How Notion Rebuilt HR from First Principles | Katy Shields

Erica Bourne, Chief People Officer at LSEG, believes AI transformation is a people change before it is a technology change. The London Stock Exchange Group runs the infrastructure financial markets depend on, so it has to innovate without putting that reliability at risk. Her approach keeps people at the helm: accountable for judgment and outcomes, experimenting inside clear guardrails, with each team moving at the pace its risk allows.She joined LSEG in January 2023 and sits on its Executive Committee. Before that she spent four years as Chief People Officer at Burberry and 12 years at American Express, where she rose to EVP running international HR across more than 30 countries.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Joelle and Erica get into:Why she prefers "human at the helm" to "human in the loop," and the SAFER rules LSEG gives everyone for experimenting: stay in scope, be accountable, check for fairness, explain your use, and review before you relyWhy a company that runs critical market infrastructure has to protect reliability while it experiments, and how it builds a culture of experimentation anywayStarting with tasks instead of roles, and pairing early-career AI experts with deep subject matter experts to redesign the workHow LSEG balances bottom-up experiments with a small number of top-down AI big bets that start from a business outcomeLeading by learning in public, from her own coursework to graduates reverse mentoring the CEO and the boardWhy LSEG is doubling down on early-career hiring, and the harder work of redesigning what the first years of a career look likeWhat she learned at American Express and Burberry about high performance, and why culture comes to life through leadersHow the people team's job shifts from workforce planning to org capacity across employees, external workers, and agentsChapters:00:00 Meet Erica Bourne01:03 Why AI change is a people change02:52 Transforming a 300-year-old fintech04:31 Human at the helm, not human in the loop05:28 The SAFER rules for experimenting07:14 Start with the task, not the role09:10 Leaders learning in public12:08 Balancing experiments with enterprise value16:26 Top-down AI big bets17:53 Move fast, without breaking things21:16 Pairing AI experts with content experts25:03 Bringing deep experts on the journey28:57 It's never too late to start31:43 Why LSEG is doubling down on early careers34:29 Redesigning early-career roles38:32 Four tenets of high performance41:55 Culture comes to life through leaders45:17 The people team as architect of org capacity48:55 Lightning round50:23 Closing thoughtsShow Links:Follow Erica on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erica-bourne-9763203/Follow Joelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225/Follow Joelle on X: https://x.com/joelle_emersonLearn more about LSEG: https://www.lseg.comLearn more about Surface: https://surface.aiExplore All episodes: https://surface.ai/podcastSubscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/below-the-surface/id1896941268Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033AK9SGqJCL9HLx7dE7bn

Peter Fasolo, Johnson & Johnson's longtime CHRO, believes HR is not about HR. It is about linking people practices to the value a company is trying to create. That belief shaped how he built J&J's people data science team, reorganized the HR function, and ran two CEO successions.Today Peter is a Senior Advisor at TowerBrook, where he leads the firm's human resources practice, and a Professor of the Practice at Boston University's Institute for Leadership and Work, which he previously directed. He spent 14 years leading HR at Johnson & Johnson, and before that was one of the first chief talent officers in private equity, building the talent function at KKR.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Joelle and Peter get into:How J&J's Credo guides leaders through real trade-offs, and why every paragraph is linked by the word "and"Building a people data science team that tied hiring, pay, training, and manager data to business outcomesWhat the data showed about college hires versus experienced hires, and what actually drove turnoverWhy he moved much of HR into global shared services, and how to lead a transformation that size without going it aloneWhat a well-run CEO succession looks like, from painting the future to the board's final decisionWhat private equity taught him about focusing HR on value creationHow CHROs earn a seat in strategy formation, and the story they should be telling employees about AIChapters:00:00 Meet Peter Fasolo01:24 J&J's Credo and the power of "and"04:13 When the Credo shapes a hard decision08:03 Building a people data science team11:45 Why college hires outperform after 18 months13:43 What actually drives turnover16:53 Moving HR into global shared services21:16 How to lead a major HR transformation25:01 What a well-run CEO succession looks like29:43 What private equity taught him about HR33:31 How CHROs earn a seat in strategy37:56 The AI story CHROs should be telling42:17 Lightning round45:27 Closing thoughtsShow Links:Follow Peter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-fasolo/Follow Joelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225/Follow Joelle on X: https://x.com/joelle_emersonLearn more about Johnson & Johnson: https://www.jnj.comLearn more about Surface: https://surface.aiExplore All episodes: https://surface.ai/podcastSubscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/below-the-surface/id1896941268Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033AK9SGqJCL9HLx7dE7bn

Patrick Martin, Chief Talent Officer at Moody’s, believes AI transformation is a people challenge, not just a technology one. That is why Moody’s put its AI enablement team on the people team. It is also how a company built on caution has moved quickly on AI: sorting every task into work people own and work AI owns, rebuilding how it hires, and training everyone from new hires to the executive team.At Moody’s he owns hiring, learning and development, talent strategy, and employee experience. He has spent his career on how people actually build skills, as Chief Learning Officer at Bechtel and then leading talent for XPO Logistics and its workforce of more than 100,000, before joining Moody’s in 2021.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Joelle and Patrick get into:Why Moody’s AI enablement function reports into the people team, and what changes when you treat AI as a change initiative rather than a technology rolloutThe four-square exercise his teams used to sort every task by complexity and value into people-owned and AI-owned work, and why almost nobody believed AI would take anything on the first passHow a company built on being deliberate got permission to move boldly, from the CEO pulling everyone together to the AI cafes where employees demo what they have builtWhy pure bottom-up experimentation ends with five people building the same agent, and the governance he added without shutting the experimenting downWhat rebuilding the hiring process actually took: a listening tour, a renamed function, and a human still making every candidate decisionWhat candidates applying through AI agents are doing to his funnel, and the job categories he thinks come out of itWhy he refuses to cut early-career hiring, and where he thinks the next generation of leaders comes fromChapters:00:00 Meet Patrick Martin01:03 What a chief talent officer owns03:35 Why AI enablement sits on the people team06:06 Sorting every task: people or AI09:59 Getting people to want automation12:04 A caution-first company moving boldly15:33 Inside Moody's AI cafes16:33 Top-down and bottom-up together20:09 Tokens are not free21:11 Rebuilding the hiring process26:16 Candidates are applying with agents27:59 Bias in AI, bias in humans29:51 Moving fast and getting things wrong31:50 From "what is AI" to Claude Code34:18 Manage Forward: rebuilding managers36:56 Why early career talent still matters39:11 The pitch to a skeptical CEO42:06 Lightning round44:11 Closing thoughtsShow Links:Follow Patrick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-martin-22b734/Follow Joelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225/Follow Joelle on X: https://x.com/joelle_emersonLearn more about Moody’s: https://www.moodys.comLearn more about Surface: https://surface.aiExplore All episodes: https://surface.ai/podcastSubscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/below-the-surface/id1896941268Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033AK9SGqJCL9HLx7dE7bn

Hannah Pritchett, Chief People Officer at Anthropic, believes the ability to learn starts with ambition. Her test for whether a company is truly set up to learn is simple: are people encouraged to think expansively, take meaningful risks, and pursue ideas that could materially change what’s possible?A linguist by training, Hannah worked in trust and safety at Facebook, spent seven years at Stripe across risk, payments operations, and talent, and led people at Binti, where she also stepped in as interim head of engineering, before joining Anthropic, the AI lab behind Claude.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Joelle and Hannah get into:Why "AI adoption" is the wrong metaphor, and what changes when you onboard AI the way you onboard a new team memberWhy every individual contributor now runs a team, and every frontline manager just became an executiveSelection, expectations, interactions: her framework for how a culture actually gets made, and why copying Anthropic's playbook wouldn't workHow Anthropic rewards the big swing, from retros on every project to the strength-training rule she brought to workFlat titles, no offer negotiation, and the case for paying a superstar team the sameWhy efficiency gains should raise a company's ambitions instead of shrinking its headcount, and why people belong in the R&D line rather than the cost lineFit, function, flourish: what a people team is for, and how to earn a bigger mandate without waiting for permissionChapters:00:00 Meet Hannah Pritchett01:10 AI is a new team member, not a tool04:28 Everyone at your company now runs a team06:42 Let the practitioners lead the change08:48 Selection, expectations, interactions12:39 Rewarding the big swing14:23 Are you dreaming big enough?15:12 Flat titles and intrinsic motivation18:43 Hiring for mission, even at a bank20:25 From linguistics to the people seat22:23 Fit, function, flourish24:48 A survey only counts if you act on it27:16 Onboarding people, and onboarding Claude29:00 How Anthropic's people team uses Claude33:34 Don't wait for permission36:29 Fewer people, or bigger ambitions?40:23 Moving people across roles44:35 What the AI and jobs debate gets wrong47:03 The case for optimism49:02 Lightning round50:24 Closing thoughtsShow Links:Follow Hannah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-pritchett-261b0a74/Follow Joelle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225/Follow Joelle on X: https://x.com/joelle_emersonLearn more about Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.comLearn more about Surface: https://surface.aiExplore All episodes: https://surface.ai/podcastSubscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/below-the-surface/id1896941268Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033AK9SGqJCL9HLx7dE7bn

Ask a CEO to name their hardest problem and they will rarely call it a people problem. Beth Karlsson will take that bet every time. From her seat at Lightspeed she watches dozens of the fastest-scaling companies in the world figure out talent in real time, and the ones getting it right have stopped hiring for pedigree and started hiring for how fast someone can learn.Beth Karlsson is Partner and Chief HR Officer at Lightspeed Venture Partners, the global multi-stage venture firm that was an early backer of Anduril, Anthropic, Glean, Snap and Wiz. She started at Apple on the retail floor in the earliest days of its stores, moved into Apple's people organization, and was head of people at Pinterest through its IPO.They get into:1. What a CHRO actually does inside a venture capital firm2. Why she interviews for turning points instead of experience3. The Apple research that found compassion set its best leaders apart, and how it got built into interviews and reviews4. How "pace and purpose" carried Pinterest through its IPO and the year that followed5. Why the runway a company gets to scale has compressed, and the talent that survives it6. The one capability she screens every HR candidate for that almost nobody hasBelow the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Chapters:00:00 Meet Beth Karlsson01:13 A CHRO inside a venture capital firm03:06 Hiring for potential, not pedigree05:11 The trait Apple's best leaders shared09:27 If you want perks, look elsewhere10:54 The perks arms race at Pinterest12:43 Pace and purpose through the IPO14:57 What the best portfolio companies get right17:15 You can't make everybody happy21:49 There is no AI magic wand26:09 When your team fears being replaced30:37 Everything is about people33:46 People are the only moat36:35 Telling a more optimistic AI story40:45 Lightning round43:31 Closing thoughtsWhere to find Beth Karlsson:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethkarlsson/Where to find Joelle Emerson:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225/X: https://x.com/joelle_emersonLearn more about Lightspeed: https://lsvp.comLearn more about Surface: https://surface.aiWhere to find Below the Surface:All episodes: https://surface.ai/podcastApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/below-the-surface/id1896941268Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033AK9SGqJCL9HLx7dE7bn

Companies have spent the last few years measuring the value of AI by the headcount it lets them cut. Sarah Franklin calls that a strategic error — one the market is already correcting. Her bet: the companies that win the next five years will be the ones that build for the success of people first.Sarah Franklin is CEO of Lattice, the people platform, and the first non-founder to lead the company. Before Lattice, she spent 15 years at Salesforce, where she built Trailhead into the company's learning platform and rose to president and chief marketing officer.Joelle and Sarah get into why Lattice promoted its own chief people officer to run the company's AI transformation, what changes in a calibration meeting when the evidence comes out of the systems where work actually happens, why even OpenAI buys this software instead of building it, the AI coach that sits in on one-on-ones and tells managers when they talked over someone, and why every company that kills the performance review ends up bringing it back.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.

Superhuman's return-to-office mandate wasn't working. The required days came, and the desks stayed empty. So Kenny Mendes scrapped the mandate and changed what the company rewards instead.Kenny is Chief People Officer at Superhuman, the AI productivity company formed by the merger of Grammarly and Coda. Before that, he was the first recruiting hire at Box, where he built the recruiting team that helped take the company to IPO.Joelle and Kenny get into the opt-in office plans that replaced the mandate, the program that let employees voluntarily trade salary for equity, why managers no longer set compensation at Superhuman, and what changed when the people team stopped waiting on the sidelines and started talking to employees directly.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.

When Katy Shields joined Notion as Chief People Officer, she didn't ask her team to improve what was already there. She asked them to throw it out.Katy joined just over a year ago, when Notion was around 800 people. Before that, she helped scale DoorDash to nearly 20,000 employees, built culture at VSCO, and worked at Google X and Waymo. Her first month was spent mapping guiding principles from a blank page rather than iterating on the playbook she inherited, with Notion's own product as the test bed.Joelle and Katy get into what got retired and what replaced it: the 41-question annual engagement survey, the pilot she rolled out to a fifth of the company too early and then owned publicly, why she calls headcount a vanity metric, how Notion rewrote its company values, and why she thinks AI will make work more human rather than less.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.

Hiring is in a doom loop. Candidates are using AI to apply to more jobs than ever, companies are using AI to screen them out faster than ever, and both sides are getting worse outcomes for the effort.Daniel Chait is co-founder and CEO of Greenhouse, the hiring platform behind more than 7,500 companies. He's been arguing for structured hiring for over a decade, and he thinks it matters more now than ever, because AI applied on top of a chaotic process just scales the chaos.Joelle and Daniel get into why neither employers nor job seekers are winning right now, what the best companies do differently before AI enters the picture at all, how AI interviews can either destroy or expand fair access to a first conversation, and what happened when Paradigm's own hiring process ran into candidates who weren't who they said they were.Below the Surface is a show about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

Most companies aren't failing at AI. They're failing at change. That's the argument from Jevan Soo Lenox, Chief People Officer at WRITER, who says the technology is rarely the problem. The culture around it is.Jevan is a five-time chief people officer who has scaled teams at Square, Stitch Fix, Blue Bottle Coffee, and AI drug discovery company insitro, and he's been working at the intersection of technology and people for over two decades.In this episode, Jevan and Joelle Emerson dig into why AI amplifies whatever your organization already is, for better or worse. Jevan shares findings from WRITER's recent adoption survey, including the surprising number of employees actively sabotaging AI initiatives at their companies, and explains why bottoms-up experimentation alone almost never produces business results. They also get into why he predicted years ago that the chief people officer would need to become the chief change officer, what he learned about humans and algorithms working together at Stitch Fix a decade before it was fashionable, the return of the generalist, and the difference between an efficiency culture and a resilience culture.Below the Surface is a podcast from Paradigm about how the best companies build their teams, hosted by Joelle Emerson, co-founder and CEO of Paradigm.