Tim and Kathy Keller Share the Secret of a Great Marriage (Re-Release)

Like many others, generative AI has become a nearly daily part of my life in the last couple years. I’ve found help for home repairs. Diet and exercise plans. Meal preparation. Trip planning. Personal health assessments. Footnote formatting. Even baseball swing and pitching advice for my son. Combine the best of Google and YouTube, tailored to my specific needs and situations from changing windshield wipers to fixing sump pumps, and that’s how I’ve used AI so far. I know I’m not even scratching the surface of what agentic AI can and will eventually do. I’ve seen friends spin up websites it would have taken years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to build just five years ago.  But do you know the most common use? It’s not one I’ve employed myself. And it’s not one I’d recommend. But according to Harvard Business Review, it’s remained perched on the top from 2025 to 2026 even as other common uses have wildly fluctuated up and down the charts. It’s therapy and companionship. If you’re like me, you’re probably wondering about how AI chatbots could be the reasons companies like OpenAI have been valued at $852 billion. Or why AI has become the widely and quickly adopted new technology in human history. Isn’t AI supposed to revolutionize business? Upend every profession and transform entire economies?  Perhaps. The trend is clear. It looks like many others have been turning to AI for help in fixing their toilets. (Claude was wrong in my situation, by the way.) More commonly, AI is less of a computer interface and more of a, well, human face. A friend to share jokes and silly pictures. An imaginative storyteller. A trusty counselor to assess your new relationship. A medium who can predict your future. And a wise confidant who promises not to lead you astray (or tell you what you don’t want to hear).  Given the wild predictions about AI’s unparalleled value, how can these cases be the most common ways we employ the technology? Is your daily horoscope worth $852 billion?  Now, what if I told you this is exactly what the builders of AI expected us to do?  That’s the vision behind a new book, The AI Apocalypse: A Survival Guide for Humanity, which I edited along with Skyler Flowers and The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. I spoke on my introduction from the book at a recent TGC regional chapter meeting in Nashville.  Thank you to TGC Nashville and Edgefield Church for hosting and recording this podcast in front of a lively and engaged audience. You could have heard a pin drop when I talked to these (mostly) pastors about why AI will write their next sermon. Now is the time to work through the ethical implications together and decide where to draw the line. In This Episode: 0:00 AI's Unexpected Role as a Human Companion and Counselor 7:21 AI, Love, and the Lessons from Her 13:37 The Role of AI in Defining Human Purpose 20:17 The Impact of AI on Literacy and Human Creativity 28:51 The Irreplaceable Human Touch in Preaching Amid AI Advancements 38:39 Navigating AI Ethics in Church, Family, and Education 40:41 The Impacts of AI on Society and Economy Resources Mentioned: AI Apocalypse edited by Collin Hansen Empire of AI by Karen Hao The Odyssey by Homer Social Acceleration by Hartmut Rosa Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics The Gospel Coalition Recorded (Podcast) by The Gospel Coalition — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The patron saint of cultural apologetics is Augustine of Hippo, author most famously of City of God and Confessions. Second place is up for debate. But you’ll get a lot of votes for a 17th-century disciple of Augustine, the Frenchman Blaise Pascal. Graham Tomlin describes Pascal as the “man who made the modern world” in a new biography. Tomlin is the director of the Centre for Cultural Witness in Oxford, England. He writes of Pascal that “it is hard to think of anyone who has impacted so many fields of human endeavour in such a short time.”  Here’s a taste from Tomlin about Pascal’s accomplishments: he basically invented probability theory; proved the existence of the vacuum; laid the foundations of integral calculus; conducted the first modern scientific experiment; developed theory that made possible the hydraulic press; demonstrated that air has weight; designed and built the first mechanical calculating machine, which led to what we know as the computer; set the trend of wearing wrist watches; and built the first public urban transportation system in Europe.  