Interview 53: Revelation: When Does God’s Wrath Begin?

Jordan Petersen is doing a series on the Gospels on the Daily Wire.The discussion panel consists of Jordan Peterson (a Canadian psychologist and social philosopher who admittedly is not a born-again believer), Dennis Prager (a religious Jew, founder of Prager U), Robert Barron (Roman Catholic bishop, philosopher, and evangelist for the Catholic Church), Johnathan Pageau (Christian thinker and liturgical artist, but not necessarily a born-again believer), Greg Hurwitz (Novelist and screenwriter), James Orr (professor of Philosophy of Religion at Cambridge University), John Vervaeke (Associate professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto, admittedly not a follower of Christ), Douglas Hedley (Professor of Philosophy of Religion at Cambridge University), and Stephen Blackwood (founding President of Ralston College, who grew up in a Christian home but was unclear about the exact nature of his faith).How are we supposed to respond to nine men discussing the gospels, when most of them are not true believers in Jesus Christ? Should we listen? Should we pray for those on the panel to be supernaturally exposed to the truth of the text? Should we avoid the discussion altogether as potentially corrupting?~~~The full article is here: The Word is Jesus! Should you let Jordan Peterson preach the Word to you? or, just listen to our podcast. Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

Our episode this time turns to the November/December edition of FrontLine, which came out on this theme: The Thinking Christian.Our first interview is with a man who is a long-time friend of mine, David Potter. Our first meeting was almost thirty years ago in Alameda, California. He served with the same mission board as I did, Baptist World Mission, and we've kept in touch over the years.He has contributed to Proclaim & Defend numerous times and has given us an article in FrontLine called, "The Renewed Mind: The Key to Conformity to the Will of God."The article is especially about God's moral will and living for God in a fallen world. We recently sat down for a conversation on this theme. I hope you will find it helpful.Let me remind you that paying subscribers to our substack will be able to read David's article right away. With a paid subscription to our substack, you will automatically get a subscription to the magazine. You can also subscribe just to the magazine itself. We encourage you to take advantage of the good Christian insights our magazine offfers.David mentioned a couple of books in our conversation, I'll provide links for them in the show notes.* Book recommendations: Pilgrim's Progress Updated English Edition, Includes Part 2, Christiana's Journey, Winning the War to Walk Worthy - Tim Berrey* Pilgrim's Progress worksheets (from Grace Baptist Church of Victoria - audio links not working, but worksheets available)Read the article here: The Renewed Mind: The Key to Conformity to the Will of God (preview only for non-paying subscribers) Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

Many people will be giving thanks this week—and probably a number who refuse to do so depending on their view of the recent elections.  Believers always have reason to give thanks regardless of how the circumstances of life turn.  It is such a renewing and invigorating exercise when we take the time to meditate on our Lord and give thanks to Him.  This is what Psalm 118 is intended to do for Israel, and for us as well.Give thanks for His faithful love. Psalm 118:1-5The word chesed is translated mercy here.  In other places, it is translated as lovingkindness.  I like using the term faithful love.  It flows from His goodness and His innate kindness toward me.  It flows out of His inmost being and is not just something He does, but reflects who He is.  When His love mixes with His eternality it produces a mercy without end—a love that endures forever. That manifests itself in times of blessing—like when we celebrate the harvest, but it also is evident when He answers my prayer in times of distress.Give thanks because He is your victory. Psalm 118:6-14This world is a hostile place for the true servant of God.  The god of this world is the enemy of the Heavenly one (John 8:44, Ephesians 2:2).  Because He is on my side, I do not have to fear human beings. He is more powerful than the nations with their sophisticated and powerful weapons of war.  My strength is not in my power or resources.  He is my strength now and always.…Read the rest of the article here: Psalm 118: Thanksgiving for Today’s Believer – Proclaim & Defend, or just listen to the podcast! Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

In today's session we are talking to Mark Swedberg, veteran missionary in Brazil. He wrote an article for our September/October FrontLine called "Revelation: When Does God's Wrath Begin?"What he is addressing is the challenge to the pretribulation rapture brought on by those who teach a "pre-wrath rapture" position. The article fits in to the FrontLine theme, "the Rapture," and it addresses a question that can challenge  Christians as they try to work through the details of many varied passages of prophecy.I should say the conversation did take us through some of those details and I hope you will stay with us to the end. I think Mark does a good job showing us how the pre-wrath rapture position just doesn't work. So join with us as we go step by step through this.As always, I want to remind you that paying subscribers to our substack will be able to read Mark's article right away. With a paid subscription to our substack, you will automatically get a subscription to the magazine. You can also subscribe just to the magazine through the FBFI website.For our paying subscribers, here is the full article: Revelation: When Does God’s Wrath Begin? (preview for everyone else). Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

