231. - The God of Friday - A Conversation with Patrick Mason

This week, we’re going to share what we think was an “instant classic” from last week’s Restore Gathering; a deeply personal and thought-provoking message about family, faith, and the complexity of life from Joseph Grenny, author of Crucial Conversations and co-founder of many organizations, including The Other Side Academy, Drawing from his own experience with his own “messy” family, Joseph speaks openly about moments of despair, including the heartache of watching loved ones, including his own children, struggle with addiction, estrangement, and other crises.But at the heart of his message is a radical idea: that the phrase "All is well" can be true even in the face of chaos and imperfection. He challenges the traditional "brochure" image of family success, reminding us that not even the families in our sacred texts had it all together. Through powerful stories of redemption, both from his own family and the lives transformed at The Other Side Academy, Joseph encourages us to rethink what it means to succeed as families, and to embrace waiting as part of God’s divine work.We think this conversation will resonate deeply with anyone who has felt the pain of seeing a loved one struggle, and we hope it offers both comfort and inspiration. We loved seeing many of you at Restore and wanted to give a little taste of it to those that weren’t able to attend. So with that, we’ll pass it over to Joseph Grenny.

Today is the start of this year’s Restore! We look forward to seeing those of you who are attending! This week we’re departing from our normal format and sharing a recent conversation of the MormonLand podcast, between the Salt Lake Tribune’s Peggy Fletcher Stack and David Noyce and our executive director, Zach Davis. The conversation focused on the origin and vision of Faith Matters, the questions we are wrestling with, and what to expect at this year’s Restore. We think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation and with that we’ll hand things over to Peggy, David and Zach.

This week, we’re sitting down with our good friend Patrick Mason for a conversation that is as deeply challenging. Patrick recently returned from a transformative trip to Rwanda, where he was confronted with the enduring impact of the 1994 genocide. In our discussion, Patrick shares his reflections on witnessing both the unimaginable horrors of the past and the remarkable steps toward reconciliation and peace that are happening today.We also dive into the hard questions: Where is God in the midst of such suffering? How can communities possibly recover from such deep wounds? And how do we respond to scripture that seems to contradict our understanding of a loving God? Patrick draws on his experience as a peacebuilder, scholar, and a person of faith to address these issues, and we explore how the lessons from Rwanda resonate with us here and now in conflicts within our own communities.This conversation is a compelling reminder that each of us has the power to create real change in our own communities, and it urges us to confront the urgent need for peacebuilding in a world increasingly divided. Lastly, we’re thrilled to share that Patrick will be speaking at the upcoming Restore conference along with his co-host for the Proclaim Peace Podcast, Jennifer Walker Thomas. You can get your tickets at faithmatters.org/restore to join us on September 5-7th. And with that, we'll jump right in. I also wanted to mention that Patrick wrote about his experience in Rwanda for the Faith Matters magazine, Wayfare. You can go to wayfaremagazine.org to subscribe. And with that we'll jump right in.

This week, we’re thrilled to be joined by our friend, David Butler. You may know David from his incredible podcast, Don’t Miss This, where he and Grace Freeman dive deeply into the scriptures with an infectious joy and thoughtful insights. We’re so excited to have David here in the studio, and even more excited that he’ll be joining us at Restore in just a few weeks.In this conversation, David helps us explore one of the biggest faith questions: what is the nature of God? So many of us have experienced moments of discomfort or confusion when encountering challenging or unsettling stories in scripture. David introduces us to what he calls "cross vision"—a way of reading scripture that filters everything through the lens of Jesus on the cross, which David sees as the ultimate expression of God's love and character. He uses this as a guiding principle, his "measuring stick," to interpret difficult or troubling passages. When a story seems to contradict the image of a loving, self-sacrificing God, David explains, with heartfelt vulnerability, how and why he feels empowered to question and wrestle with those narratives.He also opens up about the experiences that have shaped his faith and the ways that engaging with other religious traditions has opened his eyes to new dimensions of God’s love and presence in the world. (By the way, David has a super fascinating course available on don'tmissthisstudy.com called Holy Envy that I highly recommend if this topic interests you!)Whether you're wrestling with tough questions about faith or looking for new ways to see God in our holy books, we think this episode will give you some powerful insights. If you want to see David Butler live this year at Restore, go to faithmatters.org/Restore for tickets. And with that, we'll jump right in. 

