How I Lead Without a Title | An Interview with Judy Clemans

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in February 2020. Dr. Steven G. Rogelberg is a professor of Organizational Science, Management, and Psychology at UNC Charlotte. The author of The Surprising Science of Meetings: How You Can Lead Your Team to Peak Performance, he is a distinguished scholar addressing issues such as team effectiveness, leadership, engagement, health and employee well-being, meetings at work, and organizational research methods. The book is a culmination of 15 years of research and thousands of surveys and interviews. It’s a collection of evidence-based insights and represents a strategic approach that leaders and organizations can take that’s highly practical and accessible, but also strongly based in science. In this interview, Steve talks with Kurt about applying the insights from his book to improving meetings in the Church environment. This presentation of this episode was originally included in the Meetings With Saints Virtual Conference, which is now part of the Core Leader Library. Links The Surprising Science of Meetings: How You Can Lead Your Team to Peak Performance StevenRogelberg.com There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts. Watch on YouTube Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 5:00 We know one thing but tend to do a different thing, but there is no formula for meeting success. Instead the key is making good choices, which is more empowering.7:00 Steve’s experience with members of the Church8:15 The cost of meetings is underestimated11:00 Being self-aware as a meeting leader: stewardship and making changes13:40 Things to reflect on that are signs that there needs to be improvement14:30 Start with a quick survey, then work on the little things and assess later17:00 Talking as the leader vs. leading the discussion20:00 Transparency and honesty allows you to lead from the back or the front in a genuine way21:10 Three phases of the meeting: planning/designing, facilitating, and post-meeting activity21:50 Planning a meeting is not time consuming and has a high return on investment23:45 Taking a “pre-mortem” moment before the meeting25:00 Agendas are a hollow crutch: what matters most is what is on that agenda and how it is facilitated Frame the agenda as a set of questions to be answered Allow other people to different agenda items Put the most important/compelling issues first 30:10 Parkinson’s Law: Work expands to fill whatever time is allotted How much time should it take? Dial it back a bit and create time pressure Volunteer time is a precious gift: build trust by respecting it 35:00 Combating minutiae in meetings by making meeting time incredibly purposeful38:00 Councils and update meetings What is a good update? Decide and then put people on the clock Silent updates via a shared document 41:20 Silence in a meeting is a way of engaging people44:25 Technology in a meeting: multitasking is a symptom of a bad meeting Keep meeting minutes in real time on the screen instead of a powerpoint People focused on their phones is actually feedback 47:00 Avoiding the meeting that should have been an email Recording your voice with the message you want to give and sending it out Start the meeting with questions about the message(s) you sent out 49:30 Presentations in meetings: have the person write their ideas in a document, then discuss it in the meeting51:30 Where to find his book and research on the science of meetings The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox,

Josh Coates studied computer science at UC Berkeley and is the executive director of the B.H. Roberts Foundation. Links The Unique Opportunity Local Leaders Have to Encourage Faith Among Latter-day Saint Millennials | An Interview with Jana Riess Josh Coates articles at Deseret News Stephen Cranney articles at Deseret News BH Roberts Foundation Mormonr.org LDSBot There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 3:20 Introduction to Josh Coates, one of the founders of the B.H. Roberts Foundation and Mormoner. They write short articles on controversial topics. 5:45 Who is B.H. Roberts? Why is the foundation named after him? 9:20 Josh and his foundation began a research project surveying Latter Day Saints. 16:00 Creating the survey in order to have useful data. You have to be very careful when formulating questions. 18:15 What were they looking to find out in the survey? 21:30 It seems like people are leaving the Church in droves. Is that really true? 23:30 They have found that there are two types of Latter-day Saints according to their analysis. Cluster 1 - 80% are pretty orthodox. Follow closely to the commandments and are very active in the Church. Cluster 2 - 20% are scattered in their beliefs even if they identify as Latter-day Saints. 29:40 Millennials are dramatically represented in the 20% of members that have scattered beliefs. We worry about Gen-Z a lot but maybe we are overlooking the millennials. 33:30 The cultural evolution of the Church has improved over the last 20 to 30 years but there have also been things that have eroded the foundation of people’s faith. 34:00 The difference between the different generations in the Church. Why are millennials struggling so much compared to other generations? 35:15 How can leaders better approach or talk to millennials? Separating policy and doctrine. 