Curious Business: The B2B Growth Podcast

Late payment costs the UK economy almost £11 billion a year. By the government’s own data, 38 businesses close every day because of it, and business owners hit by late payment spend an average of 86 hours a year chasing it. Yet almost nobody charges the late-payment interest they're entitled to. But it's just how it is, right? Emma Jones CBE has sat on both sides of the invoice. She founded and sold Enterprise Nation, and since June 2025 she has been the UK’s Small Business Commissioner. The Commercial Payments Bill is moving through Parliament, and when it becomes law (expected by the end of 2027), her office will have the power to adjudicate, investigate repeat offenders, fine them, and go public. She also admits that, as a founder, she never charged interest on a late invoice either. Listen to this episode if you want to find out: Why you can push back on 90-day payment terms today, before the law has even passed What “automatic” interest at 8% above base rate changes, and how it takes away an awkward conversation Why most late payments aren’t down to bad intentions What the Fair Payment Code’s Gold tier tells you about a client before you sign Why investors and government buyers are starting to care how quickly businesses pay suppliers Why 60 days might not be the UK’s final answer The catch-22 that still keeps small firms out of public sector contracts a decade on Links and references Office of the Small Business Commissioner: https://www.smallbusinesscommissioner.gov.uk/ Fair Payment Code and signatory directory: https://www.smallbusinesscommissioner.gov.uk/fpc/ Commercial Payments Bill (UK Parliament): https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/4128 Source for the £11bn, 38-a-day and 86-hour figures (July 2025): https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/688a089a6478525675738ff9/late_payments_research_impact_on_uk_economy.pdf Emma Jones CBE, Small Business Commissioner (GOV.UK): https://www.gov.uk/government/people/emma-jones Connect with Emma on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-jones-8063536/ Chapters 00:37 — Owed money? What you can do today 01:30 — Why you can push back on 90-day terms right now 02:34 — AI chasers and a casework team most people don’t know exists 03:53 — A stick with teeth: what the Commercial Payments Bill changes 06:46 — Fines, investigations and going public 07:55 — The interest nobody charges (including the Commissioner) 10:26 — Rewiring the supplier platforms 12:30 — It’s not who you think: why invoices really go unpaid 14:36 — Why investors should check how you pay 17:17 — Spotting a slow payer before you sign 18:52 — £11bn, 38 a day, 86 hours 21:49 — From founder to public servant 25:24 — The world is watching, and the EU blinked 28:18 — What’s next: admin, one business ID and procurement 33:40 — SME safaris: getting civil servants out of Whitehall 35:29 — Why “too much regulation” headlines don’t help 36:32 — The 90-day contract that became 60 38:48 — Where to find help -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

Every business wants change, and most probably need it. Technology, competition and the pressure to grow all demand it. But depending on where you sit, change can feel risky, frustrating or downright frightening. It can seem that good business strategy means planning out a new normal, but when people feel change done to them rather than with them, it tends not to work. How can organisations create change without triggering an 'allergic reaction'? Amale Ghalbouni has spent nearly two decades helping organisations change. She started as a strategy consultant handing down answers, then moved into digital transformation and agencies, working in sectors as different as horse racing, financial services, retail and automotive. Her book, Experimental, argues that the process is rarely the problem. People are: their quirks and traits, their needs and anxieties, and the “allergic reaction” most of us have to being told to do things differently. She’s candid about when it hasn’t worked, including her own badly handled restructure and a client sponsor who wouldn’t take no for an answer. She’s also clear that the patterns aren’t unique: “You’re not that special,” she says, kindly. Her book is built on five Cs, the conditions she believes teams need to change well: connection, clarity, curiosity, courage and celebration. On a show called Curious Business, it’s probably no surprise which one stood out for me. Listen to this episode to find out… What the “Big Freeze” is, and why long, private planning creates the conditions that stop change What a SharePoint site, A3 paper and a magnifying glass reveal about what leaders don’t get to see Why siloed teams are more likely to have a trust problem than a process problem Why someone who leads change for a living isn’t a fan of big changes How curiosity can turn something that didn’t work into something worth learning from Links More about Amale and her work: https://www.amale.co/ Connect with Amale on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amaleghalbouni/ Buy Amale's book, Experimental:  https://link.amazon/B04ShZ7GU (affiliate link) Other episodes on related topics #27: Matt Ballantine on randomness and how organisations adapt: https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/matt-ballantine-random-the-book/ Chapters 00:00 — Intro 00:53 — Designing change at people, not with them 02:19 — The Big Freeze: when silence breeds fear 06:41 — “You’re not that special” 08:19 — Months and months of strategy that never works 09:15 — Strong leaders and saying “I don’t know” 10:59 — The A3 sheet, the handbag and the magnifying glass 14:04 — Silos are a trust problem 15:17 — Innovation isn’t invention 18:15 — Why Amale doesn’t believe in big changes 19:59 — Nobody measures corporate anxiety 22:54 — When the change consultant gets restructured 24:40 — “Adopt AI. What is that? I have questions.” 27:11 — Clarity: direction, priorities, guardrails 28:01 — Allies, and when to walk away 32:42 — “Can't you just work around it?” 33:44 — Damn them pesky humans 34:55 — Don’t mention the F word 37:33 — Be the one who does it first   -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

AI promises to do an ever-increasing and diversifying range of jobs for us. But MIT Sloan behavioural science professor Eric So says there’s a trade-off. Are people using AI to help them think, or instead of thinking? And, if so, what does that mean for the brain? Eric's new book, The Collision: What AI Does to Us, isn't an anti-AI polemic. Instead, it explores the trade-off we might be making when we outsource to AI. Steve Jobs called the computer “a bicycle for the mind” – something that helps us to extend our range. Eric calls AI “a motorcycle for the mind” because, rather than elevating our thinking, it might send us racing headlong into losing our most valuable capabilities. With vivid anecdotes and research Eric unpacks how dependence forms. He exposes the quieter dangers: sycophantic models that mirror our biases, echo chambers that harden disagreement, and an economic pressure he calls AI gravity that makes short-term advantage irresistible and long-term competence precarious. Listen to this episode to find out: Why human cognitive scores have been falling since before most of us were born – and what that has to do with AI The behaviour that Eric observed that led him to writing the book and why it’s sometimes like taking a forklift to the gym Is there an AI arms race: people use AI not because it helps, but because they suspect rivals might be What a tragic real-world fire taught firefighters about trusting their tech too much Why the people who benefit most from AI at work might not be who you'd expect What happens when two people in an argument each go and consult their own AI Links Eric’s book ‘The Collision: What AI Does to Us’ (W W Norton & Co) https://uk.bookshop.org/a/15792/9781324124627 (affiliate link) Connect with Eric at https://ericso.pro or https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-so-87531768/ David Autor (MIT)’s research on how AI's benefits scale with a worker's prior experience: https://economics.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2025-06/Autor-Thompson-Expertise-22050620.pdf   Chapters 0:01:04 — Why cognitive scores have fallen since 1975 0:06:51 — Why Eric wrote The Collision 0:10:50 — The cognitive ladder and abundant intelligence 0:17:04 — De-Skilling Me Softly: the warning signs 0:20:29 — The firefighters who trusted the camera too much 0:25:53 — Short-termism, lawsuits, and autopilot pilots 0:32:55 — Sycophancy, echo chambers and AI companions 0:35:54 — Good or bad? The motorcycle for the mind 0:42:25 — Guardrails, policy, and the AI arms race 0:48:20 — Optimism, and where to find the book -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

What if the businesses that survive a crisis aren't the ones with the best plans but the ones who've already lived through the toughest days they could face? In this episode, Nick Drage tells me about business wargaming - rehearsal, role-play and the surprisingly serious business of play. A toolbox borrowed from military history and modern games that create structured experiments. Teams step into scenarios, play out mergers from the target's point of view, or simulate cyberattacks to see how they might make decisions on the fly. Listen to hear how the boardroom becomes a battlefield: leaders wrestle with the instinct to ‘pull the plug’ during an attack, internal teams are asked to play the hacker, and simulations demonstrate that real life rarely behaves like a textbook drill. Nick seeks to provoke hard conversations that prepare us to be better in the moment. From cyber red-team work to the simple, humane lesson of having a will, he explains why being prepared isn’t negative or morbid; it’s caring for the future. Listen to this episode if you want to find out: Why this kind of play is serious What a preparing for cybersecurity is like a fire drill - but the fire fights back Why the most useful thing leaders can do with an acquisition target is pretend to be them How making it "safe-to-fail" lets people make catastrophic mistakes on purpose, before it matters Why VCs almost never stress-test founders the way a good war game would — but they should What making a will has to do with surviving a cyberattack Links: Nick Drage / Path Dependence: https://www.pathdependence.co.uk/about/ The Handbook of Cyber War Games by John Curry & Nick Drage https://amzn.to/4yYi0yS (Affiliate Link) Random: How to Thrive in an Unpredictable World by Matt Ballentine & Nick Drage https://securityblendbooks.com/products/random UK Resilience Academy white paper, "Wargaming in a Resilience Context" https://ukresilienceacademy.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/UKRA-Wargaming-Insight-Paper.pdf Stone Paper Scissors: https://www.stonepaperscissors.co.uk/ Chapters: 0:00:49 — What is a business war game (and why the name is wrong) 0:04:53 — The master question: how a session actually gets built 0:09:15 — The fire drill where the fire fights back 0:10:45 — Giving your own staff permission to be evil 0:12:08 — The pen-test that made him unpopular in the office 0:13:11 — What separates a real war game from a strategy away-day 0:17:06 — Playing the enemy: what happens when leaders role-play a takeover 0:19:32 — Designing for disagreement, on purpose 0:21:06 — What his father's death taught him about planning and preparation 0:25:21 — Should VCs war-game founders before they invest? 0:28:45 — How to try this yourself, on a small scale -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

Are you finding it harder and harder to cut through the marketing noise? More channels. More content. More options. How can businesses stand out and connect with people who need their help? What’s certain is that it’s no time to be timid when it comes to brand strategy. Tara Cloak is Strategy Director at HB, a 25-year-old independent B2B marketing and creative agency working with clients including Microsoft, CBRE and Grant Thornton. She came to brand strategy through design, driven by a conviction that creative work without strategic intent doesn't have meaning. When a former marketing director colleague told her that design was just "colouring in", she set out to combine the magic and logic in everything she does. In this conversation, Tara draws on HB's own recent rebrand - trying to escape the pigeonhole of their own success. She argues that the most important brand work happens long before and long after the guidelines are handed over. If you're a leader, marketer or entrepreneur rethinking your brand strategy and trying to stand out, this episode is for you. Listen to this episode to learn: Why "I need a new website" is almost never the real problem What Veuve Clicquot reveals about the most dangerous decision in any rebrand Why a ‘big reveal’ is usually the wrong approach to internal alignment Brand results may take years to show up in tracking data, so what are the early signals to look for? The one question to ask at your next board meeting that tells you whether your brand is in good health Links: HB: https://uk-hb.com/ Connect with Tara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taracloak/ Chapters: 0:00:59 - From ‘colouring in’ to brand strategy 0:07:07 - The Driving Idea: what guidelines can't do 0:09:01 - When your people are your brand - and why that's a risk 0:12:08 - Logic and magic: what the research process actually looks like 0:13:52 - Why you should talk to your client's clients 0:18:22 - Why clients rebrand - and whether they should 0:21:55 - Familiarity breeds contempt 0:23:47 - The hidden work: change management 0:26:14 - Limit the ta-da moments 0:29:03 - AI and the end of production value 0:31:37 - What makes a rebrand meaningful 0:32:08 - Rebranding the rebranders: did it work? 0:33:17 - The metric Tara actually trusts 0:35:36 - Brands live in brains 0:36:31 - The boardroom test -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

Is what you're building actually connected to who you are? And would you know if it wasn't? Nish Sharma knew. He had the banking career, the best car, the best house, four holidays a year - and a question he couldn't shake: what am I actually doing?  The answer arrived at his grandmother's funeral. In the grief that followed, he found a 100-year-old family story nobody had ever finished: a bootlegger great-grandfather who started an alcohol enterprise with a Scottish army officer in 1940. Nish decided to finish it — in Edinburgh, with a Scottish gin and rum that carries both worlds in, and on, the bottle. What followed was anything but straightforward. Near-bankruptcy. A wall of silence from UK retailers despite offering to pay for the shelf space himself. He survived a heart attack and put it in an email to a buyer who kept saying no. He chased one contract for five years and felt flat when it finally landed. The private jet he always dreamed of? There's a model one on his desk. Now he drives a van. Listen to this episode to find out: What he actually wrote in an email to a buyer who'd repeatedly rejected him How a bootlegger, a Scottish army officer, Indian passport holograms and the Gaelic word for tea ended up encoded in his bottles Why angel investors who demand revenue proof before investing have got it backwards Why his philosophy is "it has not worked, it is working just now" and what it means if you're building for the long term What shaking hands with seven or eight billionaires taught him about wealth, success and what you actually need Connect with Nish: Rutland Square: https://www.rutlandsquarespirits.com/ On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nishantsharma08/ Chapters: 00:55 — The business, the products, the team 02:25 — "Who am I?" Assam, Punjab, Edinburgh 04:59 — Banking: paid the bills, didn't serve a purpose 07:13 — Four businesses that failed before this one 08:44 — "It has not worked, it is working now" 10:43 — What a decade in banking actually gave him 14:15 — The global palate argument 16:41 — The shelf space offer retailers turned down 18:08 — The funeral and the 100-year legacy 19:28 — "Stories live forever. Products don't." 20:03 — The bottle: passports, tartan, 1940 and 2020 23:13 — Near-bankruptcy and the angel paradox 25:14 — Why Scotch whisky is a generational business 26:36 — How tech broke investor psychology 27:07 — The bigger plan 30:57 — "Elon Musk is going to Mars. I'm just building on Earth." 31:31 — The van, the model jet, the payroll 34:53 — The one thing he'd do differently -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

What exactly is an entrepreneur in residence, and why would one of the UK’s largest food distributors deliberately plant a founder inside its business? What experience do you need, what is the host looking to achieve, and what do you actually do day-to-day? In this episode of Curious Business, Stephen Morris sits down with Andrew Allen, a founder who built, bootstrapped and burned out through two food startups, and now bridges the gap between founder insights and enterprise strategy. Discover how a single advocate inside a large distributor joins dots, shapes go-to-market decisions, and reveals what actually works in B2B relationships when you're embedded in the system. Whether you’re a founder trying to find growth, a leader pondering how to keep your organisation curious and creative, or simply fascinated by how big food can be a force for change, this episode explores how entrepreneurial thinking can influence the levers of scale. Listen to this episode to find out: Why getting your margin structure right on day one guarantees your product never sells What "low barriers and high hurdles" really costs a founder  What an entrepreneur in residence actually does all day Why "what's in it for me?" is a stupid question in a startup but a completely valid one inside a corporate The one-seat-one-vote system that lets a risk-averse business place more bets on new products and suppliers  The overlooked kind of waste that Andrew says is bleeding food startups dry — and the two-hours-a-week fix Links: Andrew Allen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmichaelallen/ Bidfood's Open Doors accelerator: https://www.bidfood.co.uk/about-us/open-doors/   Related episode: Getting a Business Through the Messy Middle with Jane Hales: https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/co-founder-conflicts-jane-hales/ Chapters: 02:20 — First meal to last meal: the channel nobody thinks about 03:26 — "Start from stupid" (and why you need to) 04:39 — Am I done founding? The honest answer 06:20 — The margin paradox that kills good products 07:00 — Snuffling Pig, Biffs, and low barriers / high hurdles 08:21 — The Selfridges trap 12:08 — What an entrepreneur in residence actually does 17:47 — The supplement that almost died on the shelf 20:35 — Why the big players man-marking the shelf isn't winning 23:45 — The corporate question startups never ask 28:49 — One seat, one vote: how to bet 50:50 on purpose 30:05 — Reframing a failed launch as validated feedback 31:27 — Bold Bean, and the power of joining the dots 37:21 — The real waste in food isn't food waste 39:51 — Two hours a week that would change the game 40:49 — Should every company have one of me? -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