Today, we’re thrilled to welcome Mallory Everton–a comedian, actor, and writer–and Diana Brown–the new Associate Director for Faith Matters, to the podcast. We’re diving into a conversation that’s often overlooked but so important—being single in the church. Diana and Mallory are launching a new podcast on the Faith Matters Podcast Network called The Soloists, where they’ll be talking about singleness and relationships, and what it's like trying to form families in today’s cultural and technological environment and we couldn’t be more excited to celebrate it with them.In this episode, we explore why they’ve dedicated so much energy to this project. As they discuss, being single can be an isolating experience, especially in a culture that often views marriage as the ultimate milestone. Diana and Mallory share deeply personal stories about what it’s like to navigate a church community where singleness sometimes feels like a problem to be solved rather than a valid and whole way of being, and season or situation of life that all of us, no matter our marital status, can authentically relate to in some way.They also challenge us to rethink our assumptions about singleness. They point out that being single isn’t just a transitory state—it’s a real and meaningful part of life for so many people; more than half of the adult members of the church, in fact, according to Elder Gong in '21. We discuss how important it is to move beyond the idea that marriage is the only path to fulfillment and how embracing singleness can lead to profound spiritual growth.Diana and Mallory bring a wealth of wisdom to this conversation, and their insights will resonate with anyone who’s felt the pressure to fit into a specific life narrative. This episode is a powerful reminder that each of us is on a unique journey, and that there’s deep value in every stage of life, whether single, married, or somewhere in between.Also, we are excited to be hosting Mallory and Diana at Restore this year! They’ll be speaking about the unique spiritual gifts that singles bring to the body of Christ. Restore will be held September 5-7 at the Mt. America Expo Center in Sandy, Utah and this year for the first time, we'll also be offering a streaming option if you won’t be able to attend in person and would like to purchase a ticket to attend virtually. You can buy your tickets at faithmatters.org/restore. We hope this conversation encourages you to see singleness—and all life paths—with fresh eyes. And with that, we’ll jump right into our discussion with Diana and Mallory.

This week, we're thrilled to welcome back Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife, a renowned therapist specializing in relationship and sexuality counseling within the Latter-day Saint community. We’re super excited that Jennifer has a new book coming out this year that Faith Matters is publishing, and she’ll also be joining us in person soon for Restore.In our conversation, we explore some of the early themes from Jennifer’s book, including the shift many couples experience from passion to duty in marriage. Jennifer shares some powerful stories and experiences based on what she’s seen in her work with couples, including how common cultural narratives among religious people can diminish what Jennifer calls the "magnetic energy of Eros" in relationships.We dive into the concept of Eros as a divine longing for deeper connection, not just sexual, but spiritual and personal. This Eros energy, for Jennifer is the the energy of adventure, attraction, agency, and feeling fully alive. To rekindle that Eros energy in lives and relationships, Jennifer emphasizes the importance of honest communication, vulnerability, and personal integrity. She offers profound insights on how to face our fears and embrace the uncertainties of life and love.This conversation is packed with practical advice and fresh perspectives that can help anyone deepen their relationships and personal growth. We’re incredibly grateful for Jennifer's wisdom and are really looking forward to her book's release. Now, let's jump into our conversation with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife.

This week, we are re-releasing a conversation with Pete Davis. In 2018, Pete Davis was graduating from Harvard Law School and was chosen to give a commencement address that ended up going unexpectedly viral, having now been viewed over 30 million times.The thesis of Pete’s speech was that our culture has entered what he calls “infinite browsing mode”—with so many options to choose from, and devices that present those options to us literally endlessly—we can become paralyzed by choice and inadvertently live out our lives without ever dedicating ourselves to something. And this lack of choosing and committing over the long haul has real consequences, Pete argues — it prevents us from finding the meaning and impact that we’re longing for.Pete’s ideas eventually crystallized into a really incredible book—Dedicated—which explores these ideas in depth. We loved this book and found it to be so relevant to conversations we seem to always be having. In this conversation, we were able to talk with Pete about many of the reasons we might fear committing to something, including the fear of missing out, the fear of regret, and the fear of association with something with which our values aren’t totally aligned. But, Pete argues, commitment in the face of those fears is what leads us to long-term purpose and impact, real community, and connection with something truly transcendent.We can’t emphasize enough how important and relevant we found this book, and how infectious we found Pete’s enthusiasm for these deeply resonant ideas. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we did. And, we have exciting news to share– Pete Davis will be coming to Utah as one of our featured speakers at Restore! So go to faithmatters/org/restore for tickets and we’ll see you on September 5-7 at Mountain America Expo in Sandy, Utah. 