39:30 The data that Josh found on marriage and divorce in the Church. They found that temple marriages are a big deal. 42:00 Research on moral foundation theory. The five foundational values that go into making a decision: Will it hurt someone? Is it fair? Loyalty Authority Purity 52:00 The survey data on LGBTQ members of The Church of those that have left The Church and their view on marriage 54:30 Resources and places to go to find out more about Josh’s work. 56:00 Josh’s encouragement to Church leaders The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 700 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Sahr Doe found the Church when he was eight years old but could not be baptized until he was 13. His mission was delayed due to the Sierra Leone civil war, and at age 21 he was called into his Young Men presidency. He was then among the first missionaries to attend the Accra Ghana Missionary Training Center, and served in the Nigeria Lagos/Ibadan mission where he was an assistant to the mission president for 12 months. Two weeks after his mission he returned to the Ghana MTC as a tutor and driver for 18 months. Sahr served as district high counselor in the Freetown Sierra Leone district before being called as counselor in the district presidency. He then served as administrative assistant to the mission president of the Ghana Accra mission, Sierra Leone zone, while working as physical facilities manager for Sierra Leone. On his release from the district presidency, Sahr was called as the elders quorum president in his branch, then as branch president. He left to attend Brigham Young University-Hawaii for one semester, without his wife and son, but had an accident while working at the Polynesian Cultural Center and returned to Sierra Leone. He then started a construction company and was called as the secretary to the mission presidency, then as counselor to the mission president. When the 2014 Ebola virus outbreak sent the mission president, senior couples, and missionaries to Ghana, Sahr stayed as acting assistant to the president. He later assisted with orienting new mission leaders to the country and was called again as counselor to the president. In 2016 he was involved in a serious accident that left him partially paralyzed, and in 2017 was released from the mission presidency and called as secretary to the Area Seventy. He currently serves on the Kossoh Town stake high council. Links There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts. Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 2:45 Kurt introduces Sahr Doe and his background. 4:40 Sahr shares his conversion story. He was baptized at 13-years-old. He has been a member since 1993. 6:30 Making the decision to serve a mission and the civil war in Sierra Leone 7:50 What the church is like now in Sierra Leone in 2024 10:00 Sahr’s leadership callings 12:40 Getting called as branch president 14:00 Responsibilities while serving in the mission presidency 16:15 Working with the young missionaries and teaching them that with a willing heart nothing is impossible. 19:50 Sahr’s advice to missionaries that will go to serve in his country 20:55 Sahr is currently serving on the high council. He describes some of his responsibilities. 21:30 Being grateful amidst the challenges that present the people in Sierra Leone 24:00 Find an excuse to win no matter what you are going through. 27:30 You are in control of your pain. 29:30 Sahr shares a powerful leadership experience. When Sahr overlooked a man for a calling the Lord reminded him that whom the Lord calls, He qualifies. 33:50 More leadership stories and things Sahr learned from them 36:00 The principle of listening. Listen to people as our Heavenly Father listens to our prayers. 39:40 Great followers become great leaders and great leaders become great followers The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner,

Dr. Nate Sharp is a scholar and academic leader who currently serves as Dean of the Mays Business School at Texas A&M University. He was born in Salt Lake City, Utah, served in the Korea Seoul West Mission, then taught Korean at the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah, while attending Brigham Young University. Nate graduated from BYU’s Marriott School of Business with bachelor’s and master’s degrees in accounting and later completed a PhD at the University of Texas at Austin. During his time at Texas A&M, Nate has served in multiple leadership positions, received multiple awards recognizing excellence in research and teaching, and been widely published in top peer-reviewed scholarly journals.. Nate married Holly Carroll, they are the parents of five children, and their oldest daughter is currently serving in the Peru Lima Central Mission. Nate has previously served as an elders quorum president, ward Young Men president, ward executive secretary, bishopric counselor, high councilor, and bishop. He currently serves as stake president in the College Station Texas Stake, a calling he has held since 2016. Links Linking Every Sacrament Meeting to Christ | An Interview with Thomas Griffith Thomas Griffith's BYU Speech: The Very Root of Christian Doctrine Why Every Ward Needs Digital Ward Missionaries There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Transcript coming soon Scriptures referenced in this podcast: Doctrine & Covenants 45:3-5, John 5:38-40 Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 2:30 In a previous episode, Nate talked about having digital missionaries for the ward and the blog they created and the impact it made. 4:30 Getting called as stake president 8:40 Their stake has a large number of single adults. The recent changes to put singles and students in leadership has created lots of positive change in the singles ward. 10:45 Nate currently works for Texas A&M and is the dean of the Mays Business School. 