Brian McLaren on Life After Doom, Patient Urgency, & Complexifying Hope

"Andrew Krivak is a novelist, poet, and memoirist whose work has been compared to William Faulkner’s in its rich sense of place, to Wendell Berry’s in its attentiveness to natural beauty, and to Cormac McCarthy’s in its deep investigation of violence and myth. Yet all of Krivak’s writing, and especially his fiction, presents a truly singular vision." — Image Journal You might remember my last conversation with Andrew Krivak on his novel, The Bear. In addition to The Bear, Andrew has written a trio of books on a family lineage, beginning with The Sojourn (a National Book Award Finalist), The Signal Flame, and Like the Appearance of Horses. It is this latest book, Like the Appearance of Horses that we zero in on today. He holds a BA from St. John’s College, Annapolis; an MFA in poetry from Columbia University; an MA in philosophy from Fordham; and a PhD in literary modernism from Rutgers. Currently, Andrew is a volunteer discussion facilitator in the New Hampshire Department of Corrections Family Connections Center, and a Visiting Lecturer in Creative Writing at Harvard. He lives with his wife and three children in Somerville, Massachusetts, and Jaffrey, New Hampshire. In our conversation we talk about the profuse and evocative layers in Andrew’s writing, the multiplicity of the journey of hero or heroine, death as a character and and much more. Visit Andrew Krivak at andrewkrivak.com. Visit contemplify.com for episode shownotes.

"Dr. B was passionate about expanding our understanding of the Christian contemplative tradition, reminding us that contemplation isn’t the sole domain of those who can retreat to quiet places. She understood, from her own life and from the traditions she carried forward, that contemplative practices must also arise in the midst of struggle, in the heart of communities pressed against the weight of history and oppression. She helped us see that the Christian contemplative tradition, too often framed through a narrow, Eurocentric lens, was far richer and more diverse than we had realized. It’s a tradition that belongs to all of us—and she called us to honor it fully by embracing its breadth and depth" — Brian McLaren, posted on Center for Action and Contemplation's website Dr. Barbara Holmes served as president of United Theological Seminary of the Twin Cities, as well as professor of ethics and African American religious studies. She was ordained in the Latter Rain Apostolic Holiness Church in Dallas, Texas, and has privilege of call in the United Church of Christ and recognition of ministerial standing in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). In addition to her work with law firms, Holmes has worked with homeless missions, HIV/AIDS ministries, and international ministries in Kenya (the Presbyterian Church of East Africa) and Japan. The author of numerous books including Joy Unspeakable: Contemplative Practices of the Black Church, Race and the Cosmos, and Crisis Contemplation: Healing the Wounded Village. Holmes earned an MS from Southern Connecticut University, an MDiv from Columbia Theological Seminary, a PhD from Vanderbilt University, and a JD from Walter F. George School of Law at Mercer University. Dr. B was a Core Faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation. Dr. B passed away on October 15, 2024. In this 2016 episode, Barbara shares about her own contemplative lineage, reflections on the contemplative aspects of the Black Lives Matter movement, the contemplative and social impact of Kendrick Lamar and Beyoncé,  and her sense of hope in the next generation. Visit Dr. Barbara Holmes's work at drbarbaraholmes.com and her podcast The Cosmic We. Visit Dr. B's obituary is here.

"I was recently giving a sermon and found myself spontaneously quoting from Amy Leach's singular and surprising new book. I expect many readers will find their own lives troubled (in the Biblical sense) and enlightened by her fresh perceptions. She has lived into a hard-earned and entirely credible wisdom, the best evidence for which is her irrepressible sense of humor. One feels companioned by this book, and sorry when it ends." — Christian Wiman, author of Zero at the Bone   Amy Leach grew up in Texas, lives in Montana, and earned her MFA from the Nonfiction Writing Program at the University of Iowa. Her work has appeared in The Best American Essays, The Best American Science and Nature Writing, and numerous other publications. She is a recipient of a Whiting Award in Nonfiction, a Rona Jaffe Foundation Writers’ Award, and a Pushcart Prize. Amy Leach is the author of The Everybody Ensemble, Things That Are, and her most recent work which is the focus of our conversation today, The Salt of the Universe: Praise, Songs, and Improvisations. In our conversation Amy and I talk about leaving the tradition you were raised in, music that stirs the soul, being overchurched, salty pickles, and so much more. Visit Contemplify.com for the show notes to this episode.

