Lisa Kibutu of Regenerative Fashion Collaborative Exchange (REFACE) on developing textiles in Africa from Indigenous agricultural waste and embracing AI (ancestral intelligence)

In Episode 335, Kestrel welcomes Lisa Kibutu, the founder of Regenerative Fashion Collaborative Exchange (REFACE) and Regenerative Textile Development Institute (RTDI), to the show. A tech-led social enterprise, REFACE was created to holistically address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa. With RTDI, she is building a pioneering research and development institution that leverages blockchain technology, zero waste operations, and regenerative agriculture to transform agricultural waste from Indigenous grain crops into high-quality textile yarn. “You're standing in this space, the gap between what society is expecting of you and what your soul insists on you to become. And it influences all my work and my obligation to the sacrifice of our ancestors, the sacrifice that they made to the colonizers, which is why we are where we are today. I sit on ancestral intelligence, which is the blueprint and the foundation of everything that I do. A little bit more than a blueprint to me – I am actually just going to claim my inheritance from the ancestors. And that claiming of the inheritance has become my purpose.” -Lisa THEME —WHEN *REGENERATIVE* MEANS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUZZWORD The following is a very important statistic that is rarely centered in the so-called sustainability and fashion conversation — as reported by the UNEP, Africa contributes less than 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions. At the same time, the continent has been disproportionately impacted by the changing climate.  With this in mind, in conjunction with her knowledge in fashion, design, anthropology and regenerative agriculture – Lisa founded a powerful two-prong approach to not only address the negative impact of the global fashion industry on climate change, biodiversity, and the environment in Africa, but also – to strategically research and develop innovative textiles made from the waste of Indigenous crops, and to maintain ownership of these technologies within the continent.  Africa has a unique potential at this point in our history – especially when it comes to regenerative agriculture, with 80% of all the food production in Africa being run by smallholder farmers.  The opportunities across Africa are expansive. And as Lisa reminds us, it’s not about empowerment. It’s about following the blueprint from AI – that is ancestral intelligence – and focusing on enriching communities across the continent.  “You’re right. Fashion is cultural. Cause you’ve moved from the basic need of covering according to weather patterns, and then you advance to the space where – you need to appeal to aesthetics. That’s the next level. But aesthetics are particular to what you find in your environment and then it becomes artistic expression, personal expression of yourself. And I think those are the pieces now, when we talk about fast fashion – those are the pieces that are missing.” -Lisa RTDI Website Follow REFACE on Instagram

In Episode 334, Kestrel welcomes Emily Mikhaiel, the cofounder and creative director of Nazeerah, to the show. A clothing brand inspired by the legacy of her grandmother, Nazeerah supports organic and regenerative farming practices to honor Egyptian cotton, and produces locally in Egypt to maintain direct relationships with their suppliers and reduce their carbon footprint. “There really wasn't waste while my father was growing up. Everything was either composted or if it was metal, it was recycled or reused or repurposed. If a garment was no longer wearable, they'd cut it up into strips and weave carpets out of it. And once the carpet was no longer usable, they'd cut it up again and compost it. So using that knowledge and thinking, you know, as a society, we've existed without plastics for millennia. Why can't we return to that and draw inspiration from that in our design?” -Emily SEPTEMBER THEME —WHEN *REGENERATIVE* MEANS SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUZZWORD This week’s episode is focused largely on a regenerative approach to making clothes – one that includes thinking about the end of life of the garment at the design process, where organic cotton farming is centered, not only to help maintain soil health, but also to enhance biodiversity and restore carbon to the soil, and where local production is prioritized. Without sounding like a broken record, it’s important to acknowledge how this word – regenerative – has undoubtedly become another buzzword that’s taken fashion by storm. We’ve seen countless brands integrate it into their marketing messaging, and it’s becoming more and more utilized across the space as the “new way” to talk about building a more sustainable brand.  HOWEVER – it’s very key to note that regenerative is by no means a new concept. As we’ve touched on in past episodes, it is rooted in Indigenous knowledge, in traditional ways of farming and ancestral ways of growing plants and being in conversion with the Earth. This week’s guest has deep family ties to cotton and garment making in Egypt. As she shares with us, Egypt has a unique history connected to cotton farming that for generations, was intrinsically linked to the natural rhythms of the Nile River.  Through her brand, she is not only honoring her ancestors’ connection to the land, but also supporting farmers who are reclaiming what regenerative cotton farming can look like today.  Nazeerah Website Follow Nazeerah on Instagram

In Episode 333, Kestrel welcomes Cate Havstad-Casad, a designer, entrepreneur, and first-generation regenerative rancher, to the show. Cate’s work as a designer and land steward has evolved a great deal since she founded Havstad Hat Company in 2014. Today she manages Casad Family Farms with her husband, while building Range Revolution, a luxury leather goods brand focused on using 100% American, regeneratively sourced hides. “I love the idea of having things forever. I love the idea of a great leather boot being resoled again and again. My work in hats, I'm like the anti-growth capitalist. I'm like, you should have two hats, maybe three and that should be it for your whole life and you send it back to me and I will re-block it and clean it up and reshape it for you. That is the world of craft that I come from and so I bring that ethos to this work with Range Revolution and leathers.” -Cate AUGUST THEME — WELCOMING THE IN-BETWEENS IN LIFE, SUSTAINABILITY & FASHION This week’s episode touches on a discourse that often fuels a lot of really intense reactions. I remember moderating a panel discussion about it in Berlin during fashion week that got very heated, and even recently, I hosted an Earth Day event in San Francisco, where the conversation suddenly got intense when this topic arose.  If you guessed it – I’m talking about the oh-so-familiar LEATHER debate.  There’s a recurring dispute in the sustainability and fashion space that pins animal-based leather against vegan leather. It’s often very this vs that oriented, and focuses on claiming which is quote unquote more “sustainable” than the other.  A lot of the time, things get heated because leather is intrinsically linked to peoples’ belief systems and values, which can leave very little space for the in-between. And I totally get where that passion stems from. At the same time, if you’ve been listening to Conscious Chatter over the years, you know there are no simple answers when it comes to the complexities of making products. And I don’t think there is ever only one solution – we need to discover multifaceted approaches, considering the challenges we face with the climate crisis.  From her lens as a craftsperson, designer and regenerative rancher, this week’s guest is dedicated to rethinking waste in the animal agriculture space. One significant stat we learn from her is that – almost 5 million hides are wasted or thrown away annually in the United States alone. *source: Agriculture Utilization Research Institute With a mindset that “the most radical fibers are the ones that already exist” – she is pushing to disrupt the leather industry. For her, it’s all about centering traceability, rethinking waste, and expanding the meaning of regenerative to not only include the land health, but also the health and wellbeing of the surrounding community.  “We don’t have regenerative outcomes on land if the people working within the systems. whether it be the land stewards or the people within the community that support those land stewards — if the community dynamics, if the economic dynamics are not also regenerative.” (15:40) Range Revolution Website Follow Cate on Instagram Follow Range Revolution on Instagram This week’s episode is brought to you by Range Revolution. Enjoy 15% off at RangeRevolution.com with code CHATTER.

Episode 332 features Kestrel (just me!) in the second-ever solo episode of the show. With a focus on Kestrel’s reemergence after having her second child, she shares some of the things that have been on her mind during this postpartum era, the power of sorting, what “release” has meant to her over this last year, what she’s shedding and what’s she’s embracing. It’s very personal, raw and vulnerable — one of the ways Kestrel always loves to connect with you all. “Maybe this whole episode is sounding disconnected from what you generally hear in the sustainability and fashion realm. But – if you’ve been around for a while, you know that I am not exactly the voice of the typical narrative. I like to push beyond binaries. I want to explore the nuances. I don’t want to put people, things or ideas into boxes. These in-betweens are where SO MUCH can thrive, if we let it and give it space to breathe.” -Kestrel  August THEME — WELCOMING THE IN-BETWEENS IN LIFE, SUSTAINABILITY & FASHION When I started the show back in 2016, I never thought I would be into doing solo episodes. My mind was clear that I wanted to welcome guests onto the show and to really focus on learning, listening and sharing multifaceted ideas from solutionists working at the intersections of fashion and sustainability.  And that general intention hasn’t wavered. BUT surprisingly, in moments of change or transition, I have felt pulled to connect with you all on my own – just me and my thoughts. It gives me the chance to connect in a really honest, personal, and vulnerable way. It’s maybe weird, but I almost feel like having a podcast – a space to dump my thoughts, musings, learnings, challenges – it’s really cathartic, and at times, healing as well.  Throughout this brief episode, you’ll hear: + Welcoming a new baby + Honoring the mothers in Gaza + Postpartum shifts — the importance of sorting, releasing, and closing doors + Creating space — what prioritizing looks like with two kids + Rooting more deeply into my truth — a new endeavor & a book project Links & quotes from the show: Gaza on my mind — IG post by Evelyn Escobar (@evelynnworld) that Kestrel highlights Organizations and resources to support mothers and families in Gaza — The Sameer Project Healing Our Homeland Free Kitchen Gaza We Feed Gaza Heal Palestine Medical Aid For Palestine USA For UNFP Anera “THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. The fact that we can have this space to share openly about so many things that make us human is an absolute blessing. When I initially started this show to simply talk about fashion and sustainability – I never imagined I would learn so much about who I am and who I want to be in the world. Turns out – sustainability starts with each one of us. Looking in the mirror and getting clear about ourselves, tuning into our communities that surround us, leading with curiosity and care, and above all – thoughtfully questioning everything along the way.” Follow Kestrel (Conscious Chatter) on Instagram

In Episode 331, Kestrel welcomes Ben Mead, the Managing Director of Hohenstein Institute America, to the show. In Ben’s role, he serves as the company’s liaison with government agencies, industry collaborations and trade associations, and he also oversees OEKO-TEX® responsibilities for the U.S. “You can’t make any real good decision around chemistry or you know how a product is made, if you don’t know who’s making it and what’s going into it.” -Ben MAY THEME — HOW TOXIC CHEMICALS FROM OUR CLOTHES MOVE AROUND THE WORLD It is a tumultuous time when it comes to policy, and policy that is specifically impacting global supply chains. Not only immediately, when we think about tariffs and the unclear, yet very real, impacts they will have on fashion businesses, but also legislation across the world that has either passed or is on the table, and requires fashion companies to be more tuned in to the actual impacts of their supply chains. These bills have without a doubt brought fear and stress to many fashion brands, because if they haven’t been mapping their supply chains previously, it’s going to prove very difficult for them to comply with some of these new requirements. What should brands know about these changing regulations? How can they navigate the shifting landscape, and what should they be doing now? As this week’s guest reminds us, there’s no one-size-fits-all answer, but there are things brands can be doing to rethink their supply chains and expand their approach to sustainability. OEKO-TEX® Website OEKO-TEX® MADE IN GREEN OEKO-TEX® Label Check Follow OEKO-TEX® on Instagram This week's episode is brought to you by OEKO-TEX®. For over 30 years, OEKO-TEX® has set global standards for chemical safety, responsible production, and supply chain transparency, ensuring that textiles and leather products are tested for harmful substances. Learn more about their MADE IN GREEN label here >

This episode is a little different than what you’re used to, as it’s a special swap with Commons and their Second Nature podcast. It’s an amazing listen and I’m stoked to share it with y’all! “I think this is inspiring people to move away from being passive consumers to instead becoming stewards of their belongings and have that sense of responsibility and it goes beyond this individual action…For us, democratizing repair isn't just a luxury or a trend, it's something essential to creating this future where sustainability and equity guide the way forward.” -Sumaq Alvarado del Aguida, Suay Sew Shop This month’s theme is – HOW TOXIC CHEMICALS FROM OUR CLOTHES MOVE AROUND THE WORLD. This episode by Second Nature gets into the layers around donated clothing, how BIG of an issue it is, and how global it truly is. From talking about the recent devastating fire in Kantamanto Market in Accra, Ghana, to the onslaught of clothing donations that overwhelmed facilities in Los Angeles after the wildfires in January this year, this episode explores some interested parallels and disturbing realities around the low quality of so much of the clothing that ends up in the donation cycle, as well as the harmful impacts that toxins within those clothes can have on the communities where they land. You’ll hear from Sumaq of Suay Sew Shop in LA on the excess of crappy clothing that was donated to them amidst the wildfires, and how they are working to get creative with those textiles. One thing I want to highlight is how Sumaq shares that we need to become “stewards of our belongings”. Passing it over to Katelan, the host of Second Nature, who will share more with you in this special episode!  Second Nature Episode Follow Second Nature on Instagram

In Episode 329, Kestrel welcomes Jennine Jacob, a personal stylist and Instagram phenom, to the show. You may know Jennine from viral videos that explore the many layers of nuance connected to the power of finding your own style. “Anytime I see people quote unquote dressing for their body type, those outfits that look good, they can all be explained through style principles. The rule of thirds, contrast, proportion, texture, color theory. So why do we have to attach a value to a person's body shape when that's not even necessary? I really want to call into question why we use certain language because there's a lot of dismissal of visual language not just in fashion but also in the arts and architecture, and in the spaces that we move that have tremendous impact in how we navigate the world.” -Jennine MARCH THEME — PERSONAL STYLE IS SO MUCH MORE THAN *VANITY* This month, we’re shifting the narrative a bit toward the conversation around style. I recently did a post on Instagram about why I post daily outfits and how it’s not about vanity, and instead – it’s about storytelling, sustainability and branding. It resonated so much with folks and made me feel optimistic amidst a time that can be pretty gloomy lately. I talked about the power of knowing the stories connected to your garments and how that storytelling can come through in the way you wear them. I talked about how when you have intimate connections with your garments, you tend to take care of them so they last longer. I talked about how identifying your personal style is a key part of building your brand, and honing in on the colors you consistently wear can play into determining or realizing your aligned visual identity.  I even mentioned the whole “fashion is frivolous” annoying narrative, and how it’s totally ridiculous considering how much your clothing choices do actually truly matter. Turns out, that’s one of the many topics we crack open with this week’s guest.  “Is The Internet Messing With Your Style?”, IG reel Kestrel mentions “The Power Dynamics Of Comfort”, IG reel Kestrel mentions “Quiet Luxury Helps The Oligarchy”, IG reel Jennine mentions “Focus in on not just how you want to look, but what you want to say with your style, and why you want to say it.” (40:06) -Jennine Jennine’s Website Follow Jennine on Instagram

In Episode 328, Kestrel welcomes Dana Zhaxylykova, an environmental scientist & microplastics researcher, to the show. Originally from Kazakhstan, Dana is currently based in Germany — through her Instagram platform, she shares practical and actionable tips about microplastics through a scientific lens. “As a scientist, I want to assure you that every little action in avoiding plastic, it can have an impact. And as scientists and as a scientific community, we expect people, not only the governments and corporations (they have a huge responsibility, of course), but we as people, we also can have an impact as individuals, we can help these problems to get solved faster.”-Dana This month, we’re focusing on diverse ways to combat fast fashion. I don’t know about you, but whenever I think of fast fashion, my brain automatically goes to issues around MICROPLASTICS. Considering that over 60% of global fiber production is synthetic materials – derived from fossil fuels – it’s hard not to make that connection, especially given some of the intimate experiences I’ve had watching scientists from 5 Gyres literally collect microplastics from the water and air around us, and hear them talk about how so many of the microplastics they collect have come from fabric and clothing.  As this week’s guest highlights, with nylon, polyester and acrylic fabrics flooding the fast fashion market, these fibers are actually releasing microplastics in every stage of the process – from production, to wearing the garments, to washing and drying them. Basically, there are microplastics being shed into our environment from every single stage of a fast fashion garment’s lifecycle. That feels overwhelming, I know, but I love how this week’s guest really puts things into perspective, not only from a scientific lens, but also from a practical hands-on point of view, offering us suggestions on the things we can actually control, when it comes to microplastics in our lives.  “Seasonal variation and removal of microplastics in a central Asian urban wastewater treatment plant”, Dana’s research paper “Effect of microplastics deposition on human lung airways: A review with computational benefits and challenges”, paper Dana mentions “Environmental exposure to microplastics: an overview on possible human health effects”, paper Dana mentions “Effects of microplastic exposure on human digestive, reproductive, and respiratory health: a rapid systemic review”, paper Dana mentions “Polystyrene microplastics exacerbate systemic inflammation in high-fat diet-induced obesity”, paper Dana mentions