12:30 The role of being a dean is about building relationships, selfless service, and elevating the school. The values they have on campus have created an environment similar to BYU. 19:30 Stimulating a positive culture as a stake president. They set a vision of creating a culture and doctrine of belonging. Including more students in leadership opportunities even if they won’t be there very long. 22:50 Approach to mentoring bishops and helping them establish culture in their wards 25:30 The bishop has the opportunity to demonstrate to the youth hopeful repentance. 28:15 How can bishops apply this idea of hopeful repentance? Let the youth know you are proud of them for coming forward with their sins. Share hope filled conference talks about repentance. The more modern resources the better. 35:00 Creating a Christ centered sacrament meeting. Helping people feel lifted up and not weighed down after sacrament meeting. 45:00 Christ is our advocate and pleads our cause. Nate shares Doctrine & Covenants 45:3-5. 50:00 Overcoming our view that our relationship with God is transactional. 55:00 John 5:38-40. Getting over the checklist mentality. The scriptures are an instrument to lead us to Jesus Christ. 1:00:40 Seeing how Jesus changes people’s lives and brings back their testimonies The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III,

Julie McAllister Hillyard was raised in Vancouver, Washington, served in the Philippines Bacolod Mission, and graduated from Brigham Young University with a degree in Psychology. She taught classes to male inmates and mentored female inmates at the Utah State Prison before and as she launched her career. Julie had the privilege of working and traveling with Dr. Stephen R. Covey, author of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and worked with him as he developed and wrote The 8th Habit. She joined him as he consulted with leaders of countries and companies and helped him prepare and deliver presentations to audiences around the world. Julie has served in various teaching callings, including as an Institute instructor, Relief Society teacher and president, Sunday School and Gospel Doctrine teacher, and Young Women leader. She currently teaches a stake adult religion class and the high school seniors Sunday School class in her ward. Julie is married with three fabulous kids, owns a pickleball paddle company with her husband, and does consulting work in leadership and communications. She is also a host on the Teaching Restored podcast. Links Teaching Restored Podcast Teaching Sunday School with Questions | An Interview with Kevin Jones The Power of Learner Councils | A How I Lead Interview with Russell Rigby The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters, by Pria Parker There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 2:10 Kurt introduces Julie Hillyard, the co-host of the podcast Teaching Restored. She shares what the podcast is about. 4:00 Julie’s professional background and experience in teaching. She currently teaches the adult religion class for her stake. 6:20 She worked for Stephen Covey, the author of 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. She shares her experience. 11:00 Julie’s stake offers an adult religion class on Tuesdays and Julie teaches it. It’s for people that want to dive more into the scriptures together. It’s like an institute class for adults. 15:30 Inviting discussion can be a vulnerable way to teach but invites something special. Balance discussion and teaching. 17:40 Her class isn’t about teaching all the content of Come Follow Me but setting people up for further study at home. It lines up with the Come Follow Me lessons. 20:00 Finding simplicity on the far side of complexity. As a teacher you have to dig through the weeds to arrive at what you need to focus on in your class. Discussions can be rich if they are facilitated in the right way. 22:00 Best practices for teaching the youth Be real. No fluff. Don’t talk about the superficial stuff. Connect on a casual level before teaching them. Build their trust with you first. 25:20 How to be real with the youth when teaching them. Bring your vulnerability to get vulnerability back. Engage in their vulnerabilities and empathize with them. Make every individual in the class feel seen, heard, and valued. 27:50 Don’t try to do too much with the youth. Julie recommends not breaking off into groups but in pairs. It works better to get them talking and so that people don’t hide in the background. 29:40 When your problem is too much discussion and your lesson is going all over the place. Balancing lecture and discussion. 32:00 Instead of a teachers council create a learners council. Teach people how to be better learners. Lay ground rules as the facilitator of the class so that the conversation and discussion moves the class forward and not all over the place. 37:00 We can create a culture in Sunday school. It can be awkward depending on how the teacher responds to comments and the questions they ask. 39:40 Set rules of gathering. Have people consider if their comment is helping move the lesson forward, how long their comment is, and how many times they comment.

