Firewalls Don't Stop Dragons Podcast

Cellular providers need to know your location in order to deliver calls and text message to your phone. But it turns out that they really don’t need to know who you are to give you that service. They only need to know how to bill you – and that information can be at little as knowing your ZIP+4 code. Why do we give so much personal information to our mobile service providers when we don’t have to? Today, Nick Merrill, founder of Phreeli, will explain how he can give you top notch cell service and know almost nothing about you. Interview Notes Phreeli: https://www.phreeli.com/  Double Blind Armadillo: https://www.phreeli.com/files/PhreeliDoubleBlindArmadilloWhitePaper.pdf  Wired article: https://www.wired.com/story/new-anonymous-phone-carrier-sign-up-with-nothing-but-a-zip-code/  Call Detail Record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_detail_record  2600 Magazine: https://www.2600.com/  Zero-Knowledge Proofs: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/how-zero-knowledge-proofs-work/  Further Info My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:12: Intro 0:02:25: Zero Knowledge Proofs! 0:03:35: Lingo 0:07:29: How did you come to found Phreeli? 0:15:08: Who is your target audience? 0:19:18: How can you get by with just ZIP+4? 0:24:10: Is Phreeli more private, say, Mint? 0:28:33: How do I recover my Phreeli acccount? 0:30:22: What identifiers are tied to cell phones? 0:37:12: Can Phreeli work law requires KYC? 0:41:09: How do you separate billing from service? 0:47:23: How can a cellular provider hide a user’s location? 0:51:44: Do telecom networks have inherent privacy problems? 0:55:30: How do you handle lawful intercept? 0:59:13: How do you convince the skeptics? 1:02:19: What’s the current feature roadmap? 1:04:19: Wrap-up 1:08:59: Patron podcast preview 1:10:35: Looking ahead

In my seemingly never-ending quest to replace all things Google, I’ve finally found some solid, private alternatives to Google Sheets and Google Forms. And we’ll also talk about how the EU is looking to create competing products to reduce their dependence on Big Tech from Silicon Valley. In the news: Australian drivers’ info exposed in breach; school admissions website leaked student data; Discord is rolling out age verification; more countries move to ban social media for kids; Big Tech companies volunteer data to DHS on anti-ICE users; Meta wanted to sneak out facial recognition; researchers find tricky bugs in password managers; DJI robovacs were wide open on the internet; Ring’s mass surveillance efforts garner blow back; Russia blocks WhatsApp and Telegram. Article Links More than 200,000 Australian drivers exposed in massive data breach https://www.drive.com.au/news/over-200000-driver-licences-hacked-in-massive-data-breach/ Bug in student admissions website exposed children’s personal information https://techcrunch.com/2026/02/19/bug-in-student-admissions-website-exposed-childrens-personal-information/ Discord will require a face scan or ID for full access next month https://www.theverge.com/tech/875309/discord-age-verification-global-roll-out These are the countries moving to ban social media for children https://techcrunch.com/2026/02/17/social-media-ban-children-countries-list/ Reddit, Meta, and Google Voluntarily Gave DHS Info of Anti-ICE Users https://gizmodo.com/reddit-meta-and-google-voluntarily-gave-dhs-info-of-anti-ice-users-report-says-2000722279 Meta reportedly wants to add face recognition to smart glasses while privacy advocates are distracted https://www.theverge.com/tech/878725/meta-facial-recognition-smart-glasses-name-tag-privacy-advoates Password managers less secure than promised https://ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2026/02/password-managers-less-secure-than-promised.html The DJI Romo robovac had security so poor, this man remotely accessed thousands of them https://www.theverge.com/tech/879088/dji-romo-hack-vulnerability-remote-control-camera-access-mqtt With Ring, American Consumers Built a Surveillance Dragnet https://www.404media.co/with-ring-american-consumers-built-a-surveillance-dragnet/ WhatsApp and Telegram blocked in Russia, Meta ‘extremist organization’ https://9to5mac.com/2026/02/12/whatsapp-and-telegram-blocked-in-russia-as-meta-designated-an-extremist-organization/ Europe is ready to ditch US tech for private alternatives https://proton.me/blog/european-alternative-us-tech-survey Tip of the Week: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/de-google-my-life-part-5/  Further Info Avoid tax scams: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/its-tax-scam-time/  Try