In Episode 327, Kestrel welcomes Sanchali Pal, founder and CEO of Commons, an app that rewards you for living and spending sustainably. On Commons’ app, you can get rewarded for shopping sustainable brands and for taking climate actions like thrifting, taking public transportation or eating plant-based. “When people think about the actions they can take that are sustainable, the most obvious ones are things like flying less or recycling or eating more plant-based. People don't always think about their clothing habits, but I think that's really changing with the conversation around fast fashion. I mean, the fashion industry has a greater environmental impact than the airline industry. It's like two to three times as much, which is pretty crazy. And so it is really exciting to start to see that conversation happen and start to think through what part we can all play in shifting that industry together.” -Sanchali FEBRUARY THEME — DIVERSE WAYS TO COMBAT FAST FASHION This week’s episode is brought to you in collaboration with Commons. As a cohost of their Anti Fast Fashion Challenge, I’m stoked to share more about how you can get involved to boycott (in many different ways) harmful fast fashion brands this month. While it can be challenging to fathom, especially being so deep within the sustainability and fashion conversation, fast fashion is booming. From the H&Ms and Zaras, to the more recent addition of ultra fast fashion brands like Shein and Temu, our culture is addicted to fast fashion. From the cheap prices to the convenience factor to the instant gratification, the allure of fast fashion is real. But as many of you know, buying fast fashion comes with an intense environmental and human impact.  Fast fashion aligns itself with disposability and waste, boasting crazy low prices. The materials are predominantly synthetic and often lose their shape after a couple washes. The synthetic materials shed loads of microplastics into the environment. Garment workers face exploitation and non-livable wages. All the while, social media and marketing continue to drive us to think we need another new piece of clothing to stay relevant. It’s a lot. And that’s why I am so excited for this conversation – and to be cohosting this month’s Anti Fast Fashion Challenge. A way for us all to collectively come together to challenge that intense urge to buy another cheap item, and instead – not shop, mend something, get something tailored, shop secondhand, or invest in a brand that centers sustainability. “Our spending is the best data source we have on our emissions.” (14:26) -Sanchali “It Starts At Home?” — research Sanchali mentions on household spending Join The Anti Fast Fashion Challenge Commons Sustainable Spending Tool / Brand Ratings  How Commons Rates Brands  Commons Website Listen To The Second Nature Podcast Follow Commons on Instagram

In Episode 326, Kestrel welcomes Anna Bario, the cofounder of Bario Neal, to the show. Bario Neal creates stunning jewelry while being committed to respecting human rights and environmental sustainability. Anna cofounded the brand alongside Page Neal, in 2008, with an interest in bringing sustainability into the discourse surrounding creativity, fine jewelry and craft. An exceptional designer and also a specialist in responsible gold and gemstone sourcing, Anna’s work in sustainable initiatives and social impacts defines the framework for Bario Neal’s ethical jewelry roadmap. “I think [for] jewelry especially, the investment question becomes entangled with presentation … we also see that culturally come through jewelry trends. Just like in fashion, pant legs get shifted and there’s so many ways we could interpret that as a reflection of the culture. And in jewelry, after the 2008 recession, jewelry got really small. Part of that was because of what people could afford, but also it was sort of like socially, what do we want to present?”-Anna JANUARY THEME — EXPLORING THE NUANCE AROUND INVESTMENT PIECES This episode is part of a partnership with Bario Neal. One of the pieces included in this collab was a redesign of my wedding and engagement rings. If you’re wondering why I would redesign my wedding rings? They felt a little too traditional for my aesthetic, especially as I’ve matured, and also – the prong setting of the lab grown diamond just wasn’t practical – it was always getting caught doing all the things connected to mom life. In this episode, we not only get an intimate look behind the scenes of what building an ethical jewelry roadmap means to Bario Neal, we also dive deeper into this month’s theme of investment pieces.  One thing Anna brings up that is such an important and often left out layer of this discussion is how “investment” in the jewelry space can easily become entangled with the performance of economic resources and privilege. In jewelry, and other areas of fashion as well, this can mean the designs showcase a blatant reflection of the economic realities around us at any given time. For example, when the economy isn’t doing well, often, jewelry trends will reflect that in favoring smaller stones and more quote unquote modest styles. And even if folks have the economic means to choose something with a higher price point or bigger stones, they may choose not to, based on what they feel comfortable presenting to the world in that moment of time. We unpack this and more in this special jewelry-focused episode. Turning To Stone, book by geologist Marcia Bjornerud that Anna mentions Mercury Free Mining Website Ethical Methalsmiths Website Bario Neal’s Website Follow Bario Neal On Instagram This week’s episode is brought to you in partnership with Bario Neal, a jewelry industry leader in ethical sourcing and progressive manufacturing. GET 15% OFF PERSONALIZED JEWELRY WITH CODE CONSCIOUSCHATTER15 AT BARIO-NEAL.COM