In Good Company

Writer, host and educator Ashley C. Ford has written or guest-edited for publications including The Guardian, ELLE Magazine, BuzzFeed, New York Magazine, Marie Claire, The New York Times, taught creative nonfiction writing at The New School and Catapult.Co, hosted podcasts for HBO, Audible and Mastercard, and had her work listed among Longform & Longread's Best of 2017. Her memoir Somebody’s Daughter was published in early June and became an instant New York Times bestseller. A powerful account of a childhood defined by race, poverty, a father in prison, and Ashley’s search for a sense of self in the years that follow, Somebody’s Daughter is gut-wrenchingly honest, especially when it comes to money, or the lack thereof – and in fact Ashley is someone who has over the years written and spoken very honestly about her earnings and relationship with money. We talked about Ashley’s class transition and how having money does or doesn’t affect people’s worldviews, as well as some of the most pervasive money myths: that talking about it is ‘rude’; that those who have a lot of money have necessarily worked hard for it; that being ‘busy’ is somehow an indicator of virtue. Plus – navigating money within heterosexual relationships, and what it’s like when traditional gender roles are flipped and women become the breadwinners, and Ashley’s own experiences of that. Follow Ashley on Twitter and Instagram (@ismashfizzle) Read Somebody’s Daughter https://www.waterstones.com/book/somebodys-daughter/ashley-c-ford/9781786581297   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

On today’s episode I’m talking to the journalist and podcaster Anna Sale, who’s the creator of Death, Sex & Money – WNYC’s hugely popular podcast about the big questions and hard choices that are often left out of polite conversation. In June, Anna published a book, Let’s Talk About Hard Things, in which she considers her own history of facing (and sometimes avoiding) difficult subjects; subjects such as race and wealth, inequality, grief, love, death, power – basically all the things that shape our daily lives, but which we often struggle to have conversations about. Unsurprisingly, Anna has a lot to say about money – specifically why it’s so hard to talk about it openly and why it makes us feel so exposed. We also talked a lot about when money becomes a source of conflict in relationships, and how to work around that – in her book Anna talks about how different attitudes towards money (in part) contributed to the breakdown of her first marriage, and what she’s learned about navigating those differences in relationships moving forward; as well as how to deal with those disparities when they crop up in the context of your friendships. And of course, there’s plenty of practical advice in this episode on how to have these tricky conversations (about money and other things) with the people in your life. Find Anna on Twitter (@annasale) and Instagram (@annasalepics) Read Let’s Talk About Hard Things https://www.waterstones.com/book/lets-talk-about-hard-things/anna-sale/9781911617617 Listen to Death, Sex & Money https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/deathsexmoney/episodes   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Youtuber and content creator Lucy Moon has been creating content online – and being paid for it – since long before many of us had even heard of the word ‘influencer’, and so this episode is a real insider’s account of an industry and lifestyle that commands a great deal of cultural fascination, and is also largely dominated by women. We covered alot on this episode – what it’s like participating in ‘the economy of the self’, and the pressure that comes with having your professional and financial success contingent on being ‘liked’; the gender bias in the scrutiny that many influencers experience and how Lucy deals with other people’s negative perceptions of her job, as well as why some of those criticisms tend to arise, and the ethical considerations that underpin Lucy’s partnership choices. And of course we talked about privilege – in this case class and race privilege – and the role that that plays within the influencer economy. How it determines who is and isn’t able to monetise their lives, and how much they get paid to do so. Find Lucy on Twitter (@iamnotlucymoon) and Instagram (@iamlucymoon)   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