And did I already mention he was one of the most effective and enduring cultural apologists of all time, perhaps second only to Augustine? Tomlin writes, “His was a Christianity founded in a profound experience of God, an intense devotional life and a form of faith that offered a radical alternative to the comfortable assimilation to culture that the Church of his day often seemed to promote.” Let’s talk to Graham Tomlin about this remarkable man, who lamented man’s inability to sit quietly by himself, who observed, “The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing.” In This Episode: 00:00 – Pascal’s wager and living as if Christianity is true 00:49 – Introducing Blaise Pascal, the cultural apologist who helped make the modern world 02:36 – Pascal’s remarkable inventions, including public transportation and the Pascaline 05:42 – Augustine’s influence on Pascal’s theology of desire, fallenness, and grace 08:11 – Why Pascal trusted reason in science but not as the starting point for faith 10:46 – Pascal’s “Night of Fire” and encounter with the living God 16:43 – Why Pascal went to war with the Jesuits 20:20 – Jansenism, Calvinism, and Pascal’s understanding of grace 25:51 – The hiddenness of God as an argument for faith 32:38 – How human misery points toward human greatness 39:46 – What Pascal’s Wager actually means 48:45 – Pascal, Jonathan Haidt, and the psychology of belief 49:05 – “Make it attractive”: Pascal’s enduring strategy for cultural apologetics 51:59 – How Pascal anticipated both the modern and postmodern worlds 59:22 – What Pascal would say about modern science and scientism 1:01:43 – Why Pascal’s faith speaks to people who have looked into the abyss 1:03:21 – Outro Resources Mentioned: Blaise Pascal by Graham Tomlin  Pensées by Blaise Pascal  The Provincial Letters by Blaise Pascal  Confessions by Augustine  City of God by Augustine  The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt  The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt  The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics    — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Back in 2024 Kevin Vanhoozer’s book Mere Christian Hermeneutics: Transfiguring What It Means to Read the Bible Theologically won the Christianity Today book award in the academic theology category and also won The Gospel Coalition book award in biblical studies. I couldn’t even begin to account for all the other awards he’s won for earlier works.  I had the blessing of studying under Dr. Vanhoozer at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. And I was challenged in this book just as I was challenged and encouraged in his courses. Mere Christian Hermeneutics helps all of us who live on the far side of the “demise of biblical civilization.” When Westerners want to tell the story of the world, we no longer open the Bible. Vanhoozer aims to reconnect us with Scripture as our means of enjoying “covenant fellowship with the triune God.” I loved this summary in the book: “How an unholy people can come into the presence of a holy God is the chief complication in the biblical narrative to which the gospel is the solution.” So let’s get into mere Christian hermeneutics, reading the Bible spiritually, the Transfiguration, and much more. In This Episode:00:00 – The transfiguration of Jesus and the way Christians read Scripture00:39 – Introducing Mere Christian Hermeneutics01:58 – What makes this approach to hermeneutics “mere”?03:26 – How different reading cultures divide Christians05:01 – Polarization among Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox Christians06:52 – The loss of Christianity’s cultural influence in the West07:46 – Does Catholic authority solve Protestant interpretive pluralism?10:43 – What does it mean to interpret the Bible spiritually?13:23 – How the transfiguration guides Christian interpretation16:08 – Why Christians should not separate Jesus from the Bible18:24 – Johannes Oecolampadius and Scripture’s Christ-centered scope21:57 – Bridging the divide between biblical scholars and theologians25:05 – Kant, critical thinking, and the rise of biblical criticism27:34 – The hidden assumptions modern readers bring to Scripture30:14 – Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and teaching systematic theology32:37 – Cultural hermeneutics and the formative power of culture36:24 – The current state of theological interpretation of Scripture39:29 – Potential dangers in theological retrieval41:40 – Protestant catholicity and unity amid secondary disagreements42:02 – Vanhoozer’s work with the Alexandrian Institute44:35 – His four-volume systematic theology project46:19 – Brahms, young theologians, and reasons for hope47:13 – What pastors can learn from Henry James48:54 – Outro Resources Mentioned: Mere Christian Hermeneutics by Kevin Vanhoozer Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis Meditation in a Toolshed by C. S. Lewis The Bible Made Impossible by Christian Smith The Death of Scripture and the Rise of Biblical Studies by Michael C. Legaspi The Portrait of a Lady by Henry James The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Only a couple years out of college, I told my coworkers that I looked forward to being old. They weren’t just dismissive of that comment. They were indignant. On one level, I know why. I understood little to nothing at age 23 about the hardships of aging and caring for the dying. I hadn’t yet suffered many of life’s inevitable pains. At the same time, I looked forward to greater wisdom, maybe even defeat of some sins and temptations. I was excited about all I could learn if the Lord granted me years. Maybe I even had a couple Bible verses in my head, like Proverbs 16:31: “Gray hair is a crown of glory; it is gained in a righteous life.” Or Job 12:12: “Wisdom is with the aged, and understanding in length of days.” Both those verses are cited by Jen Wilkin in her excellent new book, Dust to Dust: Aging Wisely in an Anti-Aging World, published by Crossway. If you take my youthful naiveté at its best, I was recognizing what Jen distinguishes in her book: the world says to age is to diminish. But the Bible says to age is to deepen. Now in middle age, however, I experience the good and bad: the invisibility because no one would possibly notice my appearance. But also the freedom: because I have that middle-age dad’s superpower of not caring what other people think of my appearance.  I didn’t realize how much I needed Jen’s book, and I’m eager to ask a whole bunch of questions now on Gospelbound. In This Episode: 00:00:00 – Jen Wilkin reflects on her mother’s death and the symmetry of life 00:00:49 – Why Collin has long looked forward to old age 00:01:20 – Introducing Dust to Dust and the contrast between cultural decline and biblical deepening 00:02:31 – Why modern culture values youth over old age 00:03:55 – Jen’s first moments of realizing she was aging 00:05:46 – How aging feels different for men and women 00:07:49 – Why many people fear becoming a burden 00:10:08 – Assisted suicide, dependency, and surprising cultural opposition 00:14:47 – The “chiasm of life” and how beginning and end mirror each other 00:21:02 – Why midlife offers a unique vantage point for perspective and wisdom 00:24:50 – Caring simultaneously for children and aging parents 00:29:12 – Why caregiving is not a season but a default setting of life 00:32:10 – How modern longevity has changed the experience of family and aging 00:36:25 – “You will not surely die”: the anti-gospel of age denial 00:37:52 – How suffering narrows our priorities 00:40:34 – Honoring parents and the fuller meaning of the fifth commandment 00:45:44 – Retirement, crystallized knowledge, and later-life vocation 00:50:46 – A theology of aging before a debate about anti-aging practices 00:55:33 – Jen’s regrets, sanctification, and learning to honor parents well 01:00:26 – Final reflections on aging, family, and hope 01:01:07 – Outro Resources Mentioned: Dust to Dust by Jen Wilkin From Strength to Strength by Arthur Brooks The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis   — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You might think AI is the most exciting technological development of all time, and you’ve been vibe coding before the rest of us had ever heard the term.  Or maybe you think AI is the most dangerous technological development of all time, and you’re desperately hoping someone will step up to stop autonomous weapons and programs powerful enough to thwart any existing security system.  Or maybe you’re somewhere in the middle. Maybe you still don’t know what all the fuss is about.  No matter where you are, I know I can recommend a new single-season TGC podcast called Silicon Spiritualities, hosted by Christopher Watkin, a fellow at The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. My friend Chris also contributed two chapters to the forthcoming book I edited with Skyler Flowers, titled The AI Apocalypse: A Survival Guide for Humanity. I love hearing Chris teach on just about anything. But his reflections on AI have been especially insightful for me, and I’m eager to welcome him back to Gospelbound to discuss these two new projects. In This Episode: 00:00 – The hidden human cost of AI training 00:36 – Introducing Christopher Watkin, Silicon Spiritualities, and The AI Apocalypse 01:48 – The gospel story Silicon Valley tells about AI 06:01 – Investor hype, idolatry, and AI religions 08:09 – Data workers, exploitation, water use, and the wider AI industry 12:03 – Avoiding both AI doom and AI hype 14:26 – Is AI more like the internet, electricity, or agriculture? 17:20 – Why Christian anthropology is not threatened by AI intelligence 21:01 – Why a frictionless life can become passive rather than free 25:30 – Using AI with integrity in writing and creative work 27:16 – Watkin’s practical uses of AI at home and in his work 29:34 – AI companionship and the desire to be known and loved 34:10 – Mutuality, reciprocity, and what AI cannot share with us 39:19 – Consciousness, imitation, and participation 41:51 – Transhumanism and the temptation to outgrow humanity 45:22 – Why studying AI has made Watkin more excited about God 48:29 – AI, existential risk, and the problem of the human heart 54:31 – Alignment, sycophancy, Her, and the imitation game 59:37 – Closing remarks Resources Mentioned: Silicon Spiritualities | TGC podcast hosted by Christopher Watkin  Deep Work by Cal Newport “Computing Machinery and Intelligence” / “The Imitation Game” by Alan Turing    — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrew Wilson is one of the happiest guys I know. So it only makes sense that he would write a book called Happiness: What It Is, Where to Find It, and How to Make It Last Forever, published by Crossway. He’s the expert. I’m delighted when I see Andrew at a TGC conference, or a retreat for The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. I look forward to every chance to spend time with him. He writes in this book, “Nothing is more honoring to a friend, a child, or a spouse than saying they make you happy. Nothing is more demeaning to them than telling them they don’t.” I can say, with no reservation, Andrew makes me happy when we’re together. Ok. But where does that leave the rest of us? If we’re not naturally happy? If we’re not feeling happy right now? If we’re not hanging out with Andrew? The Declaration of Independence, 250 years ago, put happiness at the center of life’s aim: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” Andrew covered that statement in his excellent earlier book, Remaking the World: How 1776 Created the Post-Christian West. Given the anniversary, I plan in this interview to sneak in a question or two about that fateful year. And we’ll discuss much more, including the difference between joy and happiness, whether God promises happiness, and why millennials grew up to be sad. In This Episode: 00:00 – What makes us genuinely happier 00:40 – Why Andrew Wilson wrote a book about happiness 04:29 – Happiness, sorrow, and biblical examples of deep joy 07:26 – Is joy different from happiness? 11:53 – Does God promise happiness to Christians? 13:35 – Why millennials became less happy as adults 19:41 – Freedom, responsibility, and the limits of liberation 23:21 – The “problem of superfluous happiness” 26:01 – How pursuing happiness helps us fight sin 29:23 – Why virtue, gratitude, and humility make us happier 32:53 – Compassion versus empathy 34:15 – Turning delights into disciplines 37:06 – Remaking the World and America’s 250th anniversary 39:48 – What makes the United States unique? 47:08 – Discovery, defense, temperament, and optimism 48:55 – Closing and book recommendations Resources Mentioned: Happiness by Andrew Wilson Remaking the World by Andrew Wilson Generations by Jean M. Twenge The Happiness Hypothesis by Jonathan Haidt The Expulsive Power of a New Affection by Thomas Chalmers — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Different preachers get excited about different aspects of the sermon. Some collect and deploy excellent illustrations. Others just nail the application week after week. Others can really reach your heart.  What really fires me up are the connections between the Old and New Testaments, the way God’s plan of redemption unfolds in familiar and new ways from Genesis to Revelation. So you know I’d be excited about an excellent new resource, the CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament, edited by G. K. Beale and Benjamin Gladd. This study Bible includes a robust cross reference system that will help you see Old Testament quotations, allusions, and parallels within the New Testament so you can see all 66 books as a unified story from God. You’ll also find book introductions, study note commentary, articles, charts, and infographics. In This Episode: 00:00:00 – Why continuity between Old and New Testament wording matters 00:00:41 – Introducing the CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament 00:01:53 – Ben Gladd and the mission of the Carson Center 00:04:06 – Why another study Bible? 00:07:06 – Green and blue fonts: changing the reading experience 00:08:24 – Quotations, allusions, and the “connective tissue” of Scripture 00:11:06 – Why Old Testament allusions matter for Bible study 00:12:46 – John 6, grumbling, and Israel in the wilderness 00:13:46 – Mark 1, John the Baptist, and the burning bush 00:15:41 – “Fishers of men” and Jeremiah 16 00:18:55 – Reading Revelation through Old Testament “emojis” 00:22:07 – John 1:1, Genesis 1:1, and Christology 00:27:47 – How the apostles read the Old Testament 00:31:19 – Guardrails for identifying legitimate allusions 00:35:36 – Do English translations obscure biblical connections? 00:42:27 – How pastors can use the study Bible in sermon preparation 00:44:19 – Why pastors should use the Old Testament for illustrations 00:48:31 – The Carson Center’s Concise Bible Commentary 00:53:44 – Learning from Don Carson and G. K. Beale 01:00:11 – Dictionary of the New Testament Use of the Old Testament 01:00:44 – Biblical Theology Briefing podcast 01:02:34 – A future Connecting Scripture Old Testament 01:05:19 – Closing Resources Mentioned: CSB Connecting Scripture New Testament edited by G. K. Beale and Benjamin L. Gladd Keep Watch for Biblical Allusions by Ben Gladd ESV Study Bible CSB Study Bible NIV Study Bible Concise Bible Commentary from the Carson Center and Crossway Dictionary of the New Testament Use of the Old Testament edited by G. K. Beale, D. A. Carson, Benjamin L. Gladd, and Andrew David Naselli New Studies in Biblical Theology series Pillar New Testament Commentary series Biblical Theology Briefing Podcast with Ben Gladd and Matthew Harmon — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Alister McGrath remembers life as an atheist back in the late 1960s. He believed only what could be proven to be true. And he judged religious believers for trusting in an irrational fantasy. Looking back, though, he can see an emotional basis for what he thought were purely rational conclusions. He didn’t want God to exist, because God would threaten his freedom. As an atheist he could do whatever he wanted. He could be the center of the universe.  