Kempe Nicoll is the campus director at Eagle Gate College in Layton, Utah. He also manages the social media channels for Declare My Word. These accounts post gospel-related content intended to share light and truth, making it easy for social media users to share positive messages on their own feeds. Kempe served as a missionary in Estonia in 1996 and currently serves as a new Bishop in Bountiful, Utah. Previously, he served many years as a young men’s and Stake Mission Prep leader. He and his wife, Rachelle, are the parents of six children. Links Instagram: @declaremyword DeclareMyWord.org Instagram reel with the sister missionaries There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Coming soon The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 700 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Hailing from the heart of Utah, Joe Speredon's diverse background and experience led him into leadership within men's work. Having embarked on his own path of crisis and self-discovery, Joe discovered the healing nature of brotherhood and masculine support. From that place he founded the Utah Men's Circle and later the Algiz Guard. Working with Sacred Sons and many other influential leaders and groups, Joe has had the opportunity to travel all over the world, meet men from diverse backgrounds, and guide them through their own healing and evolution as a coach, leader and inspirational speaker. Joe currently serves in the Church as a Sunday School teacher and as a stake emergency preparedness specialist. Links UtahMensCircle.com Instagram: @utahmenscircle Facebook: Utah Men's Circle AlgizGuard.com Instagram: @thealgizguard Facebook: The Algiz Guard The Intentional Father: A Practical Guide to Raise Sons of Courage and Character There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 1:40 Introduction to Joe Speredon and his background 4:20 Joe shares why mens work is so important to him and how he got started in it. 6:00 Too many men are suffering in silence. However, when men open up they will find that they are suffering with the same things. 8:00 We have the engine (elders quorum) but we don’t know how to turn it on. We need men to be courageous enough to open up during elders quorum. 10:00 What is brotherhood? We’ve had a cultural shift that the cool thing is to be a lone wolf. Men think they have to do it all and do it alone. 14:30 The war that we fight is mostly against ourselves. The idea of brotherhood is it's me against myself and having brothers to help us be the best version of ourselves. 15:30 How can an elders quorum president stimulate brotherhood in Sunday meetings? Take off your own mask as the leader. Be open with your struggles. Be the first to be vulnerable and authentic and others will follow. 17:30 Joe created the Utah Men's Circle, a gathering twice a month for a couple hours, a time to check in and talk about how you are really feeling. 21:40 Have less formal gatherings and activities to connect and have conversations. 23:00 Doing men's work outside of elders quorum. We need to create a place for active and inactive members to connect without preaching. 26:00 The vilification of men and toxic masculinity 30:30 Due to wounding and conditioning and because they are mortal, men can turn into: The sadist, meaning I’m going to hurt you before you hurt me The masochist, meaning I’m going to hurt me before you can hurt me 32:00 To become more realigned is more than just getting your behaviors in check. You have to know where you are going and why you are doing it. 33:50 An archetype that gets thrown around a lot and is related to toxic masculinity is "king". We can have a reframing of the word king by doing self work. 36:40 As a society we have lost a lot of rights of passage for young men. We need to be giving young men opportunities to set up from boyhood to manhood. 40:10 Resources for fathers and men to find ways to step up and change. 42:10 Unrighteous dominion is another way to say toxic masculinity. What exactly is unrighteous dominion? 43:20 We are teaching young men that what you do is not so much the problem but it's about how everyone else feels about what you are doing. Instead, we need to help them focus on WHY they did what they did. 47:40 Joe wasn’t called to do men’s circle or help men but he reminds us that we don’t have to be commanded in all things and we should be anxiously engaged in good causes. The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free a...

