230. Infinite Ways to God - A Conversation with David Butler

Today, we're bringing you a special episode recorded live from the Restore gathering, where we were joined by Jared Halverson. Jared, who’s become a familiar voice to many of us here, spoke on what he calls “contraries” or paradoxes that are inherent in a life of faith. His message felt like a breath of fresh air and especially timely.He offers the powerful image of the cross as a symbol of wholeness in our discipleship. One axis, reaching vertically, represents our connection to God, while the horizontal beam represents the love and care we extend outward to embrace those around us. True discipleship, Jared explained, is this centerpoint. It requires both beams—it's a deep grounding in God that inspires us to reach out in love to others.  And so, in this election week, Jared’s session feels like an invitation to love our neighbor. He boldly reminds us that the means matter, that "being right with God, does not justify being wrong with other people." So rather than allowing our differences to create distance, he challenges us to see the ways that truth is found in the tension of the paradox. This “both-and” approach allows us to see each other more fully and generously, creating connection that transcends our differences and reflects god's love.We’re so grateful for Jared’s wisdom in this session, and we hope his message helps you feel connected and inspired this week. 

Tyler Johnson is intimately familiar with suffering. He’s an oncologist who has sat with countless people in some of the most difficult moments of their lives, and in the final moments before their deaths. He’s been there as people have received life-changing news, and as they’ve grappled with their deepest questions: “What has my life meant? What should I prioritize if my time is limited? Have I given enough attention to what truly matters?”It’s that perspective that Tyler brings to the project we brought him on to talk about: a new book, published by Deseret Book, called When Church is Hard. In addition to his work as an oncologist, Tyler has been a bishop who has worked with many who have found their experience at church, for any of a number of reasons, deeply hard. And in a way that we feel like he is uniquely qualified to do, Tyler has approached both of these situations with the type of response they both call for: listening, validation, empathy, and humbly-offered insight.In our conversation with him, we explored how doubt and uncertainty, rather than being a flaw or something to "fix," can be a natural part of faith that leads to deeper growth and integrity. We also explored the parallels between the existential questions his patients face and those that arise during faith crises —and how both might invite us to re-evaluate priorities in a way we couldn’t otherwise. And finally, we looked at what belonging looks like, on both sides, when someone is sitting in pain and perplexity.For anyone who is feeling like this part of their faith journey is just hard, or has a loved one feeling this way, we really think this conversation is for you. Tyler’s a deeply thoughtful and empathetic person, and we loved talking with him. 

We’re excited to share something special with you. Today we're featuring an episode from the Proclaim Peace Podcast because we were so touched by this powerful conversation that feels especially meaningful right now—with an election right around the corner. In this episode, Patrick Mason, Jennifer Thomas, and their guest Thomas McConkie, explore how meaningful action doesn't come from this energy of frantic box-checking or a striving for perfection, but from a heart transformed by grace. Instead of trying to engineer a life of perfection to earn grace, grace comes first- it changes us from the inside—and the goodness that follows, flows naturally. As Thomas puts it, “It’s a sequencing problem.” Reflecting on the story of Alma, they explore how prioritizing this spiritual inner work can help us align with love and find deep peace that can become both the fuel and the foundation of the meaningful work we do in the world. This conversation is full of insight and encouragement, and we're so excited for you to hear it. And with that, here’s Proclaimed Peace with Jennifer Thomas, Patrick Mason, and Thomas McConkie.Join Thomas McConkie for a 3-Day retreat—Becoming One—on December 5-7th, 2024 in Salt Lake City. Learn more and register here.

This week, we’re honored to welcome Arthur Brooks to the podcast. Arthur is a renowned social scientist, Harvard professor, and bestselling author, and we’re excited to talk with him about his latest book, Build the Life You Want, which he co-authored with Oprah Winfrey.In our conversation, Arthur offers some profound insights on happiness, emphasizing that though genetics and circumstances influence our baseline, we have significant agency over our happiness. It's a skill we can practice and improve. He says that happiness isn’t about avoiding suffering and he shares how negative emotions can actually serve as signals that help us grow.This episode is full of advice for creating a life of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. and lots of practical tips for exactly what to do when you are feeling overwhelmed by negative feelings. We’re so grateful to Arthur for joining us. We think you’ll find his insights on happiness and purpose inspiring and practical. So with that, let’s jump into our conversation with Arthur Brooks.

In today’s episode, we’re talking with Dr. Jennifer Thomas, co-authored with Gary Chapman of The 5 Apology Languages: The Secret to Healthy Relationships. Dr. Thomas's work builds on the framework of the 5 Love Languages and offers a profound new lens for how we give and receive apologies. If you’ve ever felt like you’ve said “I’m sorry” but it didn’t quite land, or if you’ve been on the receiving end of an apology that didn’t feel satisfying, this conversation is going to hit home.In this discussion Dr. Thomas talks about how often an apology can go unheard or feel insincere—not because you don’t mean it, but because you’re not speaking the other person’s “apology language.”Just like love, apologies aren’t one-size-fits-all. Her work work explores the psychology behind why some apologies fail to resonate, even when they seem heartfelt. Through extensive research, she and her co-author, Dr. Gary Chapman, identified five distinct “apology languages,” Each reflecting different emotional and cognitive needs that may need to be addressed for an apology to be effective. This episode is full of practical advice on how to express a heartfelt apology that truly communicates "I'm sorry" in a way that others can receive and feel. It will help you recognize what you need. These tools and insights will provide a powerful path restoring connection and healing relationships.We’re so excited to share this conversation with you, and we hope it sparks some of the same deep insights it did for us. And with that, let’s jump into our conversation with Dr. Jennifer Thomas.

