Business of Apps Podcast

This time, we're talking about the practical impact of AI on app store optimization - and why LLMs aren't about to pull app discovery out of the stores. LLMs are changing how people search the web. But app discovery has stayed inside the App Store and Google Play for 16 years, and the stores are now adding AI layers of their own. To cover all this, we've got Dave Bell, Co-Founder and CEO of Gummicube, about how AI is reshaping ASO on the App Store and Google Play. Dave explains why winning in-store search is what earns an app a place in Apple's and Google's AI recommendation layers, and why reviews, Custom Product Pages, and Android vitals now count as AI signals. He also covers the risk of "AI cannibalization" when competing apps use generic prompts to write their metadata, the store policies and copyright issues around AI-generated content, and why your website, social, and store listing need to tell the same story. If you work in app store optimization, app marketing, or app growth, this is a clear look at what AI actually changes in the stores - and what it doesn't. Today’s topics include: App discovery stays in the stores - web downloads remain in the single digits, and LLMs will take share from web search, not from the App Store Search feeds AI - the organic signals that power in-store search also fuel Siri, Spotlight, personalized collections, and Ask Play New AI ranking signals - ratings and reviews, Custom Product Pages linked to organic terms, and Android vitals all affect how AI positions your app AI cannibalization - generic LLM prompts produce identical listings, lower conversion, and risk store penalties under Apple and Google Play spam policies Content cohesion - aligning your website, social, and structured content with your store listing so LLMs find one consistent story Links and Resources: Dave Bell on LinkedIn Gummicube website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Dave Bell “LLMs are absolutely going to eat search.” "AI is great for research, but it's not great for creation." “You don't want to have a web page that communicates one thing, and a store listing that communicates another.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Today we're talking about influencer marketing - and about the point where creator content stops being a brand play and starts being a performance channel. Creator-led ads run four times better on click-through rate than the same brand's own ads. So the question is no longer whether to use influencers. It's how to scale them without losing the ROI. In this episode, we bring you a live panel hosted by Lucia Aguilar, CEO and Founder at TATAM Digital, featuring: Joanna Malecka, Partnership Director at Numan Esma Ebnu, Influencer Marketing at Flo Health Lia Darozhkina, Senior Influencer Marketing Manager at Trade Republic Stephanie Terziyski, Growth Influencer Marketing Manager at HelloFresh. The panel works through four trends. YouTube as the new TV - 13% of all US viewership and more ad revenue than Paramount, Disney, Universal, and Warner combined - and why long-form still converts for products that need explaining. Creator and partnership ads, where content boosted from the creator's own handle beats anything posted from a brand account. Regulation, with only 57% of UK paid posts tagged correctly, and how teams in health, Pharma, and banking build compliance into the brief instead of bolting it on at sign-off. And AI, from sourcing and brief writing through to forecasting campaign results, plus the case for human creators in a feed filling up with avatars. If you work in influencer marketing, user acquisition, or performance marketing, this is a practical look at where creator budgets are going in 2026 and what it takes to scale them profitably. The panel’s topics include: AI in growth teams — which tasks it already replaces, and why humans still own strategy Performance marketing's limits — why trust-driven categories like fintech need brand channels too Web-to-app funnels — near-double conversion rates and skipping the 30% app store tax Channel strategy for 2026 — fewer channels done better vs. always testing new ones Data and targeting vs. creative — where each wins, and the 96% CPA reduction story

In this episode, we're talking about app store visibility - and about the fact that organic and paid aren't two separate budgets. Every channel you run, no matter where it starts, ends up on the same product page. And the platforms are watching what happens there. To cover all this, we've got Stephanie Ino, Client Services Manager at Gummicube, about how ASO and paid search feed each other on the App Store and Google Play. Stephanie explains why ASO is the home base every channel returns to, how Apple Ads and Google Ads send relevance signals back into the organic algorithm, and why the right split between the two depends on budget, app maturity, and how much relevance you've already built. She also covers Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings as a way to align paid traffic with the right creative, and why a younger app should build its ASO foundation before pushing paid spend through. If you work in app store optimization, user acquisition, or app growth, this is a clear look at how the paid and organic sides of the store actually connect. Today’s topics include: ASO as home base - metadata and creative work together because almost every channel routes users back to the product page or store listing Paid feeding organic - Apple Ads SERP placements and Google Ads Play Store placements both send relevance signals into the algorithm for the terms you're targeting Striking the balance - there's no blanket answer, it comes down to available budget, app size, and maturity in the storefront Younger apps first build relevance - get the ASO foundation and keyword rankings in place, then push paid traffic through at a lower acquisition cost Custom Product Pages and Custom Store Listings - matching store assets to each paid campaign's strategy so the traffic you buy actually converts Links and Resources: Stephanie Ino on LinkedIn Gummicube website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Stephanie Ino “ASO is where everything comes back to, kind of home base. Most of any channel will come back into that product page or that store listing.” "When we're running Apple Ads, particularly for those SERP results, it gives that boost in relevance so that Apple understands that we have better potential to then rank organically for those terms." “If we're working with a younger app in the storefront, we don't have that relevance built out yet within the algorithm. So we really want to focus on our organic and our ASO performance first.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Today we're talking about mobile A/B testing - and about the moment the app store hands you a winner. Because that result is directional, not the truth. And if most of your traffic is paid, you may have measured the wrong users entirely. In this episode, we speak with Scott Masters, Director of Strategy and Partnerships at Gummicube, about why mobile A/B testing is never set-and-forget. Scott explains why most developers and marketers under-invest in testing, what a sensible cadence looks like - once or twice a month, with each test running at least two weeks to reach statistical significance - and why changing one element at a time is the only way to know what actually moved the needle. If you work in app store optimization, user acquisition, or app growth, this is a practical guide to testing your product page properly. Today’s topics include: Why testing is never one-and-done - trends, user preferences, and app features all shift, and a static product page goes stale Cadence and statistical significance - test once or twice a month, run each test at least two weeks, with traffic volume determining how long One variable at a time - change the screenshot copy and the imagery together and you won't know which one worked What to test beyond screenshots - title, subtitle, short and full descriptions, icons, and feature graphics all feed the strategy Measuring what's real - platform confidence intervals are directional, so validate with pre- vs. post-deployment conversion rates across every channel Links and Resources: Scott Masters on LinkedIn Gummicube website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Scott Masters “If you're not A/B testing at least once or twice a month, you're leaving users out there for other competitors to take from you.” "It's not a one-and-done. You can't set it and forget it. It's just like with any other brand - you create a package for your product and you put it on the shelf. If it doesn't change over time, if you're not attracting those users with new materials or new approaches, it's going to get stale." “The platforms will give you an estimated conversion impact and confidence interval for each test you run. But that data is directional. True validation of performance really comes from launching a test winner into the store and then measuring the pre-deployment conversion rate versus the post-deployment conversion rate.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

In a world built to fragment your attention, one news app made the opposite bet: fewer ads, trusted sources, and users who actually stay. In this episode, we speak with Ramesh Ramalingam, VP of Product at SmartNews, about how a Japanese news app was rebuilt — not ported — for American users. Ramesh explains why SmartNews users spend 20 minutes per session, why 79% of them don't switch to another screen while reading, and how that focus turns into brand recall for advertisers. He also covers contextual targeting without cross-web tracking, why the product looks different in Tokyo than in Los Angeles, and how a revenue-share model keeps publishers in the loop. If you work in product, app growth, or media monetization, this is a conversation about building for engagement quality rather than scale. Today’s topics include: Engagement over scale — 20-minute average sessions and why 79% of users stay undistracted Monetization model — native brand and performance advertising, programmatic where it fits, plus SmartNews+ subscriptions in Japan Brand safety and privacy — contextual targeting, first-party data, and third-party validation instead of invasive tracking Japan to US expansion — high-density vs. clean-white-space design, local publisher partnerships, and building credibility from scratch Centralized vs. decentralized product development — core platform in Japan, market teams close to local users Links and Resources: Ramesh Ramalingam on LinkedIn Smartnews website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Ramesh Ramalingam “What is interesting about SmartNews is it's not about the scale. We're talking about 50 million, but it's more about the user engagement. Our users spend on average 20 minutes in our product, which is very high.” “From an advertiser perspective, yes, they do care about the reach, but trust is the most important aspect. We don't rely on invasive tracking across the web like other platforms do. What we built is a privacy-first, brand-safe environment.” “We didn't take the Japanese app and plug it into the US. We made sure that it is customized to the user preferences in the US, and it's built for American users.” Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Everyone in app growth has an opinion on AI, web-to-app, and channel strategy — but few of those opinions ever get stress-tested in public. In this episode, we bring you a live panel debate featuring: Hannah Parvaz, Founder at Aperture Ewelina Pendino, App Growth & Performance Marketing Global Lead at Binance Veronica Lee, Global Performance Media Specialist at H&M. The format is simple: six provocative statements — from AI replacing growth roles to data versus creative — and the panel, along with a live audience voting in real time, has to agree or disagree. Along the way, you'll hear which growth tasks AI can already handle, why fintech can't rely on performance marketing alone, and how changing a single optimization event cut cost per acquisition by 96%. If you work in app growth, user acquisition, or performance marketing, this is what's real, what's noise, and what to try next week. The panel’s topics include: AI in growth teams — which tasks it already replaces, and why humans still own strategy Performance marketing's limits — why trust-driven categories like fintech need brand channels too Web-to-app funnels — near-double conversion rates and skipping the 30% app store tax Channel strategy for 2026 — fewer channels done better vs. always testing new ones Data and targeting vs. creative — where each wins, and the 96% CPA reduction story

What if the channel you've written off as "brand-only" could measurably lift your Meta and Google performance? In this episode, tech journalist David Murphy is joined by Mike Fogarty, Head of Client Development at Tatari, and Lauren Frame, Director of Growth & Brand Media at Greenlight, to explore how a performance-first app brand turned TV from a scary experiment into an always-on channel that now accounts for over a third of its media mix. Whether you're a growth marketer watching CACs climb on paid social, wondering how to measure a channel without click-through attribution, or curious whether AI-produced creative can fight TV's fatigue problem, this conversation offers a practical framework for treating TV as a performance channel. Today’s topics include: What Tatari does differently from a DSP: convergent buying across streaming, linear, and online video, with direct network relationships Why Greenlight tapped out at 90% Meta and Google — paying more and more to reach the same non-converting users The "TV is for big brands" perception, and the lessons from going into the Super Bowl in year one Why you can't pick just linear or streaming: the Disney test that found less than 2% audience overlap The targeting opportunities streaming opens up for a parent-focused app How Tatari made TV feel like a digital channel: self-service activation, AI-powered planning, and real-time optimization Measuring TV: dynamic baseline lift, ACR data, MMP integrations, and Greenlight's stack of Rockerbox, iSpot, Kantar, and MMM Geo-based incrementality tests: streaming drove nearly 5x first-touch, new-to-brand customers vs. 1.1x for linear, with Meta reach up 4%, traffic up 8%, and funnel starts up 10% in test regions AI-produced commercials: Greenlight's Peter Pan spot, creative ethics, and solving creative fatigue with new messaging every quarter Honest advice for performance marketers still on the fence about testing TV Links and Resources: Lauren Frame on LinkedIn Greenlight website Mike Fogarty on LinkedIn Tatari website Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012

Let's be honest — nobody wakes up in the morning excited to open your app. Well, some people may but definitely not all of them! And in 2026, the CRM teams that win aren't the ones sending more messages. They're the ones who know exactly who to reach, on which channel, at which moment — and when to say nothing at all. In this special episode, we're bringing you the Business of Apps London 2026 panel 2026 CRM Trends: The Ultimate Guide to Customer Retention. It's a candid look at what retention really takes right now — from LLMs quietly rewriting app discovery to why downloads have become a vanity metric — told by three people running lifecycle for some of the UK's most recognizable brands: Francesca Stringer of Sky Jill Angus of Aviva Isabelle von Matuschka of Studio LTV The panel’s topics include: AI is rewriting app discovery — consumers are outsourcing decisions to LLMs instead of browsing the App Store, downloads are becoming a vanity metric, and Sky is now prioritizing GEO over SEO. Personalization is moving upstream — it's no longer about tailoring the message but about arbitration and orchestration: deciding who gets a message, on which channel, at what moment, and whether they need one at all. Product and marketing are now a joint venture — siloed teams can't win retention anymore; feedback loops, shared data, and embedded partnerships are the new operating model. CRM starts long before the email — ASO, custom product cards, and seeding the app into above-the-line campaigns and brand experiences (the M&S playbook) are the underused retention levers. Trust is fragile — and the hot takes — trust dies by a thousand micro-cuts (irrelevant pushes, broken links); community is overrated as a retention silver bullet; and CRM must stop being email-led.

You know it better than us — the era of experimenting with AI is over. The question isn't whether to use it anymore. It's whether it's actually moving the numbers. In 2026, the winners aren't the teams running clever pilots. They're the ones who've wired AI into the core of their growth engine — into how they find users, activate them, and figure out what those users really want. In this special episode, we're syndicating the Business of Apps London 2026 panel AI in Action: Real-World Use Cases. It's a no-hype look at what's working right now — told through live examples from three people scaling it in practice: Steve Young of App Masters Anton Volovyk of Reface Nathan Hudson of Perceptycs. The panel’s topics include: The AI tools actually driving results right now (Claude, n8n) — and where they fit Case study: how Bite Pal's AI creatives were built and scaled Deep dive: producing a 100% AI-generated video ad, start to finish When AI is not the right answer — and the biggest mistakes teams make AI vs. UGC and the changing role of marketing teams in the AI era

Performance marketers are running out of levers — and the one most teams haven't pulled yet is signal. In this episode, we speak with Shumel Lais , Founder of Day30, about signal engineering and why it may be the most important skill in performance marketing right now. Shumel explains what signal engineering actually is, how prediction models use behavioural data to identify high-value users before they ever convert, and why synthetic events — goals you engineer rather than observe — help ad platforms like Meta find better users faster. He also shares how subscription apps have achieved up to 50% reductions in CAC, and why, with everything else becoming automated, signal is now one of only two levers performance marketers still control. If you work in user acquisition or subscription growth, this is a must-listen. Today’s topics include: What signal engineering is — and how it differs from simply tracking conversion events How prediction models use behavioural data to score users by conversion probability Synthetic events — engineering goals that don't yet exist to give ad platforms a sharper target Why subscription apps generate the behavioural data depth that makes signal engineering work The three components of an effective signal: volume, velocity, and precision Why performance marketers are down to just two levers — creative and signal Links and Resources: Shumel Lais on LinkedIn Day30 Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry Quotes from Shumel Lais “The concept of signal engineering is to see how we can manipulate that event to give the ad platforms a stronger correlation to the business value that you're after." "A synthetic event is, ultimately, when we're creating an event that doesn't actually exist. These are not things that have actually occurred — but based on the data we take in, we can build this from scratch." "When I think of performance marketing now, everything's become very algorithmic and very black box. There's less and less levers available for marketers to pull. I think there's only really two levers left — one is creative, and the second lever is signal." Host Business Of Apps - connecting the app industry since 2012