Kevin Bethune: Nonlinear—Navigating Design with Curiosity and Conviction

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Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/kevin-bethune-returns One core strength that good designers cultivate is the ability to navigate ambiguity. Our guest today, Kevin Bethune, returns to the show to discuss his new book, Nonlinear: Navigating Design with Curiosity and Conviction, which emphasizes that to achieve real innovation, teams must be willing to venture into the “proverbial forest of ambiguity.” We talked to Kevin about how we can bring non-linear thinking into our very linear workflows to shake them up to embrace ambiguity and exploration. Kevin also shared why he thinks multidisciplinary thinking is essential to innovation and creativity. Buy the book Bio Kevin Bethune is a multidisciplinary design and innovation executive, entrepreneur, best-selling author, and keynote speaker based in Redondo Beach, California. His career spans mechanical engineering within nuclear power, product creation at Nike, and advanced design studies at ArtCenter, culminating in a pioneering path for servant leadership in design and innovation. As the founder of dreams • design + life—a “think tank” integrating strategic design, industrial design, and brand strategy—Kevin helps organizations uncover human-centric, holistic opportunities that bridge physical, digital, and service-oriented experiences. Over the years, he has led large-scale creative teams, guiding 30+ direct contributors and influencing global groups of more than 70 in shaping design functional excellence and innovation best practices. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. Thuma: We’re the sort of people who can’t help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful living space. A well designed home is a sanctuary for creative thinking. For those who revel in crafting a beautiful living space, Thuma offers modern furniture that transforms your home into a sanctuary for creative thinking. Their timelessly designed beds, nightstands, dressers, and shelving are built from solid wood using Japanese joinery techniques for a silent, stable foundation, balancing form, craftsmanship, and functionality. With clean lines, subtle curves, and a minimalist style available in four signature finishes—and an upgradeable headboard—the Thuma Bed collection assembles in just about 5 minutes with a single hand-tightened screw, ensuring a durable piece backed by a lifetime warranty. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to http://thuma.co/designbetter. *** If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: [email protected] If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: [email protected]

Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/scott-belsky We live in an era where it’s easy to get overwhelmed by the pace of new technology. As designers, creatives, and technologists, we have a wealth of tools at our disposal that people in our roles only a decade ago could only have dreamed of. Yet it can be daunting to know where to focus our efforts: what new skills and workflows should we be learning to stay relevant? Scott Belsky, co-founder of Behance and Chief Strategy Officer at Adobe, calls the rapid spread of generative AI tools a “Cambrian Explosion,” referring to an evolutionary event 500 million years ago when many new animal species appeared in a relatively short time. We talk to Scott about how we might navigate this explosion, and why it might make sense to move toward a more “boundaryless” workflow. We also talk with Scott about his book The Messy Middle, and how to manage emotional turbulence during challenging parts of our career. Bio Scott Belsky is a builder, author, and investor who currently serves as Adobe’s Chief Strategy Officer and Executive Vice President of Design & Emerging Products. As a co-founder of Behance—a platform now used by over 50 million creatives—Scott has been instrumental in shaping Adobe’s Creative Cloud, pioneering mobile and service strategies, and later advising innovative companies like Pinterest, Uber, and Airtable. He also champions creative empowerment through initiatives such as 99U and Action Method, and his thought leadership shines in his international bestsellers, Making Ideas Happen and The Messy Middle, as well as his widely read Implications newsletter. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. Thuma: We’re the sort of people who can’t help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful living space. A well designed home is a sanctuary for creative thinking. For those who revel in crafting a beautiful living space, Thuma offers modern furniture that transforms your home into a sanctuary for creative thinking. Their timelessly designed beds, nightstands, dressers, and shelving are built from solid wood using Japanese joinery techniques for a silent, stable foundation, balancing form, craftsmanship, and functionality. With clean lines, subtle curves, and a minimalist style available in four signature finishes—and an upgradeable headboard—the Thuma Bed collection assembles in just about 5 minutes with a single hand-tightened screw, ensuring a durable piece backed by a lifetime warranty. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to http://thuma.co/designbetter.

Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/idris-brewster In Berlin, there are memorials to the Holocaust called Stolpersteine, or “stumbling stones,” that memorialize some of the victims of the tragic event with small brass stones placed into the cobblestone streets outside their last-known residence. These poignant objects create moments for reflection, and awareness of the invisible history that hides behind modern city streets. Here in the United States, we have important points of history that often go unnoticed. Our guest today, Idris Brewster, aims to change that with the Kinfolk Foundation, which uses augmented reality to shift how we learn about our history, bringing it to life in front of our eyes. We speak with Idris about how he found his way into the realm of augmented reality technology, how cultural moments can change historical perspectives, and the power of location-based storytelling and designing for discovery. Bio Idris Brewster is a Brooklyn-born artist and creative technologist who challenges traditional narratives through immersive spatial experiences that merge historical archives, public spaces, and technology. As the Executive Director of Kinfolk Foundation, he empowers Black and Brown communities by turning augmented reality into a tool for monument-making and historical preservation. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. Thuma: We’re the sort of people who can’t help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful living space. A well designed home is a sanctuary for creative thinking. For those who revel in crafting a beautiful living space, Thuma offers modern furniture that transforms your home into a sanctuary for creative thinking. Their timelessly designed beds, nightstands, dressers, and shelving are built from solid wood using Japanese joinery techniques for a silent, stable foundation, balancing form, craftsmanship, and functionality. With clean lines, subtle curves, and a minimalist style available in four signature finishes—and an upgradeable headboard—the Thuma Bed collection assembles in just about 5 minutes with a single hand-tightened screw, ensuring a durable piece backed by a lifetime warranty. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to http://thuma.co/designbetter.

Design sprints have become a staple of the creative process at companies around the world and an indispensable tool in the pursuit of innovation. We owe a debt of thanks to Jake Knapp and his former colleagues at Google Ventures (now known as GV) who pioneered the design sprint. Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jake-knapp-click There is one gap that design sprints have not entirely addressed, though. What do you do if you’re starting a new product or company from scratch? That is the subject of Jake Knapp and co-author John Zeratsky’s newest book, Click: How to make what people want. Jake lays out the elements of what he calls a “foundation sprint” in this book. We chat with Jake about what makes a foundation sprint different than a design sprint, and some examples from the book of companies that have used foundation sprints effectively. We also talk to Jake about his decision to start Character, a VC fund aimed at helping startups at seed stage with capital and sprints, and the qualities that they look for in their founders when deciding to invest. Pre-order "Click" Bio Jake Knapp is a New York Times bestselling author and co-founder of Character. Previously, Jake built products like Microsoft Encarta and Gmail, co-founded Google Meet, and invented the Design Sprint. He has coached hundreds of teams at places like Miro, Slack, LEGO, IDEO, and NASA on product strategy and time management, and is a guest instructor at Harvard Business School. This is Jake’s third appearance on Design Better. In his first interview with us, he discusses Sprint, and in his second interview he talks about his (and John Zeratsky’s) book Make Time. Books & links mentioned Ten things we know to be true The Making of Prince of Persia The rest is history podcast Met opera on demand https://jakek.medium.com/ *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase. If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: [email protected] If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: [email protected]

We live in an era where the boundaries are beginning to blur between roles like designers and developers. Generative AI tools are making it easier for designers to code quick prototypes, and for developers to wireframe and create first-pass UI’s for applications. Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jenny-blackburn So we thought it would be fascinating to talk with Jenny Blackburn, VP of UX at Google for Gemini, about the many ways that GenAI can improve our workflows. We also speak with Jenny about how experimental tools like NotebookLM play a role in the roadmap for Gemini, how they get feedback from their users, and the skills designers need to be successful in the era of AI. Bio Jenny Blackburn is the Vice President of User Experience (UX) at Google for Gemini Experiences & Google Assistant, where she leads cross-functional teams in shaping engaging, intuitive products used by millions worldwide. With over two decades of experience at leading technology firms—including Apple and Amazon—she has built a reputation for championing design excellence and user-centric innovation. Jenny is known for fostering collaborative, diverse environments and delivering impactful solutions that blend creativity, accessibility, and strategic thinking to drive exceptional user experiences. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase. *** If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: [email protected] If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: [email protected]

As designers, we sometimes get caught up in our egos. I’m the creative one on the team. I’m the one who should have the final say on these designs. I’m misunderstood, and I feel like I’m always having to teach people a new language. Find full show notes and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/scott-berkun-why-design-is-hard Author Scott Berkun has a new book called Why Design is Hard, which dives into why this “ego trap” limits designers' effectiveness in their roles. We welcome him back on the show to discuss this new book, and also discuss how designers can learn to navigate organizational power structures and gain more influence over decisions that affect their work, how the myth of the “design hero” shapes young designers entering the field, and why design schools often fail to prepare students for the real-world dynamics of organizational culture and power. Bio Scott Berkun is a bestselling author and popular speaker on UX design, innovation, leading teams, public speaking and other subjects. He’s published nine books, including How Design Makes The World, The Myths of Innovation, Confessions of a Public Speaker, and The Year Without Pants. His work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, The Economist, The Guardian, Wired magazine, USA Today, Fast Company, National Public Radio, CNN, NPR, MSNBC and other media. His popular blog is at scottberkun.com and he tweets at @berkun. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase. If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: [email protected] If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: [email protected]

There aren’t many kids who start a record label when they’re 12 years old. Or play piano professionally at the age of six. But our guest today, Marcus “Bellringer” Bell, is the kind of polymath that did those things, and went on to create a successful career in the music industry, as a producer and composer who has worked with musicians like Nicki Minaj and Snoop Dogg. Marcus has also created one of the first AI-driven artists, fusing his own musical skills with GenAI persona Rayvn Lyte. We talk with Marcus about what inspired him to do this, as well as the ethics of AI-generated music. We also discuss his creative process, and how he manages to fit in creative time amidst raising a family and other domestic duties. Visit our Substack for bonus episode content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/marcus-bell Bio Marcus “Bellringer” Bell is an American music producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and entrepreneur who has collaborated with global superstars like Nicki Minaj, Snoop Dogg, and Timbaland, and whose productions have been performed by Beyoncé. As CEO of Bellringer Productions LLC, he manages a catalog of over 30,000 songs, mentors artists, and has authored an Amazon #1 best seller on musician branding. Beyond music, he is a pioneering AI technologist and crypto investor, launching viral AI music character Ravyn Lyte and teaching communities to leverage AI and crypto through his Wealth and Impact AI course. Raised in a family that championed excellence, Bell honed his craft at Berklee College of Music before working with major labels and ultimately starting multiple ventures. He continues to give keynote speeches worldwide and remains dedicated to empowering people to unlock their fullest potential. *** Premium Episodes on Design Better This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show. Upgrade to paid *** Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show: Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer. DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase. If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: [email protected] If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: [email protected]

Our podcast network, The Curiosity Department, has a new show called Reconsidering. Though design and your work are a big part of who you are, you are so much more. Reconsidering is a show hosted by designers that aims to bring fresh eyes to the important things in life. Co-hosts Meredith Black, formerly at Pinterest and Figma, Bob Baxley, formerly at Apple and Thoughtspot, and Aarron Walter explore topics like how to build a fulfilling career, navigate big life changes like illness and death, and we talk with experts about the skills you need to cultivate to become the healthy, well adjusted adult we all want to be. You can learn more about Reconsidering and subscribe to the show at Reconsidering.org. But to give you a taste, we’re sharing an episode here. Bob, Meredith, and Aarron talked to Brad Stuhlberg, who writes about excellence, resilience, performance, and well-being. His latest book, Mastering Change, is a New York Times best-seller and a great read as we enter the new year with big goals for ourselves. Brad’s in depth research and lucid guidance made an impression on us, and we know it will do the same for you.  --- Like it or not, change is inevitable. Your career, relationships, body, health, mood are all in constant motion. We can fight it but it’s unproductive and leads to suffering.  Our pal Brad Stulberg is back on the show to help us look at change differently. His new book Master of Change: How To Excel When Everything Is Changing - Including You is full of deeply researched wisdom from science and philosophy that will help you become more resilient and adaptable. About Brad Stulberg Brad Stulberg researches, writes, and coaches on health, well-being, and sustainable excellence. He is the bestselling author of The Practice of Groundedness and co-author of Peak Performance. Stulberg regularly contributes to the New York Times, and his work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The New Yorker, Sports Illustrated, Outside Magazine, Forbes, and other outlets. He also serves as the co-host of The Growth Equation podcast and is on faculty at the University of Michigan’s Graduate School of Public Health. In his coaching practice, he works with executives, entrepreneurs, physicians, and athletes on their mental skills and overall well-being. He lives in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi folks! We hope you’re having a wonderful holiday season, and have plenty of opportunities to relax and spend time with friends and family. This week we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes with Jonathan Hoefler, the legendary type designer. Enjoy the episode, and we’ll see you in the New Year! Find the full episode and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/rewind-jonathan-hoefler *** It’s still not too late for a last-minute gift for the creative people in your life. Why not give the gift of education and inspiration by with a year-long subscription to Design Better Premium? We’ve even made a 🎁 handy gift card that you can send virtually, or print out and mail, or gift in person. *** Chances are you have a few fonts on your computer designed by Jonathan Hoefler. Since 1991, Apple has included Hoefler Text on every Mac. Ideal Sans, Knockout, Archer, Verlag, and Sentinel—are a few more of Hoefler’s well known typefaces —each is steeped in history and timelessly beautiful. It’s no wonder that Jonathan was featured in the Netflix series Abstract, which explores design and creativity, as he is truly a typography legend. As part of our series on design history, we talk with Jonathan about his typographic influences, his philosophical views on the value of presentation and why he views entrepreneurship as an invitation, and some of the themes in his work like “Unfinished Business” and “Conservation and Preservation.” Bio Jonathan Hoefler (pronounced "HEFF-ler") is a typeface designer, typographer, writer, and inventor, and the creator of some of the world's most influential fonts such as Gotham, Knockout, Mercury, Sentinel, and Hoefler Text. He founded the distinguished type foundry Hoefler&Co in 1989, which he sold in 2021, after publishing more than eleven hundred original tyepfaces. He's currently enjoying a sabbatical, and writing about typography and visual culture on his website, JonathanHoefler.com.