Now as a Christian and one of the most well-known apologists in the world, McGrath sees how much desire determines what we believe about the universe. He says, “The human desire for unaccountability leads to the metaphysical conclusion that there should not be a God.” Last summer McGrath and I caught up when he was the keynote speaker at a Beeson Divinity School conference on Persuasive Preaching. I was invited to engage and respond to his presentation. Alister is a theologian and Christian apologist with a particular interest in the relation of science and faith. In fact he recently retired as a professor of science and religion at Oxford University.  I know him as a godly encourager and kind interlocutor. I’ve learned a lot from him on various subjects, especially C. S. Lewis. In fact, I was listening to him at Lanier Library in Houston when he inspired me to begin work on a book about Lewis and Winston Churchill. So I’m excited to talk with him again about atheism and apologetics and a heavy dose of Lewis. In This Episode: 00:00 – Why belief cannot always be proven 00:37 – Collin introduces Alister McGrath, atheism, desire, and C. S. Lewis 02:19 – McGrath’s move from atheism to Christianity in 1971 03:58 – Conversion as a process rather than an instant transformation 05:07 – C. S. Lewis’s “Is Theology Poetry?” and Christianity as a big picture of reality 06:30 – Christianity as aligning with the deep truths of the universe 08:01 – The New Atheists and the power of rhetorical certainty 11:06 – Why the New Atheist movement faded 13:26 – How apologetics has changed over the decades 16:29 – Tim Keller’s apologetic influence 20:25 – Integrating apologetics into preaching 23:22 – Faith versus fact—or faith versus faith? 24:28 – Enlightenment assumptions and the limits of proof 26:33 – Morality, Christianity, and secularized Christian values 28:31 – Truth, meaning, and transformative belief 30:07 – “Bleakness is not an indicator of truth” 31:53 – C. S. Lewis, Winston Churchill, and wartime apologetics 35:03 – Lewis, The Problem of Pain, and the BBC broadcasts 36:52 – Lewis’s faith, academic career, and public apologetics 39:53 – The Weight of Glory and spiritual flourishing in wartime 42:39 – Lewis on marriage, forgiveness, and the Holocaust context 45:29 – The Guardian, archives, and The Screwtape Letters 48:44 – McGrath’s storytelling apologetics and closing reflections 49:38 – Gospelbound outro Resources Mentioned: Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis The Problem of Pain by C. S. Lewis The Screwtape Letters by C. S. Lewis The Great Divorce by C. S. Lewis The Weight of Glory by C. S. Lewis The Air We Breathe by Glen Scrivener Dominion by Tom Holland The Dawkins Delusion? by Alister McGrath Making Sense of Us by TGC and The Keller Center The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is there a fate worse than condemnation?  Yes, say Allen Guelzo and James Hankins in their new textbook, The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition: Volume II: The Modern and Contemporary West. Worse than everyone hating you is no one remembering you.   Right now for Western civilization, the former is leading to the latter. Having been widely condemned as oppressive, imperialist, colonizing, and appropriating, Western civilization is sometimes not even taught, let alone celebrated for producing the moral, technological, political, economic, and lifestyle achievements that give shape to our world. The Golden Thread helps in remembering and teaching without ignoring the failures and shortcomings of Western civilization. The textbook collaborators Guelzo and Hankins have been acquainted for more than 50 years. Hankins wrote volume one, and Guelzo has written volume two. Guelzo is the Thomas W. Smith Distinguished Research Scholar and director of the James Madison Program’s Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship at Princeton University. Guelzo is a long-time favorite writer of mine, not least for his work on the American Civil War and Abraham Lincoln, for which he last appeared on Gospelbound in 2024. I’m honored to host him again as we commemorate the 250th anniversary of the founding of the United States, one of the hinge points in Western civilization in that memorable year of 1776. In This Episode: 00:00 – Why Western civilization slips away when taken for granted 00:25 – Introducing Allen Guelzo and The Golden Thread 02:24 – How should we define Western civilization? 