It was news nationwide,The elders at Trinity Bible Church of Dallas announced this week that lead preacher Steven J. Lawson had been removed from all ministry responsibilities after he confessed to having an "inappropriate relationship" with a woman. This one was a shocker, and a deep disappointment to many in conservative evangelicalism and fundamentalism.  Lawson is the founder and President of OnePassion Ministries, and was a mentor of sorts to many who seek to exposit the word of God faithfully. His connections to Master’s Seminary, Ligonier Ministries, and Reformed Theological Seminary, and all the relationships that go with those connections made the pain run deep.Such failures (and none of us know the specifics) are not uncommon in ministry and are not exclusive to any camp of believing Christianity.  Some ministry philosophies make the temptations greater, but they are still great no matter the crowd with which a minister fellowships. On August 5, the NPR news station for North Texas ran an article entitled, Several North Texas pastors step down, removed from positions amid controversies.  The article title was kind.  Seven very prominent pastors in just the north Texas area had recently resigned.This is not a casting stones, blog.  Biblical, fundamentalist, Baptists have had their own share of failures.  However, the Lawson case reveals that the problem was deeper.  Steve Lawson was not actually the pastor of the church where he was the lead preacher.  He was not an elder at Trinity or even a member of the church!  Because of that, all the church could do when confronted by his impropriety was remove him from all ministry responsibilities. They could not perform any type of church discipline as commanded by the New Testament.  He was functioning as a sort of superstar regular guest preacher for the church.This brings up some important questions that we must address in the 21st-century Bible-believing church world.…Read the rest of the article here: Holding Pastors Accountable – Proclaim & Defendor just listen to the podcast!! Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

All the hype is over, all the counting is done—except for Arizona which will probably still be counting when the next election rolls around. How should we feel about what happened in the 2024 election?Most importantly we must remember that our hope is not in political candidates or in secular leaders.It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in princes. (Psalm 118:8-9)Praise the Lord, O my soul!While I live I will praise the Lord;I will sing praises to my God while I have my being.Do not put your trust in princes,Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no [c]help.His spirit departs, he returns to his earth;In that very day his plans perish. (Psalm 146:1-4)Our hope is in our Lord. That is true when the side we voted for wins AND when it loses. Unless Jesus Himself is on the ballot, we are always voting for the lesser of two evils—we are always protesting against the worst of the two options. So, this occasion for rejoicing should be a bit muted. We are not in the Kingdom yet.Reserved happiness.There is occasion for reserved happiness and thanksgiving for the mercies of God. The issues that matter most to conservative Christians were protected to some extent. There was a clear choice for religious freedom and freedom of speech. While neither side holds a biblical position on abortion or LGTBQ issues, one side does oppose boys using girls’ bathrooms and boys participating in girls’ sports. One side is less supportive of abortion than the other. Republicans favor school choice, which is significant for the Christian School and Homeschool movement. We must have affordable ways to opt out of the Satanic brainwashing that has taken over most of our public schools.…Read the rest of this post here: A Baptist, Fundamentalist, Election Post-MortemOr, just listen to the podcast! Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

I'm talking to some of our men who wrote articles for the September/October 2024 FrontLine magazine. The subject of the magazine was, "The Rapture."Some of our interviews are with authors dealing directly with the theme of the magazine, but for this interview, I want to do something a little different.In each issue of FrontLine we have a section called "the Pastor's Insert." It includes articles especially designed to be a help to pastors and Bible teachers. I thought I'd highlight that section by a chat with David Shumate, one of our leaders in the FBFI, who gave us some helpful comments on Balaam the pagan prophet who shows up in the book of Numbers.In addition to this brief article, Dave, as the chairman of our positions committee, is responsible for developing and publishing the Position Statements of the FBFI from time to time. In this issue of FrontLine we published our 2024 Position statements on two issues:* Christianity, Socialism, and Capitalism* GamblingDave talks about what we are trying to do with position statements and then discusses the rationale behind these two. I think you will find this discussion interesting.Before I bring Dave in, let me remind you that paying subscribers to our Substack will be able to read the Position Statements and the brief article on Balaam right away. With a paid subscription to our Substack, you will automatically get a subscription to the magazine. You can also subscribe just to the magazine… either way, we just want to build up our subscription base.Article: 2024 Position Statements and “Why Was God Angry at Balaam?”Related:See Podcast: Interview 15 – Gambling and the Bible           Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