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in April 2020. John Hilton III was born in San Francisco and grew up in Seattle. He served a mission in Denver and earned a bachelor’s degree from Brigham Young University, where he met his wife, Lani. They have lived in Boise, Boston, Miami, Mexico, Jerusalem, and China. Currently they live in Utah, and have six children. John has a master's degree from Harvard and a PhD from Brigham Young University, both in Education. John is a professor of Religious Education at BYU. John has published several books with Deseret Book, including Considering the Cross and his latest book, Voices in the Book of Mormon. He is also the author of the podcast and video series, “The Book of Mormon: A Master Class.” John loves being with his family, doing humanitarian work, learning Chinese, and performing magic. ©BYU PHOTO 2011 All Rights Reserved Links The Founder of Our Peace: Christ-Centered Patterns for Easing Worry, Stress, and Fear John's article discussing this topic: A Fence Around the Law – Safety Net or Beam in Our Eye John Hilton III books John's education research There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 7:04 John quotes President Uchtdorf addressing the many “shoulds” and “should nots” that become a challenge in our lives. We can lose peace in our lives when we focus on admittedly good ideas, but aren’t grounded in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 8:50 What are “Fence Laws”? Imagine an unfillable hole in your backyard, which poses a threat to children who may fall in. You therefore put a fence around this hole, which represents sin. The fence represents the protective effort against anybody falling into the sin. 9:45 We are already protected from sins by commandments, which John refers to as “core laws”. Yet some still feel the need to add additional “fence laws”. E.g.: Core Law: The law of chastity, i.e., no sexual relations outside of marriage Fence Law: No kissing until the fourth date, and kiss will last no longer than five seconds Fence Law: No going into the bedroom of a member of the opposite sex 10:47 Some fence laws have prophetic sources, like those found in the For the Strength of Youth, etc. There is a goodness to fence laws as guided by the Spirit or other divine sources, like prophets. 13:57 Examples of positive fence laws 15:22 Dangers of focusing on the fence laws while forgetting the commandments: “I didn’t go into the bedroom of a member of the opposite sex, but I still broke the law of chastity.” Children need fences, but the choices should shift away from extrinsic fences to self-imposed fences. 16:50 Too many good fences can become a burden. 22:58 “Take my yoke upon you” meaning 25:49 Ward traditions that become fences 28:56 Allowing the Spirit to fill in the details around prophetic direction 30:14 Anecdotes where a personal fence laws caused harm: Unrighteous judgment Offending others Teaching others incorrectly 43:20 Fences should help us feel the Holy Ghost 45:50 Leading Saints’ contribution to fence laws: learning by seeking to understand the purpose behind a fence 48:14 How to step back from the rush to judgment 51:48 When to correct and when to ignore as leaders 53:10 Did we become members of Christ’s church in order to argue with others what true discipleship looks like? Paul, when using dietary habits as an example of arguing over something inconsequential, said “For meat, destroy not the work of God.” (Romans 14:20) 55:14 “The work of God” and your role, the bishop’s role, and our common goal. 58:01 Trusting prophets as “seers”, even if we can’t “see” the point of their counsel 1:00:08 Review of four key points: It’s good to have spirit-driven fence laws Some fence laws can be burdensome Know the mark: loving God and loving our neighbors Judging others over fence laws,

Jacob Hansen grew up immersed in and passionate about ideas about the world. He grew up near Sparks, Nevada, in a blue-collar family with parents who now serve as a State Senator and in the Nevada State Assembly. He served a Church mission to Argentina and attended both Brigham Young University and BYU-Hawaii, graduating with a degree in Operations/Supply Chain Management. He then partnered with another recent-grad to start a company that continues to grow. Jacob married his college sweetheart, Erica, and they have four children. He loves just about anything that takes him on an adventure. Links YouTube @thoughtfulfaith2020 "Creating Genuine Belonging: Could This Revolutionize the Church?" Thoughtful-Faith.com Facebook Thoughtful Saints group There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 1:40 Introduction to Jacob Hansen, the creator of Thoughtful Faith YouTube channel. 3:10 A part of Jacob’s YouTube channel are formal debates. Listening to Christian vs Atheist debates saved Jacob’s testimony. 6:30 Contrast is what creates clarity. That’s why Jacob likes to talk to people that disagree with him and have debates. 7:30 Should most people debate? Formal debate is a skill set and not recommended for everyone. It’s not a good way to minister to someone. 