Good Enough to Get Going: Lessons from Ellen Yoakum [Episode 265]

In this thoughtful first half of a two-part conversation, we’re joined by the insightful and articulate Ellen Yoakum—Certified Separation Anxiety Pro Behavior Consultant, KPA CTP, and Behavior Consultant with Pet Harmony. Ellen’s path in animal behavior began at the University of Washington, where she immersed herself in captive animal welfare and enrichment research under mentors including Dr. Eduardo Fernandez, Dr. James Ha, and Dr. Renee Ha. From conducting enrichment studies with gray wolves, penguins, and brown bears to working with Natural Encounters Inc. on free-flight avian programs, Ellen’s career has spanned species, disciplines, and continents—all united by her deep curiosity about the teacher–learner relationship. Today, through her work with Pet Harmony, Ellen helps families and professionals navigate the complex needs of both human and non-human learners with compassion, creativity, and clarity. In this conversation, she and Ryan explore: ✅ The formative influence of Ellen’s early research and mentors on her consulting approach ✅ How her experiences across species—from wolves to macaws—shaped her perspective on enrichment and welfare ✅ Why she finds comfort in being “the least knowledgeable person in the room” ✅ How interoception, emotional awareness, and naming our experiences support better communication and empathy ✅ The power of language, inclusive communication, and “assuming good intent” in our professional and personal relationships Ellen’s reflections invite us to embrace imperfection, lead with curiosity, and build training cultures grounded in good faith and shared growth. Stay tuned for part two, where we’ll dive deeper into her work with Pet Harmony, mentorship, and sustainable strategies for supporting both people and their pets. Links Enrichment for the Real World Petharmonytraining.com Pet Harmony on Instagram and Facebook Pet Harmony Pro on Instagram and TikTok Bear Studies: The Effects of Automated Scatter Feeders on Captive Grizzly Bear Activity Budgets  Seasonal and Daily Activity of Two Zoo-Housed Grizzly Bears (Ursus Arctos Horribilis)   Caregiver Burden Resources

In this second half of our two-part conversation, we’re joined again by the insightful Megan Sanders—zoo behavior consultant, educator, and long-time advocate for evidence-based training. Building on Part One, where we explored Megan’s career journey and the value of leaning into discomfort, this episode dives into her master’s thesis research on how best to teach the teachers—animal trainers themselves. Megan shares how tools like Behavior Skills Training (BST) and PORTL can systematically shape trainer mechanics, improve procedural fidelity, and ultimately lead to less stressed, more successful animals. Together, we explore: ✅ Why training trainers deserves the same precision and care as training animals ✅ How PORTL, peer feedback, and goats became unlikely research allies ✅ The challenges of measuring trainer skill and bridging it to real-world animal outcomes ✅ Why “the why” matters—giving trainers logical, observable reasons behind every step ✅ How research leaves us with more questions (and why that’s a good thing) Megan’s story reminds us that the heart of effective animal care often starts with how we teach the humans holding the leash, bucket, or target stick. By bringing clarity, systematic teaching, and curiosity to the process, Megan is helping shape a future where trainers feel more confident, animals thrive, and the science of behavior continues to grow. Links https://www.behaviorworks.org/ https://absc.ku.edu/ https://behaviorexplorer.com/  

In this inspiring first half of a two-part conversation, we’re joined by the accomplished and thoughtful Megan Sanders—zoo behavior consultant, educator, and long-time advocate for evidence-based training. With over 23 years in the zoo field, much of it at Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, Megan’s journey has spanned caring for everything from goats and guinea pigs to snow leopards and mountain lions. Along the way, she became CMZ’s first Animal Behavior Programs Manager, helped launch zoo-wide training and enrichment initiatives, and co-developed courses that have shaped the next generation of zookeepers. Beyond the zoo, Megan has also taught in higher education, supported service dog programs, and now collaborates with Behavior Works LLC as a consultant and instructor. Together, we explore: ✅ How Megan’s early squirrel and wombat encounters set her on a path toward behavior science ✅ Her evolution from keeper to building zoo-wide training systems ✅ The pivotal influence of mentors like Susan Friedman and Steve Martin ✅ Why “playing with better tennis players” is vital for professional growth ✅ The challenges of embracing discomfort as a pathway to improvement Megan’s story is a reminder that growth often comes from leaning into the uncomfortable, surrounding ourselves with people who challenge us, and staying curious about both animals and ourselves. Stay tuned for part two, where we’ll dive into her master’s thesis research on teaching strategies for animal trainers and transferring skills into practice. Links https://www.behaviorworks.org/ https://absc.ku.edu/ https://behaviorexplorer.com/  