Today, we’re sharing a beautiful conversation between writer and thinker Elizabeth Oldfield and Zachary Davis. Elizabeth is the author of Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times and host of the podcast, “Sacred”. Elizabeth grew up in a faintly Christian home that rarely if ever spoke of God; But as a young teen she had a powerful and unmistakable answer to prayer that made her a believer. She then turned to the Bible to learn more about her newfound christian faith and was blindsided by ideas in the text that she found troubling. So in this conversation, Elizabeth talks about her complex faith-  how she learned to lean into the messy paradoxes of life since then. She explores the concept of sin and the 7 deadly sins. She asks, what can envy teach us about having a stable sense of self especially in this age of social media? And isn't acedia or sloth, the 8th deadly sin, really about attention? How can we continually recall our attention to the things we hope will shape our souls?She points out that at the end of the day, the 7 deadly sins aren't a legalistic list of ways to be in debt to go, but a loving guide for how to be in right relationship with the people around us, and should always be inseparably connected to ideas like compassion, forgiveness, and restoration.We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we did. And, we have exciting news to share– Elizabeth Oldfied will be coming to Utah as one of our featured speakers at Restore! So go to faithmatters/org/restore for tickets and we’ll see you on September 5-7 at Mountain America Expo in Sandy, Utah. And with that, we’ll jump right in. 

This week, we're bringing you a special episode with Brian Mclaren on his new book, Life after Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart. Though we recorded this conversation weeks ago, it feels especially timely now in light of the horrific violence we witnessed this last weekend in the attempt on former President Trump's life, the deadly heat waves and hurricanes happening across the world, and so much else.  This book is an empowering call to action and an invitation to do the kind of inner work that makes us brave in the face of real fear and uncertainty. Brian asks, "What if it doesn't turn out? How will we face the future if things get worse instead of better?" He offers gentle encouragement to reach deeper into ourselves and find a stronger, more resilient type of hope: the kind that, as Václav Havel said, “is not the certainty that things will turn out as we wish, [but] is the conviction that some things are worth doing, no matter how they turn out.”Brian's insights challenged us to rethink our understanding of end-times, to explore what is worth doing no matter what, and to see the concept of chosenness not as a privilege for a select few, but as a call to loving service for all. For those of you who have heard Brian before, you already know you're in for a treat. For those who haven't, Brian is a former pastor turned author and public theologian. He's a truly special teacher and someone who's affected the way we live in lasting ways. He seems to see the world and everything in it through the eyes of a "mystic"—in its real interconnectedness and deep spiritual beauty. We're incredibly grateful he came back on the show, and you can find out more about Brian on his website at brianmclaren.net.We think this episode offers real wisdom and a fresh perspective on how we can navigate these challenging times with faith, hope, and love. And with that, we'll jump right into our conversation with Brian McLaren.

Today, we're resharing an interview we loved with Astrid Tuminez, who we're excited to be hosting as a speaker at Restore this year. Astrid is the President of Utah Valley University and an absolute delight to talk with and listen to. She’s full of stories, humor, and deep insights that made our time with her pass way too quickly.This interview actually came about because Astrid wrote an essay in Melissa Inouye and Kate Holbrook’s new book Every Needful Thing. We loved Astrid’s essay and knew we wanted to get to know her better.Astrid has an absolutely fascinating and unique story. She grew up in the slums of the Philippines, but along with her siblings, was discovered to have an exceedingly bright intellect and was offered a free place at one of the most prestigious and expensive Catholic schools in the area. As a child, she was, religiously, a Catholic, but felt that she was always brimming with questions that were being hushed. When she eventually met the Latter-day Saint missionaries, it was a different experience — they gave her a new framework to think about the world, and weren’t afraid to at least try to answer her questions.Astrid’s pursuit of education eventually took her to the United States, where she graduated summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree in international relations and Russian literature from Brigham Young University. She later earned a master's degree from Harvard University in Soviet Studies and a Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in political science. Before becoming President of UVU, Astrid spent many years in leadership in the corporate, non-profit, and academic worlds.What we maybe loved most about Astrid was that her unique perspectives make the world of faith and intellect seem expansive, exciting, and adventurous — even full of mystery. She’s found spiritual insight and even practice well outside of Mormonism while simultaneously keeping that “fixed foot,” in the Restored Gospel. In a real way, she’s living Joseph Smith’s injunction to “receive truth, let it come from whence it may.”We want to send Astrid a huge thanks for coming on the show, and we really think you’re going to love this one. And with that, we’ll jump right in.