10:00 Although argument doesn’t create conviction and belief, a lack of argument destroys the climate where belief can flourish. 11:30 Interest-based programs. Why are they important in the Church? We can combine values and people’s interests to create a great experience. 17:00 Ministry should happen at a ward level but when it comes to interest based activities you can do them at a stake level. Stop forcing people to go to activities they have no interest in. 20:30 We need to gather in these sub-interest groups for community and human connection between the saints. It’s not about entertainment. 22:00 How can Relief Society presidents and elders quorum presidents begin to implement interest-based activities? It can happen at the ward level but it’s easier for stake leaders because there are lots of people. 26:45 More people will engage in these interest-based activities because it’s actually something they are interested in. It’s also something that non members will show up to. Activities are a much better way to do missionary work. 29:30 These activities are not a ploy to get people baptized but we are bringing the Spirit into someone’s life and then they can decide what they want to do with it. We are facilitating opportunities and loving people. 34:00 Ultimately life is about being one with God and one with each other. The most valuable thing that we have in our lives is our relationships. That's why we do what we do. That’s why we are building community and groups. 35:50 What about the budget? Start with activities that you don’t need a budget for, such as a yoga night or jujitsu night. 38:00 Why not just do these activities outside the church entirely? 38:30 What if your idea isn’t supported by the bishop or other leaders? 40:30 Liability for these activities. How do we deal with it? Create a simple waiver. 42:30 The point is not the activities themselves. It’s about the vision. 48:00 Thoughts on being a leader The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B.

Doug McKinlay has a masters degree from Brigham Young University in Mass Communications, ran his own successful $35MM company for 17 years, and won national awards for advertising results and creativity. He has also taught as faculty at Brigham Young University for 16 years. Doug loves serving his fellow beings. In the Church, callings have included service as an elders quorum president, ward and stake Young Men president, stake executive secretary, stake high council, stake president and counselor, Regional Representative of the Twelve, mission president, and bishop. Links BYU Devotional: "The Approachable Master" There is already a discussion started about this podcast. Share your thoughts here. Watch on YouTube Read the transcript of this podcast Highlights 3:10 Introduction and background to Doug McKinlay 4:30 Doug shares his background of growing up in Utah. His career and leadership experience in the Church. He has served numerous callings such as stake president, counselor in the stake presidency, regional representative, and mission president. He is now 82 years old. 16:00 Getting called as stake president and calling counselors 20:20 Back in the day they used to fly stake presidencies into Salt Lake for leadership meetings in the Tabernacle. President Packer taught that the handbook is the what of church leadership and the scriptures are the how of church leadership. 21:50 When he was released as stake president he was called as a Regional Representative of the Twelve. Douglas explains the responsibilities and duties of this calling. 28:15 In the 80's and 90's they had regional conferences for all members and a member of the twelve would be there. As regional representative he would organize it. 29:30 As part of his calling, Doug was always there when a stake president was called and he also helped with training. 32:20 Doug helped President Hinckley find temple sites. 33:40 He served as regional rep for five years and then was called as mission president. Douglas describes the process and interviews he had before getting called. President Faust was the one who called him. 37:40 Doug was mission president in Tucson, Arizona. The mission was quite disobedient at the time and it took about a year to turn the ship around. 40:15 Shifting the mission culture. Making obedience cool. 42:15 Doug created doctrinal diagrams. Creating these diagrams helped with visual learning. 45:40 Get out from behind the desk and do what you proclaim. When Doug was stake president he figuratively released himself and called himself on a stake mission for a month. Focusing on mission work they were able to finally not only reach their baptismal goal but go over it. 49:50 What is your advice on having to get up and speak to an audience? Be timely and topical, as President Hinckley was. 52:00 He skipped being bishop and went straight to being stake president but in his sixties he was called as a bishop. 55:00 Doug is now 82 years old and is in a new phase of life. He gets to let others lead. 55:40 Doug’s final thoughts on being a follower and being a leader The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 700 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences,