The Spiritual Practice of Speaking Up: A Conversation with Cynthia Winward & Susan M. Hinckley

We sometimes reduce “faith-promoting” stories to those tidy endings—where miracles show up just in time, doubts vanish, and testimony replaces tension. But sometimes growth begins when the script falls apart. For Susan Meredith Hinckley and Cynthia Winward, these stories are nourishing a faith that looks like trust and transformation.  Susan and Cynthia are co-hosts of the At Last She Said It podcast and authors of a new book with the same title. They came to this work from different paths. For Cynthia, the Church just worked. She thrived—until her life took a turn at 40 and her certainty unraveled. For Susan, the discomfort was quieter. She says the Church always fit like an “itchy sweater”—a subtle, persistent misfit that kept her silent. But over time, what had become a “crisis of silence” became a call to speak up.For the past six years, Susan and Cynthia have been inviting women into conversations that began as honest exchanges between friends about big ideas and the real tensions of belonging to a church they both love and feel challenged by. What they’ve learned is that talking about hard things can be its own kind of faith practice—a way to bring your whole heart to your faith and your community, a way of being known. In this episode, they share practical wisdom for navigating Sundays when belief feels messy, offer a compass for making decisions when clarity is out of reach, and explore how using our voice can help transform hard things into a source connection with each other and a more intimate relationship with a God who loves us without conditions.We hope this conversation expands your imagination for what spiritual strength can look like—and invites you into a faith that’s honest, evolving, and a true seedbed for growth.We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

Today, we’re sharing a conversation with Jeff Burningham—entrepreneur, former candidate for governor, and now author of a new book called The Last Book Written by a Human.This conversation begins with an unforgettable scene Jeff witnessed in India on the banks of the Ganges—a place where death, life, and the mundane all unfolded side by side. That image becomes a frame for everything we discussed: the reality of constant transformation and the deep human need for presence in the middle of it all.Jeff describes what he calls “the old game”—a life built around achievement, hustle, and doing more to be more. And then he shares what happened when that game stopped working for him, and how it led him to something new: a life of deeper being, awareness, and love.We also talked about AI—not just as a technological shift, but as what he calls a “cosmic mirror.” Jeff believes that AI is here not to replace us, but to reveal us—to help us see what’s essential and ask who we want to become. The path forward, he says, will require us to do something radical: give up ego, lean into love, and return to the wisdom of the body, nature, and family.In the face of rapid change and uncertainty, Jeff invites us to return to what’s most human. We’re so grateful to Jeff for this book and this conversation.You can order the book from Bookshop here or from Amazon here!We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

Today we’re sharing Arthur Brooks’ keynote from Restore this last weekend. This message was so powerful—it will stop you in your tracks, and feels so essential for this exact moment. We believe it needs to be heard everywhere—in our homes, our communities, and across the country—so we’re sharing it with you now.This year we gathered at Utah Valley University for Restore, where just two weeks earlier Charlie Kirk was assassinated while addressing a large crowd. So soon after such horrific violence, the campus itself carried a real weight of grief and uncertainty. Arthur walked straight into that heaviness with so much clarity and conviction—and called us toward a powerful vision of moral courage and discipleship.His message was bold. He confronted unflinchingly what’s really breaking us apart—not political division, but the deeper poison of contempt. And then he challenged us with this: Moral courage isn’t standing up to the people you disagree with—moral courage is standing up to your own side on behalf of those you disagree with.Arthur says tolerance and civility are too low a bar. The real standard is much higher. It's the Sermon on the Mount. It’s loving our enemies—not as a feeling, but as radical, concrete, countercultural action.Arthur wove together science, story, faith, and humor into something deeply personal and urgently needed. His challenge was clear: if we want a different kind of country, we have to become a different kind of people.This felt like a spark. Now the work of discipleship begins. We also want to mention that you can watch this presentation on our youtube channel. Arthur is a super engaging presenter and we strongly recommend that you watch this one. If you bought a ticket for Restore this year, we will email you the recordings as soon we they're edited! If you didn't get a ticket this year, you can order the Restore 2025 recordings at faithmatters.org/restore.We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

