Ep 188 Relational Life Therapy with Shane Birkel.

Zach continues his conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Shannon Curry for a vulnerable and intellectually engaging conversation that blends personal storytelling, relationship science, and unexpected insight. Shannon opens up about how her own relationship defied her expectations, thanks to what she learned from psychologist Tai Tashiro’s research on the three personality traits that lead to lasting happiness. They dive into what it means to choose a partner based on substance over spark, how grief and trauma can shape family planning decisions, and why admiration—not just chemistry—can sustain love. Shannon also shares her deeply personal journey of caring for her father through dementia and how it’s connected to her professional values and sense of purpose. This episode is rich with real-life honesty, expert-backed wisdom, and the kind of reflective conversation that stays with you long after the final minute. Key Takeaways The Three Relationship Traits That Matter Most: According to Tai Tashiro’s research, conscientiousness, low neuroticism, and moderate adventurousness are better predictors of lasting relationship satisfaction than looks or wealth. Choosing the Right Kind of Chemistry: True intimacy often comes from admiration and emotional safety, not physical attraction alone. Love Without Children: Shannon shares why she and her husband Ty are "childless by choice" and how past grief shaped that decision. Caregiving as Sacred Work: Shannon reflects on caring for her father through dementia and how her training as a psychologist helps her meet his needs with dignity and compassion. Letting Go of the Checklist: Her personal love story challenges societal norms around partner selection and encourages listeners to rethink what really leads to long-term happiness. Guest Info Dr. Shannon Curry Clinical and forensic psychologist Founder of Curry Psychology Group Certified in the Gottman Method High-profile expert witness and advocate for healthy relationships @currypsychgroup on Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Previously available only to our Patreon supporters, this special episode of So I Married a Relationship Expert is now being released to the full Marriage Therapy Radio audience. In this candid and heartfelt conversation, Zach interviews his longtime co-host, Laura Heck, and her husband, Ryan Heck, to explore what it’s really like to be married to a relationship expert. You’ll hear honest reflections, unexpected challenges, and plenty of humor as they open up about the reality behind the podcast mic. Laura and Ryan talk about how therapy shaped (and sometimes complicated) their dynamic, what they’ve learned about conflict and connection over the years, and how their relationship continues to grow. It’s real, it’s vulnerable, and it’s full of insights that any couple, expert or not, can relate to. This is real life, not a therapy room: Laura explains how her skills as a therapist don’t always transfer cleanly into her marriage. Conflict isn’t failure: Ryan shares how he used to fear that fighting meant something was wrong, and how he’s redefined that belief. Growth takes time (and patience): Both Laura and Ryan open up about how emotional literacy didn’t come naturally, and still requires practice. Connection over perfection: A recurring theme in the conversation is letting go of being right or perfectly understood, and focusing instead on meaningful connection. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Baya Voce and Emmy Bush to talk about falling in love hard and fast, hitting a wall after the wedding, and what it takes to rebuild a relationship rooted in honesty, health, and play. The couple, known for their wildly creative wedding (think Burning Man meets RuPaul meets adult summer camp), dive deep into what really happened once the party ended. They speak candidly about the emotional fallout after getting married, the surprising way attachment systems get triggered by commitment, and how chronic health issues nearly broke them. What followed was not a breakup—but a rebuilding. One that required therapy, nervous system repair, personal accountability, and a whole lot of humor. Baya and Emmy don’t just offer advice—they embody a kind of radical relational creativity. You’ll hear about their cake competitions, their “Spock Mind Meld” reconnection rituals, and their profound respect for giving each other freedom inside commitment. Key Takeaways Commitment Triggers the Nervous SystemGetting married activated their attachment systems in a new way, challenging their sense of freedom and safety. This is a common but under-discussed phenomenon in newlyweds. Health Impacts ConflictPost-wedding, Emmy’s health deteriorated due to mold toxicity, and Baya’s stress response was in overdrive. Their physical states made emotional regulation nearly impossible, leading to what they called “nothing burgers” turning into huge fights. Processing Isn’t Always the AnswerDespite being a therapist and being in therapy, they realized their go-to relationship tools (like