The generalist, the bot and the job that doesn't exist yet

In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Sarah Whipp, CMO at Elliptic, who used to run marketing at McAfee and Symantec. They have a properly honest chat about the identity crisis marketing is having right now. AI is taking over the junior work that used to teach marketers their craft. The commercial generalist is fast becoming an endangered species. And nobody’s quite sure who’s meant to train the next generation.Lucy and Sarah ask whether you’re an investor or a harvester of talent. They talk about why marketers who can only show activity, not business outcomes, will hit a ceiling and why making friends with finance might be the smartest career move you ever make. They also get real about breaking into marketing when a thousand people apply for one internship and why “Claude made me do it” will never fly as an excuse.As Sarah puts it “You can’t prompt AI if you can’t do the job yourself.”If you’re building a team for a future you can’t quite see yet, this one’s a must-listen.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever said the word “brand” in a meeting and watched half the room mentally clock off?In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Roger Binks, MD and Chief Commercial Officer at Canny Payments, to talk about building a brand that punches way above its weight and getting the whole business on board.Roger’s first trick? Stop calling it brand. Call it a revenue system. We get into why tech companies obsess over features when buyers just want a problem solved, why your engineers are designing your brand whether they know it or not and how to tie it all back to revenue so finance stops calling it a nice-to-have.We also chat about that magic “you’re everywhere!” moment, why you need to hold your nerve and stop changing the message and how a kill list keeps you sane when everyone wants a piece of marketing.As Roger puts it: “Brand is how we turn product and sales effort into repeatable, low-risk revenue.”Grab a coffee and press play.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Lucy is joined (again!) by the brilliant Louise Beaumont, who heads up marketing, comms and design at Invela, to talk about selling something that doesn’t quite exist yet. Because marketing a network is a very different beast to marketing a product. On day one there’s nothing to show, just an empty room and your job is to persuade people to turn up anyway.Louise explains why early marketing is more like casting a movie than running a campaign, how to spot your early believers (they're the ones asking the sharpest questions) and why ruthless honesty is the only way to keep them. She also introduces the “brain worm”, that one vivid idea that, once it’s in someone’s head, changes how they see the world. Plus, they get into why your playbook won’t survive a new market and how to stop the business panicking when year-one metrics look terrible.As Louise puts it: “Make sure you’ve got great brain worms and give them time to hatch.”If you’ve ever had to sell a future rather than a product, this one’s for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Everyone wants leads yesterday. But what if the real magic is in the "boring" stuff you do today?In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy sits down with Ben Robinson, former CMO at Temenos (where he grew the Temenos Marketplace from something small into one of fintech's biggest marketplaces) and now a VC investing in B2B fintechs. Ben's big idea is that marketing works like compound interest. The work builds and builds until people start saying "wow, you're everywhere."We get into deal-based marketing and how a tiny team can look far bigger in enterprise sales. We also cover why marketing doesn't stop at the lead and how to keep impatient founders on board while the compounding kicks in. Plus Ben shares a slightly spicy take for a CMO podcast: do you even need to hire a CMO yet?As Ben puts it: "If you just do activation all the time, you don't have that goodwill to draw on. At some point you have to refill the well."If your CEO keeps chanting "leads, leads, leads," this one's your therapy session.

Ever get that little pang of rage opening LinkedIn to yet another "Hi Lucy, hope you're well!" message from someone who clearly hasn't looked at your profile? Yeah, us too. In this episode, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Melanie Mills, Chief Growth Officer at Pay Captain (and a career that went from styling footballers' wives to running enterprise sales in fintech, no big deal), to talk about why "relationship first, revenue second" isn't just a nice idea, it's the only thing that actually works anymore.We get into why cold outreach reply rates have completely tanked, why AI is making the noise problem worse (not better) when it's used lazily and why quality of input always beats quantity of output. Mel drops some brilliant, brutally honest advice on personalisation, multi-channel selling and why voice notes might just be the most underrated tool in your arsenal.As Mel puts it: "Just dig deep and be real."If you've ever deleted a cold email without reading past the first line, this one's for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Every marketing leader has inherited some flavour of martech chaos. A few platforms bought with the best intentions, a tool or two nobody quite remembers signing up for and now AI getting thrown at the whole mess like fairy dust. In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the godfather of martech himself, Scott Brinker, and yes, that's a compliment, not a warning.They get stuck into why more tools has never automatically meant a better marketing engine and why so many CMOs end up doing a lot of shopping and calling it transformation. Scott doesn't hold back on where the industry's gone wrong either, admitting he almost regrets creating the infamous martech landscape because it's become part of the distraction.The real fix? Stop leading with tools and start leading with strategy. As Scott puts it, "the marketing and the strategy comes first, and then you're applying the right technology."If your stack feels more like a tangle than an engine, this one's essential listening.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Some CMOs walk into a new role with a playbook already in hand. Frameworks that worked before, campaigns that grew the last company from five to fifty million. Handy. Except when it isn't.In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Louise Beaumont to talk about exactly that moment: when the playbook that made you look like a genius somewhere else suddenly doesn't fit, because the category's different, the audience doesn't even know they have the problem yet, and the map you're used to following just... doesn't exist.So what do you do? Burn it. Literally the title of this episode.Louise sums up the mindset perfectly: "if you get it right, if you shift enough worldviews, if you create a category that didn't exist before, it's the best feeling in the world."If you've ever walked into a role and quietly wondered whether what worked before will work again, this one's going to hit home.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

AI can spit out a flawless marketing strategy in three seconds flat. What it can't do is tell you when to trust your gut in the room. That's exactly what this episode of CMO Therapy gets into.Lucy is joined by the brilliant Roopa Ramaiya, who's gone from Canary Wharf banking to Barcelona fintech to construction tech, and never once stuck to one lane. Together they get into the messy, honest stuff: career pivots, moving into industries you know nothing about and why "must have industry expertise" on a job spec might just be code for fear.Roopa doesn't hold back either. As she puts it, "industry expertise is often a proxy for fear." Ouch, but also... true.They talk judgement, commercial instinct, reading the room and why the best CMOs aren't the ones who've mastered one industry, they're the ones who can walk into a new one and get credible, fast.If you've ever felt the fear of jumping ship, this one's your permission slip.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Ever feel like marketing success is just about doing more - more channels, more activity, more noise? In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by the brilliant Lauren Berkemeyer, CMO at YuLife, to unpack why that "boil the ocean" approach is quietly wrecking budgets, trust and focus across marketing teams everywhere.They get into:Why high-volume, low-relevance outreach is actively damaging your funnel (the stats are brutal: 73% of B2B buyers avoid suppliers sending irrelevant outreach and 81% straight-up ignore generic messaging)How to use AI for account intelligence without losing the human touch that builds real trustWhy patience, not speed, might be your most underrated sales and marketing weaponAnd why so few marketers actually know their ICP and what that's costing themAs Lauren puts it: "One in four are your real trailblazers... those are who I want to find."If you're ready to trade spray-and-pray for precision, relevance and a much healthier funnel, this one's for you.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence

Hiring marketing talent has always been hard, but right now it feels like a whole new level of chaos.In this episode of CMO Therapy, Lucy is joined by Conor Coughlan, CMO at Armis, to unpack the slightly painful reality of finding genuinely brilliant marketers in an AI-driven world. Because let’s be honest, everyone looks polished on paper now. CVs are sharper, applications are slicker and AI can make almost anyone sound like they know exactly what they’re doing.Conor shares what he’s seeing first-hand while rebuilding a SaaS marketing team, including the sheer volume of applications, the rise of AI-polished CVs, and why traditional screening methods are starting to break. He also gets into the practical stuff: how to write clearer job descriptions, why reference checks still matter, how to test for real capability and why grit, curiosity and attitude can be just as important as experience.As Conor puts it, AI tools are amazing, “but my God, they can put lipstick on a pig.”If you’re hiring, growing a team, or trying not to make an expensive mistake, this one is absolutely worth a [email protected]. Press tab to insert.Music clip by Filo Starquez, Divergence