How to grow without ads, algorithms, or cold outreach

Show notes Copy "No one cares what your name is." They care what you stand for. In this episode Keith Perhac talks with Josh Ramsey about the gap between what AI marketing promises and what it delivers. Josh explains why small business owners can't do their own AI marketing, why companies pick agencies for the wrong reasons, and how he turned decades of marketing experience into a set of laws he gives away for free. Keith adds why AI only becomes a superpower when you bring taste and process, and why it fills in the blanks when it doesn't have the data. About Josh Ramsey Josh is the founder of JRCMO and Strategic Point Marketing. He has worked in marketing since 1998, starting in traditional media (radio, TV, print, billboards, transit ads), and has placed $1.5 billion in media. He steps into companies as their chief marketing officer and interviews the ad agencies they hire. Topics discussed Agencies selling AI to small businesses, and a contractor paying $4,000 to $5,000 just to talk to a lead Why AI isn't magic: garbage in, garbage out Choosing a marketer because he flies on a private plane and drives a Lamborghini Taste and process: the two things that make AI a superpower The girlfriend effect: why no one cares about your name until they know what you stand for Using AI to grade your marketing against a set of rules, and what to do with the result Why AI fills in the blanks, and the 400,000 words it would take to sound like you Test before you invest, and ROI as "result of investment" How AI is removing middle management, and what that means for small agencies and the trades Why every business still needs a tastemaker Paying people at a mall $5 for five minutes to test a jewelry company's marketing Key takeaways AI makes good work better and faster, but it is still garbage in, garbage out. Sell your unique selling position before your name. Test a strategy with a little money before you commit to it: you're never guaranteed a return, but you're always guaranteed a result. If AI doesn't have the information, it fills in the blanks. Check the data behind an answer instead of just trusting it. One person can't have taste for everything. Someone has to be watching the AI. Ask an outside audience what they feel, instead of going on how you feel about your own marketing. Where to find Josh Search "Josh Ramsey marketing", or look for the JRCMO brain in Claude. His laws are free on his website. Chapters (00:00:00) - Agencies selling AI to small businesses(00:01:53) - Introductions(00:03:07) - AI isn't magic: garbage in, garbage out(00:06:40) - When a client wants the flashier agency(00:08:55) - Taste and process make AI a superpower(00:10:37) - The girlfriend effect(00:14:11) - Using AI to grade your marketing(00:20:22) - Why AI fills in the blanks(00:24:22) - Test before you invest(00:28:29) - AI and the $500-a-month agency(00:33:22) - Why you still need a tastemaker(00:37:07) - A jewelry company and a mall test(00:40:28) - Where to find Josh

Your next big client is already watching your videos. You just can't see them.Before they sign up, book a call, or reach out, high-value buyers do their homework. They search your name plus "reviews" or "legit," watch your YouTube videos on a Sunday night, and check out your About page. They don't like, comment, or subscribe — so none of it shows up in your funnel. That's the invisible pipeline, and most businesses aren't built for it. In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac talks with Ian Garlic, founder of Video Case Story, who helps attorneys, coaches, and other experts land bigger clients with YouTube. They dig into why time with your client is a better metric than views, the videos you need everywhere buyers check you out, why simple, repeated content beats clever content, and how to treat YouTube like your website as AI reshapes search. If you sell a high-value service and your videos feel like they're disappearing into the void, this one's for you. About the Guest:Ian Garlic is the founder of Video Case Story, where he helps experts and trusted authorities — from attorneys and dentists to clients like Gino Wickman — land bigger clients using YouTube. His approach starts with customer stories, then turns them into videos that show prospects exactly how you work and why you're different, placed everywhere buyers go to check you out. Connect with Ian on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/iangarlic/) or at Video Case Story (https://www.videocasestory.com/). Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. Why Choose SegMetrics?- Instant clarity on what is and isn't working in your business- Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue- Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today:- Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/- Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing- Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet Ian Garlic(00:02:28) - How AI is changing video and search(00:04:06) - Why search is moving to YouTube and Reddit(00:08:17) - Time with your client is the number one metric(00:08:55) - The two minute malpractice study(00:09:58) - Curation is the new trust(00:12:26) - Optimizing for views you don’t want(00:14:58) - Where to start with video(00:16:50) - The biggest video mistakes experts make(00:18:00) - Why simple, repeated content wins(00:22:34) - How repetition affects AI search(00:25:42) - The fish in the barrel strategy(00:27:52) - Reviewing the SegMetrics search results(00:31:31) - Deconstructing a webinar for YouTube(00:32:53) - Do you need visuals or B-roll?(00:34:45) - Why AI design all looks the same(00:36:28) - Keith’s AI data analysis fail(00:38:16) - Treat YouTube like your website(00:42:48) - Running high intent ads to videos(00:44:30) - Ad costs and generic AI content(00:48:25) - Where to find Ian Garlic

Google said the campaigns were doing 8x ROAS. The bank account said otherwise. Broken conversion tracking, inflated branded results, and agencies that barely log in can make a money-losing Google Ads account look like a winner. So how do you know if your ads are actually working? In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac talks with David Pourquery, founder of Groas, whose AI agents manage about $35M a month in Google Ads spend. They dig into why Google Ads got so much harder, the one report that shows whether your agency is doing anything, and the two levers that still decide whether your ads work at all. If you run ads, manage them for clients, or pay someone else to, this one's for you. About the Guest:David Pourquery is the founder and CEO of Groas, an autonomous AI agent for managing Google Ads. Groas's network of agents manages around $35M a month in ad spend, trained on optimization patterns from more than $500B in Google Ads spend. Before Groas, David was a private equity investor at HIG Capital and built a portfolio of seven-figure e-commerce brands. Groas is fully bootstrapped. Connect with David on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidpourquery) or at Groas.com (https://www.groas.com). ABOUT SEGMETRICS Why Choose SegMetrics?- Instant clarity on what is and isn't working in your business- Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue- Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today:- Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/- Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing- Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo#googleads #ppc #roas #segmetrics Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet David(00:02:21) - Why Google Ads got so much harder(00:03:48) - Google’s incentives vs. yours(00:07:36) - From recommendations tool to full autonomy(00:08:38) - Working with smaller ad budgets(00:10:52) - The most common account misconfigurations(00:14:06) - Audit your account with Claude(00:15:46) - Is Performance Max making things better?(00:17:58) - Does retargeting still have a place?(00:19:46) - Testing ChatGPT ads(00:21:16) - Why AI-built landing pages turn people off(00:23:54) - Where humans still matter in PPC(00:28:45) - How to tell if your agency is doing anything(00:31:18) - Should you run branded ads?(00:33:05) - How to stand out when everyone uses the same AI(00:34:52) - Getting social proof right(00:36:50) - How to find David Pourquery

AI is trained to be average. So how can you deliver above-average marketing at AI-speeds? In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac sits down with Brandon Shelton — who drove a record $28M year as CMO of GearBubble, scaled it past $165M as CEO, and now builds AI systems for growth teams. They break down what separates real AI leverage from expensive AI busywork. If you already use AI but suspect you're leaving results on the table, this one's for you. Brandon Shelton is the founder of Buddy Prompt and builds AI systems for marketing and growth teams. He's been in marketing since 2007, working with B2C and B2B software companies as a CMO, chief growth officer, and CEO. As CMO of GearBubble he drove a record $28M year, then stepped into the CEO seat and scaled the company past $165M in total revenue — and has been working on getting above AI's "average line" since 2022. Connect with Brandon on LinkedIn (linkedin.com/in/brandonshelton1) or at BuddyPrompt.com. ABOUT SEGMETRICS Why Choose SegMetrics?• Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business• Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue• Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today:• Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/• Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing• Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo Chapters (00:00:00) - AI is trained to be average(00:01:01) - Meet Brandon and his AI journey(00:05:06) - How the AI landscape is settling down(00:07:32) - Where AI helps marketing and where it's just slop(00:10:12) - How to make AI write like you(00:14:19) - AI gives you drafts, not finished work(00:18:26) - Getting real leverage with a folder structure(00:22:18) - Organizing your prompts and building Buddy Prompt(00:26:38) - Why AI forgets what you tell it(00:29:52) - How Brandon uses AI agents(00:33:22) - The prompt that stops AI from agreeing with you(00:35:49) - Where small teams should start with AI(00:40:17) - Staying systematic instead of chasing hype(00:43:01) - Why chasing every new AI tool wastes time(00:45:12) - Pick an ecosystem and stick with it

Your website ranks for your name. The problem is, nobody who'd hire you is searching your name. They're searching your topic — or asking AI who to hire. If you're not the answer to that search, your site isn't working, no matter how polished it looks. So how do coaches and speakers actually get discovered now? In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac talks with Benas Leonavicius, founder of Avium, a search and AI visibility expert for people instead of companies. They dig into why ranking for your name is useless, why AI search is easier to win than everyone thinks, and the one habit that keeps most experts off every shortlist — being too scattered to be known for a single thing. If your reputation is bigger offline than it is online, this episode is about closing that gap. Show Notes [00:00] Meet Benas [00:49] How Benas got into personal branding [05:55] Why you need a personal website for AI [10:29] AI search feels like old Google [13:43] Build versus rent for personal brands [17:34] What Avium does for speakers and founders [19:47] When founders get too scattered [22:52] Why being known for one thing wins [24:40] How long it takes someone to buy [30:41] Does an email list still matter [32:39] How to get started without burning out [37:34] What if you don't like posting online [44:02] Being human beats AI content [46:06] Benas's biggest takeaway [48:33] Where to find Benas Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. About the Guest: Benas Leonavicius is the founder of Avium, a personal-branding agency that builds online visibility for keynote speakers, book authors, and founders whose real-world authority outpaces their online presence. A longtime SEO specialist, he shifted from ranking companies to ranking people — engineering a client's website, LinkedIn, and podcast presence into one system where each channel lifts the others. His clients include names like Jay Baer and Dr. David Burkus. Connect with Benas at Avium (https://avium.vip/) or on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/benasleo/). ABOUT SEGMETRICS Why Choose SegMetrics? Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today: Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/ Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing Book a demo: Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet Benas(00:00:49) - How Benas got into personal branding(00:05:55) - Why you need a personal website for AI(00:10:29) - AI search feels like old Google(00:13:43) - Build versus rent for personal brands(00:17:34) - What Avium does for speakers and founders(00:19:47) - When founders get too scattered(00:22:52) - Why being known for one thing wins(00:24:40) - How long it takes someone to buy(00:30:41) - Does an email list still matter(00:32:39) - How to get started without burning out(00:37:34) - What if you don't like posting online(00:44:02) - Being human beats AI content(00:46:06) - Benas's biggest takeaway(00:48:33) - Where to find Benas

