Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy

My guest today is Shyam Sankar, the CTO of Palantir Technologies. In this conversation, we explore the ideas that shape how Shyam thinks about technology, talent, and national power. We discuss the origins of Palantir’s forward-deployed engineering model and the lessons he learned from Alex Karp about identifying people's "superpowers". We also talk about Shyam’s fascination with the "heretics" of American history, the unconventional builders who challenged bureaucracy and created many of the systems that powered America’s military and industrial success. Shyam argues that the United States must reindustrialize after decades of moving production overseas, and explains what we can learn from America’s industrial past. In a new Colossus profile, our Editor in Chief Jeremy Stern tells the story of how Shyam became one of the most important but largely unseen figures behind Palantir, tracing his journey from immigrant roots to employee #13 and the architect of the company's success and distinctive culture. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- ⁠Ramp’s⁠ mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, ⁠Vanta⁠ continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit⁠⁠ ⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is an AI-powered platform that automates accounts payable workflows, enabling finance teams to process invoices faster and with greater accuracy. Learn more at ⁠Rogo.ai/invest⁠. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:02:43) Intro: Shyam Sankar (00:03:24) Defining Heretics in US Military History (00:05:01) The Story of Hyman Rickover (00:09:55) Formative Experiences & Worldview (00:14:50) Components of American Greatness (00:17:56) How to Unlock Talent (00:25:56) Palantir's Distinct Culture (00:28:15) Origin of Forward Deployed Engineering (00:34:24) What Does Palantir Actually Do? (00:36:19) Example: Airbus (00:40:20) State of the US Military Today (00:47:33) The U.S. Needs to Reindustrialize (00:52:19) Perspective of China (00:55:56) Our Key Asymmetric Advantages (01:00:57) Executive Orders for a Day (01:02:37) Negative Aspects of US Culture (01:04:47) Managing Rapid Pivots (01:09:17) Where Will AI Value Accrue? (01:12:37) Undeclared State of Emergency (01:15:45) Surprising Aspects of Palantir (01:17:50) To Do or To Be (01:18:50) Reflecting on Fatherhood (01:19:46) The Kindest Thing

My guest today is John Arnold. John is probably the most famous energy trader of all time and certainly the most successful. One of the things John talks about is cultivating the best seat in your industry – the seat with the best perspective, the most information, the best systems..  John has been closely watching China's convergence in robotics, AI, and EVs, and shares his perspective from his recent trip to the country. We talk about the state of energy markets today – the misaligned goals and incentives, the NIMBYism that prevents building in America, and what he actually thinks about the wave of nuclear energy startups that everyone seems excited about.  John is also one of the most innovative philanthropists working today, applying that same analytical rigor to diagnosing structural failures across America — in healthcare, criminal justice, education, and beyond For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- Ramp’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, Vanta continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit vanta.com/invest.  ----- WorkOS is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit ⁠WorkOS.com⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- Rogo is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- Ridgeline has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like The Best (00:02:43) Episode Intro (00:03:43) Learnings from John’s Trip to China (00:06:28) The EV Industry in China (00:08:43) How Subsidies Create Intense Competition (00:10:54) US-China Relationship (00:12:42) The Cost of Greatness (00:14:52) Creating the Best Seat in the Market (00:19:30) Baseball Card Arbitrage (00:23:03) Trading Natural Gas Futures (00:24:59) Energy Market Making Explained (00:27:11) Why Energy is Exciting Again (00:31:14) Meeting the Increased Demand for Energy (00:32:53) Why Policy is the Biggest Threat to Progress (00:36:28) Fixing Energy Infrastructure in the US (00:39:29) Advanced Nuclear Technology (00:42:05) The Prospects of Energy Startups (00:43:44) Input Costs in Solar & Batteries (00:47:54) Geothermal Energy: The Most Exciting Sector (00:50:57) Housing Reform in the US (00:53:39) The Role of Philanthropic Foundations (00:57:00) Reforming the Criminal Justice System (01:03:48) Social Outcomes Downstream of Education (01:07:20) Misaligned Incentives in the Healthcare System (01:12:08) Journalism as a Public Good (01:14:17) The Kindest Thing

