Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast

Why does everything have to be about picking a side?This week, Debra and Peter start with the long-awaited arrival of a new minister for civil society and ask what the appointment says about the government's relationship with the charity sector. From previous ministers who genuinely engaged with charities to the Civil Society Covenant, procurement and public service contracts, they explore what meaningful partnership between government and civil society should actually look like.The conversation then turns to something much darker: the intimidation and threats facing charity staff and volunteers. Prompted by the treatment of RNLI volunteers, Debra and Peter discuss the pressures facing organisations working with refugees and asylum seekers, the difference between legitimate protest and intimidation, and what happens when people simply trying to help others become targets themselves.That leads into a wider conversation about asylum, communities and our increasingly polarised public debate. Can we acknowledge people's fears while still treating those seeking refuge with humanity? Why does recognising complexity so often get interpreted as choosing a side? And have we lost the ability to accept that two things can be true at the same time?And then there's the question of men. From mob mentality and violence to football, cricket and the need to belong, Debra and Peter begin unpacking a much bigger question about masculinity, identity and where men find their sense of community. It's a subject they promise to return to, because 30 minutes was definitely not going to be enough.Plus: Peter attempts to relive his student days in Leeds, only to be informed by Wanless Junior that he's embarrassing himself, Somerset continue to put him through emotional turmoil, and he's off to Switzerland with plans for a spot of Alpine yodelling.And finally, this episode lands on the eve of Debra and Peter's birthday. Happy birthday for tomorrow to the podcast Twinnies! 🎂🎂Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 80! Let’s talk about sector, baby. Let’s talk about you and me. Or, according to Debra’s AI transcript, perhaps we’d better not.Yes, artificial intelligence has been hard at work at DSC, where the Third Sector Awards have somehow become the rather more intriguing “Third Sex Awards”. But once Debra and Peter have recovered from that, they turn to a much bigger question: do we really believe in second chances?With Harry and Meghan potentially returning to the UK, Debra wonders why some public figures become permanent pariahs. Peter suggests separating three things we often bundle together: forgiveness, forgetting and redemption. Can we forgive without forgetting? Who gets to decide when someone has redeemed themselves? And does genuine remorse have to come first?The conversation moves from the Royal Family to cricket, criminal justice and rehabilitation, exploring what happens when someone’s past behaviour clashes with our values, even when we claim to believe that people can change.They also ask what punishment is actually for. With prisons under increasing pressure, should our focus be on locking people away for longer, or on creating genuine opportunities for rehabilitation? And what happens when we stop seeing the human being and see only the crime they committed?There’s particular praise for the charities working in criminal justice, supporting people and causes that are often deeply unpopular while continuing to believe that change is possible.Plus, Ebbsfleet United are alive and actually playing football, Somerset are dreaming of making history, Peter is distributing enough home-grown vegetables to survive a minor apocalypse, and both hosts confront the increasingly unavoidable evidence that they may, in fact, be getting older.All this and more in Episode 80 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 79! The Ebbsfleet United cliffhanger continues, Somerset have finally proved they can win without Craig Overton, and Peter commits what may be his greatest sporting faux pas yet by congratulating a new father without actually asking the baby's name.From there, Debra and Peter turn to politics and welfare, looking at Reform UK's proposals and the wider debate about benefits, employment and public spending.Should welfare be seen simply as a cost, or as an investment in helping people participate in society? Are people out of work because they lack motivation and skills, or because the jobs, support and reasonable adjustments they need simply are not there? And should the focus be less on changing people and more on changing the systems and employers around them?They also discuss proposals for compulsory community or voluntary work, and what that could mean for charities. Volunteering might provide valuable pathways into employment, but charities cannot simply be handed thousands of people and expected to support them at no cost.Along the way, they reflect on organisational resilience, the risks of depending too heavily on one key person, and how leaders like Andy Burnham can maintain authenticity when every word they say is under scrutiny.Plus, Debra shares a truly unforgettable story from the Youth Training Scheme involving a young colleague, a telephone message and rather too much information about where Debra was at the time.And a reminder that Peter will be chairing the DSC Charity Leadership and Governance Summit on 7 and 8 October, covering strategy, sustainable leadership, accountability, reputation, power, culture, AI and much more.Find out more and book your place:https://www.dsc.org.uk/event/the-dsc-charity-leadership-and-governance-summit/All this and more in Episode 79 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 78! Peter is marking 40 years since his first day in the Civil Service, Debra is celebrating 25 years at DSC, and Ebbsfleet United are facing a very uncertain future.The conversation then turns to the death of Jason Arday and the intense scrutiny he faced. Debra and Peter discuss racism, media responsibility, public shaming and what happens when the person at the centre of a story gets lost behind the headlines.They also reflect on the pressure that comes with leadership and public life. How much resilience should we expect people to have? What responsibility do organisations and trustees have to support leaders when they are under attack? And should we simply accept media pile-ons as part of the territory?Finally, Peter looks back at his own route into the Civil Service as Debra and Peter discuss diversity, merit and widening access. Does actively looking for people from underrepresented backgrounds mean lowering standards, or does it simply help us find talent that might otherwise be overlooked?Plus, why experience does not always mean having the answers, why most things are recoverable, and a cliffhanger over the future of Ebbsfleet United.All this and more in Episode 78 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 77! Spain are World Cup champions, and the conspiracy theories have managed more attempts than Argentina did.Debra and Peter begin by reflecting on what football can teach us about winning, losing and leadership. From there, the conversation turns to why people cling to explanations even when the evidence points elsewhere, and how easily the madness of crowds can take hold.They also explore mistakes, psychological safety and the challenge of creating organisations where people genuinely feel able to speak honestly. Why do staff sometimes hide mistakes even when they know they will not be punished? And how can leaders tell whether their culture is truly open, rather than simply assuming it is?Finally, the discussion moves to Andy Burnham’s new government, devolution and the place of charities and civil society in a changing political landscape. With power shifting around the country, Debra and Peter ask whether this is a bold new chapter or whether, in the spirit of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the sector is still being treated like a small and largely overlooked planet.All this and more in Episode 77 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 76! England's World Cup dream may have ended in the final minutes, but Debra and Peter's conversation about courage, leadership and speaking up couldn't be more timely.After reflecting on another emotional night of football (and Peter's hopes for Somerset's T20 campaign), they turn to a much more serious topic: the growing impact of polarisation on charities.Prompted by the Charity Commission's latest research and the tragic death of Ann Widdecombe, Debra and Peter discuss how increasing hostility in public life is affecting charities, from security costs and online abuse to the psychological impact on leaders and staff. Should charities continue speaking out when doing so carries personal risks? How can trustees better support their teams? And where should organisations draw the line when deciding whether to remain on platforms like X?With a new Prime Minister about to take office, they also share practical public affairs advice on building relationships across politics and why charities should always think beyond today's headlines.All this and more in Episode 76 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 75! Debra and Peter are back, and this week, football may or may not be coming home, but Peter definitely isn’t, as he worries about his onions, potatoes and spinach from the heat of London.After a World Cup catch-up, including Spain, England, late-night football stress and Peter’s power cut drama, Debra and Peter turn to a much bigger question: what role does lived experience play in campaigning, charity work and justice?Prompted by the court case involving Prince Harry, Sir Elton John, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and others against Associated Newspapers, they explore the difference between emotion, storytelling and evidence. Charities are built on lived experience, compassion and a sense of justice, but what happens when those stories need to meet the much higher evidential bar of a courtroom?They also discuss democracy, citizens’ juries, Nigel Farage, political short-termism and the importance of context when people are asked to make decisions. And as the pace of public life keeps speeding up, Debra and Peter reflect on how charities can stay resilient, hold onto their values and provide stability when everything else feels like a bit of a hurly-burly.All this and more in Episode 75 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

How much should we trust the people around us?This week, Debra and Peter explore one of the biggest challenges facing every leader: building a culture of trust while protecting organisations from the small number of people who abuse it.The conversation begins with two thought-provoking new books. Fresh from attending the launch of Caroline Slocock's Bad Government and How to Make It Better, Debra reflects on what makes government succeed or fail. Meanwhile, Peter shares insights from Baroness Beeban Kidron's Users, a compelling look at how Big Tech has reshaped our lives and why it's time to rethink who technology should really serve.From the inner workings of Whitehall to the influence of Silicon Valley, they discuss the lobbying tactics used by technology companies, why charities can find themselves played off against one another, and how well-intentioned organisations sometimes end up tackling the symptoms rather than the causes of society's biggest problems.Prompted by the shocking case of a fundraiser who faked references, fabricated funding applications and even pretended to have cancer, Debra shares an extraordinary story from her own career about an employee whose elaborate deception left an entire team feeling betrayed. Together, they ask whether experiences like these should make organisations more cautious, or whether trust should always remain the starting point.From there, Debra and Peter discuss flexible working, remote management and why performance should be judged by outcomes rather than hours. Should cameras always be on during meetings? Is curiosity a better management tool than suspicion? And how do you create an organisation where people feel trusted without making it easy for the wrong people to take advantage?Plus: Peter enjoys an unusually lucky week on the Eurostar, Debra confesses to judging strangers' phone conversations on trains, and we discover that even wearing an ID badge can become an unexpected act of rebellion. José, we're expecting to see yours at the next Zoom meeting... 👀Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

It's hot. Very hot. Hot enough for Peter to resurrect a potentially lethal fan from the garage and for Arthur the dog to rack up a £380 vet bill after an unfortunate encounter with a bee.But the real sting this week comes from Westminster.With the Prime Minister stepping down and Andy Burnham looking increasingly likely to take over, Debra and Peter discuss leadership, ambition, succession and what happens when someone moves from running one part of the system to running the whole thing. Is the top job really the prize people think it is, or is it just the biggest poisoned chalice of them all?They explore why some leaders seem able to attract public support while others struggle to connect, whether charisma is overrated, and what leadership looks like when difficult decisions have to be made.The conversation also turns to what a change of Prime Minister could mean for charities. What happens to the government's relationship with civil society? Will the work already started on the Covenant survive a change in leadership? And how much influence does one individual really have on the relationship between government and the sector?Finally, Debra and Peter compare political succession with leadership transitions inside charities. From outgoing chief executives and incoming leaders to interim appointments, trustee behaviour and the challenges of handing over responsibility, they reflect on what makes a transition successful and why so many organisations get it wrong.Plus: the King of the North, the missing King of the West Country, leadership war stories, dangerous desk fans, and proof that Arthur remains one of the most expensive dogs in the charity sector.Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

This week begins in the garden, but it doesn't stay there for long.As Peter battles an endless supply of weeds and Debra reflects on the idea that a weed is simply a plant growing in the wrong place, the conversation quickly branches out into leadership, culture and the challenges facing charities today. Can underperformance sometimes be a sign that someone is simply in the wrong role? And is moving people on always a failure, or sometimes the kindest thing a leader can do?Fresh from speaking at the Mind Federation leadership conference, Debra explores the difference between being caring and being accountable. Together, she and Peter discuss psychological safety, safeguarding, difficult conversations and why healthy cultures require both compassion and clear expectations.The discussion then turns to Somerset Cricket's recent successes and the importance of learning from what goes right, not just what goes wrong. Why do organisations spend so much time analysing failure and so little time understanding success?And speaking of cricket, the pair tackle the controversy surrounding England captain Ben Stokes and the question at the heart of so many leadership debates: should leaders be held to a higher standard than everyone else? From accountability and role modelling to mental health and public expectations, it's a thoughtful conversation about what leadership really demands.Finally, they explore the increasingly complex role of lived experience in decision-making, following debate around the NSPCC's position on social media restrictions. How do organisations genuinely listen to the people they serve while still making difficult decisions? And why does disagreement so often get mistaken for not being heard?Plus: football fever, safeguarding lessons from cricket, leadership war stories, and proof that even weeds have something to teach us about people, performance and finding the right place to grow.Send your questions to [email protected] or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez