Grey spend - the messy middle between Services & Contingent Workforce

With Linc Markham, Executive Workforce Solutions AdvisorThe messy middle where services procurement and contingent labour overlap, is where value quietly leaks through misclassified work, duplicated outsourcing, and runaway change requests. AI, requisition-stage data, and stronger cross-team partnering are making this spend possible to spot, quantify, and route the right way.11:09 - What grey spend actually is and why it matters18:11 - Why it pays & matching work to the right channel28:57 - Quantifying it & deciding how the work gets done44:19 - The new grey spend: SaaS and AI agents51:05 - Breaking silos & partnering for a win-win

With Sam Smith, President, PontoonExploring how AI, workforce strategy, and evolving MSP models are reshaping the future of work. From services procurement and talent management to leadership and innovation, looking at how businesses can build smarter, more agile workforce solutions while keeping people at the center of transformation.15:52 - The Rise of The Agentic MSP39:54 - Utilizing Skills and Moving Towards Total Talent Management48:38 - MSP and Technology Value01:02:14 - Simplifying Services Complexity01:17:20 - Suppliers and Strategic Workforce Planning

The shift from contingent labor to total talent management is reshaping how organisations approach services procurement. AI, data, and stronger oversight are enabling better control, visibility, and value from complex services spend.With Betty Sweetman, Indirect Procurement Leader04:31 - How AI Helps Address Complexity in Services17:30 - From Contingent Labour to Outcomes in Total Talent Management30:45 - Sourcing and Alignment in Services Procurement52:11 - The Structural Bias Toward Direct Procurement59:44 - Why Services Procurement can be a Competitive Advantage When Leveraged Properly

When services are clearly defined upfront, organisations gain more control, better outcomes and stronger partnerships. This discussion examines what needs to change early to support scalable, effective services procurement.With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon00:02:11 - Creating services procurement conversations00:11:34 - The importance of a full services lifecycle00:24:52 - The current services procurement tech landscape00:36:04 - Leveraging the most suitable tech00:49:44 - Achieving 'best fit' for innovation and agility

Many organizations are still early in their services procurement maturity journey. This podcast explores how starting small and evolving over time can unlock value and build the foundation for more advanced supplier sourcing, analytics, and governance in services.With Joe David, Services Procurement & Contigent Workforce SME09:51 - The evolution of services procurement understanding 45:56 - Moving towards maturity in services procurement54:39 - The possibilities in transforming the way you procure services01:10:17 - How AI and technology can help to move the services procurement market forward01:18:41 - Why operational service excellence is critical

Services procurement often evolves without a clear operating model, leaving spend fragmented and hard to govern. This conversation breaks down how to build the foundations, from intake and data to ownership and change management, that make services procurement work in practice.With Erin Shwiff, Director Operations, Transformation & Strategic Initiatives, Western Union 15:42 - 24:06 - The importance of data and centralization in services procurement34:26 - 44:32 - Building your business case and making things happen 44:32 - 54:08 - Bringing skills into services procurement54:12-01:05:07 - Creating understanding and buy-in01:11:48 - 01:01:20:06 - Where MSPs could be offering strategic value in Services Procurement

Making the right services procurement choices starts with understanding what needs to be delivered and where capability should sit. Organisations must weigh internal capability, external expertise, timelines, cost and risk to choose the approach that best fits the work.With Noel Lai-Kit, Head of Services Procurement, London Stock Exchange Group05:48 - 16:29 - Adaptability and evolution in services procurement24:43 - 33:49 - The value of problem solving and strategy in services procurement34:01 - 43:18 - Services & people - the grey areas in between43:18 - 49:02 - The services procurement lifecycle49:52 - 01:02:43 - The importance of data in services procurement

As services procurement grows, organisations struggle with limited visibility into who is delivering work and how value is measured. The conversation examines why that gap creates friction between procurement and the business, and what stronger governance enables.With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon12:29 - 19:10 - The main services procurement issues in the market20:19 - 29:21 - Why are people struggling to get started29:50 - 35:45 - The benefits of tackling services procurement41:42 - 51:27 - The services visibility gap57:03 - 01:02:21 - Bridging the services procurement gap

A holistic approach to services procurement looks beyond individual transactions to how work, data and accountability connect across the organisation. Having a broader view is critical for managing complexity, risk and value in services spend.With Patti Vora, Independent Consultant01:40 - The journey through Sourcing to Contingent & Services Procurement 20:16 - Focusing on the PO doesn't give the full picture 37:32 - Why organisations struggle to get value from professional services 55:20 - The essential nature of control in services procurement 01:03:47 - Data and supplier performance - the keys to strategy 

Managing services effectively requires different thinking than managing contingent labour or goods. Clear ownership, fit-for-purpose processes and realistic expectations are key to making services procurement work.With David Orme, Global Head, Services Procurement, Pontoon.18:02-23:59 - Why services demand different thinking24:52-31:18 - The importance of data in services procurement40:42-51:40 - Managing stakeholder resistance59:23-01:04:45 - The key drivers for better managing services procurement01:06:46-01:11:26 - Services procurement wins at Cox