What Next: TBD | The Death of an Online Whisper Network

This week: Fed governor Lisa Cook is suing the Trump administration over her dismissal. Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers, and Emily Peck, along with guest Kashmir Hill of The New York Times, discuss the weak fraud case being used to oust the Biden-appointed Fed governor and its significance in the fight to preserve the independence of the Federal Reserve. Then, Kashmir goes in depth on the many stories she’s reported on lately of people forming intense relationships with AI chatbots that lead to dire consequences including psychosis and death. She and the hosts discuss the role of this new technology in our society, the unknowable consequences of its unchecked ubiquity, and what can be done to protect users from potential dangers. From the Numbers Round: Emily’s Birthday Pancakes PLEASE NOTE: There is discussion of suicide in this episode. If you are in need of help, 988 is the three-digit, nationwide phone number to connect directly to the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. Text, call, or chat 988. In the Slate Plus episode: Big Money on Taylor & Travis Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate staff writer Luke Winkie, whose piece “Is This What It Takes to Beat Trump?” examines Gavin Newsom’s latest social media strategy: shitposting. The California governor has started tweeting in the style of Donald Trump to ridicule the president and promote his new redistricting effort in California. It’s also paving the way for a potential presidential campaign in 2028. But is his comedy cutting, or just cringe? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The playlists of dozens of high-level government officials and tech executives were suddenly broadcast to the world on a website called “the Panama Playlists.” But the information wasn’t taken by sophisticated hackers infiltrating any mainframes—it was all already publicly available. Guest: Mike Isaac, New York Times Silicon Valley correspondent.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Blood has a very short shelf life, even under the best of conditions—and you can picture the less-than-ideal conditions where blood is frequently needed—which is why scientists have been working on a blood alternative. The results are promising. Guest: Nicky Twilley, host of “Gastropod” podcast and author of Frostbite: How Refrigeration Changed Our Food, Our Planet and Ourselves. Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your  other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

President Trump has proposed cutting $2.5 billion from the National Cancer Institute, which in addition to cuts to the National Institutes of Health and research universities almost makes you wonder: whose side is he on in the fight against cancer?  Guest: Angus Chen, cancer reporter for STAT news Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay get into the war between em dashes and artificial intelligence. Back in 2024, what started as a developer question became an all-out grammar war, with the use of em dashes becoming a possible indicator that something was written using ChatGPT. In the past week alone, several writers have published their defenses of the em dash and how we shouldn’t let ChatGPT ruin our favorite keyboard shortcut. However, the em dash may be a symptom of a bigger issue: have our AI detection skills gotten worse? Or, are we all doomed to be tricked by a hyphen or two? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two weeks ago, a gunman fired over 500 bullets at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention building in Atlanta. Between the anti-public health rhetoric coming from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at the top, personnel cuts and firings, and now a literal shooting, many employees are reaching their breaking point.     Guest: Lauren Weber, health science accountability reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay explain what’s going on between the internet’s favorite sad girls, Ethel Cain and Lana Del Rey. Where did their beef start and why is Peter Griffin involved? Then, they dive into a new TikTokker who dresses up as the Lorax, does spot-on Ariana Grande impressions, and could be our next big comedian. But first, our favorite TikTok dolls may finally start posting again. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Safiya is one clumsy coffee spill away from catastrophe. A Gen Xer who hasn’t yet embraced the cloud, she stores thousands of digital files, documents, and photos on devices with maxed-out storage limits. On today’s episode, Carvell Wallace brings on Caitlin McGarry, senior editor at Wirecutter. Caitlin talks with Safiya about practical ways to delete and organize—and how we can all build healthier habits in our digital lives.  Ready to dive even deeper? Explore these resources:  How to Organize Your Digital Files Digital Clutter Can Be Overwhelming. Here’s How to Clean Up. Your Phone’s Camera Roll Is a Mess. Here’s How to Clean It Up. How to Organize Desktop Apps Don’t Be a Digital Hoarder If you liked this episode, check out How To Be a Lazy Genius and How To Rethink Screen Time Do you have a problem that needs solving? Send us a note at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 646-495-4001 and we might have you on the show. Subscribe for free on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The show is produced by Rosemary Belson, with Kevin Bendis and Sophie Summergrad. Our technical director is Merritt Jacob and our supervising producer is Joel Meyer. Get more of How To! with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of How To! and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the How To! show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/howtoplus for access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The scam du jour arrives via a text message, offering you a job. What happens when you accept? Guest: Alex Sammon, Slate features writer.  Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices