Product-Led HR: Building High-Performance Teams with Better Metrics & AI | L&D Disrupt | Episode 106

What happens when you stop treating people initiatives as standalone HR programmes and start connecting them directly to business performance?In this episode of L&D Disrupt, Pauline Taylor is joined by Luke Fisher, CEO of Sova and Co-founder of Mō, to explore what it really takes to build high-performance environments where people, culture and business outcomes are connected.Luke shares lessons from scaling Mō across 50 countries, including why recognition is much more than a nice-to-have, how managers shape the employee experience, and why the organisations getting recognition right are putting the power in managers’ hands rather than relying on top-down awards programmes.The conversation also explores the future of talent assessment, from AI changing the role of the CV to using skills, potential and personality data to make better hiring and development decisions. Luke shares why this data shouldn’t stop once someone is hired, and how it could inform onboarding, personalised development, internal mobility and succession planning.Finally, Luke shares his advice for HR and L&D professionals looking to build credibility with the C-suite: start with the business context, not the people initiative.In this episode, we explore:Why recognition can influence engagement, retention, productivity and performanceThe critical role managers play in shaping employee experience and cultureWhy top-down recognition programmes often miss the majority of the organisationHow to build recognition into everyday team habits, rituals and routinesWhy personalised learning and development will become increasingly importantHow AI is changing hiring and making traditional CVs less reliableUsing talent data across the entire employee lifecycle, not just recruitmentHow HR and L&D can connect their work to revenue, cost and productivityWhat it really takes to earn credibility and a seat at the tableBecause when people initiatives are connected to the outcomes the business actually cares about, they stop being seen as an HR project and start becoming a business lever.

AI is changing the way we learn and work, but what does that mean for the future of L&D?Pauline, VP of People at HowNow, is joined by Toby Newman, Founder of Control Coaching Diagnostics, to explore why self-awareness, psychological safety and learning in the flow of work are becoming increasingly important.They discuss why traditional leadership training and LMSs often fail to drive real behavioural change, how L&D can shift from controlling knowledge to enabling it, and what AI agents could mean for personalised learning and coaching. Toby also shares why L&D needs to work more closely with IT and become a translator between technology and people.00:00 Welcome and Intro03:00 Toby’s L&D Origin Story04:13 Redundancy to New Venture05:46 Why Self Awareness Matters08:22 Self Awareness as Skill12:30 Practical Awareness Habits15:41 Psych Safety and Vulnerability19:24 Lead Yourself First20:37 Team Charters and RACI24:52 What’s Broken in Leadership Training28:23 Train Leaders Early29:18 Death of the LMS30:02 Metrics vs Real Impact33:24 Self Directed Learning36:36 AI Hype vs Reality38:04 L&D as Translator42:32 AI Agents Coaching46:28 Knowledge Ownership Shift51:28 Quality Control Debate55:31 Next 12 Months Disruption58:37 Wrap Up and Connect

AI is changing how people work — but what does that mean for L&D?Kelsey, Learning & Performance Lead at HowNow, is joined by Patrick Mullarkey, founder of Byte and Build Consulting, to explore how AI is pushing L&D beyond traditional training and towards performance, business outcomes and commercial impact.They discuss what AI can’t replace, the importance of quality assurance and bias, using AI data to uncover real employee needs, and why L&D needs to move beyond vanity metrics. Patrick also shares his “giving away your Legos” analogy and explains why L&D professionals should seek mentors outside the People function.Chapters00:00 Own Business Outcomes01:59 Welcome Back to L&D03:30 AI Changes Everything05:15 Making AI Strategic09:34 What AI Can’t Replace16:22 Bias & Quality Risks19:07 The Quality Assurance Playbook25:51 L&D Becomes Performance29:45 The L&D Value Gap31:18 Know the Money33:41 Roadmaps to Experiments37:14 From Big to Modular42:01 AI Usage Insights45:40 Kill Vanity Metrics46:40 Giving Away Your Legos49:10 Own Real Outcomes50:46 Mentors Outside People54:34 Final Wrap-Up

In this episode of L&D Disrupt, host Kelsey (HowNow) speaks with Leah Fellstad, L&D Manager at Crimson Hotels, about why great learning starts with treating people like people.Leah shares her journey from hospitality to teaching and L&D, and explains how her experience managing teams shaped her approach to learning, leadership and employee experience. From achieving 86% staff retention in a previous hospitality role to helping reduce turnover at Crimson Hotels, Leah has seen first-hand how much belonging, strong managers and a better first-day experience can influence whether people stay.She takes us inside Crimson’s approach to onboarding, including pre-join welcome guides, first-day hotel tours, buddies, phased compliance learning and regular check-ins, all designed to help new employees feel part of the team rather than simply complete their training.Leah also explores how L&D can build a stronger internal talent pipeline by developing “accidental managers” through leadership training, coaching, apprenticeships and mentorship. She shares practical examples of giving employees ownership of learning, from team-created training checklists to user-generated videos that capture real knowledge from the workplace.And while AI is everywhere in L&D, Leah makes the case for keeping the human experience at the centre. AI can assist with the work, but it can’t replace the person-to-person connection that makes people feel supported, confident and like they belong.The conversation also explores how L&D contributes to business outcomes, from reducing risk and improving compliance to strengthening guest experiences, retention and operational performance.Chapters00:00 Leadership Lessons Learned01:32 Welcome to L&D Disrupt01:58 Leah’s Hospitality Journey03:05 From GM Goals to Training Passion04:21 Teaching in Singapore05:32 Back to UK L&D Growth07:36 Why Retention Starts With Belonging09:38 Rethinking the First Day of Onboarding13:28 Creating Meaningful Experiences14:58 Getting Managers Bought In16:11 Coaching and Building an Internal Pipeline21:11 Developing the “Accidental Manager”23:31 Learning Through Microlearning24:13 Creating a Leadership Corner25:15 Learning Through Mistakes25:56 Discovering Leadership Can Be Learned27:04 What Great Managers Look Like28:39 Creating a People Experience Under Pressure30:45 Giving Teams Ownership of Learning32:55 Keeping Long-Tenured Employees Growing36:03 The Future of User-Generated Learning37:56 The Squiggly Nature of Hospitality Careers40:02 Connecting L&D to Business Results42:31 What L&D Should Start, Stop and Keep Doing45:46 Why Human Connection Still Matters46:15 Final Thanks and Wrap

What happens when we stop making HR and learning feel beige?Michelle Hartley, founder of People Sorted and Find Your Awesome, joins L&D Disrupt to explore how HR and L&D can become more human, engaging and memorable, from the way we design training to how we measure its impact.Michelle shares why she believes learning should be something people participate in, remember and apply, rather than simply complete. She talks us through her 10-minute approach to training, how she turned a compliance session into an experience employees still talk about, and why L&D needs to look beyond completion rates towards application, behaviour change and business impact. We also get into Michelle's own experience of burnout and the small “1%” changes that helped her reconnect with her energy and authenticity, as well as her vision for a more personalised future of workplace learning, one that feels less like mandatory training and more like the personalised experiences we get as consumers. Plus, Michelle shares what L&D can learn from the HR Geek Squad about psychological safety, belonging, participation and giving people genuine ownership within a community.00:00 Human HR Matters01:28 Meet Michelle Hartley02:13 Pizza Hut to HR03:42 Launching People Sorted05:10 Burnout and Two Selves07:52 One Percent Changes10:05 Why Burnout Happens13:17 Spotting the Ripples16:37 Managers Who Notice19:21 Beige to Brilliant HR21:35 Humor as Engagement24:17 Training That Works25:37 Making Compliance Memorable27:53 Why Compliance Fails28:20 Netflix Style Learning30:34 Beyond Completion Metrics32:54 Measuring Stickability35:08 Learning Data Confidence38:30 Data Gatekeeping at Work39:26 Inside HR Geek Squad44:31 Building Safe Communities46:27 Ownership and Participation48:51 Bin Friday Wrap Up53:28 Final Thanks and Links

In this episode of L&D Disrupt, Kelsey from HowNow sits down with Jordana Cole, founder of Ignited, to explore why organisations may be approaching AI all wrong.Rather than positioning AI as a tool for efficiency or task replacement, Jordana argues that we should think of it as an operating system for people enablement, one that can amplify uniquely human strengths, support personalised growth and help people work in entirely new ways.They explore why L&D needs to move beyond linear, step-by-step AI training and focus instead on behaviour change, experimentation and learning in the flow of work. Jordana shares practical ways to help people build confidence with AI, from treating it as a collaborative partner to simply asking, “What questions do you have for me?”The conversation also challenges L&D to move beyond being an “order taker” and become a more strategic business partner — understanding the organisation, asking better questions, designing for outcomes and creating the conditions for people to experiment safely.From communities of practice and AI QA skills to improv, playfulness and uncovering the strengths people bring from outside work, Jordana shares a fresh perspective on what it takes to navigate change, and why the future of L&D might actually be people enablement and AI enablement.Why organisations are getting AI adoption wrong, how L&D can move from content and order-taking to strategic people enablement, and how to build the confidence, skills and conditions for people to experiment with AI. We also explore learning in the flow of work, communities of practice, AI quality and judgement, and the role of play and experimentation in navigating change.00:00 AI Efficiency Fears01:31 Meet Jordana & Her Journey03:44 AI as an Operating System08:22 Prompting & Working With AI09:54 From Content to Behaviour Change10:39 Making L&D More Strategic17:36 AI Quality, QA & Risk22:35 Building Communities of Practice27:32 Learning in the Flow of Work28:57 Improv, Play & Experimentation34:13 Overcoming Barriers to AI Adoption34:53 Pilots, Champions & Proving Value40:37 Unlocking Strengths Beyond Work45:39 The Future of People Enablement47:33 Stop Taking Orders50:05 Closing Thoughts

In this episode of L&D Disrupt, Pauline sits down with Asi Degani, former Director of Skills and Talent at London Stock Exchange Group (LSEG) and now Head of the AI Academy at **NTT DATA, to explore what it really takes to build a skills-based organisation.Asi shares how LSEG developed its Career Navigator talent marketplace, creating a transparent framework that mapped roles, skills and proficiency levels across the business. He explains how a voluntary rollout, manual skills taxonomy and Skills 360 assessments helped improve internal mobility, support fairer promotions and give leaders a clearer view of workforce capability.They also discuss why organisations should start with the business problem, not the technology, how smaller companies can adopt a skills-first approach, what to look for when choosing learning technology, and why AI should be framed as an opportunity to enhance work rather than simply drive efficiency.Timestamps:00:00 Welcome & Introductions00:52 Asi's Career Journey02:47 Why Skills Matter More Than Ever05:03 Building LSEG's Career Navigator07:16 Skills vs. Competencies09:59 Driving Adoption Across the Business12:16 Skills 360 Assessments16:12 Fairer Promotions Through Skills Data18:38 Measuring Success19:49 Applying Skills in Smaller Organisations24:02 Start With Your "Why"25:30 Reducing Bias Through Skills Visibility26:09 Choosing the Right Learning Technology27:40 Why Integration Matters28:39 Building the Business Case for Skills30:26 AI Upskilling Beyond Efficiency33:19 Changing the AI Narrative36:00 Jobs Will Change, Not Disappear38:50 Vibe Coding & Local LLMs39:54 Hallucinations vs. Human Bias40:52 Preparing for the Future of Work42:51 What's Next & Closing Thoughts

What happens when L&D stops thinking like a support function and starts thinking like the business?In this episode of L&D Disrupt, Kelsey Botne from HowNow is joined by Elizabeth Chaloner, Head of Learning & Talent Development at Lastminute.com, to explore what it really takes to align learning with business priorities.Elizabeth shares why L&D professionals should see themselves as business people with L&D expertise not the other way around, and explains how this mindset shift changes everything from stakeholder conversations to measuring success. Using her memorable "pastry chef" analogy, she discusses why understanding the outcome should always come before designing the solution.The conversation also explores how AI is helping L&D teams work smarter, from analysing qualitative feedback and performance reviews to building assessments and sense-checking strategy. Elizabeth explains why capability metrics, behaviour change and business outcomes matter far more than course completions and learning hours.If you're looking to increase L&D's influence, prove impact, and use AI in practical ways, this episode is packed with actionable insights.In this episode, you'll learn:Why L&D needs to think like the businessHow to become a strategic partner instead of an order takerWhich learning metrics leaders actually care aboutPractical ways to use AI in L&D beyond content creationHow to measure capability and behaviour changeWhy shipping quickly often beats waiting for perfectionHow to build a culture of continuous learning during constant changeTimestamps:00:00 Why L&D Must Think Like the Business01:22 Meet Your Host01:44 Elizabeth's Career Journey02:19 Becoming a Business Partner03:31 The Pastry Chef Analogy04:44 Listening for Business Strategy05:52 Using AI as a Strategic Coach06:40 Navigating Barriers & Trade-offs08:13 Showing Value Early11:15 The Metrics That Really Matter13:42 Empowering Your Team16:01 Growing While Delivering17:20 Leading Through Constant Change18:31 Progress Over Perfection19:04 Forecasting with Data20:23 Building a Learning Mindset22:31 Making Time to Learn24:29 Staying Curious About AI25:43 From Learning Content to Behaviour Change28:00 Balancing Learning with Business Priorities29:08 AI for Learning Insights30:59 Avoiding AI Distractions32:17 Hot Takes & Closing Thoughts

In this episode of L&D Disrupt, host Pauline Taylor, VP of People at HowNow, sits down with Daniel Gualdino, Head of Head of People, Talent & Culture at Oatly, to explore why HR should start thinking more like a product team. Daniel explains what Product-Led HR really means: designing employee experiences around people's needs, using data to drive decisions, and measuring success through business outcomes, not vanity metrics.Together, they unpack how People teams can move beyond reactive policies and administrative work to become strategic business partners. Daniel shares why mapping the entire employee journey is key to identifying moments that matter, how to combine qualitative and quantitative data to tell a compelling business story, and why understanding how the business makes money is essential for earning a seat at the table.The conversation also explores where AI can create genuine value for HR, why critical thinking and context still matter, and what defines a truly high-performance culture. From psychological safety and continuous feedback to recognition and manager effectiveness, Daniel explains why great managers remain one of the biggest drivers of organisational success.Daniel's hot take? Put people before processes, and processes before tools.00:00 Rethinking People Strategy01:27 Meet Daniel Gualdino02:18 From Psychology to HR04:12 What Product-Led HR Means06:42 People, Processes, Then Tools08:16 Metrics That Matter11:16 Mapping the Employee Journey14:41 AI Hype vs Fundamentals17:36 Discovery Through Data21:15 Getting Comfortable With Analytics25:40 The Future of Traditional HR26:13 Elevating the People Function26:43 How AI Changes HR's Value27:08 Building a Product Mindset28:55 Earning a Strategic Seat30:17 Defining High Performance31:35 Goals, Feedback & Psychological Safety35:04 Why Managers Matter Most39:31 AI Coaching for Managers42:42 Next Disruptions Ahead46:44 Unlearning & Closing Thoughts

In this episode of L&D Disrupt, host Pauline speaks with Monika Holliday, Head of People at British Airways Euroflyer, about why traditional approaches to talent development and performance are no longer fit for today's workforce. Drawing on a career that has spanned multiple industries, Monica shares how the world of work has fundamentally changed since COVID and why organisations need to rethink learning, career development, and employee growth. She explains how British Airways Euroflyer supports a multi-generational workforce by creating flexible development platforms instead of one-size-fits-all programmes, encouraging employees to take ownership of their learning, and embracing reverse mentoring to share knowledge across generations—including emerging AI skills. Monica also introduces "Career Shapes," an alternative to the traditional nine-box talent matrix that helps employees define their own career ambitions through meaningful conversations with managers and personalised development opportunities. The conversation explores the difference between high performance and sustained high pressure, why culture and teamwork are at the heart of organisational success, and how more agile goal setting can help organisations adapt in an ever-changing business environment. Monica's hot take for L&D teams? Stop forcing everyone up the same career ladder, create opportunities for people to grow in ways that work for them.00:00 Meet Monica Holliday00:38 Squiggly HR Journey02:22 Post COVID Work Shift03:50 Rethinking L&D Programs05:33 Managing Generations06:48 Platforms Not Programs08:51 Reverse Mentoring AI11:50 BA Mentoring Culture14:32 Culture Champions Inclusion16:55 Career Shapes Explained17:19 Beyond Nine Box20:17 Owning Your Career21:37 Career Shapes In Action22:23 Career Shapes Coaching24:55 Quiz To Career Paths27:16 Growth Without Promotion32:02 High Performance Culture35:27 Making Goals Work39:09 Final Advice And Wrap