Mastodon! https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/how-to-move-to-mastodon/   Proton referral link: https://pr.tn/ref/ZMNG3DNK  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:07: Intro 0:01:54: News rundown 0:04:27: 200k+ Australian drivers’ data exposed 0:08:08: Aadmissions site exposed children’s info 0:12:44: Discord to implement age checks 0:23:50: Countries looking to ban social media for kids 0:29:40: Meta, Google Gave DHS Info of Anti-ICE Users 0:32:37: Meta wants to add face recognition while privacy advocates are distracted 0:37:10: Password manager bugs fixed 0:39:57: DJI robovacs security flaw fixed 0:45:43: Ring’s new Search Party feature 0:56:36: Russia blocks Telegram, WhatsApp 0:59:15: Europe is ready to ditch US tech 1:04:26: Tip of the Week 1:08:07: Proton referral 1:08:50: Patron podcast preview 1:09:20: Looking ahead

Today I speak with Yahoo CISO Sean Zadig – aka, the Chief Paranoid. Sean has had a long and varied career in cybersecurity, working both in law enforcement (at NASA!) and working security for Big Tech. I’ll ask Sean how we can teach our kids about cybersecurity, and how to protect them from the worst of the internet without compromising anyone’s privacy. I’ll also get his perspective on the relationship between Big Tech, user data, law enforcement and the Fourth Amendment. Interview Notes The Paranoids (Yahoo): https://www.yahooinc.com/our-technology/paranoids  Suddenly a CISO: https://www.yahooinc.com/paranoids/suddenly-a-ciso-four-pieces-of-transitional-advice  Clipper Chip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip  Further Info My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:13: Intro 0:01:20: Lingo 0:02:06: How did you become CISO at Yahoo? 0:05:38: Has AI made you job harder? 0:08:54: What the Paranoid ethos? 0:11:49: What a kids taught about cybersecurity? 0:14:05: How do we interest kids in cybersecurity? 0:17:35: How do we get kids to care about privacy? 0:21:42: Can we verify age privately? 0:25:06: Should parents control content restrictions? 0:28:36: Are kids echewing tech today? 0:31:51: How do we combat CSAM? 0:40:31: What’s it like working in law enforement? 0:47:14: Can we get Big Tech to collect less private data? 0:52:19: Is law enforcement skirting the 4th Amendment? 0:58:14: What’s next for The Paranoids? 1:00:01: Wrap-up 1:00:12: Patron podcast preview 1:01:10: Survey highlights 1:05:40: 2026 Milestones 1:06:49: Looking ahead

The latest craze with artificial intelligence is agentic AI – exhibited most recently in the viral AI project called ClawdBot… or Moltbot… or OpenClaw. (The name has changed two times in less than a week.) You download this software, give it access to your AI chatbot accounts, and then give it full and complete access to your computer and online accounts. Why? So you can have an all-powerful assistant who can do real things in the real world as if they were you! What could go wrong? In other news: a new lawsuit claims Meta can read all your WhatsApp messages; an AI toy exposed chat transcripts of their toddler owners; another AI app leaks millions of private conversations; TikTok’s new terms of service are very scary; the US wants visitors to fork over tons of personal info; UK officials were hit by Volt Typhoon; the UK wants to increase facial recognition in public places; the FBI failed to unlock journalist’s iPhone with Lockdown Mode enabled; Google adds cool anti-theft features; CA town disables Flock cameras; Google cripples home proxy network; and Firefox adds one toggle to disable AI features. Article Links WhatsApp Encryption, a Lawsuit, and a Lot of Noise https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2026/02/02/whatsapp-encryption-a-lawsuit-and-a-lot-of-noise/ An AI Toy Exposed 50,000 Logs of Its Chats With Kids to Anyone With a Gmail Account https://www.wired.com/story/an-ai-toy-exposed-50000-logs-of-its-chats-with-kids-to-anyone-with-a-gmail-account/ Massive AI Chat App Leaked Millions of Users Private Conversations https://www.404media.co/massive-ai-chat-app-leaked-millions-of-users-private-conversations/ TikTok’s New Terms of Service Has Raised Alarm Bells https://lifehacker.com/tech/tiktoks-new-ownership-tos-concerns The Trump Administration wants your DNA and social media https://www.privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/5713/trump-administration-wants-your-dna-and-social-media Hackers suspected of spying on UK officials’ calls for years https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/27/chinalinked_hackers_accused_of_yearslong/ Police to get 40 new live facial recognition vans and AI help in sweeping reforms https://news.sky.com/story/facial-recognition-technology-to-be-rolled-out-nationally-and-police-will-get-ai-support-13499172 FBI Couldn’t Get into WaPo Reporter’s iPhone Because It Had Lockdown Mode Enabled https://www.404media.co/fbi-couldnt-get-into-wapo-reporters-iphone-because-it-had-lockdown-mode-enabled/ Google Just Updated These Android Theft Protection Features https://lifehacker.com/tech/google-just-updated-these-android-theft-protection-features California city turns off Flock cameras after company shared data without authorization https://therecord.media/california-city-turns-off-flock-cameras-unauthorized-sharing Google cripples IPIDEA proxy network abused by crims https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/29/google_ipidea_crime_network/ Mozilla Adds One-Click Option to Disable Generative AI Features in Firefox https://thehackernews.com/2026/02/mozilla-adds-one-click-option-to.html Tip of the Week: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/agents-of-misfortune/  Further Info TikTok’s Real Privacy Risks: https://internetsafetylabs.org/blog/research/tiktoks-real-privacy-risks/  Private TikTok viewer: https://sticktock.com/  EFF’s Atlas of Surveillance: https://www.atlasofsurveillance.org/  DeFlock: https://deflock.org/  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:07: Intro 0:00:51: News rundown 0:02:51: WhatsApp encryption questioned 0:11:34: AI toy’s logs exposed 0:16:17: AI app leaks user data 0:19:27: TikTok gets worse for privacy 0:23:52: US demands more visitor data 0:30:41: UK hit by Salt Typhoon 0:33:47: UK proposes more mass surveillance 0:36:51: Lockdown Mode protects WaPo journalist iPhone 0:43:03: New Android anti-theft features 0:45:54: CA town shuts down Flock 0:49:07: Google hobbles bad proxy network 0:52:33: Firefox AI kill switch 0:55:18: Tip of the Week 1:02:08: Wrap-up 1:02:21: Patron podcast preview 1:02:30: Looking ahead

We’re all busy people with busy lives. We only have so much time and energy. So when security people dole out to-do lists, we really need to focus on the tips with the most bang for the buck. Conversely, we need to avoid wasting people’s precious resources on advice that is no longer valid or worth the effort. Today, we’ll debunk several of these “Hacklore” tips with security guru Bob Lord. Interview Notes Hacklore: https://www.hacklore.org/letter  Hacklore resources: https://www.hacklore.org/resources  Elevator (un)safety analogy: https://medium.com/@boblord/psa-elevator-un-safety-7ac69a9498de  DNC Security Checklist: https://democrats.org/security/  CISA Secure by Design: https://www.cisa.gov/securebydesign  MITRE’s 2007 Unforgivable Vulnerabilities (PDF): https://cwe.mitre.org/documents/unforgivable_vulns/unforgivable.pdf  Take 9: https://pausetake9.org/  Consumer Reports Security Planner tool: https://securityplanner.consumerreports.org/  EFF security planning: https://ssd.eff.org/module/your-security-plan  Removing online data: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/data-diet-introduction/  Generate passphrases with d20 dice! https://d20key.com/#/  Dragon coupons: https://fdsd.me/coupons/  Rafifi (film): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048021/  Xkcd password strength: https://xkcd.com/936/  Further Info My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:14: Intro 0:00:25: Survey, promo wrap-up 0:01:30: Interview setup 0:02:22: Lingo definitions 0:02:52: What drove you to launch Hacklore? 0:07:12: Is this advice truly wrong? 0:11:51: 1) Avoid public WiFi 0:17:38: 2) Never scan QR codes 0:22:43: 3) Never charge devices from public USB ports 0:24:38: 4) Turn off Bluetooth and NFC 0:28:25: 5) Regularly clear cookies 0:32:47: 6) Regularly change passwords 0:38:19: Why do we not have web password standards? 0:44:24: Any bad tips that didn’t make the cut? 0:45:53: WIll Hacklore be regularly updated? 0:46:32: What has been the response to Hacklore? 0:48:08: So what are the actual top security tips? 0:49:56: How do we shift the onus to software makers? 0:53:14: What other resources can you recommend? 0:55:40: What’s next for you? 0:56:53: Wrap-up 1:00:40: Generating passphrases 1:02:00: Accessing show notes 1:03:08: Dragon coupons 1:03:40: Patron podcast preview 1:04:24: Looking ahead

There exist many interesting technical tools which can greatly improve our privacy while still allowing us to use very personal data. In the next installment of my series on Privacy Enhancing Technologies, we’ll look at zero-knowledge proofs – what they are, how they work and what types of privacy problems they can address. Specifically, we’ll show how you can prove that you know a secret without actually revealing the secret. In other news: Florida may be implementing an age-gating law; the UK government is now considering a ban on VPNs; 17 more people browser plugins that steal your data; popular apps used to harvest data using real-time bidding; police unmask millions of surveillance targets due to Flock redaction failures; AI company sued for secretly scoring job seekers; Microsoft gives BitLocker keys to FBI; and the FTC finalizes restrictions on GM car data gathering and sharing. Article Links Oppose Florida’s AI age verification bill, protect your privacy https://www.miamitech.club/oppose-sb-482/ UK government targets VPNs in online safety consultation as Lords vote for ban https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/uk-government-targets-vpns-in-new-online-safety-consultation-as-lords-vote-for-ban If You’ve Installed Any of These 17 Browser Extensions, Delete Them Now https://lifehacker.com/tech/delete-malicious-ghostposter-browser-extensions Candy Crush, Tinder, MyFitnessPal: See the Thousands of Apps Hijacked to Spy on Your Location https://www.wired.com/story/gravy-location-data-app-leak-rtb/ Police Unmask Millions of Surveillance Targets Because of Flock Redaction Error https://www.404media.co/police-unmask-millions-of-surveillance-targets-because-of-flock-redaction-error/ AI Company Eightfold Sued Helping Companies Secretly Score Job Seekers 2026 01 21 https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/ai-company-eightfold-sued-helping-companies-secretly-score-job-seekers-2026-01-21/ Microsoft Gave FBI BitLocker Encryption Keys, Exposing Privacy Flaw https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2026/01/22/microsoft-gave-fbi-keys-to-unlock-bitlocker-encrypted-data/ FTC Finalizes Order Settling Allegations that GM and OnStar Collected and Sold Geolocation Data Without Consumers’ Informed Consent https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/01/ftc-finalizes-order-settling-allegations-gm-onstar-collected-sold-geolocation-data-without-consumers Tip of the Week: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/how-zero-knowledge-proofs-work/  Further Info Annual Listener Survey!!! https://fdsd.me/survey2026  New Patron Promotion!! https://fdsd.me/promo126  Data Privacy Week: https://www.staysafeonline.org/data-privacy-week   HaveIBeenFlocked: https://haveibeenflocked.com/  404 Media FOIA Forum: https://www.404media.co/foia-forum-archive/  NextDNS: https://nextdns.io/  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:07: Intro 0:00:51: Last call for survey, dragon coin 0:02:17: Winter storm 0:03:14: News preview 0:05:02: Proposed FL age-gating bill 0:11:33: UK government targets VPNs 0:15:42: More malicious browser extensions 0:21:22: Popular apps leaking personal info (again) 0:31:26: Have I Been Flocked? 0:41:37: AI company sued for secretly scoring job seekers 0:46:41: Microsoft give BitLocker keys to FBI 0:56:05: FTC restricts GM from selling car data 0:59:34: Tip of the Week 1:10:49: Wrap-up 1:12:16: Patron podcast preview 1:12:42: Looking ahead

Having data privacy laws are great. But if those laws can’t be practically enforced or your rights easily asserted, they’re not very useful. Modern cars are chock full of sensors, many of which are used to monitor the passengers and collect personal data. But cars are subject to privacy laws, too. Opting out of data collection or requesting data deletion should be straightforward. Andrea Amico and Merry Marwig from Privacy4Cars just completed a massive study on this, and the vast majority of auto brands had horrible user experiences for data management. They will share their findings with us on today’s show. Interview Notes Privacy4Cars: https://privacy4cars.com/  California UX whitepaper: https://privacy4cars.com/ux-california/  Vehicle Privacy Report tool: https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/  Company auto info: https://Privacy4Cars.com/CISO  GDPR auto info: https://Privacy4Cars.com/GDPR  Opt Out Code: https://optoutcode.com/ IoT on Wheels talk: https://instituteofprivacydesign.org/2025/08/11/cars-iot-endpoints-on-wheels-privacy-engineering-technology-education-discussion-peted-recording/  Data Diva car data graphic (slide 16): https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2024/05/15/V3_2024_May_IoTAB%20%20-%20Monroney%20Sticker%20Presentation_Privacy_subteam_compressed%20508.pdf  IoT Advisory Board Report: https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2024/10/21/The%20IoT%20of%20Things%20Oct%202024%20508%20FINAL_1.pdf  Enable Global Privacy Control: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/how-to-enable-global-privacy-control/  Further Info Annual Listener Survey!!! https://fdsd.me/survey2026  New Patron Promotion!! https://fdsd.me/promo126  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:14: Intro 0:01:06: Listener survey reminder 0:01:53: Patron promo reminder 0:02:30: Lingo definitions 0:03:14: What’s changed since our last talk? 0:08:15: What data do cars collect? 0:12:56: How could car data affect my insurance rates? 0:15:51: What was the purpose of your recent study? 0:23:01: How do authorized agents work? 0:28:01: How does Opt Out Code work? 0:33:21: What’s the response been to your report? 0:36:13: How do we make car data more obvious? 0:40:23: Does GDPR apply to cars? 0:45:17: What are some other cases to consider? 0:48:45: What’s the EU Data Act? 0:54:08: How do I limit my auto data sharing? 0:56:44: How remove car data before selling? 0:59:56: What’s next for you? 1:01:43: Wrap-up 1:03:25: Enable Global Privacy Control 1:05:24: Patron podcast preview 1:06:52: Looking ahead

AI has many problems, but also has promise. Today I’m going to focus on one particular problem that has some viable solutions: privacy. Chat bots like ChatGPT, Gemini and Claude all require your queries to be processed in the cloud. All the personal questions we ask are probably being logged against our identity and could be used to train future AI models or to present us with targeted ads. But there are alternatives that protect your data – I’ll give you a handful of solid options. In other news: a Texas court has blocked the app store age verification law; Flock’s people-tracking cameras have horrible security; PornHub confirms data leak due to third party; stalkerware maker pleads guilty; Texas sues 5 TV makers over data collection; Wegman’s grocery using facial recognition in NYC; New York’s surveillance pricing transparency law goes into effect; DROP tool debuts in California for deleting broker data; two Chrome extensions caught stealing chat bot session text; ChatGPT rolls out new Health tool. Article Links Judge blocks Texas app store age verification law https://www.theverge.com/news/849752/texas-app-store-accountability-act-age-verification-injunction Flock Exposed Its AI-Powered Cameras to the Internet. We Tracked Ourselves https://www.404media.co/flock-exposed-its-ai-powered-cameras-to-the-internet-we-tracked-ourselves/ PornHub Confirms Premium User Data Exposure Linked to Mixpanel Breach https://thecyberexpress.com/pornhub-data-breach-premium-users/ Founder of spyware maker pcTattletale pleads guilty to hacking and advertising surveillance software https://techcrunch.com/2026/01/06/founder-of-spyware-maker-pctattletale-pleads-guilty-to-hacking-and-advertising-surveillance-software/ Texas sues 5 smart TV manufacturers over data collection practices https://therecord.media/texas-sues-5-smart-tv-makers-over-acr-tech Popular grocery store chain uses biometric surveillance on shoppers, raising privacy concerns https://www.aol.com/articles/popular-grocery-store-chain-uses-130056099.html How New York’s Personalized Pricing Law Affects Consumers And Retailers https://www.forbes.com/sites/anishasircar/2025/12/03/new-yorks-algorithmic-pricing-law-what-it-does-and-why-it-matters/ This Tool Deletes Your Info From Data Broker Sites (If You Live in One State) https://lifehacker.com/tech/california-new-data-removal-tool Two Chrome Extensions Caught Stealing ChatGPT and DeepSeek Chats from 900,000 Users https://thehackernews.com/2026/01/two-chrome-extensions-caught-stealing.html Why I Won’t Be Giving ChatGPT Health My Medical Records https://lifehacker.com/tech/dont-give-chatgpt-health-your-medical-records Tip of the Week: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/ai-chat-privacy/  Further Info Annual Listener Survey!!! https://fdsd.me/survey2026  New Patron Promotion!! https://fdsd.me/promo126  Flock You project: https://github.com/colonelpanichacks/flock-you  Shodan: https://www.shodan.io/dashboard  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch Table of Contents 0:00:07: Intro 0:00:36: Listener survey 0:01:24: Dragon coin promo 0:02:11: News rundown 0:04:00: Court blocks Texas app store age check 0:09:52: Flock exposed its AI cameras to internet 0:21:04: Some PornHub user data leaked 0:26:22: Stalkerware maker pleads guilty 0:33:57: Texas sues 5 TV makers over data collection 0:39:39: Wegmans grocery is using facial recognition 0:44:33: NY personalized pricing law goes into effect 0:47:28: CA tool mass-deletes broker data 0:50:49: Two Chrome extensions steal AI chat records 0:54:56: ChatGPT unveils new Health feature 0:58:25: Tip of the Week 1:07:28: Wrap up 1:07:47: Patron podcast preview 1:08:23: Looking ahead

There are a ton of messaging apps on the market – and there are actually quite a few that are very secure and private. I would argue that there is no such thing as a “perfect” secure messaging app. There are several threat models to account for, each with different requirements. Today we’re going to talk about the pros and cons of decentralized messaging with the co-founder of Session, Kee Jeffreys. These messaging apps don’t rely on a set of servers hosted by the provider, but rather on a mesh of nodes run by hundreds or thousands of others. We’ll also discuss the importance of protecting metadata and the notion of “permissionless access”. Session just announced support for key features in the upcoming version 2 of their protocol, including Perfect Forward Secrecy (PFS) and post-quantum encryption. Interview Notes Get the Session app: https://getsession.org/  Session adds PFS, post-quantum crypto: https://getsession.org/blog/session-protocol-v2  xkcd $5 wrench (“Security”): https://xkcd.com/538/  Further Info Annual Listener Survey!!! https://fdsd.me/survey2026  New Patron Promotion!! https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/new-patron-promotion/ Generate passphrases using d02’s: https://d20key.com/#/  My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support the mission: https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:13: Intro 0:01:12: Promotion teasers 0:01:54: Interview setup 0:03:33: Lingo 0:05:07: Why did you create Session? 0:11:01: How does the location of a company’s HQ matter? 0:18:58: Why do regular people need this level of security? 0:22:01: How does Session work? 0:29:59: Why does permissional account creation matter? 0:35:55: How does Session compare to other apps? 0:45:27: Why didn’t Session have Perfect Forward Secrecy originally? 0:53:50: When will PFS roll out? 0:58:37: How does cryptocurrency factor into Session’s network? 1:03:32: What happens if $SESH price goes way up or way down? 1:07:19: How does Session sustain itself? 1:13:34: Why is private messaging so important? 1:19:49: Wrap-up 1:22:34: Patron podcast preview 1:23:44: New patron promotion 1:27:14: Annual listener survey

Every week, I record a special, private bonus podcast for my patrons. Normally all of that content is restricted to my supporters. But today I’ve got a sampler platter of some of the best snippets from my bonus Q&A with my interview guests. You’ll hear from Yael Grauer (Consumer Reports), Josh Summers (All Things Secured), Lisa LeVasseur (Internet Safety Labs), Josh Corman (UnDisruptable27), Andy Liddell (EdTech Law Center), Carissa Véliz (author, professor), Eamonn Maguire (Proton), Grace Menna & Adrien Ogee (Cyber Resilience Corps). Enjoy! Original Interview Links Ep416: Yael Grauer: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/02/17/security-planner/  Ep420: Josh Summers: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/03/17/all-things-secured/  Ep422: Lisa LeVasseur: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/03/31/microscoping-our-apps/  Ep428: Josh Corman: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/05/12/shelter-from-the-storm/  Ep426: Andy Liddell: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/07/07/defending-student-privacy/  Ep438: Deviant Ollaf: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/07/21/passport-lawyer-locksmith/  Ep446: Carissa Véliz: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/09/15/on-the-ethics-of-ai/ Ep453: Eamonn Maguire: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/10/27/privacy-focused-ai/  Ep454: Grace Menna & Adrien Ogee: https://podcast.firewallsdontstopdragons.com/2025/11/10/becoming-cyber-resilient/  Security Planner: https://securityplanner.consumerreports.org/  App Microscope: https://appmicroscope.org/  Take 9: https://pausetake9.org/  Meshtastic: https://meshtastic.org/  Previous dragon coin promo: https://firewallsdontstopdragons.com/dragon-coin-promo/  CISA Bad Practices: https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/bad-practices-0 Further Info My book: https://fdsd.me/book  My newsletter: https://fdsd.me/newsletter  Support our mission! https://fdsd.me/support  Give the gift of privacy and security: https://fdsd.me/coupons  Get your Firewalls Don’t Stop Dragons Merch! https://fdsd.me/merch  Table of Contents 0:00:07: Intro 0:03:55: Ep416: Yael Grauer 0:10:51: Ep420: Josh Summers 0:16:36: Ep422: Lisa LaVasseur 0:22:21: Ep428: Josh Corman 0:30:03: Ep426: Andy Liddell 0:35:49: Ep438: Deviant 0:41:55: Ep446: Carissa Veliz 0:47:12: Ep450: Jake Braun 0:52:55: Ep454: Grace Menna & Adrien Ogee 0:55:44: Wrap-up