This week, we’re sharing a special live episode of Proclaim Peace recorded in person at the Compass Gallery on Peacemaking and Discipleship with Jennifer Thomas and Chad Ford.We’re also excited to announce the first-ever Waymakers conference, REPAIR, is taking place October 23–25 in Provo, Utah. This is such an incredible opportunity to learn from world-class peacemakers leading intensive workshops to help us navigate the most challenging situations in our lives. If you feel frustrated or hopeless about a conflict in your life, bring it to REPAIR. This year we’re featuring a keynote from Jim Ferrell as well as a series of intimate workshops from The One America Movement, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Patrick Mason, Melisson Mason, Thomas McConkie, LaShawn Williams, and many more.And if you missed Restore this year, we’ve got you covered. You can purchase the full general session recordings to hear your favorite speakers anytime at faithmatters.org/restore. If you purchased a ticket to Restore (of any kind) the recordings are included—we’ll send them to you as soon as they’re edited and ready. We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

This week, we’re sharing a special live episode of Proclaim Peace recorded in person at the Compass Gallery on Peacemaking and Discipleship with Jennifer Thomas and Chad Ford.We’re also excited to announce the first-ever Waymakers conference, REPAIR, is taking place October 23–25 in Provo, Utah. This is such an incredible opportunity to learn from world-class peacemakers leading intensive workshops to help us navigate the most challenging situations in our lives. If you feel frustrated or hopeless about a conflict in your life, bring it to REPAIR. This year we’re featuring a keynote from Jim Ferrell as well as a series of intimate workshops from The One America Movement, Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, Patrick Mason, Melisson Mason, Thomas McConkie, LaShawn Williams, and many more.And if you missed Restore this year, we’ve got you covered. You can purchase the full general session recordings to hear your favorite speakers anytime at faithmatters.org/restore. If you purchased a ticket to Restore (of any kind) the recordings are included—we’ll send them to you as soon as they’re edited and ready. 

This week, we're bringing you a special episode recorded live from the Restore gathering in 2024, where we were joined by Jared Halverson. This one one of my very favorite topics to hear Jared talk about. His session was on what he calls “contraries” or paradoxes that are inherent in a life of faith. His message feels especially timely this week. He offers the powerful image of the cross as a symbol of wholeness in our discipleship. One axis, reaching vertically, represents our connection to God, while the horizontal beam represents the love and care we extend outward to embrace those around us. True discipleship, Jared explained, is this centerpoint. It requires both beams—it's a deep grounding in God that inspires us to reach out in love to others. Jared’s session feels like an invitation to love our neighbor. He boldly reminds us that the means matter, that "being right with God, does not justify being wrong with other people." So rather than allowing our differences to create distance, he challenges us to see the ways that truth is found in the tension of the paradox. This “both-and” approach allows us to see each other more fully and generously, creating connection that transcends our differences and reflects god's love.We’re so grateful for Jared’s wisdom in this session, and we hope his message helps you feel connected and inspired this week and we hope you’ll join us at Restore this year where you’ll hear Jared live. Learn more about Restore at faithmatters.org/restoreWe’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

Before we jump in, we wanted to acknowledge that so many in our community and across the world have been stunned and horrified by the murder of Charlie Kirk at UVU. It feels to us like a particularly difficult moment in this country, and we find ourselves grasping both for hope, and for the message to share in a moment like this.It’s in that spirit that we wanted to share this week’s episode — a conversation about belonging from the Faith Matters podcast Article 13.At their best, faith and faith communities bring us together across differences and remind us of something essential: that we are inherently and irrevocably connected. When we call each other “brother” and “sister,” we’re naming something deeply true. And choosing to stay in community — even when it’s hard — might be exactly what the world needs right now. This episode explores what it means to belong—it invites us to think about belonging not just as something to find, but something we can offer and build in our spiritual communities.We appreciated the insight we saw shared by Senator Chris Murphy this week: that when other forms of identity become weaker, something—like political identity—will step in to fill the void. This episode asks the question: what might society look like if we strive to intentionally create identity not just as members of religious communities, but as inherently dignified, divine beings who are all connected—in other words: as children of God? If there’s any truth that might help us find some hope for the future, it seems like we’ll find it in that direction.As always, we really appreciate you listening, and for helping us find our own belonging, especially in hard moments.*Find more peacemaking resources on our website: faithmatters.orgLearn more about Restore: faithmatters.org/restoreWe’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

