18: What to do about (Secret Pol)ICE In Our Communities

*** We recorded this episode before ICE murdered Alex Pretti, a 37 year old ICU nurse who was attempting to help a woman up who had been pushed to the ground by ICE agents in Minneapolis on the morning of January 24, 2026. Despite the administration's attempt to cover up and justify this murder by claiming that Pretti was holding a gun (he wasn't, it was a phone), the facts are clear: ICE is murdering American citizens. And then, they are lying about it.   This is not the America we want for ourselves or for our children. We stand with Minnesota, Maine, and everywhere else that is fighting back. Part of our fight is this episode, and the resources we share in it. Please share widely. We are strongest when we stand together. NO ICE.   We leave you with the words of Alex Pretti's parents, who, in the face of the callous killing of their son, left us with who he truly is, in their statement that they released on January 24:   "We are heartbroken but also very angry. Alex was a kindhearted soul who cared deeply for his family and friends and also the American veterans whom he cared for as an ICU nurse at the Minneapolis VA hospital. Alex wanted to make a difference in this world. Unfortunately, he will not be with us to see his impact.   I do not throw around the 'hero' term lightly. However, his last thought and act was to protect a woman. The sickening lies told about our son by the administration are reprehensible and disgusting. Alex is clearly not holding a gun when attacked by Trump's murdering and cowardly ICE thugs. He had his phone in his right hand and his empty left hand is raised above his head while trying to protect the woman ICE just pushed down, all while being pepper sprayed.   Please get the truth out about our son. He was a good man."   Horns honking, people chanting ICE OUT as they crowd busy intersections. Horns honking, ICE agents smashing car windows, and grabbing people from their cars. Which scenario sounds like the America you know?  Which one, more importantly, sounds like the America you want to be fighting for? Regardless of what you answered, this episode is a must-listen. We unpack the history of ICE (it's not a long one, despite what might be suggested by our current administration), why ICE acting as the secret police for the administration is not only incredibly illegal today but also reminds us of another secret police which rhymes with Schmestapo, and what we can all DO about ICE in our communities, especially when it seems like we have no agency.  What to listen for: ICE's history in America is fairly new – it was formed after the attacks on 9/11/2001. The purpose and guideposts around ICE have shifted with administrations. Most recently? This federalized force of vigilantes, loosely recruited with even looser standards, has been weaponized and deputized to create mass terror, egged on by a fascist leader with an outsized ego and zero morality. The historic precedent:  Brownshirts → SA. Like the Proud Boys but 1930s style, and this is where we're at now. But Himmler wanted educated men to be this force, which developed into the SS. Let's not find out what happens in America if and when we get to the SS stage. What can you do? We have tons of ideas for using your body, wallet, writing/petitioning power, and joy. Listen in for our suggestions. Easy links to click to take action:  Tell Congress to listen to "wine moms" and stop ICE Tell Congress to stop funding ICE & CBP and demand accountability Urge senators to pass the DREAM Act  Use 5calls to make your voice as a US constituent heard   Names of companies supporting ICE, courtesy of The Nation, that you can boycott Resources:  KNOW YOUR RIGHTS if ICE shows up (we've printed this out to make sure our teens see it too)  What to know if you're thinking about planning an event  Example of how it can be done: A local Colorado grassroots organization

If you're a repeat listener to the podcast over the last almost SEVEN years, you know that sometimes, we've done seasonal arcs in which we focus on a topic or theme for the season. (And if you've just found us - hello!)  This year, we're doing something different: a year-long focus on action, which is the third pillar of our listen, learn, and act framework. It moves us from "what can I do?" to "here's how I show up."  We'll take the things that you've been curious about (but didn't want to ask about, maybe), break down the history behind them, and walk you through why these things matter.  And then we'll throw in tips on how, now that you know about them, you can make small changes in your own lives to make a huge impact in your communities and in the fight for all of us.  We're in it to win it this year. Hope you'll come along for the journey. Welcome to 2026, and a whole new year of What Do You Mean By That? - the podcast about asking better questions, having deeper conversations, and taking action that helps all of us. Make sure you're signed up for our newsletter to catch all the details in between. What to listen for:  What does a name actually carry beyond just identification? The cocktail party effect of perking our brains up, increasing engagement, attention, and memory. Plus, the big answer: belonging. Even to a whole country. Why does mispronouncing or misspelling someone's name — even unintentionally — have an impact? Just ask Miasma… I mean Misasha. AKA "Sasha" in coffee shops. Why do people so often hesitate to ask for help with names? Perfectionism, fear of awkwardness (but isn't it also awkward to get it wrong?!), and the effort it takes to actually listen to and learn someone's name.  What happens when people feel pressured to shorten, change, or "Americanize" their names? Sure, study after study proves we are biased against certain names. But is that enough reason to ask folks to erase their heritage, their parent's pride, their sense of identity - so you can call them "Alice"?  Getting names right is a simple but powerful practice of belonging. Make the effort. For more like this, listen to our conversation with Mita Mallick (another "get my name right" advocate) on colorism. And this conversation with Naomi Raquel Enright on specific phrasing around identity (i.e., presumed to be White, instead of White-presenting or passing for White)   Finally, to read more, check out our book Dear White Women: Let's Get (Un)comfortable Talking About Racism.   