If you have not mailed in your ballot already, go to the polls on Tuesday and cast your ballot. Do not let anything stop you. Wait in lines if necessary. Battle the weather, traffic, or whatever is necessary to get your ballot in.If true Christians would vote for their biblical values, we would live in a very different country today. Some Christians have biblical values but do not vote. Some Christians do not live or vote by biblical values. And some Christians have not been taught how their faith should impact their voting choices. These are the values that are at stake in this election.Vote for freedom of conscience.Our founding fathers sought a new land where they could worship according to their consciences. This was Paul’s longing as he instructed believers to pray for civic leaders.…For the rest of this post, see here: Christians, please vote! It is not too late to head to the polls. – Proclaim & Defend… or, just listen to the podcast! Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

I'm talking to some of our men who wrote articles for the September/October 2024 FrontLine magazine. The subject of the magazine was, "The Rapture." You'll want to get a copy and dig in to what our authors say.Today's guest is Michael Riley, pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Wakefield, Michigan. Mike is a frequent contributor to FrontLine and consequently a frequent guest on the podcast. His article had to do with Matthew 24, but we wanted to use his article as a "launching pad" for a discussion about hermeneutics and how we study the Bible.We all have presuppositions that influence our understanding of the Bible. Sometimes we have presuppositions that lead us to miss the point when we come to Bible passages. The struggle we have is trying to uphold a high view of inspiration (every word is God's word) and a proper humility when it comes to interpretation (I must let God's word speak correctly to me).Our discussion in the interview was very wide ranging. I think you will find it edifying, at least that is our hope!In the interview both Mike and I mentioned some outside resources that I'll provide links to in the show notes.Before I bring on Mike, let me remind you that paying subscribers to our substack will be able to read Mike's article on Matthew 24 right away. With a paid subscription to our substack, you will automatically get a subscription to the magazine. You can also subscribe just to the magazine… either way, we just want to build up our subscription base.Access to Michael’s article (preview for non-subscribers): The Rapture in Matthew 24Online Resources mentioned in the podcast:Sermon by David Martyn Lloyd-Jones: Introduction: A sermon on Ephesians 6:10 (mljtrust.org)Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Does Matthew 24 Describe the Rapture of the Church? (Part 1) - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Does Matthew 24 Describe the Rapture of the Church (Part 2)? - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Does Matthew 24 Describe the Rapture of the Church? (Part 3) - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Does Matthew 24 Describe the Rapture of the Church (Part 4) - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu)Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary Does Matthew 24 Describe the Rapture of the Church (Part 5)? - Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary (dbts.edu) Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe

Stop trying to negotiate with God!  Just stop it.People going through trials often respond to those trials by trying to negotiate with the Divine One.  This type of negotiation often arises from a lifestyle that is characterized by sin and disobedience to God.Let me first say that this discussion is about Christian living, it is not about how to become a Christian.  Becoming a Christian is by faith alone.  No amount of determined change can bring about the forgiveness and regeneration necessary for salvation.A young woman comes to faith in Jesus Christ through the witness of a co-worker.  She begins attending church and growing in the faith.  She attends Bible Studies, gives up addictive habits, and even changes the way she dresses and behaves.  She does all of this, not out of compulsion, but because she truly is led by the Spirit and believes it is honoring God.  However, she is living with her boyfriend and has been doing so for many years.  They are not married buyown a house together, share expenses, and are faithful to one another.  She truly loves him, and she is convinced that he loves her. He shows no interest in the gospel and says that he is fine with her being religious but he wants no part of it.  Understandably, she desperately wants God to save him.  She refuses to leave this domestic situation hoping that God will change her boyfriend’s heart.  Then she can live obediently to God and with her loved one at the same time.Without really understanding it, she has entered into a negotiation with God.  “If you save my boyfriend, then I will not commit sexual sin anymore.”  While churches and Christian workers have to prayerfully and patiently help people through these agonizing choices, we do have to remember that sin is still sin and that God does not give out indulgences if we give him most of everything else.…Read the rest of this post here: Why Negotiating with God Does Not Work – Proclaim & DefendOr just listen to the podcast. Get full access to the Proclaim & Defend Podcast at proclaimdefend.substack.com/subscribe