you still mark the teeth with paper, but you choose the contacts to treat based on the data, not based on where the paper marks look. And very often, the most pressure points of contacts are small, scratchy little marks that dentistry says are light force, which you're completely wrong because again, the load is applied over area. So if you have a very small area, you have the potential for very high pressure. Jaz's Introduction:Protruserati, the occlusogram is lying to us. Does that sound familiar? Well, we welcome back again, Dr. Robert Kerstein. If you remember way back in episode 109, we made an episode called, "Articulating Paper Is Lying to Us," and you guys absolutely loved it because Arctic paper is lying to us. You should totally listen to that episode if you haven't already. And if you haven't, essentially the arctic paper marks you see on teeth are flawed in the sense that you can't look at a mark and accurately say that, oh yeah, that's more force, or that's less force, or that's hitting first. You don't get that data. And not only that, but you also get false positives when it comes to articulating paper. Now, similarly, I've got Robert Kerstein back again talking about the occlusogram. Now the occlusogram is that heat map you see when you do a scan, when you do an intraoral scan of a patient, upper arch, lower arch, and then you do the occlusion. Most modern scanners will give you some sort of a heat map of the occlusion and we call that an occlusogram. And we may all at the beginning make this mistake, this very simple error, that when you see red on the occlusogram that means high force. Well, we will absolutely and emphatically bust that myth today. You see the heat map or the occlusogram is just a measure of proximity. How close in space is that cusp to that fossa? And if it's very close, it's gonna be red. And if it's maybe a few microns away, it'll be a colder colour. Absolutely does not tell you how much force or timing or pressure, none of that stuff. Just contact proximity. So we must be careful in how we interpret that data. It would be misinformation to tell a patient that a certain tooth is having more load because of the colour. Hello Protruserati. I'm Jaz Gulati and welcome back to your favourite dental podcast. Today's guest is none other than Dr. Robert Kerstein. Rob Kerstein is like the godfather of digital occlusion. When I was in New Mexico a few months ago with Dr. Bobby Supple, he described Dr. Kerstein as the Einstein of occlusion, and it's an absolute pleasure to chat with him again. It's a different format of the podcast. We're driving, well, I'm driving, he's my passenger. And so one of the team members, when they were listening to this, they said, it's like carpool karaoke vibes. And don't worry, we will not start doing a little singing and dance in the middle of this episode, but something a bit different, a bit fresh. Me and Dr. Kerstein were on the way to some DTR training in the UK. DTR is Disclusion Time Reduction, essentially, if you listen to that episode that we did with Nick Yiannios. We talked about frictional dental hypersensitivity, and essentially lots of friction between the back teeth could cause your teeth to become sensitive. So this posterior dental friction is also implicated in TMD, thus resurfacing that old debate: is occlusion a causative factor of TMD? Now, we all know some CAMs and some reviews that suggest that occlusion has no relationship to TMD. Whereas my guest, Dr. Robert Kerstein, says that TMD is a neurological condition and has everything to do with occlusion, and particularly that muscular TMD group would greatly benefit from an occlusal adjustment or something to change about their occlusion, to reduce that sensory input and their noxious muscular spasms. And I saw all this freehand. I can't wait to share my experience of what I witnessed when Dr. Robert Kerstein came to my practice and I treated three patients. So I'll leave you on that teaser if you like, 'cause we have another episode coming with Dr. Jeremy Bliss talking all about occlusion, TMD and Disclusion Time Reduction, aka DTR. Dental PearlBut for now, let's enjoy this episode of occlusogram. And just before we join the main interview, I need to give you your Protrusive Dental Pearl. Every PDP episode, I'll give you a top tip that you can use right away. And today's one, like many pearls are, are from Dr. Mohammed Mozafari. Mohammed's one of the most selfless and caring and giving people on our Protrusive app community, always helping our colleagues. And today it was our good colleague Yazan. And just yesterday on the group, Yazan had a query. He's got these crowns, definitive crowns, temporarily cemented with TempBond. Now we all know of that scenario that it could have happened to you or a colleague, whereby you put these crowns in temporarily. Even some colleagues, they try in a crown, let's say a PFM crown without any cement, and they put the crown on and they just cannot take it off,

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