In the second half of this enlightening conversation, we’re once again joined by Dr. Mari Valgma—Certified Professional Canine Fitness Trainer, creator of Movement Puzzles, and founder of The Moving Canine. After hearing Mari’s remarkable journey in part one, we now dive deep into the work that has touched thousands of dogs and their humans worldwide. Mari unpacks the origins and applications of Movement Puzzles, sharing how a simple idea has blossomed into a global community dedicated to canine fitness, confidence, and joy. Together, we explore: ✅ The philosophy and structure behind Movement Puzzles ✅ How fitness training builds resilience and problem-solving skills in dogs ✅ Real-world examples of dogs gaining confidence and coordination through movement ✅ The evolution of Mari’s international community and its unexpected growth ✅ How trainers and guardians alike can use movement to enrich everyday life Mari’s approach shows us that when we reframe fitness as play, exploration, and empowerment, we unlock not only healthier bodies but also stronger, more confident minds. This conversation will leave you inspired to think about movement as both a foundation and a gift for the dogs in your care. Links Website: www.themovingcanine.com Free two-ball game training series: available via the website Facebook: Mari Valgma – The Moving Canine Instagram: @the.moving.canine

In this inspiring first half of a two-part conversation, we’re joined by the innovative and passionate Dr. Mari Valgma - Certified Professional Canine Fitness Trainer, creator of Movement Puzzles, and trailblazer bringing evidence-based training from Estonia to the world. Mari’s story is anything but ordinary. From pursuing a PhD in maritime engineering in the UK to pioneering canine fitness training back home in Estonia, her journey reflects a powerful blend of problem-solving, resilience, and creativity. What started as a search to support her own dog’s joint health has grown into a global movement helping thousands of dogs gain confidence, coordination, and joy through movement-based training. Together, we explore: ✅ How Mari’s engineering background shaped her approach to canine fitness ✅ The pivotal role her dogs played in her shift from academia to training ✅ Why fitness is foundational to both physical wellness and behavioral confidence ✅ The challenges and triumphs of building a dog training career in a small country ✅ The evolution of Movement Puzzles from sport dog fitness to a confidence-building tool for all dogs Mari’s journey is a vivid reminder that when we follow curiosity, honor the dogs in front of us, and embrace creative problem-solving, entirely new possibilities emerge - for dogs, their people, and the wider training community. Stay tuned for part two, where we’ll dive deep into the nuts and bolts of Movement Puzzles and their transformative impact. Links Website: www.themovingcanine.com Free two-ball game training series: available via the website Facebook: Mari Valgma – The Moving Canine Instagram: @the.moving.canine

In this second installment of our two-part conversation, Adam Skandarani returns to explore one of the most nuanced and vital topics in our industry: the intersection of art, science, and culture in animal training. Blending professional insight, lived experience, and thoughtful introspection, Adam and Ryan unpack the complexities that arise when training mechanics meet real-world messiness—where logical reasoning, cultural norms, and individual values can shape how training is practiced, received, and understood. Together, we explore: ✅ The difference between applying science and embodying artistry in training ✅ How “cultural fogs” impact both client beliefs and trainer behaviors ✅ Why critical thinking and curiosity are essential tools of the trade ✅ Practical examples of shaping, splitting, and preparing for real-world success ✅ How to hold multiple truths at once—and communicate them with care ✅ The role of social media in shaping modern training discourse ✅ Adam’s vision for a future guided by understanding, welfare, and curiosity From skill-building to introspection, from koalas to kickback stands, this episode is a deep dive into what it means to be more than “just” a dog trainer. It’s about becoming an effective, empathetic, and artful practitioner—for all species, including our own. Links www.flashofbrilliancedogs.com instagram.com/flashofbrilliancedogs https://www.facebook.com/FlashofBrillianceDog [email protected]

In this powerful and heartfelt first part of a two-part conversation, we’re joined by the insightful and compassionate Adam Skandarani—Certified Control Unleashed Instructor, Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner, and tireless advocate for both dogs with Really Big Feelings and the humans who support them. Adam takes us on their “behavior odyssey,” tracing a journey shaped by learning, unlearning, and growing alongside their two Boxers—Sansa and the unforgettable Flash Gordon. Through stories that are raw, moving, and instructive, Adam shares how Flash, with all his intensity, reactivity, and need for connection, became not just a training challenge but their greatest teacher. Together, we explore: ✅ How unmet social and medical needs can drive misunderstood behavior ✅ Why talking about behavior without discussing its context is a fruitless endeavor ✅ The power of control, decompression, and choice in building behavioral wellness ✅ Lessons from the late great Flash Gordon, ATA’s honorary “Chief Remedial Socialization Officer” ✅ Practical ways to support clients navigating resistance around pain assessment ✅ The importance of trainer self-care and embracing therapeutic support This episode is a beautiful reminder that beneath every behavior lies a story—and that when we meet our learners where they are, profound transformation is possible. Dedicated to the memory of Flash, whose legacy continues to teach us all. Links www.flashofbrilliancedogs.com instagram.com/flashofbrilliancedogs https://www.facebook.com/FlashofBrillianceDog [email protected]

In the second part of our conversation with Juliana DeWillems - Certified Dog Behavior Consultant, faculty member at the Karen Pryor Academy, and author of Manage It! - we dive headfirst into a topic often overlooked in our industry: management. Juliana unpacks why management is more than just a stopgap solution and how it can serve as a powerful, proactive, and compassionate tool for behavior change. Drawing from the content of her book and years of hands-on experience, Juliana walks us through how antecedent arrangement, environmental adjustments, and unmet needs shape the behaviors we see - and how thoughtful management can help create real change for animals and their guardians. Throughout this episode, we explore: ✅ What “management” really means - and how to define it across different audiences ✅ The relationship between antecedents, behavior, and long-term success ✅ Why management is not “just a band-aid,” but often the most ethical, effective choice ✅ Practical talking points for trainers when advocating for management strategies with clients ✅ How embracing simplicity and going “back to basics” can clear the fog and enhance outcomes Whether you're brand new to training or a seasoned professional, Juliana’s thoughtful insights offer a refreshing look at how sometimes the simplest strategies are the most impactful. This episode reminds us that behavior is always happening - and it’s our job to make the environment work for everyone involved. Links https://www.instagram.com/jwdogtraining/ https://www.facebook.com/jwdogtrainingandbehavior/ https://www.tiktok.com/@jwdogtraining   https://www.jwdogtraining.com/ https://www.jwdogtraining.com/training-app

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy podcast, we are honoured to welcome back Chirag Patel - an internationally acclaimed behaviour and training consultant whose innovative work spans species, continents, and disciplines. Chirag is perhaps best known for creating the Bucket Game and for his deep commitment to ethical, science-based, cooperative care. During this rich and thoughtful conversation, Chirag and host Ryan Cartlidge explore the origin story of the Bucket Game, the pivotal influence of Susan Friedman and other mentors, and the process of bringing empowerment and agency to animals through training. Chirag offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at the reflective practices that fuel his creativity and the radical behavioural lens through which he navigates the world. Listeners are treated to discussions on maintaining innovation across a long career, embracing the individuality of each learner (human and non-human alike), the role of functional assessments in behavioural design, and the deeply personal journey of adopting behaviour analysis as a worldview. What You’ll Discover in This Episode: 🪣 How a Target store and a German Shepherd helped spark the Bucket Game. 🪣 The lasting impact of Susan Friedman’s work on Chirag’s thinking and teaching. 🪣 Strategies for staying innovative without losing touch with foundational science. 🪣 The behavioural analytic process behind self-reflection and online feedback. 🪣 Chirag’s take on spirituality, radical acceptance, and applying ABA to everyday life. Why This Episode is a Must-Listen: Whether you’ve long admired Chirag Patel’s work or are encountering his ideas for the first time, this episode offers an unfiltered glimpse into the mindset of a behaviour professional who walks his talk. From deep philosophical insights to practical training gems, this is an episode you’ll want to revisit time and again. Engage With Us: Subscribe to the podcast, share this episode with fellow behaviour nerds, and join our global community at www.atamember.com as we continue to elevate our craft with compassion, curiosity, and science. Links: https://www.instagram.com/chiragpatelconsulting/ https://www.chiragpatelconsulting.com/welcome https://www.facebook.com/chiragpatelconsulting/ 

In this first installment of a two-part conversation, we welcome Juliana DeWillems - Certified Dog Behavior Consultant, Karen Pryor Academy faculty member, and founder of JW Dog Training - for a deeply honest and empowering discussion. Juliana shares her unique journey into the world of animal training - from event planning at a humane society to discovering her calling through fostering rambunctious adolescent dogs. Unlike many, Juliana entered the field without first navigating aversive methods, drawn instinctively to positive reinforcement by both curiosity and compassion. We also explore: ✅ What burnout looked and felt like for Juliana as a business owner and trainer ✅ How she reshaped her career (and life) to align with her strengths and values ✅ The emotional realities of working in a helping profession ✅ Why therapy, self-awareness, and redefining success are critical tools for sustainability ✅ The possibilities—and pitfalls—of building a digitally-based animal training business Juliana’s insights will resonate with anyone who’s ever questioned their capacity to “do it all,” and her vulnerability provides a roadmap for building a career with more intention, peace, and joy. Whether you’re a seasoned pro or new to the field, this episode offers inspiration, validation, and hope for a thriving future. Links https://www.instagram.com/jwdogtraining/ https://www.facebook.com/jwdogtrainingandbehavior/ https://www.tiktok.com/@jwdogtraining   https://www.jwdogtraining.com/ https://www.jwdogtraining.com/training-app