More than half of your new leads may never see a single email you send.It’s not your subject line, offer or copy. It's something happening silently before your email ever reaches an inbox. In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac talks with Adrian Savage, co-founder of EmailSmart and one of the sharpest minds in inbox visibility. They dig into why the open rate you're tracking is probably lying to you, the single most-overlooked engagement metric, and why blasting your entire list could be quietly wrecking the one marketing asset you actually own. If email is core to how you sell — and it should be — this episode will change how you read your own numbers. Show Notes[00:00] Introduction[00:53] Catching up with Adrian[01:34] How Adrian got into email deliverability[02:52] How email deliverability rules have changed[04:23] Why deliverability is such a confusing word[05:54] Why you can't measure if an email is actually seen[08:31] Getting people to rescue emails from spam[12:44] Tracking engagement instead of guessing[14:43] The 30-day metric nobody tracks[16:50] A real launch that failed from bad visibility[19:41] Attention spans and the point of no return[22:21] Reply rates, sending addresses, and domain reputation[28:20] Cold outreach and staying under Google's radar[30:44] The future of AI and personalized email[35:30] “List size is vanity. Engagement is sanity.”[40:06] Why AI can't handle deliverability[44:18] Where to find Adrian Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. About the Guest:Adrian Savage is co-founder of EmailSmart, maker of the Deliverability Dashboard, where he helps senders diagnose email visibility problems that mailbox providers won't reveal. He’s analyzed thousands of email accounts and pioneered rolling 30-day engagement tracking as a way to measure list health that open rate alone can't capture. Connect with Adrian at EmailSmart (https://emailsmart.com/). Why Choose SegMetrics?• Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business• Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue• Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today:• Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/• Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing• Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo #email #deliverability #marketinganalytics #emailsmart #segmetrics Chapters (00:00:00) - Introduction(00:00:53) - Catching up with Adrian(00:01:34) - How Adrian got into email deliverability(00:02:52) - How email deliverability rules have changed(00:04:23) - Why deliverability is such a confusing word(00:05:54) - Why you can't measure if an email is actually seen(00:08:31) - Getting people to rescue emails from spam(00:12:44) - Tracking engagement instead of guessing(00:14:43) - The 30-day metric nobody tracks(00:16:50) - A real launch that failed from bad visibility(00:19:41) - Attention spans and the point of no return(00:22:21) - Reply rates, sending addresses, and domain reputation(00:28:20) - Cold outreach and staying under Google's radar(00:30:44) - The future of AI and personalized email(00:35:30) - "List size is vanity. Engagement is sanity."(00:40:06) - Why AI can't handle deliverability(00:44:18) - Where to find Adrian

Is your retention making or breaking your lifetime revenue? After the first purchase, most e-commerce brands go quiet — or start blasting discount codes. But the brands that win long-term treat every purchase as the beginning of a relationship, not the end of one. In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac sits down with Ishita Agarwal — founder of Tapp — to dig into why retention is the biggest untapped lever in business, why CAC math is breaking for most brands, and what it actually looks like to turn one-time buyers into loyal fans. What you'll discover: Why your retention tools are only working for 10% of your customers — and what to do about the other 90% From customer to member: the post-purchase mindset shift that changes everything Why discount codes are the wrong retention lever (and what drives real brand loyalty) The CAC math that's quietly bankrupting e-commerce brands — and the LTV fix most brands are ignoring How NFC tags outperform QR codes by 40x — and why physical packaging is an underrated engagement channel About the Guest: Ishita Agarwal is the founder of Tapp, a post-purchase engagement platform that helps e-commerce brands turn one-time buyers into loyal fans. With roots in M&A consulting and emerging technology, she went on to study design and behavioral science at Stanford before zeroing in on the post-purchase gap in commerce. Ishita brings a tech-world playbook — onboarding flows, habit loops, and gamification — to the e-commerce brands that need it most. Connect with Ishita at thetapp.io or on LinkedIn. About SegMetrics: Why Choose SegMetrics?  Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today: Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/ Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet Ishita Agarwal(00:01:15) - How she got into e-commerce(00:04:59) - Why retention is so broken in e-com(00:07:08) - The math isn't mathing — CAC vs LTV(00:09:01) - Customers vs members(00:11:14) - What Tapp actually does(00:14:38) - Engagement numbers and what they mean(00:17:01) - NFC tags and the omnichannel opportunity(00:20:14) - What brands do with the data(00:22:06) - How personalization works over time(00:27:36) - How engagement turns into sales(00:28:55) - The rewards model (and why discounts don't cut it)(00:32:03) - Stories that make it click — Solidcore and Nintendo Club(00:36:05) - Connecting with customers through Amazon's black box(00:40:20) - The biggest mistake brands make(00:45:42) - The Weber Grill principle(00:47:32) - Where to find Ishita

Why does every marketing channel feel broken right now?⚠️ Ads are expensive. SEO is getting buried under AI overviews. Cold outreach is noise. So what actually works? Turns out, it's the same thing that worked before Facebook ads existed: relationships and owned distribution. In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac sits down with Greg Digneo — founder of Content Guppy and a 20-year marketing veteran — to break down the owned distribution revolution. Greg makes the case that one good partnership conversation can replace a thousand cold emails, why founder-led content consistently outperforms polished marketing, and how to build a growth engine that doesn't break every time an algorithm changes. E-commerce success means learning the new rules for trust, security and growth in 2026 What you'll discover: Three street-tested strategies to grow your email list (even if you’re starting small) How to take control of your own distribution (no more “walled gardens” or “Google Tax”) Strategies to streamline founder-led content with AI How to measure the value of different lead sources Show Notes[00:00] Meet Greg Digneo [02:00] How cheap Facebook ads killed affiliate marketing [03:00] The partnership revolution [06:13] What a modern partnership looks like [09:31] Why the internet is becoming a walled garden [13:53] How Google killed the affiliate listicle game [17:43] Owned distribution explained [19:32] What most people get wrong about their email list [20:46] How Greg actually builds owned distribution [24:27] Finding qualified leads hiding in your email list [27:00] One to one to many [28:18] How creators vs SaaS think about owned distribution [29:00] Why the old SaaS playbook is breaking down[32:21] How SegMetrics turned off $15K in ads and grew [33:46] When Greg stopped recommending SEO [36:04] People follow people, not brands [38:00] Parasocial relationships and founder-led content [40:22] Founders who get out there grow faster [42:02] How to create content when you hate creating content [44:40] Repurposing conversations into newsletters and posts [45:49] How to use AI to streamline founder-led content[49:41] Where to find Greg Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. About the Guest:Greg Digneo is the founder of Content Guppy, which helps B2B SaaS companies grow through owned distribution and organic visibility. With 20+ years of marketing experience, Greg has evolved Content Guppy from a traditional SEO agency into a partnership-first growth model — helping SaaS brands build audience presence that outlasts algorithm changes and paid ad volatility. Connect with Greg on LinkedIn or at Content Guppy. About SegMetrics: Why Choose SegMetrics?• Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business• Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue• Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Learn more https://segmetrics.io/ Get Started Today:• Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/• Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing• Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo #partnerships #growthmarketing #SEO #ai #segmetrics Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet Greg Digneo(00:02:00) - How cheap Facebook ads killed affiliate marketing(00:03:00) - The partnership revolution(00:06:13) - What a modern partnership looks like(00:09:31) - Why the internet is becoming a walled garden(00:13:53) - How Google killed the affiliate listicle game(00:17:43) - Owned distribution explained(00:19:32) - What most people get wrong about their email list(00:20:46) - How Greg actually builds owned distribution(00:24:27) - Finding qualified leads hiding in your email list(00:27:00) - One to one to many(00:28:18) - How creators vs SaaS think about owned distribution(00:29:00) - Why the old SaaS playbook is breaking down(00:32:21) - How SegMetrics turned off $15K in ads and grew(00:33:46) - When Greg stopped recommending SEO(00:36:04) - People follow people, not brands(00:38:00) - Parasocial relationships and founder-led content(00:40:22) - Founders who get out there grow faster(00:42:02) - How to create content when you hate creating content(00:44:40) - Repurposing conversations into newsletters and posts(00:45:49) - How to use AI to streamline founder-led content(00:49:41) - Where to find Greg

“Is your website just a billboard?” In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac sits down with Brennan Dunn, founder of RightMessage. They explore the future of personalization and segmentation-based marketing. If you’re not personalizing your marketing, then yes, your website IS just a billboard. As are your emails. Are you ready to see how you can double conversions with some simple, automated techniques? What you'll discover: How to find hidden leaks in your marketing How to design questionnaires that get 80+% completion rates Shifting from generic funnels to customized product orbits Advanced personalization & segmentation tricks Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. About the Guest: Brennan Dunn is the founder of RightMessage, a platform that helps SaaS and Creator businesses personalize their websites and emails based on who’s visiting. He’s spent years helping marketers move beyond one-size-fits-all funnels by using zero-party data, real-time segmentation, and smart automation to deliver more relevant, higher-converting customer experiences. Connect with Brennan via LinkedIn or RightMessage About SegMetrics: Why Choose SegMetrics? Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today: Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/  Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing  Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo Chapters (00:00:00) - Meet Brennan(00:01:45) - How personalization works(00:03:57) - The power of segmentation(00:06:53) - Seeing your audience as individuals(00:08:49) - The cause of generic copy(00:11:01) - It doesn't take much personalization...(00:13:00) - Surveys don't work. Do this instead.(00:17:10) - Why open data tools give you more power(00:18:10) - How to handle underperforming segments(00:21:05) - Product orbits vs product funnels(00:23:26) - Advanced personalization marketing(00:27:08) - Integrating personalization tools(00:28:50) - How to market really powerful tools(00:31:54) - Advanced ad personalization tactics(00:35:11) - Cross-device syncing — oh yeah!(00:36:49) - Improved affiliate attribution(00:38:22) - The power of a scalable personalization engine(00:40:18) - How is AI changing advertising & marketing?(00:47:23) - The future of marketing(00:48:49) - How to find Brennan

Is comedy the secret to conversion copywriting? In this episode of Data Beats Opinion, SegMetrics founder Keith Perhac sits down with Lianna Patch (founder of Punchline Copy) to how brands can use humor and personality to stand out in an increasingly competitive market. What you'll discover: Why humor is the last marketing differentiator in the AI age The humor spectrum (where do you fall?) Comedy conversion tricks How to find and develop your brand voice Subscribe for monthly episodes covering conversion optimization, content strategy, copywriting, and other growth tactics that actually move the needle. About the Guest: Lianna Patch is the founder of Punchline Copy. A former standup comedian and improv performer, she specializes in using humor to drive conversions for SaaS and e-commerce businesses. Lianna is also co-founder of SaaS Marketing Gym and a TinySeed mentor. Connect with Lianna via LinkedIn or Punchline Copy. About SegMetrics: Why Choose SegMetrics? Instant clarity on what is and isn’t working in your business Full-funnel analytics that lets you optimize every marketing touch point for revenue Unify your cross-platform data into a single source of truth Better data → Smarter decisions → Faster growth. Accelerate your growth with SegMetrics. Get Started Today: Learn how SegMetrics can uncover your hidden profits: https://segmetrics.io/  Start a 14-day free trial: https://segmetrics.io/pricing  Book a demo: https://segmetrics.io/book-a-demo Chapters (00:00:00) - Intro and the origins of Punchline Copy(00:05:36) - Why humor is the last marketing differentiator in the AI age(00:08:01) - The humor spectrum: from wholesome to Cards Against Humanity(00:12:40) - Building cohesive brand voice across the entire customer journey(00:15:45) - The conversion comedy process(00:18:10) - Psychology of humor and the "one joke per paragraph" rule(00:22:35) - Does anyone read long copy?(00:29:13) - Unexpected results: successes, failures, and finding the edge(00:31:29) - 96% conversion improvements? Measuring humor effectiveness(00:36:35) - How do you find your brand voice?(00:38:51) - Handy copywriting formulas(00:42:02) - Avoiding played-out humor trends(00:44:55) - Safe humor techniques: observational and self-deprecating comedy(00:47:15) - SaaS Marketing Gym