This week, we’re sharing a beautiful and timely conversation between Faith Matters’ executive director Zach Davis and Andrew Hanauer, the founder and CEO of the One America Movement, an organization that helps faith leaders fight toxic polarization. In this conversation, Andrew and Zach discuss the causes behind the rise in polarization, the way political tribalism can become a false idol, and the imperative of truly following Jesus’ call to “love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” Andrew encourages us to see that our calling as disciples of Jesus is to follow his example and transform conflict through love.We hope you enjoy this episode and with that, we’ll hand it over to Zach. 

For today’s episode, we’re bringing you another powerful moment from our Restore gathering. Eboo Patel joined us to explore a compelling and deeply hopeful vision for what it means to build a loving, spiritually rich community where different faiths come together to form the foundation of a stronger, more united whole. Eboo challenges us to live our faiths in ways that not only elevate ourselves but lift others, creating bonds that bridge divides and bring healing to our world.Eboo, an Ismaili Muslim, is the founder and president of Interfaith America, an organization dedicated to fostering cooperation across religious traditions.Drawing on decades of experience and inspired by President Russell M. Nelson’s call for peacemaking, Eboo invites us to see how our diverse spiritual practices can serve as bridges, connecting us in powerful and meaningful ways. He shares that peacemaking is both a choice and a skill, requiring us to engage deeply and intentionally with one another.Using the beautiful metaphor of a potluck dinner, he reminds us: "Do not hide your light. Do not stop bringing your distinctive dish to the table. A potluck is a place where everyone’s contributions matter." This episode is about how we can actively build relationships, cooperate across differences, and create something richer together than any of us could alone. Faith Matters intends to be more and more at the center of these kinds of interfaith collaborations. We hope this conversation inspires you to reflect on your own role in creating a compassionate, connected community. And with that, we’ll pass it over to Eboo Patel at Restore.

We have decided to share with you  2-3 sessions from our recent Restore gathering to give you a taste of what took place during this amazing weekend. Last week we shared Joseph Grenny’s incredible message. It was an instant classic. . Today, we’re honored to bring you another really special moment from Restore. In a powerful, unflinching, and faithful presentation, our friend and community leader Neylan McBaine addressed an “elephant in the room” that so often goes unnamed: our experience with patriarchy in our faith communities. We think it’s important to note that many members don’t necessarily experience patriarchy as a big problem, but many do, so our hope is that what Neylan shares here can offer new understanding and illustrate the frustration and pain that many women, perhaps especially younger women, experience in our patriarchal church organization. In 2014, Neylan published her book Women at Church. In this address, she looks back at the decade since the book’s release and explores the tension between the way many women experience Church and a deep commitment to our faith and community. It’s an invitation to wrestle with complexity, to hold space for discomfort, and explore how we can do better in bringing womens gifts more fully into the body of Christ.We also want to mention that there is a part 2 of this conversation where Neylan is joined by therapist and podcaster Valerie Hamaker. Valerie offered insights into the empowering inner work of differentiation—how women can hold on to our spiritual authority while also staying engaged in the community we love. It's the practical application part of this session. That part two will be available as part of the digital access to Restore which you still can get digital tickets to at faithmatters.org/restore. As always, we encourage you to watch these episodes on the Faith Matters Youtube channel to get the full experience. Make sure to go to youtube and subscribe. We truly hope you find as much wisdom and inspiration in this conversation as we did. And with that, we’ll hand it over to Neylan McBaine at Restore.

This week, we’re going to share what we think was an “instant classic” from last week’s Restore Gathering; a deeply personal and thought-provoking message about family, faith, and the complexity of life from Joseph Grenny, author of Crucial Conversations and co-founder of many organizations, including The Other Side Academy, Drawing from his own experience with his own “messy” family, Joseph speaks openly about moments of despair, including the heartache of watching loved ones, including his own children, struggle with addiction, estrangement, and other crises.But at the heart of his message is a radical idea: that the phrase "All is well" can be true even in the face of chaos and imperfection. He challenges the traditional "brochure" image of family success, reminding us that not even the families in our sacred texts had it all together. Through powerful stories of redemption, both from his own family and the lives transformed at The Other Side Academy, Joseph encourages us to rethink what it means to succeed as families, and to embrace waiting as part of God’s divine work.We think this conversation will resonate deeply with anyone who has felt the pain of seeing a loved one struggle, and we hope it offers both comfort and inspiration. We loved seeing many of you at Restore and wanted to give a little taste of it to those that weren’t able to attend. So with that, we’ll pass it over to Joseph Grenny.

Today is the start of this year’s Restore! We look forward to seeing those of you who are attending! This week we’re departing from our normal format and sharing a recent conversation of the MormonLand podcast, between the Salt Lake Tribune’s Peggy Fletcher Stack and David Noyce and our executive director, Zach Davis. The conversation focused on the origin and vision of Faith Matters, the questions we are wrestling with, and what to expect at this year’s Restore. We think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation and with that we’ll hand things over to Peggy, David and Zach.