08:02 – The fall of communism and the West’s crisis of confidence 11:23 – China, radical Islam, Russia, and civilizational conflict 12:47 – Self-criticism as the West’s strength and danger 15:38 – World wars, Darwin, Freud, communism, and lost confidence 19:49 – The atomic age and the misuse of scientific achievement 22:09 – Defending the West without triumphalism 25:38 – Winston Churchill, trauma, and Christian civilization 30:15 – Adenauer, de Gaulle, and rebuilding Europe after 1945 32:38 – Strange defeat, German memory, and Russia’s missed moment 38:37 – C. S. Lewis, John Paul II, and Christianity in a skeptical age 39:28 – Contingency, crisis, and the decisions that shape history 42:24 – Christianity, Greece, Rome, and the “layer cake” of the West 51:33 – Technology, memory, and the future of civilization 53:39 – Lincoln, King, Augustine, and recovering the tradition 58:17 – Could artificial intelligence revive classical education? 59:37 – Closing encouragement Resources Mentioned: The Golden Thread Volume I by Allen C. Guelzo & James Hankins The Golden Thread Volume II by Allen C. Guelzo & James Hankins The Golden Thread Substack The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas The End of History and the Last Man by Francis Fukuyama The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order by Samuel P. Huntington Strange Defeat by Marc Bloch Secondhand Time by Svetlana Alexievich The Abolition of Man by C. S. Lewis God in the Dock by C. S. Lewis Dominion by Tom Holland Lord of the Flies by William Golding — — — 📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You will find many books on the biblical and practical importance of the local church. I wrote one myself a few years ago with Jonathan Leeman called Rediscover Church: Why the Body of Christ Is Essential. But few books can match the way Brad Edwards shows us the need for the church amid rampant anxiety, division, and individualism. Not only our churches but even whole societies would be transformed by implementing the wisdom found in this book, called The Reason for Church.  Brad is the church planter of The Table Church in Lafayette, Colorado. His debut book has been justly acclaimed. He won the 2025 Christianity Today Book of the Year Award and also finished first in the Church and Pastoral Leadership category. He was the winner of The Gospel Coalition's award for First-Time Author that year as well. I’m grateful that he joins me now to talk about everything from authority and institutions to anxiety and whether unity should be the goal for a church. In This Episode: 00:00 – Opening: power, trust, and the temptation toward conformity 00:26 – Introducing Brad Edwards and The Reason for Church 01:41 – Ranking the causes behind declining trust in church authority 04:05 – Accountability, social media, and the limits of online justice 08:25 – Churches, institutions, platforms, and marketplace logic 11:17 – What changes people’s minds about the need for church? 13:27 – Church planting in Boulder County and Colorado’s anti-institutional culture 17:01 – Therapy culture, spiritual abuse, and what the book could not fully address 22:19 – Institution building, movements, and building a remnant 26:30 – Technology, schedules, and the challenge of spiritual formation 29:09 – Individuality versus individualism 34:39 – Should unity be the goal of a church? 37:49 – What surprised Brad most about becoming a pastor 39:21 – AI, agency, and the future of formation 43:07 – Hartmut Rosa, resonance, gambling, and the desire for control 46:55 – AI, education, responsibility, and authorship 52:05 – The church as remnant and refuge in a changing world 53:19 – What pastors want their congregations to know 56:41 – Closing and Gospelbound outro Resources Mentioned: The Reason for Church by Brad Edwards Rediscover Church by Collin Hansen and Jonathan Leeman Bowling Alone by Robert D. Putnam Yuval Levin’s work on institutions Bully Pulpit by Michael J. Kruger GIRLS® by Freya India The Reason for God by Tim Keller Center Church by Tim Keller Dominion by Tom Holland Habits of the Heart by Robert Bellah The Uncontrollability of the World by Hartmut Rosa PostEverything, Brad Edwards’s podcast with John Homsher Harper’s Magazine article on young AI founders   — — —   📫 SIGN UP for my newsletter, Unseen Things: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/podcasts/gospelbound 🎁 Help The Gospel Coalition build up a renewed church for tomorrow. Let's Build Together: Donate Today at https://www.tgc.org/together 🎧 Don’t miss an episode of Gospelbound with Collin Hansen ▫ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospelbound/id1499898207 ▫ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0kRYr5FTKr5ru1N7MR65Br ✅ SUBSCRIBE:  ▫ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thegospelcoalition ▫ TGC Updates: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/newsletters Use code “GOSPELBOUND” for 25% off tuition. Learn more at downlinememphis.com/virtual-institute or email [email protected] for group pricing and discounts.Check out The Pour Over Podcast — politically neutral news for people who want the facts without the spin, and with a brief biblical perspective Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.