[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Make Me Care About…Maternal Mortality

Description: …Today we’re revisiting the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.   Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises. Jen and Lucy discuss: The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Matrescence by Lucy Jones – Read here Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones – Read here Losing Eden by Lucy Jones – Read here Dana Raphael (American Anthropologist) – Learn more “The Birth of a Mother” by Alexandra Sacks (NYT article) – Read here 2017 NIH Study on Pregnancy and the Brain – Read here Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich – Read here Andrea O’Reilly (Motherhood scholar) – Learn more Guest’s Links: Lucy’s Website: lucyfjones.com Lucy’s X: @lucyjones Instagram: @lucyfjones Facebook: Lucy Jones Books Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle  was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today. In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel,  Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions. Some of the conversations they delve into include: Why are we like this? How do we figure out what we really want? How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck? Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know? Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women? Thought-provoking Quotes: “I'm just trying to remain a human in this political environment, in this place of deep fear where so much is at risk. And I think the way we do that is continuing to see each other as human and continuing to let our hearts break over what should break our hearts.” – Amanda Doyle “Having played on many different teams, I'm well suited to work well with others. I just have to be here and be myself. That is the way that I add value. I am not gonna add value in the way that Glennon and Amanda do. I know that. But that doesn't give me any lack of confidence because I know I bring something to the team.” – Abby Wambach “After 400 or so conversations, it was so wild that, whether we were talking to a person who's been a therapist for 40 years, or a person who's a poet, or a person who's an activist, there were just a handful of questions that all of these people are struggling with. The smartest people in the world are trying to figure out the same things that we are.” – Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Forward: A Memoir by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4ckZOFi WOLFPACK: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4cpazqg We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle - https://amzn.to/3EfeZ6r Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/ Amanda Doyle Stops Keeping Score And Stays In The Moment - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-60/amanda-doyle-stops-keeping-score-and-stays-in-the-moment/ Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Kate Bowler - https://katebowler.com/about/ Suzanne Stabile - https://suzannestabile.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://abbywambach.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/abbywambach/ Twitter - https://x.com/abbywambach Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/abbywambach/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCej3anJvC-rSMd63asN8cXg Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Twitter - https://x.com/amandafdoyle Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: The April 2025 JHBC selection, The Light Pirate, is a haunting, lyrical, and original story that takes place in the near future, set against the backdrop of climate-ravaged Florida, with parts of the state going underwater and being abandoned by those who used to call it home. The story follows Wanda—a luminous child born out of a devastating hurricane—as she navigates a rapidly changing world. With elements of literary fiction, speculative realism, and subtle magical undertones, The Light Pirate is a meditation on grief, transformation, resilience, and the relationship between humanity and the natural world. It’s both a warning and a whisper of hope—a reminder that even in the face of collapse, there is still beauty, connection, and light. In this discussion with The Light Pirate author, Lily Brooks-Dalton, she and Jen discuss: How the simple practice of journaling helped Lily evolve her craft and find her own unique voice as a writer The ways in which Lily weaves unexpected, real-life texture into her work by marrying her passions in other hobbies and subjects The evolving demands on a modern author And Lily talks about her next book project titled 'Ruins' that explores the fascinating field of archaeology Thought-provoking Quotes: “I always wanted to be a writer. And it was just a matter of figuring out that that was a goal worth working toward.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “I always had a journal. I was so much better at figuring out what I felt through writing it down, as opposed to even thinking or talking out loud. It was just like my medium.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “That moment of preparation really stuck with me for a long time. And I couldn't get it out of my head. I was just thinking about all the different ways that a human being could react to that kind of energy, that kind of dread and fear and excitement.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “This is the conundrum of living in places that aren’t for us, places  that aren't accommodating to us anymore in the way that maybe they used to be. It's so easy to be tucked into your safe home and be like, just move, just go somewhere else. But, I think you are able to put yourself in those shoes and realize these are people's homes. They invest their whole lives in these spaces. And it's no small thing to just move somewhere a little easier.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton “I didn’t become a writer to be seen. It's not my comfort zone, so it's been a little bit scary at times and also really exciting.” – Lily Brooks-Dalton Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Light Pirate: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/42dGxCn Motorcycles I've Loved: A Memoir by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4cEEavY Good Morning, Midnight: A Novel by Lily Brooks-Dalton - https://amzn.to/4jy3S7v The Midnight Sky on Netflix - https://www.netflix.com/title/80244645 Piranesi by Susanna Clarke - https://amzn.to/4jzVvZ6 Audition: A Novel by Katie Kitamura - https://amzn.to/42koxXa Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.lilybrooksdalton.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lilybrooksdalton Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: She’s become a leading voice in the culinary world and today stars as the lead host of the same cooking competition show that launched her career. Kristen Kish was eliminated from Bravo’s season 10 of Top Chef, only to make a triumphant return through a Last Chance Kitchen opportunity that cleared the way for her to beat out the remaining competition and win the season.  Since that 2013 victory, Kristen has been everywhere – launching a new restaurant, Arlo Grey, in Jen’s hometown of Austin (and another restaurant opening soon in New York), hosting some of our favorite food shows including Kitchens at the End of the World, Iron Chef, and now Top Chef (the student has become the teacher). She’s also flexing a new muscle as an author. In her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, Kristen shares her story of being born in South Korea and adopted into a loving white, midwestern American family and what it was like for her to navigate her identity in all of its racial, sexual and professional contexts. Ultimately, what defines Kristen’s story is how she learned to find her voice and use it and, while accidents may be unexpected, they don’t have to be at odds with our purpose.  Our conversation today covers:  Pivoting, embracing change, and building a life that is truthful and authentic How the road to success was so much more winding and complicated than it may have appeared from the outside Knowing internally that it’s time to make a change or take a new step forward How it’s the behind-the-scenes, off camera moments that nobody sees where the decisions and discoveries are made, where the unexpected meets the intentional, and where things get really interesting. Battling imposter syndrome and burnout and quieting the voice of doubt How life’s best opportunities often come from embracing the unexpected Thought-provoking Quotes: “I figured out that I don't need to be anything other than myself. I figured out I don’t need to replicate somebody else’s way of doing something. My voice matters.” – Kristen Kish “I think a lot of the nurture is in my personal life and a lot of the nature is in my professional life, because I can't tell you why I'm good at certain things. I didn't have to practice holding a knife. I didn't practice putting together flavors. It just came to me.” – Kristen Kish  “For a long time, I didn't know myself at all. I was too scared. I didn't want to know. I was scared of knowing where I came from because what if I found out something absolutely horrible? Sometimes you just don't want to know. And I've had to come to terms with getting to know all the really good things about myself that really have helped me move forward in life, but also really understanding the things that make me a challenge.” – Kristen Kish I wish I would have chosen Bravo over Twitter ten years ago. – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Top Chef - https://www.bravotv.com/top-chef Bravo! - https://www.bravotv.com/ Accidentally on Purpose by Kristen Kish - https://amzn.to/4iJQy04 Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker -  Arlo Grey restaurant - https://www.thelinehotel.com/austin/restaurants-bars/arlo-grey/ Stef Ferrari, food writer - https://www.theycallmeferrari.com/ferrari-here Charlotte Rose Coleman, fashion stylist - https://www.charlotterosecoleman.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thelinehotel.com/magazine/meet-atx-family-kristen-kish/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kristenlkish/ Twitter - https://x.com/kristenlkish?lang=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KristenLKish/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kristenlkish Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does. With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like: How do we live compassionately in a time of violence and despair? And what can we do with our private disappointments and the anger we feel in such an unjust world? What can we do? Non-violent resistance is our chief responsibility right now. Like John Lewis said, these times call for some “good trouble”. Join the marches, call and write our elected leaders, and mobilize strategically for upcoming elections. We have several democratic tools at our disposal. Where can we look for inspiration? Father Rohr talks to us about his latest project, The Tears of Things, which recounts the timeless wisdom of the Hebrew prophets and notes “If we can understand the prophets so poorly, if at all, no wonder we have not understood Jesus.”  What’s one thing we can do to live prophetically in these chaotic times? And Father Rohr tells us what is giving him hope today. You’ll find it contagious. Thought-provoking Quotes: You know that the book of Lamentations was included in the Bible and it’s very telling that it's not lamenting any single war or single death. It's about universal sadness, giving us permission for a universal lament for the tragic sense of life.” -  Fr. Richard Rohr “We have to dig deep for hope. There isn't a logical basis for it today. But I do find it in nature.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Tears put us in touch with the soul and that’s their great gift.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Trust the excluded ones. Trust the little people. Jesus told us that. They will be much closer to the inside of the gospel than anybody who's easily holding power or position. Look for the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. You won't as readily find that in billionaires as you will in the little people.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “You're ping ponging back and forth between rage and lament. And it's hard to find your center. And then the next day it's something different. It is a daily onslaught right now. It's so overwhelming.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4iaaBU0 Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4jrgkpy The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/44ruxhU The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3XUyPKP Live Yourself Into a New Way of Thinking: Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Enneagram Ones – The Reformers with Father Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/enneagram-ones-the-reformers-with-father-richard-rohr/ Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3Edg7Yi Center for Contemplation and Action - https://cac.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://cac.org/ Twitter - https://x.com/RichardRohrOFM Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Jeff Chu, an award-winning journalist, author, and "sort-of-kind-of farmer," joins Jen on the For the Love podcast to discuss his book, Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand. In the book, Jeff shares stories from his time at “The Farminary”, a twenty-one-acre working farm at Princeton’s Theological Seminary, where students explore life's biggest questions while cultivating the earth.  Jeff reflects on his own struggles with faith, identity, and the expectations placed upon him as a gay man raised in a conservative Christian environment. His journey reveals the challenges of cultivating, not just plants, but also a spiritual life that is authentic, evolving, and inclusive​.  In this conversation, Jeff, Jen and Amy discuss:  What Jeff learned at the “Farminary” about creating “good soil,” drawing lessons from the rhythms of growth, decay, and regeneration that define life on the land Finding moments of grace and healing. Challenging traditional interpretations of the biblical Parable of the Sower Exploring faith, not as something static, but as something that evolves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “God's love is that lavish and it's there for you. And it doesn't come with the conditions that you might have. It doesn't require you to do anything more than you've already done. It just requires you to be. God's love is big enough to hold that, and your mess, and your beauty, and your frailty, and anything else you might bring to God.” – Jeff Chu “I see folks trying to figure out how to create belonging, not just for themselves, but also for others, and being willing to ask those tough questions out loud, and being brave enough to say, I don't know, but I wonder. Being bold enough to point out not just the ugly things, but also to name the beautiful and hopeful things. Those are all things that give me hope.” – Jeff Chu #JeffChu #GoodSoil #ForTheLovePodcast #SpiritualJourney Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Community First Village / Mobile Loaves and Fishes - https://mlf.org/community-first/ Genesis Gardens - https://mlf.org/genesis-gardens/ 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4kZZmjN Actually Believing God Loves You Changes Everything: Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/actually-believing-god-loves-you-changes-everything-jeff-chu/ Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4kXozLJ Wholehearted Faith by Rachel Held Evans and Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4iZlOrA Does Jesus Really Love Me?: A Gay Christian's Pilgrimage in Search of God in America by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/4bZH91N March: Book One by John Lewis - https://amzn.to/4c6xmXI Travel and Leisure magazine editor-at-large - https://www.travelandleisure.com/author/jeff-chu Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan - https://amzn.to/446LUo5 Padraig O'Tuama, poet - https://www.padraigotuama.com/ Kitchen Hymns by Padraig O’Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccPFdV Maggie Smith, poet - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ In The Shelter: Finding a Home in the World by Padraig O’Tuama - https://amzn.to/4ccNNBL Jeff Chu’s Good Soil Book Tour - https://byjeffchu.com/tour Guest’s Links: Website - https://byjeffchu.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/byjeffchu Twitter - https://x.com/jeffchu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/byjeffchu Substack - https://byjeffchu.com/contact#substack Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If we’re lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that’s filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges. Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move. In this episode, we discuss: The art of letting go and beginning again and making the most of the time between an ending and a new beginning How growing up in a middle-class Catholic family influenced Melinda’s values and worldview What it looks like to loosen the bonds of perfectionism and embrace uncertainty in times of change The new projects, ideas and hopes Melinda has for the future Thought-provoking Quotes: “Surround yourself with great people who are all charging toward the same mission.” – Melinda French Gates “There was something about the rollback of women's rights in the United States that I just never thought we would see in our lifetime. To see that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than I have, just shouldn't be. I felt called to try and do something about that.” – Melinda French Gates “When you lift women up, what I know from all over the world is, they lift families up and they lift societies up. And so they should be able to step into their full power, but there are still barriers in society that hold us back.” – Melinda French Gates “Women don’t tell each other enough that we’re proud of them so it’s good to hear it, no matter who you are.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Melinda Gates: The Power of Lifting Up Women - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-18/melinda-gates-the-power-of-lifting-up-women/ Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM Adele - Easy On Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The Gates Foundation “Make Me Care About… with Jen Hatmaker” podcast - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FBDoTV The Moment of Lift: How Empowering Women Changes the World by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FIW98c Gates Foundation - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Pivotal Ventures - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the summer of 2020, as Jen was beginning to process the loss of her 26-year marriage, there was one person walking her own similar but different journey, and understood many of the feelings of anger, grief, shame, and loss that Jen was just beginning to feel. Someone who knew how that disappointment felt. Jessica N. Tuner, founder of the popular lifestyle blog The Mom Creative, was a few months ahead of Jen in processing the loss of her 16-year marriage to her husband and father of her three children. Today, Jessica shared with Jen and Amy what the road to recovery has looked like for her, including grieving the end of the life she thought she would have forever, the change of her identity, navigating  the messy false-starts, and clawing her way back from what felt like “the floor of hell”. Jessica compiled those hard-fought lessons into a book she’s hoping will be a manifesto of hope to others, called I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love. *** Thought-provoking Quotes: Nothing about what I thought my life was going to be, is my life now. Now I feel like I walk around in the world and I feel grief and loss and disappointment and dismay from everybody. It’s amazing how my eyes have opened. It was a big awakening to the loss people are living with everyday.–Jessica N. Turner When we made the decision to divorce, I felt like I was sitting on the floor of hell, everything was dust, everything was different.–Jessica N. Turner No matter how devastating the loss, the life you can still rebuild is astonishing. – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Say Anything film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098258/ Sixteen Candles film (1984) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088128/ Cameron Crowe - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001081/ John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/ James Spader - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000652/ Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/ I Go Crazy by Flesh for Lulu - https://open.spotify.com/track/2o1AevEuv39qZAVy6k2pmn The Breakfast Club film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088847/ Weird Science film (1985) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090305 Ferris Bueller’s Day Off film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091042/ Planes, Trains and Automobiles film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093748/ Uncle Buck film (1989) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098554 Pretty in Pink film (1986) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091790 Beethoven film (1992) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103786 I Thought It Would Be Better Than This: Rise From Disappointment, Regain Control, and Rebuild a Life You Love by Jessica Turner - https://amzn.to/40yC1fF Outlander - https://www.starz.com/us/en/series/outlander/21796 Onsite - https://experienceonsite.com/ ONSITE COURSE [BOOK ORDER BONUS]: What now? Practical steps to navigate disappointment and learn to dream again - https://bit.ly/3DTV4d4 Jen’s Maine MeCamp Bar Harbor Travel Guide - https://jenhatmaker.com/bar-harbor/ Going - https://www.going.com/ Guest’s Links: Jessica’s website - https://jessicanturner.com/ Jessica’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jessicanturner/ Jessica’s Twitter - https://x.com/jessicanturner Jessica’s TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@jessicanturner Jessica’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheMomCreative/ Jessica’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/TheMomCreative Jessica’s Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/JessicaNTurner/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Maddie Corman is a seasoned American actress and playwright that you’ve seen in classic films including Some Kind of Wonderful, Maid in Manhattan, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, and our favorite television shows like Law and Order, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Most recently, she has put her creative hand to writing and performing in a very raw and vulnerable autobiographical one-woman play called Accidentally Brave, that delves into Maddie's personal journey following the arrest of her husband on child pornography charges in 2015. Today, Maddie shares her story of navigating the aftermath, focusing on themes of resilience, healing, and redefining normalcy when life takes an unforeseen turn. In this tender and transparent conversation, we discuss: How Maddie’s life turned upside down after a public personal crisis—and how she found her way back What led to her decision to write a raw, hilarious, deeply moving one-woman show called Accidentally Brave (now a movie on MAX!) What she imagined midlife would look like when she was younger versus what it looks like from where she sits today What it’s like to walk (or sometimes crawl) through shame and loss—and come out with more freedom, more truth, more YOU Also, how motherhood shifts our perspective in crisis What practices or people help us stay grounded in the hard moments – Maddie shares some really great resources! Why midlife is actually the best time to tell your story and start again Thought-provoking Quotes: “After a really big trauma that I thought was going to destroy my children, it turns out, they are thriving, and funny, and sensitive, and smart, and caring, and annoying, and they love me, and I drive them crazy, I’m sure. I share that because I feel like that was what saved my life was somebody who had been through something similar saying my kids are going to be okay.” – Maddie Corman “When you lose your mother, people bring a meatloaf over. But when your husband's arrested and you say ‘I think he's a sex addict and a porn addict,’ there's no meal train that's coming for that.” – Maddie Corman “I had lived 47 years when this happened and I had never met another person who had gone through anything like this. P.S. It turns out I had. They just didn't share about it.” – Maddie Corman “You inch your way back to the sunshine and it's so slow. And at the beginning you just think, everything's ruined; I'll just never be happy again so let me cobble together some sad life that just gets me to the finish line. But the truth is, it's stunning how much we can recover.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Some Kind of Wonderful film (1987) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094006/ John Hughes - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000455/?ref_=fn_all_nme_1 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/ Elizabeth Gilbert - https://www.elizabethgilbert.com/ Accidentally Brave Play - https://www.maddiecorman.com/accidentally-brave Accidentally Brave on MAX  - https://play.max.com/movie/b19ce99f-93c8-4150-ba0d-139e12048efe Partner Betray Counseling - https://www.maddiecorman.com/partner-betrayal-counseling Find a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) Therapist - https://iitap.com/page/TherapistDirectory Find a 12-Step Program - https://www.aa.org/find-aa  SANON International - https://sanon.org/ AL-ANON Family Groups - https://al-anon.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.maddiecorman.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmaddiecorman/ Twitter - https://x.com/maddiecorman Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: This month’s JHBC selection, The Berry Pickers, by Nova Scotian author Amanda Peters has found a particularly receptive audience within book club communities, including the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, for exploring universal human emotions and experiences, and for  examining unique cultural perspectives.  By masterfully blending her father's compelling stories as a Maine berry picker with her own extensive career in Indigenous governance, The Berry Pickers delves into a unique and original plot surrounding a Mi’kmaw family that grapples with the corrosive effects of guilt and shame, and the possibility of redemption. Peters reveals how the debut novel initially took shape as a short story, but as the beautifully-flawed characters and tendrilled themes began to unfold, the narrative organically expanded into the full-fledged novel that it is now, which has been translated into an impressive 22 languages and has been awarded the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction.  Thought-provoking Quotes: I couldn't have written this story when I was 21 because I didn’t have all of the life experience that I have now. – Amanda Peters Fiction readers are just better people because literature is about the human condition; it helps us develop empathy.  – Amanda Peters I love the writing process. I love creating a story. I love that high you get when you get it just right, when a sentence does exactly what I want it to do. – Amanda Peters Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Berry Pickers: A Novel by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hAYfUM Waiting for the Long Night Moon: Stories by Amanda Peters - https://amzn.to/4hGNTTw John Steinbeck books - https://amzn.to/4c1B1pJ John Steinbeck Center - https://steinbeck.org/ Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Fiction - https://www.ala.org/carnegie-medals/2024-winners Pearly Everlasting: A Novel by Tammy Armstrong - https://amzn.to/420or5r All the Young Men by Ruth Coker Burks - https://amzn.to/420oT3D What Strange Paradise: A novel by Omar El Akkad - https://amzn.to/4kXs8l6 Guest’s Links: Website - https://amandapetersauthor.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/amandapetersauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/amandapetersaut?lang=en Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices