Suzanne Mettler Says the Rural-Urban Divide Threatens American Democracy

If we want people to support democratic capitalism, it has to be a kind of democratic capitalism that delivers for most people, and we haven't had that.Ian ShapiroWhat went wrong after the Cold War – and what can democracies learn from the opportunities they missed? Ian Shapiro, Sterling Professor of Political Science and Global Affairs at Yale University and author of After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World, joins Democracy Paradox to examine how political choices helped shape today’s populist backlash. Shapiro argues that center-left parties too readily accepted the neoliberal economic consensus, leaving many voters economically insecure and politically alienated. He and Justin Kempf also explore what a new economic model might require as democracies confront artificial intelligence, demographic change, immigration, and the transformation of work – and why, despite democracy’s vulnerabilities, Shapiro sees reasons for hope.Ian Shapiro is the Sterling Professor of Political Science at Yale University. His latest book is After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20The Left's Preemptive Capitulation - 2:21A Dollar Short, a Day Late - 14:52Right on Politics, Wrong on Math - 25:19The Next Turning Point - 39:38LinksLearn more about Ian Shapiro.Learn more about his book After the Fall: From the End of History to the Crisis of Democracy, How Politicians Broke Our World (Basic Books).Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

The irony of democratic backsliding is a lot of these things are pitched to people and understood by people as actually pro-democratic.Noam LupuSupport for democracy is rising across the Americas after more than a decade of decline, but what kind of democracy do citizens actually want? Noam Lupu, director of Vanderbilt University’s Center for Global Democracy and LAPOP Lab, joins Justin Kempf to discuss findings from the latest AmericasBarometer and Pulse of Democracy. They explore why better economic and security conditions may be strengthening democratic support, even as distrust of political institutions persists; how citizens can embrace democracy while supporting illiberal leaders; and what attitudes toward representation, inequality, generational change, and political polarization reveal about the future of democracy across the region.Noam Lupu is the Gertrude Conaway Vanderbilt Professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University and Director of the Center for Global Democracy and LAPOP Lab. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Is Democracy Delivering? - 2:36The Illiberal Bargain - 9:56The Outliers: Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay - 19:56Whose Democracy Is It? - 29:31LinksLearn more about Noam Lupu.Learn more about the AmericasBarometer survey. Read the Pulse of Democracy 2026 report. Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

There was an assumption that influence could only run one direction... but influence could run the other direction as well.Alexander CooleyAuthoritarian governments are exercising growing influence not only within their own borders but across the institutions, markets, and organizations that shape global life. Alexander Cooley and Alexander Dukalskis, authors of Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics, join Justin Kempf to examine how authoritarian states have learned to reshape the liberal international order for illiberal ends. They discuss cooperation among autocracies, the growing economic power behind authoritarian influence, pressure on corporations and universities, and what these changes mean for liberalism, democracy, and the future of global governance.Alexander Cooley is the Claire Tow Professor of Political Science and Vice Provost for Research and Academic Centers at Barnard College, Columbia University. Alexander Dukalskis associate professor in the School of Politics & International Relations at University College Dublin. They are the authors of the recent book Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics.  The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Liberalism, Not Democracy - 3:18The Autocratic Axis -  15:01Profits Over Principles - 28:20What Comes After Liberalism? - 38:47LinksLearn more about Alexander Cooley.Learn more about Alexander Dukalskis.Learn more about their book Dictating the Agenda: The Authoritarian Resurgence in World Politics (Oxford University Press, 2026)Learn more about the Kellogg InstituteApes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

 We barely disagree with each other, but we can't stand one another's party. Suzanne MettlerSuzanne Mettler is the John L. Senior Professor of American Institutions at Cornell University. She is the coauthor of Four Threats with Robert Lieberman and Rural Versus Urban: The Growing Divide that Threatens Democracy coauthored with Trevor Brown. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20From a 2-Point Gap to a 20-Point Chasm - 3:10The NAFTA Betrayal Democrats Never Escaped - 15:01Why Are You Kowtowing to These Elites? - 23:31Power Without Prosperity - 34:35LinksRead the book Rural Versus Urban: The Growing Divide That Threatens DemocracyLearn more about Suzanne MettlerLearn more about the Kellogg InstituteApes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

I'm by nature optimistic, but am extremely worried because of the structural moment we live in.Rachel Beatty RiedlPolitical scientist Rachel Beatty Riedl joins host Justin Kempf to examine how extreme economic inequality and the growing power of transnational elites have contributed to democratic backsliding. Drawing on experiences from Africa and other third-wave democracies, Riedl explains how concentrated wealth can weaken states, distort political competition, and prevent citizens’ preferences from being represented equally in government.Rachel Beatty Riedl is a Professor in the Brooks School of Public Policy and in the Department of Government at Cornell University and the Peggy J. Koenig ’78 Director of the Cornell Center on Democracy. She is the coeditor of Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and Resilience with Valerie Bunce, Tom Pepinsky, and Ken Roberts and the author of many articles including “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20The Third Wave's Broken Bargain - 4:16Elites Without Borders - 14:50The Reagan Test - 24:35The Rocky Road Ahead - 34:26LinksLearn more about the Cornell Center on Democracy Read the book Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and ResilienceRead her article “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Rachel Beatty Riedl.Learn more about the Kellogg InstituteApes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

You can only get to the point of restoring democratic institutions if you win the last election with such a huge majority that you really have the public with you as you make radical change.Kim Lane Scheppele Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Sociology and International Affairs in the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. Some of her articles include “Autocratic Legalism”, “The Rule of Law and the Frankenstate: Why Government Checklists Do Not Work”, “How Viktor Orbán Wins," and most recently “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”  The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Magyar's Playbook - 3:24A Party Without a Party - 18:26Breaking the Rules to Save Democracy - 30:48Looking to the Future Instead of History - 44:29LinksLearn more about Kim Lane ScheppeleRead her Journal of Democracy article “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

The question is not whether polarization is dangerous, but the conditions under which it becomes violent.Jeffrey KopsteinJeffrey Kopstein joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when polarization turns violent. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy essay “When Polarization Turns Violent” and his book with Stephen Hanson, The Assault on the State, Kopstein explains why affective polarization, struggles over belonging, and the weakening or politicization of state authority can create the conditions for organized political violence. The conversation ranges from Charlottesville to lynching in the American South, pogroms in Eastern Europe, communal violence in India, and the rise of patrimonial leaders who treat the state as personal property rather than an impersonal rule-of-law institution.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20From Disagreement to Hate - 2:55Who Owns the Polity? - 13:51When the State Steps Aside - 26:32The Assault on the State - 36:10Links:Learn more about Jeffrey Kopstein.Read his Journal of Democracy article "When Polarization Turns Violent.”Learn more about his co-authored book The Assault on the State.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

We think the next ten years are going to be anti-billionaire.Pepper CulpepperPepper Culpepper joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when populism can strengthen democracy. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good” and his book with Taeku Lee, Billionaire Backlash, Culpepper argues that corporate scandals can channel public anger toward billionaires and large corporations in ways that reinforce democratic accountability. The conversation explores good and bad populism, economic unfairness, AI, regulation, and whether democratic governments can still stand up to concentrated corporate power.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Good Populism - 3:05Latent Opinion - 12:33The Next Progressive Era - 20:42Regulation vs. Abundance - 35:48LinksLearn more about Pepper Culpepper.Learn more about his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good.”Learn more about his book Billionaire Backlash: The Age of Corporate Scandal and How It Could Save Democracy (Bloomsbury, 2026).Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

We think of World War II as this global democratizing event, but what it really did was strengthen left-wing authoritarianism.Dan SlaterDan Slater is the James Orin Murfin Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Center of Emerging Democracies at the University of Michigan. He is the coauthor (with Joseph Wong) of the book From Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia. More recently, he authored the article "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Why Scholars Stopped Taking Ideology Seriously - 3:02The Difference Between Authoritarian Left and Right - 5:31Why the Third Wave Narrative Gets the History Wrong - 20:45Can Democracy Survive Ideological Extremes - 33:43LinksLearn more about Dan Slater.Read his article in the Journal of Democracy, "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave."Learn more about the Center for Emerging Democracies.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show

What happens when the violent state forged under autocracy survives into democracy?Guillermo TrejoIn this episode of The Democracy Paradox, Kellogg faculty fellow Guillermo Trejo discusses his new book, Accountability Shock, coauthored with Lucía Tiscornia and Juan Albarracín. Trejo explains how authoritarian security forces can survive democratic transitions and fuel organized crime, and why truth commissions, prosecutions, and institutional reforms are essential tools for preventing violence and building more durable democracies.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20What Is the State? - 3:23From Order to Crime - 9:12The Accountability Shock - 19:10Beyond Elections - 37:20LinksLearn more about Guillermo Trejo.Learn more about his book Accountability Shock: Why Transitional Justice Prevents Criminal Wars in New Democracies (Cambridge University Press, 2026)Learn more about the Notre Dame Violence and Transitional Justice Lab.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to [email protected] the show