deep processing) weren’t what the relationship needed. What it needed was play, softness, and space. Staying = GrowingThey describe “packing their bags but never leaving,” demonstrating that staying through the hard parts gave them the space to evolve as individuals and as a couple. The Relationship Is Its Own EntityInspired by their mentor, Baya describes how the relationship has its own needs, separate from individual preferences. Honoring those needs became the key to rebuilding trust and connection. Guest Socials https://www.instagram.com/baya_voce/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach is joined by Darren and LaVerna Wilk to explore the journey of maintaining a thriving marriage through the transitions of parenting, fostering, and embracing the empty nest phase. With over 35 years of marriage and five daughters, they share insights on shifting from parenting to partnership, cultivating friendship, and keeping their relationship adventurous. They discuss planning intentional "midlife crises" to infuse novelty into their marriage, the importance of repair as a core practice, and how prioritizing their relationship has strengthened their family. Their experiences as foster parents and therapists provide a unique perspective on building resilience and connection in long-term relationships.Best Marriages Key Takeaways Embracing the Empty Nest: LaVerna reflects on finding joy and predictability in an empty house, and how her relationships with her daughters have flourished as they gained independence. Intentional Midlife Adventures: The Wilks share how planning shared adventures, like off-road Jeep trips, has brought excitement and growth to their marriage. The Power of Repair: They emphasize that conflict resolution is about building the muscle of repair, trusting that they can return to and resolve issues when ready. Marriage as the Foundation: Prioritizing their marriage, even when it meant disappointing their children, has been key to their enduring partnership. Reconnection Rituals: After time apart, they use intentional rituals to reconnect and realign emotionally, ensuring their bond remains strong. Darren Wilk, R.C.C., M.A., C.G.T. and LaVerna Wilk, R.C.C., M.C., C.G.T. Co-founders of Best Marriages Certified Gottman Therapist and Advanced Trainer Best Marriages Couples counseling center based in Langley, BC Offers Gottman Method therapy, workshops, and intensive sessions Visit Best Marriages Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this concluding episode of the guest-host series, Desirae Ysasi and Zach dive into the art of reparenting, integration, and communication in relationships. They explore what it means to revisit your childhood self while also allowing your younger self to guide you through present challenges. Desirae opens up about the overwhelm of parenting through work stress, sharing how her daughter’s recent emotional outburst became a mirror for her own emotional state. Zach reflects on a recent conference experience, the power of being seen by your partner, and how receiving feedback can sometimes feel like being put under a microscope. They also discuss the five winning strategies for building intimacy, from speaking to make things better to cherishing what you have. Desirae explains her concept of “history-colored glasses,” a powerful metaphor for how our past influences our present reactions. Whether you’re struggling to communicate or trying to feel more connected to yourself and your partner, this episode is full of practical, reflective insights. Key Takeaways Reparenting the Inner Child Desirae explains that reparenting is about becoming the parent you needed as a child, addressing unresolved wounds, and learning to provide yourself with the nurturing and validation you may have missed. History-Colored Glasses The way we see the world is deeply influenced by our past experiences. If you grew up around loving, joyful yelling, loud voices will feel warm. If yelling was traumatic, it will feel threatening. The challenge is to rewrite those old scripts. Learning to Speak to Make Things Better Desirae emphasizes that many of us speak to unload or defend, not to improve the relationship dynamic. Shifting to a “speak to make things better” mindset can completely alter the tone of conflict. Cherishing as a Practice of Receiving Cherishing isn’t just about giving love—it’s also about receiving it. Desirae explains that learning to accept even small gestures from your partner can be just as transformative as grand gestures. Integration: Bringing All Parts of Yourself to the Table Zach reflects on his own experience of feeling fragmented, wondering how to integrate all parts of himself rather than prioritizing certain aspects and neglecting others. Desirae affirms that all parts have a place, even the wounded, anxious, or insecure ones. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach and Desirae Ysasi pick up where they left off—diving deep into the intersections of race, identity, privilege, and emotional intimacy in relationships and therapy spaces. What unfolds is a profoundly honest and vulnerable conversation about belonging, the emotional labor of marginalized people, and what it means to truly listen and connect across differences. Desirae shares how her lived experience as a Mexican-American woman shapes her approach to relationships, while Zach opens up about grappling with his identity as a white man raised with privilege. The episode becomes a model of real-time learning and mutual respect, grounded in curiosity and humility. This is more than just a conversation about culture—it’s about how we show up for each other with compassion, honesty, and a willingness to grow. Key Takeaways  Curiosity Over CertaintyZach and Desirae reflect on the importance of asking questions to understand, not to correct. True connection comes from being willing to sit in uncertainty and learn from others' lived experiences.  Self-Esteem as a Spiritual ConceptDesirae explains that healthy intimacy requires healthy self-esteem—and for many marginalized people, self-worth must be cultivated not from the culture around them, but from a deep spiritual sense of belonging and worthiness.  Therapists are Still Learning, TooZach shares a story about unintentionally alienating a client and asks how to be better. Desirae responds with grace and clarity.  Navigating Marriage in a Marginalized BodyDesirae speaks powerfully about what it means to build intimacy in a world that has long devalued your body, identity, and culture. Even with all the right tools, trauma and oppression create layers that take time and care to unwind. Guest Link ysasicounseling.com Based in San Antonio, TX Specializes in couples therapy, cultural identity, and relational healing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach welcomes Desirae Ysasi for her first appearance as a guest co-host—and what unfolds is a warm, insightful, and occasionally awkward conversation about parenting, marriage, culture, and therapist life. From Desirae’s daughter offering podcast advice (“don’t be weird”) to Zach’s reflections on parenting adult children, the two therapists pull back the curtain on their real lives. They explore how therapists experience their own relationships, what it means to “cherish” your partner, and why Desirae believes couples can still struggle with conflict even when they have all the tools. Their honesty and laughter make space for listeners to reflect on their own relationships—not from a place of performance, but of grace, learning, and genuine care. This episode is the first of a three-part series with Desirae, and it sets the tone beautifully: smart, soulful, and full of moments that might just help you feel softer toward yourself or your partner. Key Takeaways You Can Know the Tools and Still StruggleDesirae reveals that even as a couples therapist, conflict in her marriage doesn’t always look pretty—but what makes the difference is how she and her husband repair. Cherishing as a Daily PracticeCherishing isn’t about grand romantic gestures. It’s about making sure your partner has tangible access to your love and affection—in everyday moments, through small actions. Conflict Isn’t the Problem—Disconnection IsDesirae shares that the hardest part of conflict is not being able to be generous. What matters is not just the argument, but whether you can still be open, kind, and connected during hard moments. Therapists are People, TooThe episode normalizes that even people trained to guide others through relationships have messy, human partnerships of their own—and that’s part of what makes the work so honest. Guest Link ysasicounseling.com Based in San Antonio, TX Specializes in couples therapy, trauma, and relational healing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach sits down with Krystal and Dedric Polite, real estate entrepreneurs, parents, and partners who built their marriage and business with vision, honesty, and hustle. Known for their HGTV show and business Be Polite Properties, the Polites take listeners behind the scenes of their relationship — from their first date (which felt more like an interview) to their evolving partnership as co-parents and business owners. Krystal and Dedric share how intentionality, therapy, and shared values laid the foundation for their long-term success. Krystal’s bold, upfront approach is met with Dedric’s easygoing warmth, and together, they show how different strengths can complement each other when grounded in trust and aligned purpose. They talk about therapy, parenting, building generational wealth, and how they support each other’s dreams—and why Krystal believes “you have to find out early if your partner is a teammate or an opponent.” Key Takeaways Start How You Want to Finish Krystal approached their very first date with intentionality—talking credit scores, life goals, and values—because she knew she didn’t want to wait years to get to the heart of a relationship. Therapy From the Beginning Two months into their relationship, Krystal insisted on couples therapy—something Dedric initially resisted, but now credits as a major reason they’ve stayed strong. Teammates, Not Opponents Their philosophy of marriage centers on being on the same team. Krystal explains how many couples are unknowingly married to their opponent—and how to avoid that trap early. Unlearning “Too Much Strength” Raised by strong single mothers, both Krystal and Dedric had to unlearn old patterns—Krystal admits it took years to allow Dedric to help with parenting, and Dedric had to learn not to emotionally shut down. Support Each Other’s Dreams Their real estate business was Dedric’s dream—Krystal helped launch it. Their trampoline park franchise? That’s Krystal’s dream—and now Dedric is all in. Guest Links @bepoliteproperties HGTV’s 50/50 Flip (Krystal & Dedric’s show) bepoliteproperties.com (for speaking, investing, and media inquiries) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this vulnerable and powerful episode, Zach is joined by Tarah and EJ Kerwin, a married therapist duo and co-founders of Relationship Renovation, a counseling center and podcast dedicated to helping couples reconnect and rebuild. With honesty, warmth, and even some tears, Tarah and EJ take us behind the scenes of their own marriage—from honeymoon bliss to total overwhelm, from avoidance and trauma to healing and deep emotional presence. They share how the birth of their twins shifted their entire dynamic, how ketamine-assisted therapy helped Tarah reconnect with forgotten trauma, and how they both committed to doing the inner work to stay together, grow together, and model safety for their blended family. This episode is a window into the real, raw, and redemptive process of building a resilient marriage, even when both partners are therapists. Key Takeaways The Before & After of Parenting Going from 0 to 4 kids (including twins with colic) rocked their nervous systems—and their connection. The honeymoon phase disappeared overnight, and they had to rebuild their emotional infrastructure from scratch. Healing Through Ketamine Therapy A supervised ketamine protocol opened the door for deep trauma processing, revealing forgotten abuse and emotional blockages. It became a turning point for compassion, communication, and reconnection in their marriage. Authenticity Over Perfection As therapists, they felt pressure to “walk the talk,” but real healing came when they dropped the performance and embraced their own messy growth. “The best marriages aren’t perfect—they’re honest and evolving.” Relearning Safety Together Tarah’s trauma responses affected their intimacy and communication, and EJ had to learn not to retreat during conflict. Over time, they created a marriage where all parts of themselves could show up and be seen. The Power of Staying Instead of giving up, they chose to double down—on themselves, their love, and their mission to help others. Their counseling center now helps hundreds of couples every week, born from the lessons of their hardest moments. Guest Info Tarah & EJ Kerwin Podcast: Relationship Renovation Website: relationshiprenovation.com Instagram: @relationship.renovation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach is joined by Dr. Brenna and Edmund Squires, a Florida-based couple navigating the complexities of marriage, faith, and long-term infertility. Married for nine years, Brenna—a psychologist and wellness consultant—and Edmund—a military veteran—share how their relationship has been shaped by both deep love and hard-fought resilience. Their conversation explores the emotional toll of unexplained infertility, how they’ve learned to support each other through grief and disappointment, and the importance of prioritizing their marriage above all else. They also discuss their faith and the role it plays in their decisions, and they open up about maintaining intimacy during a prolonged fertility journey—introducing the term "deliberate spontaneity" as a way to keep connection alive even amid stress. Whether you're navigating your own fertility challenges or simply working to grow stronger together, this episode is full of vulnerability, wisdom, and hope. Key Takeaways Infertility Is a Couple’s Issue, Not Just One Partner’s Burden Initially, Brenna bore the brunt of testing and treatment. They had a breakthrough moment where they decided to re-center as a team—emotionally, physically, and spiritually. "Deliberate Spontaneity" in the Bedroom Trying to conceive can quickly turn sex into a chore. They’ve adapted by planning spontaneity—romanticizing required intimacy so it stays emotionally fulfilling and connected. Open Communication as an Anchor Long conversations, emotional check-ins, and apologies are core practices in their marriage. Brenna's mental health training adds insight, but it's mutual vulnerability that creates safety and closeness. Supporting Others Through Their Story Out of their own experience, Brenna and Edmund have launched monthly webinars and resources for couples navigating infertility. Their goal: help couples strengthen their relationship first, so they’re not starting their family journey from a place of disconnect. Learn more about Dr. Brenna and Edmond Squires at https://www.encourageandempowerwellness.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices