
I come from marketing and have never been a developer. Jens Dressler has written software for more than 20 years – semiconductor test equipment, then CTO of the event app Vamos, then CTO at Fanmiles after it bought Vamos. We both spent years trying to build for and sell to developers, and we both ended up somewhere else: helping people who don't code get AI to build real things for them.
Jens tells what selling to CTOs was really like – "I want more control" – and what changed when he started talking to people without a development background: "It was not about the stack. … It was really about, I want to achieve this. Can you help me?" We talk about the hard parts non-developers never see coming (data privacy, auditability, race conditions, the happy path), why he thinks no-code was too restrictive, how Turbofy hides the lower layers so you only think about your business logic, and where a chat builder stops and Claude Code or Codex takes over.
WHO THIS IS FOR
A founder or marketer without a developer background who wants to build real software
Anyone stuck between a no-code tool and a developer quote
A technical founder who keeps getting asked "can you build my idea?"
A builder deciding between a chat builder and Claude Code
IN THIS EPISODE
00:00:00 – Two sides, one problem
00:01:06 – From chip-test software to Berlin startups
00:02:26 – Why selling to developers is so hard
00:04:31 – Great ideas, 500-euro budgets
00:06:23 – My side: the CTO who said "almost ready"
00:08:23 – A crash at lunch, and why developers overbuild
00:10:18 – Velocity of value: frame it as an experiment
00:13:55 – Straight into Claude Code – every bucket at once
00:15:11 – What non-developers miss: privacy, auditability, race conditions
00:21:53 – How Turbofy hides the lower layers
00:23:15 – Developers move up: raising the floor and the ceiling
00:26:47 – Why code, not no-code
00:27:52 – The December moment: 95% of the code with AI
00:31:20 – A Turbofy app in three prompts
00:33:05 – Where chat builders stop and Claude Code takes over
00:39:14 – What to build this week
00:41:17 – Where to find Jens
DEEP DIVE LINKS
🚀 Turbofy: https://turbofy.com
📚 Turbofy docs: https://docs.turbofy.com
💬 Jens on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jensdressler/
🗓️ All upcoming events: https://pirateskills.com/events
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7kFl0BJiOYih8yqQTRR9SN
🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/build-grow-repeat/id1870561487
💬 Connect with me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bensufiani/
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