#23 - Honesty, inclusion, and self acceptance with Emily Arnold (Saddleback Church, The Speaker Lab)

In this Episode we sat down with my friend Steve Pyfrom (Head of Strategy and Sales at the Nine)Steve's a former pastor based in Portland Oregon, and we talked about:Our shared love for Portland,Steve’s relationship to church now that he’s not in ministry,His long, drawn out journey of leaving ministry and the pain that followed,How easy it is use ministry to justify your own ego,and the toll ministry takes on your family.

In this episode we sat down with Emily Arnold (former ministry leader at Saddleback Church, Community Manager at the Speaker Lab) to talk about: Her journey into ministry at Saddleback Church and all of the compounding factors that led her to leave,The sense of belonging and identity that having a role in church create,Becoming honest about the human parts of us we ignore while in ministry,And Emily’s journey of finding her new career in and her full authentic self leaving ministry. 

In this episode we sat down with David Royall, a pastor-turned-product-marketer at Subsplash to talk about:The toll that a growth-at-all-costs ministries take not only on pastors, but on members and volunteers,How sometimes it takes our spouses to help us see the dysfunction we’re living with and used to, And a bit about what his life and career looks like after ministry. 

In this episode we sat town with Brian Recker, an ex-pastor and author of the forthcoming book Hell Bent to talk about​his journey into and out of ministry,​the pressure pastors face to not change their minds,​and the ways that disappointment can become our greatest teacher.

For our 20th episode we wanted to pause and do an Ask Me Anything episode.Collin sits down to address a few questions from Shifties, questions like: - How do I find purpose after leaving ministry?- How do I make peace with all the time I lost in ministry? - How do I talk to people who don't understand why I'm leaving?If you've listened to Holy Shift so far, thank you. It's a gift to have you as a part of this community.

What if it's okay to live a totally ordinary life? In this episode of Holy Shift we sat down with Andy Squyres to talk about:his journey from worship pastor to writer and songwriter,evangelicalism's limited vocabulary for pain and suffering,how to break the cycle of trying to live an extraordinary life, and Andy's take on not becoming cynical after leaving ministry.

What do you do when a leader's public persona doesn't match who they are behind the scenes?In this episode we sat down with Chuck DeGroat. Chuck is a therapist, a professor at Western Seminary in Holland MI, and the author of 5 books (Including When Narcissism Comes to Church, and most recently Healing What’s Within: And this episode was a deep dive on all things narcissistic church leadership.In this episode Chuck: gave us an operating definition of narcissism,shared some of the signs of a narcissistic leader,clarified the difference between narcissistic leadership and a narcissistic system,and shared a bit about how you heal and move forward after having an experience with narcissistic leadership in church. 

In this episode we sat down with Joshua Harris. Beyond authoring I Kissed Dating Goodbye, Josh as a pastor and ministry leader for years, so we sat down and chatted about: - Josh's transition out of ministry, - What it's like to change your mind, - and having compassion of former versions of yourself. This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠⁠ This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio. The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What do you do when you disagree with church leadership? In this episode we sat down with Joseph Peterson (Founder of Fohrm Studio) to talk through the complicated choice between speaking up and staying quiet. If you want to reach out to Joseph for creative work you can at fohrm. studio If you want to follow what Joseph is doing at Commoners, you can do that at commoners.co This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠⁠ This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio. The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.

What do you do when you feel like it's time to leave but everyone is telling you that you just need to pray more?In this episode we sit down with Candace Hagen to talk about:- her journey from ministry to real estate- the cognitive dissonance of leaving ministry- and Candace’s advice for anyone wanting to jump into a new career after ministryThis episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ⁠ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift⁠This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.