We've had rough years before—but 2025? This one hit different.  If you've been listening to us for the last six years, you know we're no strangers to hard conversations. DEI. Wellbeing. Systems that don't work the way they should. And this year pushed all of that—from the global to the deeply personal. So what did we learn when everything felt heavier than usual? Let's talk about the biggest lessons this year forced us to learn - what we're leaving behind in 2025, and what we are carrying forward, with purpose, into 2026.   What to listen for: Mindsets that we're embracing: There are two things you can control, attitude and effort. Thank you, kids' basketball camp, for teaching us this one. It feels a lot more peaceful to identify and wear one identity at a time, and not feel guilty that you're not being anybody else in that moment. Even if you've got a trillion things on the go, if you need to be mom right now, be a rockstar mom; if you need to get a workout, be an amateur athlete.  Some strong truthbombs amidst laughter, including this: Nobody cares. You're giving other people's opinions far more power than they actually have.  Everybody's going through something. Tough doesn't look the same; have empathy.  What we're bringing into 2026: Relationships and empathy.  

In today's episode, we sit down with feminist author and activist Soraya Chemaly for a conversation that feels both urgent and deeply grounding. Soraya's new book, All We Want Is Everything, traces how male supremacy shows up everywhere—our politics, our homes, our faith spaces, our workplaces, and especially in the lives of our children. Together, we talk about the rising backlash against women and queer people, the ways boys are being pulled into misogynistic online spaces, and why so many young men are drifting toward anti-democratic movements without even realizing they're being manipulated. Soraya offers a powerful reframe for what we're seeing culturally, along with real, everyday actions that families can take to disrupt old gender scripts—on sports fields, around dinner tables, and in the tiny moments we rarely name but constantly repeat. This conversation is challenging, hopeful, beautifully honest, and filled with the clarity that can actually shift how we move through the world. Let's dive in. What to listen for:  What inspired Soraya to write this book, now, beyond the backlash from the presidential elections. The one cultural shift she'd want to see in the next decade: Young men understanding that the anti feminism they are largely accepting and in many cases promulgating is a manipulation. "If boys could understand that they, too, are part of progressive movements in a way that allows them to accept women as equals, and that means also equal competitors, for example, in school, then that's what I would want to see. "  Specific actions that hold the line for feminists and womanists, and the roles we have to play What practices we all use to sustain ourselves in challenging times About our guest:  Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning author and activist. As a cultural critic, she writes and speaks frequently about gender norms, social justice, free speech, sexualized violence, politics, and technology. The former Executive Director of The Representation Project and Director and co-founder of the Women's Media Center Speech Project, she has long been committed to expanding women's civic and political participation. Soraya's most recently released book, All We Want is Everything: How We Dismantle Male Supremacy, has been called "a potent rallying cry for a beleaguered feminist movement."  In it, she challenges dearly held beliefs about gender and equality today, drawing clear lines between the dynamics of intimate inequality and global anti-feminist, anti-democratic backlash and machofascism. Her first book, Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women's Anger, was recognized as a Best Book of 2018 by the Washington Post, Fast Company, Psychology Today, and NPR, and has been translated into multiple languages. She is a contributor to several anthologies, most recently Free Speech in the Digital Age and Believe Me: How Trusting Women Can Change The World.  Soraya is also a co-producer of a WMC #NameItChangeIt PSA highlighting the effects of online harassment on women in politics in America.  Her work is widely featured in the media, documentaries, books, and academic research.  As an activist, Ms. Chemaly also spearheaded several successful global campaigns challenging corporations to address online hate and harassment, restrictive content moderation and censorship, and institutional biases that undermine equity and negatively affect free speech. Before 2010, Ms. Chemaly spent more than fifteen years as an executive and consultant in the media and data technology industries.  

In an age where AI can fake a video, social platforms reward outrage, and even the word 'misinformation' means different things to different people, one question rises above the noise: how do we know what to trust?   Today, we're joined by Vanessa Otero, the lawyer-turned-media-analyst behind Ad Fontes Media and its well-known Media Bias Chart, to explore exactly that. Vanessa takes us inside the mechanics of bias, the structures driving extreme content, and the habits that actually make us smarter news consumers.  This episode is your practical guide to staying informed without getting manipulated.   What to listen for: What the Ad Fontes media bias chart looks like, and how to use it: their mission is to rate all the news to positively transform society. Knowing that there's a high correlation between high bias and low reliability Advice for media consumers who are trying to recognize bias without all the tools – including considering disbelieving everything until you can verify it through multiple sources New ways to discuss the media landscape. Example: Instead of saying "fake news" or "misinformation," which are politically charged and open to interpretation, consider using more accurate language like "misleading information" or "inaccurate information."  About our guest: Vanessa Otero is the Founder and CEO of Ad Fontes Media, the company that rates news for bias and reliability. Ms. Otero founded Ad Fontes in 2018 with a mission to rate all the news to positively transform society. She created the original Media Bias Chart in 2016, which was the seed idea for creating the company. She is passionate about bringing people together and overcoming the challenges of political polarization in our present environment. Prior to starting Ad Fontes, she practiced as a patent attorney specializing in software. Vanessa holds a B.A. in English from UCLA and a J.D. from the University of Denver.  

Are you a little worried about holiday conversations with your relatives and family members in this increasingly polarized political climate? You're not alone. Welcome to something new – a live discussion with our guest, Dr. Bill Doherty, co-founder of Braver Angels and a deeply experienced relationship therapist, coaching one of us (Sara) through how to have difficult conversations, not in theory, but with an actual extended family member who has differing political viewpoints from me. Nowadays, politics is personal. So, as much as it's tempting to bury our heads in the sand, these conversations are skills of democratic living - we can't abandon them at a family level and expect our political leaders to do it for us.  You won't want to miss the discomfort, the realizations, the tips and perspectives that can help us ALL have better, more meaningful connections and conversations with the people we love in our lives – even and especially if we don't always agree with them.  What to listen for:  What are the two types of conversation levels, and what you should do when one or both are challenged by something like a provocative question Why it's important to have difficult conversations like these 1-1, versus in a group How we approach these conversations with a "grownup" mindset, despite what we're seeing these days on a more global scale About our guest:   Bill Doherty is a Professor Emeritus in the Department of Family Social Science at the University of Minnesota. As a therapist, he focuses on couples on the brink of divorce and on political stress in relationships. He has authored 14 books for professionals and the public. Following the 2016 U.S. Presidential election, he co-founded Braver Angels, a citizen initiative bringing conservatives and liberals together to counteract political polarization and restore the fraying social fabric in American society. Bill is the chief designer of the Braver Angels workshops and has conducted workshops all over the country, including for state legislatures and Members of Congress. Braver Angels now has volunteers working in all 50 states. Among his awards is the Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Family Therapy Academy. Related episodes:  How to have uncomfortable conversations, our primer for holiday seasons How to have compassionate dialogue, with Dr Nancy Dome  

When we have repeat guests back on the pod, it's because we love them, their work, and the message that they're not only sending out into the world but embodying themselves. And we think all of this can be said a million times over for today's guest and her brand new book (out today!).   As we think about this conversation, which we can't wait for you to listen to, there were those mic drop moments, but there were also those contemplative moments where we were not only deep in conversation, but we really felt the power of this notion of uncompeting. We can't wait for you to feel this too, as you listen to our conversation with Ruchika Malholtra about her new book Uncompete and why we should all be redefining success together.   What to listen for:  What led Ruchika to coin this new term – uncompete – and what it really means, including various nuances that are important to understand Which parts of uncompeting were the hardest for each of us to integrate – liberating our bodies, redefining success, accepting joy, among them The power of community and radical generosity, as we shift our understanding of power from "power over" to emphasize "power to" What's been bringing each of us joy lately!  About our guest:   Ruchika T. Malhotra is the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm that has worked with some of the world's biggest organizations, and author of Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success. A former business journalist, she is now a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, Forbes, Bloomberg, The Seattle Times, and more.   She has held adjunct faculty positions in communications at the University of Washington and Seattle University and is the author of Inclusion on Purpose: An Intersectional Approach to Creating a Culture of Belonging at Work, MIT Press's top-selling book of 2022. Ruchika was born in Singapore and has lived in six cities across four countries. She is the Thinkers50 Radar class of 2019; Shortlisted for the 2023 Thinkers50 Talent Award; and co-wrote one of HBR.org's top 100 most-read articles in history: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. Ruchika invests in and advises various ventures as a Venture Capital limited partner and angel investor.   Related episodes: Inclusion on Purpose, with Ruchika on Dear White Women: https://www.whatdoyoumeanbythat.com/dwwepisodes/159-inclusion-on-purpose-with-ruchika-tulshyan-mwdah  On being kinder, not nicer, with Dr. Kelli Harding: https://www.whatdoyoumeanbythat.com/episodes/03-how-to-be-kinder-not-nicer-with-dr-kelli-harding  

Welcome to our first Debrief episode, where we reflect and digest what our brilliant guests shared in a prior conversation.    We were blown away by the sheer brilliance and clarity in our last episode with former litigator and political commentator Elie Mystal, author of Bad Laws and Allow Me to Retort. We've read and recommend both books, and especially want Bad Laws to get in the hands of our Democratic lawmakers for whenever (fingers crossed) they get back in power.    But say you don't have time or desire to go back and listen to a full hour of incredible insights. We pulled out some of the key quotes that hit us hard, and we're gonna get into our thoughts on them.   What to listen for?  The behind-the-scenes on why and how we ended up talking with a phenomenal legal mind, thanks to books, college reunions, and a bold podcast title What we think about the idea that we need to still teach our kids, outside of what they learn at school  That we all deeply believe that what you're doing right now is what you would have been doing during any major crisis in history – the Holocaust, the Underground Railroad. So what are you doing?  

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who's ever felt like legal talk is impossible to understand (👋 Sara included!). We're joined by Elie Mystal,  brilliant legal mind, powerful truth-teller, and New York Times bestselling author of Allow Me to Retort: A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution, to break down the complex world of American law and what Democrats are doing all wrong (and can do better) in a way that's sharp, accessible, and even funny. 💥 He's back with a bold new book: Bad Law: Ten Popular Laws That Are Ruining America. If you're fired up about the state of our country, about policy that is working frighteningly as intended, or simply want to understand how certain laws are quietly shaping (and harming) everyday life, this conversation is for you. What to listen for:  The least-legal legal chat we've ever had, including loads of straight-talking humor that makes the truth go down a little easier – on how SCOTUS operates and how we can change it, on the laws we might easily repeal to make tremendous change in our country, and more Why we might be seeing more whitewashing of history, and the truth that we are back to us all needing to educate our own children on this country's true history. That what we are (or aren't) doing now is exactly what we would have been doing during any great catastrophe in history  Practical ideas for how YOU can help dismantle harmful laws and make a difference in our country's trajectory. This episode is perfect for fans of legal analysis without the jargon, book lovers, including our former Dear White Women book club, and anyone looking to better understand (and change) our current system. 🎧 Press play, and get ready to rethink what you thought you knew about the law. About our guest:  Elie Mystal is the Justice Correspondent for The Nation, where he writes about politics and social and racial justice. Elie's first book, Allow Me To Retort – A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution, was on the NYT's bestsellers list in April 2022. His second book, Bad Law: Ten Popular Laws That Are Ruining America, was released in March 2025. Mystal was the executive editor of Above the Law, a website with approximately 2 million unique visitors that focuses on law, courts, and justice. He's known for writing about the law and politics, breaking down Supreme Court decisions, and up-to-the-minute coverage of Supreme Court confirmation battles. Off the page, Mystal is a legal contributor to the More Perfect podcast, a Radiolab spinoff, on WNYC. He's appeared regularly on MSNBC since 2018, appearing on All In With Chris Hayes, The Beat With Ari Melber, A.M. Joy with Joy Reid, and Up with David Gura. On the Radio, Mystal has been a frequent guest on the Brian Lehrer Show, the Dean Obedallah Show, and Signal Boost with Zerlina Maxwell. He's also appeared on The Mike Huckabee Show, the Megyn Kelly Show, Red Eye with Greg Gutfeld, and done various appearances on CNBC and Fox Business about legal industry news. Mystal received his undergraduate degree in Government from Harvard University, his J.D. from Harvard Law School, and worked as an associate at Debevoise and Plimpton from 2003-2005.  

Whether you've ever been a boss or have ever had a boss, you know how much those singular individuals can shape the workplace. According to studies, a good manager can increase employee engagement by as much as 70%. And, according to a survey by the American Psychological Association, a whopping 75% of employees report their boss as the worst and most stressful part of their jobs.  So, how do we know if we're being a good boss or a bad boss?  Do we just know, or should we be looking out for specific things?   Enter the incredible stories that focus on what good leaders can learn from bad bosses, featuring the author of the brand-new book, The Devil Emails at Midnight, Mita Mallick.   What to listen for: The importance of time in creating a healthier workplace culture Accountability - and how to hold others accountable, as well as check in with yourself What boss archetypes Mita has found most personally challenging  The keys to being a good boss  About our guest   Mita Mallick is a Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author. She's on a mission to fix what's broken in our workplaces. She's a corporate change-maker with a track record of transforming businesses and has had an extensive career as a marketing and human resources executive. Mallick has brought her talent and expertise to companies like Unilever, Pfizer, AVON, Johnson & Johnson, Carta, and more. She's a highly sought-after speaker and business coach to start-up founders, executives, and CEOs of public companies. Her highly anticipated second book, "The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses," comes out September 30, 2025.    For more about the book or to purchase The Devil Emails at Midnight:  What Good Leaders Can Learn From Bad Bosses, click here:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1394316488