My guest today is Dan Sundheim. Dan is the founder and CIO of D1 Capital Partners. He thinks about markets and businesses constantly, and has built a career entirely around that obsession. He manages over $30B across both public and private markets, with investments in SpaceX, OpenAI and Anthropic, and a public portfolio of names you may never have heard of. Dan shares the story of the short case he wrote on Orthodontic Centers of America and posted on Value Investors Club, which crashed the stock, and helped him land his first job. He shares why he backed Anthropic at a moment when many people told him it was the Lyft to OpenAI’s Uber, what reading Dario Amodei’s essays reminded him of Jeff Bezos, and how he thinks about LLM business models through the lens of Netflix and Spotify. We spend time on the extraordinarily stressful moment in early 2021 when GameStop hit the firm, and what Dan believes is the single biggest tail risk facing the global economy right now. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- ⁠Ramp’s⁠ mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, ⁠Vanta⁠ continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit⁠⁠ ⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:02:43) Intro: Dan Sundheim (00:03:58) The State of Public & Private Investing (00:07:32) Investing in OpenAI and Anthropic (00:10:22) LLMs Business Model (00:14:13) How LLMs are like Netflix and Spotify (00:17:08) Focus v. Scope (00:22:43) The Bear Case for Hyperscalers (00:26:36) The Software Sell-Off (00:31:08) If Scaling Laws Stopped (00:32:18) Advice to a 12-Year-Old Investor (00:33:54) GameStop: D1’s Darkest Hour (00:37:14) The Pivotal Dinner with LPs (00:40:56) Staying Calm and Confident (00:42:08) Economic Optimism vs. Societal Uncertainty (00:44:26) Investing on SpaceX and Rivian (00:48:09) Why Dan Loves Shorting (00:48:51) Sources of Inefficiency in Today’s Markets (00:51:45) The Importance of Loyalty (00:53:11) Dan’s Group Chat for Founders (00:55:39) What Motivates Dan (00:57:28) Posting on Value Investors Club (01:01:46) What Dan Learned at Viking (01:04:22) The Beauty of Art (01:06:49) Under-appreciated Parts of the Global Economy (01:08:00) The US-China-Taiwan Collision Course (01:12:10) Good Leaders vs. Good Businesses (01:13:15) The Kindest Thing

This is my second conversation with Josh Kushner, founder and managing partner of Thrive Capital. I recorded this conversation in October after publishing the Colossus cover story about him and Thrive. Given the overwhelming response, we created some breathing room before releasing it. Josh started Thrive in 2011. The firm now manages approximately $50 billion with a very small investment team. What makes Thrive different is how concentrated they are and how involved they get with their portfolio companies. We cover the iconic investments that defined Thrive: Instagram, Stripe, GitHub, and spend a lot of time on OpenAI. Josh explains how Thrive thinks about investing today and the three categories they're currently focused on. Josh also talks about building the firm, why they keep the team small, and what he's learned from A24 about enabling artists to do their best work. He shares personal stories that shaped him, including his grandmother's experience surviving the Holocaust, and lessons from Stan Druckenmiller, Jon Winkelried, and others at formative moments in Thrive's history. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- ⁠Ramp’s⁠ mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, ⁠Vanta⁠ continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit⁠⁠ ⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- Rogo is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:02:43) Intro: Josh Kushner (00:03:46) How Thrive Has Changed Since 2023 (00:05:18) Thrive’s Entrepreneurial Culture (00:12:22) The Power of Small Teams (00:13:35) Sponsors (00:14:35) Concentration as Differentiation (00:16:16) The Github Deal (00:18:08) Lesson from Stan Druckenmiller (00:20:37) Leading Stripe’s $50 Billion Round (00:23:16) Instagram: Doubling an Investment in Days (00:25:43) Isomorphic: Thrive as an Enabling Technology (00:27:04) Thrive & A24 (00:28:19) OpenAI: The Product Josh Couldn’t Unsee (00:32:09) Pricing the OpenAI Investment (00:33:40) OpenAI and Power (00:35:26) Finding Joy in Hard Work (00:39:15) Inside View of the Tech & AI Landscape (00:42:28) Three Investment Categories Thrive is Focused On (00:44:37) Thrive Holdings: Inside-Out Disruption (00:48:54) Competition in Venture (00:50:49) Sponsors (00:51:48) Thrive’s Immutable Values (00:54:21) A Family Story of Survival (00:56:43) The American Dream (00:58:03) What Artists Can Teach Investors (01:00:26) Never Compromise Your Values (01:01:33) The Story Behind Josh’s Forever Watch

My guests today are Alex Behring and Daniel Schwartz, Co-Managing Partners of 3G Capital. 3G has built one of the most distinctive firms in investing around a simple idea: there are only a handful of truly great businesses and even fewer great CEOs. Their model is to raise capital with the intention of making just one investment per fund, commit meaningful amounts of their own money alongside their partners, and focus all of their time and best people on that single opportunity.  Their approach has produced a series of iconic deals, including Burger King, Tim Hortons, Hunter Douglas, and Skechers. They have also become known for developing talent early, giving young leaders real responsibility and ownership, and holding an unusually high bar. I highly recommend you read our in-depth profile on them and 3G Capital. They gave our managing editor Dom Cooke unprecedented access and the outcome is an excellent profile about the fifty year history of 3G and how the model began with Jorge Paulo Lemann in Brazil. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- Become a Colossus member to get our quarterly print magazine and private audio experience, including exclusive profiles and early access to select episodes. Subscribe at ⁠colossus.com/subscribe⁠. ----- ⁠Ramp’s⁠ mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Trusted by thousands of businesses, ⁠Vanta⁠ continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit⁠⁠ ⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:02:43) Episode Intro: Daniel Schwartz & Alex Behring (00:04:03) The “One Investment Per Fund” Model (00:08:22) Great Businesses Own the Relationship With Their Customers (00:11:23) The Unique Structure of 3G Capital (00:13:36) How a Transaction Takes Shape (00:17:04) Why Hunter Douglas Was Appealing (00:21:34) The Advantages of Staying Small (00:23:58) Alex’s Railroad Story (00:26:36) Ownership is Key (00:30:26) Centralize the What, Decentralize the How (00:31:55) The “Burger King is Run by Children” Story (00:34:21) Negotiating with Tim Hortons (00:40:39) Never Compromise on Quality (00:42:01) Talent Over Tenure (00:50:26) 3G’s Operating System (00:57:14) When a Brand is Bigger than the Business (01:00:17) Why Burger King Was Undervalued (01:03:15) The Beauty of the Franchise Model (01:06:24) Kraft Heinz: A Case Study in Concentration Risk (01:09:07) Skechers: Great Product Meets Great Distribution (01:16:07) Finding Forever Businesses (01:17:52) Zero-Based Budgeting & When It Works (01:21:10) The Current State of Capital Markets (01:25:23) Misconceptions About 3G (01:32:01) The Power of Patience (01:33:39) The Kindest Thing

My guest today is Ben Horowitz, the co-founder of Andreessen Horowitz. Since its founding in 2009, a16z has grown into one of the most influential firms in venture capital, reshaping how technology companies are funded and how power and ideas move through Silicon Valley and around the world. This conversation focuses on sides of Ben’s story you don’t often hear. Ben reflects on the people who shaped him, including Nas, Andy Grove, and his father, and shares why he chose to personally fund new technology for the Las Vegas Police Department. We also talk about how he thinks about a16z’s responsibility in shaping the trajectory of America, the scale of his ambition for the firm, and what he sees as the biggest risk facing the country. Please enjoy this great and unique conversation with Ben Horowitz. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Ramp’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vanta. Trusted by thousands of businesses, Vanta continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit vanta.com/invest.  ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- This episode is brought to you by ⁠WorkOS⁠. WorkOS is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit ⁠WorkOS.com⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:02:43) Episode Intro: Ben Horowitz (00:03:27) The State of America Right Now (00:06:06) How Policy Could Destroy America (00:08:29) AI Changes the Laws of Company Building and Investing (00:11:40) Why AI Researchers are Paid $100M (00:13:16) Thoughts on Growing Inequality (00:18:07) Societal Challenges Due to AI (00:19:56) Ben’s Scope of Ambition for the Next 20 Years (00:22:48) Andy Grove’s Influence on Ben (00:27:44) Starting Andreessen Horowitz (00:32:53) Early Mistakes (00:36:17) What Capital Markets Are Missing (00:37:44) Why VC and Not PE (00:40:03) Tradeoffs with Scale (00:41:10) A Culture is Not a Set of Ideas, it’s a Set of Actions (00:43:05) Lessons from His Father (00:45:03) Exciting Use Cases of AI (00:46:46) Ben’s Friendship with Nas (00:50:05) Funding New Technology for the Las Vegas Police Department (00:54:07) The Kindest Thing

My guest today is ⁠Gokul Rajaram⁠, Founding Partner at Marathon Management. Gokul is one of the most prolific product builders and investors of the last twenty years. He has built the core ad and product businesses at Google, Facebook, Square, and DoorDash, working at each company during its most formative scaling periods. Alongside his operating career, Gokul has invested in more than 700 companies, giving him an unusually broad view into how products are built and scaled. This conversation is about how product building is changing with AI. We discuss the one thing Gokul believes is truly future-proof in AI, why companies like Zendesk and Slack are more exposed than Salesforce or NetSuite, and the only sources of defensibility.  We also talk about everything Gokul has learned from helping build the most important ads businesses, including the only three ways an ad business can make money, how those constraints shape product decisions, and what consumer behavior change threatens every major platform. Gokul shares lessons from working closely with Larry and Sergey, Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, and Tony Xu. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.  ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Ramp’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Vanta⁠. Trusted by thousands of businesses, Vanta continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit ⁠vanta.com/invest⁠.  -----⁠ Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠ ⁠WorkOS⁠⁠. WorkOS is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit⁠ ⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like The Best (00:00:53) Meet Gokul Rajaram (00:02:05) How Product Development is Changing with AI (00:07:32) Philosophy of Product Management (00:10:19) What is Future-Proof in AI Era (00:11:25) Building AI Applications Today (00:15:03) Systems of Record vs Agent Companies (00:16:58) Which Legacy Software Companies Are Most Exposed (00:22:15) Stickiness in the AI Era (00:24:10) Learning from Larry Page and Sergey Brin (00:28:15) Learning from Mark Zuckerberg (00:31:31) Learning from Jack Dorsey (00:35:40) The Art of Great Product Design (00:36:49) Weekly CEO Communication (00:40:27) Three Ways to Succeed in Advertising (00:44:27) What Should Scare Major Ad Platforms (00:48:24) North Star Metrics (00:50:09) Self-Serve Products (00:54:50) Careers in the AI Era (00:59:03) Stay Long Enough to Have Impact (01:00:10) Founder Authenticity and Superpowers (01:02:21) Navigating the Idea Maze (01:03:42) Role of Boards (01:06:31) Excellence in Customer Acquisition  (01:09:11) The Kindest Thing

This week is a special episode. Only David Senra could get me to be on the other side of the mic. Because I don’t plan on being interviewed often, I wanted to share this conversation, which I so enjoyed, with our audience. It went in a very different direction than I expected. We barely talk about investing or interviewing. Instead, we talk about finding an organizing principle for life, undiscovered talent, and the idea that “the reward for good work is more work.” We also discuss the principles that guide how I think about building Invest Like the Best, Colossus, and Positive Sum. This conversation was originally recorded and released on David Senra, and I wanted to share on the Invest Like The Best feed as well. Please go follow what he’s doing, there’s no one like David. Enjoy! For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ----- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠'s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Vanta is trusted by thousands of businesses, Vanta continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit vanta.com/invest.  ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit ⁠WorkOS.com⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like The Best (00:04:26) Intro (00:05:14) The Joy of Championing Undiscovered Talent (00:07:33) How One Tweet Changed David's Life (00:10:16) The Upanishads Passage That Shaped Patrick's Worldview (00:15:32) Growth Without Goals  (00:17:24) Why Media and Investing Are the Same Thing (00:33:05) The Search for True Understanding (00:35:36) The Daniel Ek Dinner That Launched David’s Podcast (00:39:02) Making Your Own Recipe From the Ingredients of Great Lives (00:43:46) The Privilege of a Lifetime Is Being Who You Are (00:52:06) Bruce Springsteen (00:57:23) Clean Fuel vs Dirty Fuel: The Source of Your Ambition (01:01:43) The Unfair Advantage of Podcasting (01:04:12) Relationships Run the World (01:11:10) The Origin Story of Invest Like the Best (01:12:45) Building Colossus: Why Start a Magazine in 2025 (01:18:42) People Are More Interested in People Than Anything Else (01:22:12) Hiring Through Output (01:26:23) Learn, Build, Share, Repeat (01:30:01) The Daisy Chain: How Reading Books Led to Everything (01:33:15) Red on the Color Wheel: Sam Hinkie's Observation (01:40:17) Finding Your Superpower and Becoming More Yourself (01:45:06) Repetition Doesn't Spoil the Prayer: Teaching as Leadership (01:48:11) Life's Work: A Lifelong Quest to Build Something for Others (01:52:00) The Ten Roles Game and What Matters Most (01:59:12) Husband, Father, Grandfather (02:01:52) The Kindest Thing

My guests today are Tom Digan and Greg Stewart. Tom is the co-founder of Ladder, and Greg is its CEO. Ladder was my first angel investment. What followed over the next seven years is one of the most unlikely and dramatic business stories I’ve been a part of. Today, Ladder is the number one grossing fitness app in the App Store, approaching $100M in ARR with more than 300,000 paying members. But the path from near death to dominance involved debt collectors, leadership changes, and a full reset during the pandemic. Tom and Greg built Ladder by being relentlessly empirical about their customers, ruthless about prioritization, raising money wherever they could, and doing whatever it took when most founders would have quit. We cover the messy early years when survival meant negotiating creditors, how they found PMF by reading thousands of app store reviews, and how they built a TikTok growth engine with no performance marketing experience. They share their long-term vision for becoming the category winner for health and fitness and the impact of AI and GLP-1s on their business. This is a conversation about how hard it really is to build something valuable, told by two people who lived through all of it. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ----- ⁠Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vanta is trusted by thousands of businesses and continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit vanta.com/invest.  ----- ⁠Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit ⁠WorkOS.com⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like The Best  (00:04:26) Episode Intro (00:05:45) Ladder: The #1 Fitness App (00:09:28) The Messy, Early Years (00:14:47) Sponsors (00:16:20) The Darkest Point (00:18:17) Why Greg Joined Ladder (00:19:45) The Turning Point: Ladder 2.0 (00:21:57) The Key to Negotiating with Creditors (00:23:16) Fundraising Challenges and Strategies (00:25:50) Developing Ladder Teams (00:31:31) Listen to Your Customers (00:32:57) Launching Nutrition (00:38:53) Sponsors (00:39:31) Don’t Listen to Investors on Product Feedback (00:40:18) The Cave Process (00:43:13) Crossing the Chasm (00:43:53) How to Crack TikTok (00:51:10) The Content Frontier (00:52:07) Controlled Bets at Scale (00:54:19) Why you should Build a B2C Company (00:57:37) The Impact of AI and GLP-1s (01:02:32) Sponsors (01:02:53) Staying Focused on the Core Product (01:05:00) Building the System of Record for Health and Fitness (01:09:45) What It’s Like Talking to Investors Now (01:12:32) The Kindest Thing

My guest today is Reed Hastings, the co-founder and former longtime CEO of Netflix. Netflix is an example of two ideas that everyone talks about, but are extremely hard to do in practice. The first is finding a simple idea and taking it extraordinarily seriously. Reed talks about how even the DVD business was nothing more than a stepping stone toward streaming, which they envisioned from the company’s inception in 1997. The second is talent density, and what it actually takes to set and sustain an exceptionally high bar over decades as a company grows.  We talk about how those ideas shaped Netflix’s culture and strategy, what Reed learned from mistakes like Qwikster, and why Netflix treated content like a venture portfolio. We also discuss Reed’s work today. He shares how he’s thinking about AI, what he’s learned from serving on the boards of Microsoft, Meta, Anthropic, and Bloomberg, and what excites him about Powder Mountain, the ski resort he acquired after Netflix. Please enjoy my conversation with Reed Hastings. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ----- ⁠Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠’s mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠ramp.com/invest⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. ----- Vanta is trusted by thousands of businesses and continuously monitors your security posture and streamlines audits so you can win enterprise deals and build customer trust without the traditional overhead. Visit vanta.com/invest.  -----⁠ Rogo⁠ is the AI platform for finance. They're building agents for Wall Street that are trained to understand how bankers and investors actually do work: from diligence and modeling, to turning analysis into deliverables. To learn more, visit rogo.ai/invest. ----- ⁠WorkOS⁠ is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. Visit ⁠WorkOS.com⁠ to transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- ⁠Ridgeline⁠ has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Visit⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ridgeline.ai⁠. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). Timestamps (00:00:00) Sponsors (00:03:33) Welcome to Invest Like The Best (00:04:29) Intro (00:05:43) Sponsors (00:07:16) The Concept of Talent Density (00:11:19) Evaluating Talent (00:13:47) Managing on the Edge of Chaos (00:14:51) Why Netflix Gave Large Severance Packages (00:16:37) The Keeper’s Test (00:17:07) The Qwikster Mistake (00:19:15) The Informed Captain (00:20:39) How to Come Up with Good Ideas (00:22:32) Transitioning to Streaming (00:23:05) Being on the Board of Facebook, Microsoft, Anthropic & Bloomberg (00:26:25) The Role of a Board Member (00:29:37) Sponsors (00:30:15) Why Netflix Had Open Compensation (00:32:04) Netflix’s Content Strategy (00:37:52) Competing with YouTube and Traditional TV (00:39:23) Creating Hit Content (00:40:02) Impact of AI on Netflix (00:41:24) Innovations in Show Formats (00:43:23) Sponsors (00:43:44) Netflix's Technology Backbone (00:45:29) Expanding into Gaming (00:46:06) Lessons from Failed Projects (00:47:30) Financial Strategy and Capital Allocation (00:50:27) Stepping Down as CEO (00:50:52) Powder Mountain (00:56:08) Focus on Education and AI (00:59:00) Risks and Benefits of AI (01:00:56) The Kindest Thing (01:02:56) Sponsors