Across The Table

There are thousands of books out there to tell you how to negotiate. But it is impossible to replicate what is is actually like in the room.In this episode of Across the Table, Joe Perry welcomes back Tom Hayes, labour relations consultant, former trade union official and co-author of Respect with Rick Warters. They talk about how negotiation really works in employment relations.Tom draws on fifty years at the table, from European Works Councils and plant closures to collective bargaining with unions across Europe. He sets out his four Ps of negotiation: preparation, power, possibilities and publicity. With the Employment Rights Act set to create more bargaining situations, this is a practical guide for anyone who’ll be in the room.Tom shares his views on:Why 90% of everything in labour relations is negotiableWhy preparation is 70–80% of the job, and why aligning your own side is often harder than the talks themselvesLiving with a mandate: you can move the furniture, but you can’t leave the roomWhy you should never walk into a negotiation without at least one possible solutionManaging publicity when there’s a running commentary on everythingWhy reputation is your only real currency, and how to handle “madman” tactics without rising to themReading, reflecting and building a negotiating style that’s genuinely your ownThis is a candid, funny and deeply practical conversation about trust, preparation and the courage to tell people they’re wrong.Chapters00:00 Introduction: negotiation in ER and HR02:02 Why Tom and Rick Waters wrote Respect04:13 Walton and McKersie, and the four Ps07:29 Getting your own side aligned09:29 Mandates: moving the furniture, not leaving the room11:58 Power and leverage14:06 Possibilities: never go in without a solution14:55 Publicity in a 24/7 media world22:49 Creating space for dialogue when talks get difficult24:21 Trust, reputation and respect26:40 The madman theory and how to handle it30:44 A negotiation that worked, and the courage to say no33:21 One thing to try: read, reflect, make it your ownGuest: Tom HayesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-hayes-01637320/Book: https://thascs.com/respectHost: Joe PerryLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-perry-45ab1127Newsletter: https://joecollectiveer.substack.comWebsite: https://CollaboratER.orgAbout the showAcross the Table is about the conversations that shape work and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work actually works.For sponsorship enquiries email: [email protected]

Most people picture addiction as something that happens to other people, somewhere else. Dr Georges Petitjean has spent his career in addiction treatment. He'll tell you that people living with addiction look like anyone you've met in the last week, and that most of them are hiding it at work.In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by Dr Georges Petitjean, addiction specialist and founder of WARM (the Workplace Addiction and Recovery Movement). They explore why addiction remains one of the most stigmatised health conditions at work, and what HR, ER and line managers can do differently.From surgeons rushing operations to get back to their phones to the fit note that says "stress" when it should say "gambling". Georges shares his views on:why most addiction stays hidden unless managers have built real psychological safetyhow to open a conversation that feels like concern, not accusationwhy "we prefer to know than not to know" belongs in every policywhy behavioural addictions (gambling, gaming, screens) are the blind spot in most workplace policieshow drinking culture, leadership role models and work events shape what happens before and after the working dayand the one thing any manager can do on Monday morning that costs nothingIf anything in this episode affects you or someone close to you, support links are below:NHS: how to get help for drug addictionMind: useful contacts for drug and alcohol addictionChapters00:28 Introduction to Workplace Addiction and Recovery02:32 Introducing Dr Georges Petitjean03:45 The Non-Judgmental Approach to Addiction04:43 Early Signs of Substance Use Issues06:09 Starting Conversations with Employees08:01 Supporting Employee Well-being and Return to Work11:00 Stigma and Misconceptions About Addiction13:24 Policy Gaps and Behavioral Addictions16:32 Digital Addiction and Workplace Impact19:30 Is Digital Addiction Being Taken Seriously?22:24 Relapse, language and long-term support25:41 Workplace Culture and Substance Use Norms31:05 Practical Steps for Managers37:44 Closing Remarks and Key TakeawaysWhere to find Dr Georges PetitjeanLinkedIn: Georges PetitjeanWebsite: WARMHost: Joe PerryLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-perry-45ab1127Newsletter: https://joecollectiveer.substack.comWebsite: https://CollaboratER.orgAbout the showAcross the Table is about the conversations that shape work and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work actually works.For sponsorship enquiries email: [email protected]

Most people think the Employment Rights Act will transform trade union membership. Tom Hayes has been in labour relations for fifty years. He's not so sure and his reasons are worth listening to.In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by Tom Hayes - labour relations consultant, co-author of Respect, and founder of the Brussels European Employer Relations Group - to take an unflinching look at where trade unions actually stand, what the new legislation will and won't change, and what worker voice might need to look like in the future.From union density in France to the Springsteen line about a union card and a wedding coat, Tom brings five decades of experience to one of the most contested questions in employment relations: are trade unions in structural decline, and if so, what comes next?Drawing on his work with European Works Councils, multinational employers, and both sides of the table, Tom shares his views on:why collective bargaining leverage depends on membership, not legislationhow the sociological foundations of the union movement have shifted and aren't coming backwhy formal recognition doesn't automatically give unions bargaining powerwhat worker voice could look like beyond the traditional membership modeland what employers should be doing right now to prepare before they're caught coldThis is a candid, experienced, occasionally provocative conversation about power, democracy, and the future of work.Chapters[00:25] Introduction to Tom Hayes, trade unions and their relevance[03:03] Current state of trade union membership[05:53] Challenges facing trade unions[08:48] The role of collective bargaining[11:24] The evolution of trade unions[14:02] The future of employee voice[16:51] Workplace democracy and union participation[19:39] The disconnect between unions and membership[22:06] The need for new approaches[24:42] Planning for the future of work[27:23] Conclusion and practical adviceWhere to find Tom HayesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-hayes-01637320/Book: https://thascs.com/respectWebsite: https://thascs.comHost: Joe PerryLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-perry-45ab1127Newsletter: https://joecollectiveer.substack.comWebsite: https://CollaboratER.orgAbout the showAcross the Table is about the conversations that shape work and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work actually works.For sponsorship enquiries email: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])

Most organisations don't struggle with change because the plan is wrong. They struggle because the people delivering it are overwhelmed, unclear, and running on empty.In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by Tara Jones, founder of The Good Change Consultancy, to explore what high-performing teams actually need — and why good policies alone will never be enough.From the Employment Rights Act to the neuroscience of dysregulation, Joe and Tara get into what really drives team performance: culture, operations, communication, and trust. And what happens when those four things break down under the weight of constant change.Drawing on two decades of experience across government, policing, higher education, and highly unionised environments, Tara shares practical insight on: - why policy sets the intent but people deliver the outcome - why "everything is urgent" is a sign something has gone wrong - how dysregulation spreads through teams and becomes institutional - and what leaders can actually do to create the conditions where people can function wellThis is a grounded, honest conversation about change, clarity, and the cost of treating crisis as a culture.We discuss - Why policies don't deliver good outcomes people do [00:00] - What actually creates high-performing teams [06:16] - Culture, operations, communication and trust: the four pillars [06:47] - The tells of a low-trust team, and what high-trust looks like [12:41] - Joined-up leadership and better conversations in practice [15:12] - Slowing down to speed up, and why that's a hard sell [18:45] - The neuroscience of change: what dysregulation actually means [21:06] - Change as crisis, and why that panic becomes contagious [24:52] - One thing leaders can do on Monday morning [30:38]Chapters - [00:00] Understanding Change in the Workplace- [03:05] The Impact of Employment Rights Act- [05:58] Creating High-Performing Teams- [13:40] The Role of Leadership in Change- [19:09] Neuroscience of Change and Dysregulation- [24:26] Practical Steps for Leaders- [28:42] Conclusion and Key TakeawaysWhere to find Tara Jones - LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/tara-jones-1884728 - Website: https://www.thegoodchange.co.uk/Host: Joe Perry - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-perry-45ab1127 - Newsletter: https://joecollectiveer.substack.com - Website: https://CollaboratER.orgAbout the show Across the Table is about the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work works.For sponsorship inquiries email: [email protected]

Kindness isn't soft. It's what makes work actually work.Kind cultures aren't fluffy. They perform better, retain more people, and create environments where honest conversations can actually happen.In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by David Beeney, speaker, consultant and author of Breaking the Silence, to explore what kinder workplace cultures really look like and why kindness and performance are not in tension.Drawing on nearly 40 years in the workplace and a decade helping organisations build cultures where people can be honest about their mental health, David shares practical insights on:why "difficult conversations" is the wrong frame entirelyhow line managers make or break culture, whatever senior leaders saywhy mental health first aiders alone won't fix your organisationwhat the one to 17 check-in can tell you that one to 10 never willhow being kinder to yourself makes you better at your jobWe DiscusWhy David hates the phrase "difficult conversations" and what to say instead [06:10]The bank that asked 76,000 staff "do we care about you?" and what 50% said [09:17]Why you can build a kind culture even when the one above you isn't [12:12] Sally's dog and what it taught David about transactional vs meaningful relationships [14:59] The man who was always 10 out of 10 and why that should have been a warning sign [14:59]FIFO culture and who's really responsible for changing it [20:50] Why mental health first aiders are not enough [12:12] Two things every manager and leader can do on Monday morning [26:20]Chapters[00:00] Intro & David's story [03:54] Breaking the Silence - the book [06:10] Honest conversations, not difficult ones [09:17] Tone from the top [12:12] The role of line managers in kind cultures [14:59] Sally's dog & the 1 to 17 check-in [17:58] Kind cultures & performance - getting the balance right [20:50] What good leadership visibility looks like [23:28] Not turning managers into fluffy bunnies [26:20] Final thoughts on kindness and self-careWhere to find David BeenyLinkedIn: David BeeneyWebsite: Breaking The SilenceBook: Breaking the SilenceHost: Joe PerryLinkedIn: Joe PerryNewsletter: Across The Table by Joe PerryWebsite: collaboratERAbout the showAcross the Table explores the conversations that shape work, and the people who have them. Practical, grounded discussions for HR professionals, managers, and leaders navigating modern ER and HR challenges.For sponsorship inquiries: [email protected]

Change programmes don’t fail because the plan is wrong.They fail when the human experience is ignored.In this episode of Across the Table, host Joe Perry is joined by Tara Jones, founder of The Good Change Consultancy, to explore what it really takes to lead change while protecting dignity, trust, and working relationships.From system rollouts and restructures to new policies and operating models, organisations often pour time and money into business cases, timelines, and governance, while missing a simple truth: change only happens through people.Drawing on decades of experience across central government, policing, higher education, charities, and highly unionised environments, Tara shares practical insights on:- why “change resistance” is a misleading label- why comms alone won’t build trust- how dignity becomes the first casualty of poorly handled change and how leaders can make space for honest conversations without slowing deliveryThis is a grounded, practical conversation about leadership, employee voice, compassionate challenge, and how to move away from permanent crisis mode, toward change that actually sticks.We discuss- Why change programmes lose sight of people [00:00]- Dignity at work and the human cost of transformation [03:48]- Why “change resistance” is the wrong diagnosis [07:25]- Meaningful involvement vs “just doing some comms” [07:25]- Outcomes before plans: what leaders get wrong [11:22]- Trust, honesty, and saying “I don’t know” [12:39]- Crisis mode, BAU, and fractured relationships [16:23]- Compassionate challenge and asking better questions [19:38]- Why honouring people can speed up delivery [22:36]- One simple Monday-morning change leaders can try [25:16]Chapters- [00:00] Change programmes & the missing human truth- [03:48] Dignity at work during transformation- [07:25] Rethinking “change resistance”- [11:22] Outcomes vs delivery plans- [14:12] Leadership, urgency & space to think- [16:23] Crisis culture & BAU reality- [19:38] Compassionate challenge- [22:36] Does human-centred change slow delivery?- [25:16] A practical change you can make next week- [26:45] Wrap-up & reflectionsWhere to find Tara Jones- LinkedIn: Tara Jones - Website: The Good Change ConsultancyHost: Joe Perry- LinkedIn: Joe Perry- Newsletter: Across the Table by Joe Perry- Website: collaboratER About the showAcross the Table is about the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work works.For sponsorship inquiries email: [email protected]

Deb Rees (HR Manager at LSN Diffusion) returns for Episode 2, fresh from attending the CBI Roundtable in London and appearing on the BBC Radio 4 Today Programme.This episode explores how SMEs can prepare without panic as workplaces face major changes: the Keep Britain Working Review, the Employment Rights Bill, rising conflict and pressure on small HR teams.Host Joe Perry looks at practical steps small organisations can take before changes land.⚠️ Legislative Update: Recorded before the 27 Nov 2025 announcement. Unfair dismissal protection will now start after six months, not day one. Day-one rights to SSP and paternity leave are still due from April 2026.We discuss:Deb’s week: CBI Roundtable + BBC Radio 4 Today Programme [01:20]Why UK HR is facing a “perfect storm” of pressures [02:40]Deb’s SME HR framework: kindness, development, belonging [04:39]Sick pay changes: SSP, waiting days & early contact [05:55]Why letting sickness drift is “unkind” — and what SMEs must do [07:57]Day-one rights: what changes and what SMEs need to prepare [10:10]Conflict, tribunals & conciliation delays — early resolution [13:23]Line manager capability & why soft skills training matters [17:35]Wellbeing, neurodiversity & building belonging at work [21:34]Chapters[00:08] Intro + Deb’s week: CBI + BBC Radio 4[02:40] The “perfect storm”[04:39] SME HR priorities[05:55] SSP & sickness changes[07:57] Why absence drift is unkind[10:10] Day-one rights & probation[13:23] Conflict & early resolution[17:35] Manager capability[21:34] Wellbeing & belonging[25:00] Wrap-upWhere to find Deb ReesLinkedIn: Deb ReesWebsite: LSN DiffusionReferencedKeep Britain Working ReviewACAS & early conciliationSkilled Managers Programme (Professor Saundry)Host: Joe PerryLinkedIn: Joe PerryNewsletter: Across the TableWebsite: CollaboratER.orgAbout the showAcross the Table explores the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Practical, grounded discussions for HR professionals, managers, and leaders navigating modern ER and HR challenges.For sponsorship inquiries: [email protected]

Deb Rees is the HR Manager at LSN Diffusion, a manufacturing SME in South Wales. Over recent years, her team has halved sickness absence (6% → ~2–3.5%), cut turnover (33% → 7.5%), and strengthened trust and engagement - all without corporate bureaucracy.In this first episode, Deb joins host Joe Perry to share a practical SME HR “playbook” you can use on Monday morning.We discuss:Why SME HR can move faster - and where it’s uniquely hard [03:13]Examples of “small org speed”: shift patterns, medical support, hardship loans [03:50]The “family feel”: how proximity helps (and sometimes hurts) engagement [04:52]Absence management that works: cost analysis, policy, training, KPIs [08:07]Sustaining results: pay, bonuses, data culture, transparency [11:01]How absence links to conflict and why honesty + support beat punishment [13:54]Lifelong learning as a culture shift [16:31]Avoiding overwhelm: imperfect action, self-care, networks [21:39]Looking ahead: AI’s promise, EDI shifts, Employment Rights Act (2025) [26:58]Chapters[00:30] Intro & why SMEs matter[03:33] The dynamics of SME HR[06:22] Managing absenteeism & wellbeing[09:38] Making policy & training stick[12:22] Professional development that changes culture[15:27] Networking, self-care, and focus[18:18] The future of HR[21:32] Wrap-up & key takeawaysWhere to find Deb Rees:LinkedIn: Deborah ReesWebsite: LSN DiffusionReferencedKeep Britain Working: Sir Charlie MayfieldCIPD: Health and Wellbeing Report 2025Daniel Barnett: Employment Law ResourcesRecommended booksCollective Employment RelationsHost: Joe Perry  LinkedIn: Joe PerryNewsletter: Across the TableWebsite: collaboratER.orgAbout the showAcross the Table is about the conversations that shape work - and the people who have them. Thoughtful, grounded talks about how work works.For sponsorship inquiries email: [email protected]