In 2019, the writer Clare Seal started an Instagram account @myfrugalyear in order to anonymously document her journey out of £27,000 worth of debt. Her story immediately struck a chord, and @myfrugalyear now has 78,000 followers who’ve followed Clare’s journey – that of a working mother of two on an average salary trying her best to take control of her financial situation. Last year Clare published Real Life Money: An Honest Guide To Taking Control Of Your Finances, which is very much a realistic approach to personal finance that addresses many of the deeper causes of debt and financial difficulties, and offers advice that readers can adapt to their own pace and circumstances. On this episode we talked about the emotional underpinnings of debt, and the role that social media and Instagram comparison culture played in Clare’s own situation, as well as how she tries to mitigate those influences now. We also discussed the stigma of not having money, the guilt and shame that often ensues, and how to alleviate those feelings if that’s something you’re suffering from. And of course – Clare shared some excellent practical advice for anyone taking the first steps in trying to tackle their debt. Find Clare on Twitter (@claremseal) and Instagram (@myfrugalyear) Buy Real Life Money: An Honest Guide To Taking Control Of Your Finances https://www.waterstones.com/book/real-life-money/clare-seal/9781472272294   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Yomi Adegoke is a multi award-winning journalist and author who writes about race, feminism, class, politics and how those things intersect. Besides having columns in both Vogue and the Guardian, Yomi is also the co-author of Slay In Your Lane: The Black Girl Bible, an inspirational guide to life for Black British women, as well as series of follow-up titles including Slay In Your Lane: The Journal, and most recently Loud Black Girls, an anthology of Black British writing featuring essays from the voices of twenty emerging and established Black British writers. We chatted about the emotional significance of Yomi buying her own home earlier this year, as well as the many responsibilities that come with being a homeowner; her changing class identity and how her upbringing shaped her relationship with money; the ‘shame’ of being middle-class and the cultural reluctance to admit to class privilege, as well as the differences in the Black British experience when you’re middle-class as opposed to working class. Yomi also shared some brilliant insights into the practicalities – and challenges – of buying a home as a self-employed person, and we finished off with a broader discussion about career anxiety, and how that’s prompted Yomi to think about her long term career plans. Find Yomi on Twitter (@yomiadegoke) and Instagram (@yomi.adegoke) Read her Vogue article about homeownership, gentrification, class and race https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/yomi-adegoke-gentrification-and-class   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Journalist Vicky Spratt is the i Paper’s housing correspondent as well as an editor at Refinery29 UK, and has been reporting on the UK’s housing crisis for a number of years. In 2016 she created a successful campaign, Make Renting Fair, designed to highlight the plight of ‘Generation Rent’, and which resulted in the government announcing a ban on letting agency fees for tenants. Her forthcoming book Tenants will be published next year, and is set to be the most comprehensive look at the human impact of the housing crisis yet. On this episode, Vicky carefully explains why the UK’s housing market is so messed up before going on to demystify the pros and cons of some of the schemes frequently advertised as the best way for first time buyers to get onto the property ladder, including shared ownership and Help To Buy – the latter of which was Vicky’s own route into homeownership. We also discussed the more emotional side of how housing insecurity affects people, and the consequences of the UK’s cultural obsession with homeownership, as well as class and social mobility, in particular Vicky’s experiences of disguising her own class background to fit in while she was studying at Oxford.   Find Vicky on Twitter (@Victoria_Spratt) and Instagram (@vicky.spratt) Read Vicky’s article on Help To Buy for Tortoise https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2019/08/20/help-to-buy-190820/ Pre-order Vicky’s forthcoming book Tenants: The People on the Frontline of Britain's Housing Crisis (2022) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tenants-People-Frontline-Britains-Housing/dp/1788161270   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Mona Chalabi is a data journalist, producer and presenter whose work has appeared in publications ranging from the New Yorker to the Guardian, and who’s also written for radio and TV networks including NPR, Gimlet, Netflix, and the BBC, as well as being one half of the team that created an Emmy-nominated video series called Vagina Dispatches. Plus she’s an illustrator, with much of her artwork focusing on bringing data to life by visualizing important information around various political and social issues, from poverty and wealth to women’s health issues and racial inequities. On this episode we discussed the concept of ‘money dysmorphia’ – that is a dissonance between your feelings about your financial circumstances and the reality – as well as how your upbringing and childhood experiences affect your relationship to money, particularly if you’re from an immigrant background. We also talked about toxic workplaces and racism at work, and deciding whether or not to speak up publicly about that, as well as how freelancing has changed Mona’s relationship to money. Find Mona on Twitter and Instagram (@monachalabi) Read Mona’s Guardian article about money dysmorphia: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/mar/21/money-dysmorphia-cant-let-myself-have-nice-things   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate and available to buy now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin   This episode is sponsored by Plum – download the app for free here: https://link.withplum.com/UGzt/InGoodCompany

Journalist, essayist, and media entrepreneur is co-host of the long-running and phenomenally popular podcast Call Your Girlfriend, and has written for publications including The New York Times, New York Magazine, the LA Times, The Gentlewoman, and The Guardian. She also has a newsletter called The Ann Friedman Weekly, which is a curation of great writing and interesting gems from far-flung corners of the Internet. Most recently Ann and her podcast co-host Aminatou Sow co-wrote Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close, which was an instant New York Times bestseller on publication last year, and is now out in paperback. Ann is full of wisdom on the nuts and bolts of working in media and being self-employed – especially when it comes to money – and has brilliant advice to offer on everything from negotiating your rates to protecting your intellectual property. We spoke about the business of podcasting and the economics of being a writer and publishing a book, and finished with a broader discussion about contemporary feminism, girlboss culture, and the rise and fall of the popular women’s co-working space The Wing. Find Ann on Twitter and Instagram (@annfriedman) Buy Big Friendship: https://www.waterstones.com/book/big-friendship/aminatou-sow/ann-friedman/9780349013022 Listen to Call Your Girlfriend: https://www.callyourgirlfriend.com/ Subscribe to Ann’s newsletter: https://www.annfriedman.com/weekly   We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate on 8th July and available to pre-order now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba, hosted by Sharmadean Reid on 7 July: https://www.fane.co.uk/otegha-uwagba Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Delighted to share an extract from my forthcoming memoir We Need To Talk About Money, all about my childhood and teenage years, going to a private school, and the early money lessons I learned during that period of my life. We Need To Talk About Money is published by 4th Estate on 8th July and available to pre-order now in hardback, eBook and audio, with signed copies available from Waterstones.com. Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-about-money/otegha-uwagba/9780008489304 Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Need-Talk-About-Money/dp/0008350388 Hive: https://www.hive.co.uk/Product/Otegha-Uwagba/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money/24127150 Bookshop.org: https://uk.bookshop.org/books/we-need-to-talk-about-money/9780008489304 Audible (including an exclusive 1hr Q&A with my editor Michelle Kane): https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/We-Need-to-Talk-About-Money-Audiobook/0008350418 Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba, hosted by Sharmadean Reid on 7 July: https://www.fane.co.uk/otegha-uwagba Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin

Paris Lees is a prominent journalist and British Vogue columnist whose incredible memoir and debut book What It Feels Like For A Girl is published this week. Born and raised in Hucknall, near Nottingham, Paris has written for publications including the Guardian, the Independent, the Telegraph and VICE, and presented programmes for BBC Radio 1 and Channel 4, as well as having been a vocal campaigner for the transgender community. What It Feels Like For A Girl is a boldly-written account of an extraordinary life story, and in our conversation we touch on everything from how Paris feels about being labelled as an ‘activist’, to her tumultuous teenage years, and her time as a sex worker; as well as topics such as class and code switching, and how acquiring privilege and money can make your life easier if you’re from a marginalised background. Plus – we discussed how vulnerable trans children and teenagers often are, and what it feels like to have your identity so heavily debated and politicised.   Find Paris on Twitter and Instagram (@parislees) Buy What It Feels Like For A Girl https://www.waterstones.com/book/what-it-feels-like-for-a-girl/paris-lees/2928377038854   Pre-order my forthcoming book We Need To Talk About Money (4th Estate) via Amazon or Waterstones Get tickets for my FANE digital event A Night In With Otegha Uwagba on 7 July Produced by Chris Sharp and Naomi Mantin