Two-thirds of co-founded businesses will lose a founder at some point. Sometimes it's dramatic, maybe even existential - businesses sold amid conflict go for circa 40% less. However, the personal toll - the sleepless nights, the stress - rarely gets mentioned because of the NDAs... Jane Hales is trying to stop it getting to that point. After stepping out of a three-founder business herself, Jane now works with founding teams in what she calls the "messy middle" — the point where the original excitement has faded, something feels off, and nobody's quite sure why. You might call it marriage guidance counselling for co-founders. The more she explains it, the more obvious it becomes that this is a gap nobody else is filling. In this conversation, Jane makes the case that most co-founder conflict isn't a strategy problem. It's an emotional problem — and most of us make it worse by trying to treat it with business tools. Listen to this episode to find out: What the Partner Hype Cycle is, and why the "trough of disillusionment" is normal — not a sign things have gone wrong Why 50/50 equity feels fair, but can become a structural time bomb  Which three legal documents every founding team should have — and what the crucial fourth one is Why VCs treat a co-founder departure as a red flag, and what it does to your valuation What a "conflict entrepreneur" is — and why you should be wary of them How to tell the difference between good and bad conflict Why the most important meeting in your co-founder calendar has nothing to do with the business Chapters: 1:44 — Marriage guidance for co-founders and the Partner Hype Cycle 4:42 — The symptoms: unmet needs, poor communication, somatic signs 6:30 — The business prenup: worst-case questions and the 50/50 trap 9:32 — Three legal documents and the fourth emotional contract 11:20 — When friendships aren't enough: the funeral story 12:49 — Good conflict vs. bad conflict: trust, dissent and psychological safety 14:31 — Jane's own story: "I tried to solve an emotional problem with business tools" 17:26 — Beware conflict entrepreneurs 22:36 — Early warning signs and the checklist 27:18 — War stories: the £7m bankruptcy and the dropped trousers 29:42 — What to put in place: the prenup questions and the alignment rhythm Get in touch with Jane: Website: https://janehales.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-hales/ Grab Jane's co-founder conflict early-warning checklist: https://janehales.com/executive-alignment-gap-checklist-form/ Join the waitlist for Jane's book (working title) 'From Dream Team to Divorce?': https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScH972r9KhOB6UUGV2Bd6sxM9iHI-uFbbyln1Gw7h3kWoZ16w/viewform   -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

Work is fragmenting - but are B2B leaders ready? Matthew Knight has spent a decade studying lean teams and project-based freelance workforces. In this episode, we explore the real gaps between theory and practice: the hidden skills, processes, and mindset shifts companies overlook. If your business is going lean, you need to hear this. Matthew Knight has spent the last decade studying exactly that question. He's an independent strategist, founder of the Independency Company, and through his research organisation Leapers he's worked with over 250,000 people navigating life outside permanent employment. He knows this world from the inside - and he has a few things to say about how most organisations are getting it wrong. Matthew tells a human story: why people step into self-employment for control, flexibility and purpose, but how the reality often brings isolation, financial stress and a brutal learning curve. He shares how a Slack channel that became a community, and then Leapers research that has reached hundreds of thousands of freelancers. He argues the smartest companies are those that design for relationship, not just transaction - and that this design yields commercial as well as moral returns. Listen to this episode to find out: Why the biggest barrier to effective freelance relationships isn't contracts or money - it's something most organisations already struggle with What "the Tinder-fication of talent" means, why it happened, and why it might be unwinding What "lean core plus extended network" looks like as a deliberate operating model rather than an emergency stopgap The difference between outcomes and outputs - and why it matters more when teams are assembled per project What's happens to mentoring when senior talent ages out of agencies and junior roles started disappearing References and links Matthew Knight on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkplaymake The Independency Company: https://the.independency.co/ Leapers annual research and resources for people working independently: https://www.leapers.co/ Related Curious Business episodes: #27: Matt Ballantine on randomness and how organisations adapt https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/matt-ballantine-random-the-book/ #24: Neil Mullarkey on improv as a frame for how people work together https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/neil-mullarkey-improv-your-business/ Chapter list 0:01:00 — From developer to independent strategist 0:03:08 — The trigger: one job, one Slack channel, one gap nobody was filling 0:06:15 — From community to research to advocacy 0:07:03 — Something like a union? Why one model can't solve it 0:08:10 — What stops agencies and freelancers working well together 0:10:41 — Why freelancers are better at navigating uncertainty 0:12:31 — Why people choose to freelance: control, flexibility, and necessity 0:15:09 — The lean core and the extended network 0:15:53 — Does the Chief Freelance Office already exist? 0:16:56 — The three Cs of contingent workforces 0:19:52 — From cost-minimisation to ROI: a new mindset 0:21:19 — Should freelancers push back on being told where to work? 0:22:13 — Outcomes vs. outputs: what freelancers can and can't control 0:24:17 — How the freelance market has changed in 10 years 0:25:06 — Tinder-fication of talent: platforms, commoditisation, and what next 0:26:03 — Accessibility, oversupply, and the changing freelancer demographic 0:27:23 — The Leapers survey: what the data actually shows 0:29:15 — Isolation, loneliness, and the knowledge gap 0:32:04 — A holistic approach: L&D, mentoring, mental health for everyone 0:32:48 — AI and the junior talent problem 0:33:38 — Are freelancers being used as mentors? What's actually happening 0:35:34 — "It has to be designed" — and why that's harder than it sounds 0:35:40 — The skills warning: 10, 12, 15 years until nobody has any 0:37:30 — Policy, the DCMS and the long game    -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH

How many of the companies or people you admire got where they are by following a process? And how many took advantage of a lucky break or serendipitous pivot? We almost never think about the influence of chance on business strategy  — the randomness in the path to every success. What if the biggest competitive advantage isn't better planning - it's embracing randomness? Looking for the serendipity in business? Matt Ballantine, sociologist and co-author of 'Random: How to Thrive in an Unpredictable World,' reveals why the business strategy playbooks overlook the chance encounters that actually shape breakthrough growth. Matt has spent thirty years helping organisations try to change. In this conversation, he explains why organisational barriers tend to have deeply entrenched roots, why best practice is almost always survivorship bias in disguise, why the most exciting sports tend to have randomness built into the rules, and why pattern-spotting is both an asset and a blind spot for us humans. Listen to this episode to learn: Why the laminated notices in a company toilet tell you so much about its values Why best practice is something you think you can install - and good practice is something you have to arrive at What German researchers found when they studied the coin toss in penalty shootouts  Why LLMs give you a different answer every time The first act of randomness leaders should embrace   Links Order Random the book: https://securityblendbooks.com/products/random Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattballantine/ Related episode: #24 with Neil Mullarkey: https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/neil-mullarkey-improv-your-business/ Related episode: #6 with Dan Klein: https://podcast.curiousbusiness.co.uk/e/dan-klein-gen-ai-curiosity/   Chapters 00:54 — Sociologist or technologist? Why the distinction matters 01:56 — Baudrillard, McLuhan and the blurring of reality 04:15 — Why change keeps failing 05:26 — What grows back when you only deal with the surface 07:31 — The toilet test: reading company values in laminated notices 11:46 — Why Matt isn't a fan of best practice 13:08 — How a book about Random-ness came about 14:28 — Cards as a facilitation tool 16:48 — Apophenia: the compulsion to find patterns where none exist 18:34 — Who is the book for? Why is the book for? 19:12 — The format: why it's not really a book 25:03 — How the book can be used 25:56 — The five meanings of "random" 27:56 — Three reasons randomness is useful 28:34 — Facebook, Friends Reunited and survivorship bias in tech 30:06 — Businesses ofter don't like uncertainty — but they should 31:48 — The ovoid spheroid and randomness in sport 33:39 — Does randomness fly in the face of AI? 35:54 — The Watford employment agency: October 1993 38:15 — The first act of randomness every leader should embrace    -- Thanks for listening. Curious Business is here to bring you insights, experiences and ideas from founders, leaders and experts to help you think differently about your business and its marketing. Listen to more episode via https://pod.link/1783648578. My name is Stephen Morris and I help you start a fire in your marketing and pipeline. Need to know more? Book a discovery call: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/discovery/ Or sign-up to 'The Prompt' my monthly newsletter: https://www.curiousbusiness.co.uk/signup/ If you'd like to talk about how podcasts can build reach, enhance authority and fuel your pipeline, visit www.curiousbusiness.co.uk. --  Shutterstock - Track 1246628 – Monetization ID TVH3URKVE2IP99AH