This week, we’re re-sharing what we thought was an “instant classic” from last year’s Restore Gathering; a deeply personal and thought-provoking message about family, faith, and the complexity of life from Joseph Grenny, author of Crucial Conversations and co-founder of The Other Side Academy.Drawing from his own experience with his own “messy” family, Joseph speaks openly about moments of despair, like the heartache of watching loved ones—including his own children—struggle with addiction, estrangement, and other crises.But at the heart of his message is a radical idea: that the phrase "All is well" can be true even in the face of chaos and imperfection. He challenges the traditional "brochure" image of family success, reminding us that not even the families in our sacred texts had it all together. Through powerful stories of redemption, both from his own family and the lives transformed at The Other Side Academy, Joseph encourages us to rethink what it means to succeed as families, and to embrace waiting as part of God’s divine work.We think Joseph’s words will resonate deeply with anyone who has felt the pain of seeing a loved one struggle, and we hope it offers both comfort and inspiration. I also want to mention that Joseph’s full presentation is available on our YouTube channel. We highly recommend watching it there—his visuals are fantastic, and it’s a completely different experience seeing him bring it all to life in person.Joseph will be speaking at Restore again this year, along with a fantastic line up of speakers, musicians, and performers. We would love to have you join us! Visit faithmatters.org/restore to see the agenda and get your tickets.We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

You’ve probably heard the old joke—we caught it again recently on Ezra Klein’s show. A conspiracy theorist dies and goes to heaven. At the pearly gates, God tells him he can ask one question—anything at all. The conspiracy theorist says, “Who really killed JFK?” God replies, “Lee Harvey Oswald and he acted alone.” The conspiracy theorist pauses, nods, and says, “Wow. This goes higher than I thought.”The joke captures just how impenetrable conspiracy thinking can be. That’s part of what we’re exploring today with our guest, Sharon McMahon. Sharon is a former high school government teacher turned trusted national educator, bestselling author, and host of the Sharon Says So podcast, known for bringing truth, clarity, and calm to some of the most divisive issues in American public life.Today, Sharon helps us unpack why conspiracy theories can be so compelling, how they spread, and the very human needs behind them—like safety, belonging, and making sense of uncertainty. She also shares deeply practical and compassionate guidance for staying in relationship with someone who’s caught in that mindset, while still honoring your own values and boundaries.In 2020, the Church offered timely guidance in its General Handbook, warning against misinformation that promotes anger, contention, and fear—and encouraging members to be skeptical of conspiracy theories. So we talked with Sharon about the role faith communities can play in building resilience against misinformation—not by controlling ideas, but by fostering connection, curiosity, and critical thinking.Sharon’s clarity, courage, and humor made this one of our favorite conversations and we’re also so excited she’ll be speaking at Restore this year—we hope you’ll join us to see her live.Learn more about Restore at faithmatters.org/restoreGet Sharon's book from Bookshop.orgGet Sharon's book from AmazonCome to our event at The Compass on 9/13We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.

We’re excited today to talk about the temple. It’s a topic we love—one that sits at the heart of our faith—but because of its sacred nature, it can sometimes be difficult to explore openly.Our guest today is historian Jonathan Stapley, who has spent the past two decades studying the temple and its role in Latter-day Saint life. His new book, Holiness to the Lord, is coming out this fall, and it incorporates a remarkable collection of never-before-seen archival records.The book explores the temple’s earliest origins and the ways Joseph Smith drew on the book of Revelation and biblical archetypes to transform ordinary people into priests and priestesses through covenant, community, and ritual. Jonathan also documents the generational shifts in temple practice over time and the sacred work the temple has been doing in the lives of Latter-day Saints from the beginning to today.We’re especially grateful that Jonathan was willing to engage some of the harder questions—things that don’t always fit neatly in a Sunday School setting, but that many of us carry quietly. He speaks candidly about temple recommends, garments, and evolving expectations around worthiness. We got to ask him about the temple’s connection to Masonic rituals (how similar are they, really?) and about how we sit with the very real pain that can come with conditional temple participation—especially when its means leaving family members behind for temple sealings.Jonathan brings both deep scholarship and lived faith to this conversation. He helps us see the temple as a living, evolving expression of our faith—one that reflects a divine invitation to connection, transformation, and covenant belonging, and that draws us into Joseph’s bold, sacred project: to bring heaven to earth.Preorder the book from Bookshop.orgPreorder the book from AmazonJoin us for an event discussing the relationship between ancient and modern temples at The Compass Gallery on Sept 21.Read what we've published about temples in our magazine, Wayfare. We’re so excited to tell you about a new Faith Matters initiative called Organized Intelligence, supported by the Future of Life Institute. Our first gathering will take place November 4-5 in Salt Lake City, where you'll hear from scholars, creatives, technologists, and religious leaders. This gathering is for curious minds, and we would love to see you there! Go to organizedintelligence.ai to RSVP.