Ben Katt has worked with On Being, as an ordained minister, an advanced meditation teacher, and author. His first book, The Way Home: Discovering the Hero’s Journey to Wholeness at Midlife is a guidebook and memoir about the inner journey that calls us further in the midst of life’s busyness. Ben is the founder of the WITHIN Prison Meditation Project, serves as a hospice chaplain, and writes regularly about identity, purpose, creativity, and belonging in his weekly STILLnewsletter. In our conversation we talk about a David Hasselhof museum, slowing down your life to catch up to it, getting quiet, relationships of depth, and much more.  Visit Ben Katt at benjaminkatt.com | IG: @akabenkatt Visit Contemplify at contemplify.com for shownotes

"[Jeffrey Martin writes] Songs that are stark in their simplicity, yet emotionally rich in a way that can catch your breath in your throat or leave your eyes suddenly damp." — Paste Jeffrey Martin is a musician with a number of albums under his belt. His latest, Thank God We Left the Garden, has been playing on repeat in my house since November of last year. That is not an exaggeration. Martin’s music has been turning my soul over with each listen, airing out the space and providing sunlight on unswept corners. Melodies and turns of phrase that alter the course of my day. In our conversation Jeffrey and I talk about his time as an English teacher, the mystery of knowing and unknowing in art, the impact of handwritten letters, and so much more. Visit Jeffrey Martin at jeffreymartinmusic.com | IG: @jeffreymartinmusic Visit Contemplify.com for the shownotes

“A powerful and important plunge into the reality of the mind and climate.” — Joan Halifax, author of Being with Dying and Standing at the Edge Susan Murphy is an Australian Zen teacher whose passionate feeling of kinship with the natural world began during her early childhood years living near the Great Barrier Reef and the Gondwanaland rainforest. A successful filmmaker, radio producer, and writer, she received dharma transmission from Ross Bolleter and John Tarrant in 2001. She leads regular retreats around Australia and teaches an Australia-wide sangha that extends internationally online. She is the author of numerous books, and most recently A Fire Runs through All Things: Zen Koans for Facing the Climate Crisis, which holds the center of this conversation. Susan and I talk about a childhood moment of awakening, the vast meaning of the word “Country” in Australia and its ringing formation in her, the punchy joy of Zen koans, and so much more. Visit Susan Murphy at zenopencircle.org.au Visit contemplify.com for shownotes

"In Touch the Earth, Drew Jackson's poetry offers a word-weary world a new language of engagement, disruption, and insight. As with all great poetry, the words are spare, but the literary images loom large, creating indelible impressions on the reader. Like echoes that reverberate long after the first sound, the poems stay with you, they dance with your spirit. After reading the poem 'Shake the Dust,' I am still considering a much broader definition of power, one no longer confined to the monarchs, governments, and oppressors but with a conscience as sticky as cling wrap that refuses to allow its memories to be shaken loose. This collection is a meditative treasure." — Barbara Holmes, author of Joy Unspeakable: Contemplative Practices of the Black Church and Crisis Contemplation: Healing the Wounded Village Drew Jackson is a poet, speaker, and public theologian. He is author of God Speaks Through Wombs: Poems on God’s Unexpected Coming and Touch the Earth: Poems on The Way. His work has been widely published. Drew received his B.A. in Political Science from the Univ. of Chicago and his M.A. in Theology from Fuller Theological Seminary. He currently works as the Director of Mission Integration for the Center for Action and Contemplation, and lives in Brooklyn, NY with his wife and daughters. In our conversation Drew and I talk about the seeds of poetry planted through the lyrical mastery of Nas as well as his immersion into sacred text, why Lucille Clifton’s poetry should explored by all, his mystical lineage and, and much more. Visit Drew Jackson at drewejackson.com | IG: @d.jacksonpoetics

Tracy Cochran is a writer, meditation teacher, and editorial director of Parabola, an acclaimed quarterly magazine that draws on the world’s cultural and wisdom traditions to explore the questions that all humans share. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, Psychology Today, O Magazine, and New York Magazine to name a few. Her latest publication is her book Presence: The Art of Being at Home in Yourself. In our conversation Tracy and I talk about owning the gifts and limitations of our presence, her daughter’s precocious question about Thich Nhat Hahn, the Buddha’s grief, and so much more. Visit Tracy Cochran at tracycochran.org | IG: @tracycochran_author Visit Contemplify.com for shownotes

Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a core faculty member and Dean of Faculty for the Center for Action and Contemplation and hosts the podcast, Learning How to See. Brian has written numerous books that you should read, and right now I recommend his latest Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart. In our conversation Brian and I talk about the desire to embody urgency and patience simultaneously, the music that has formed him, complexifying hope in dire times, and so much more. Visit Brian McLaren at brianmclaren.net | IG: @brian_mclaren Visit contemplify.com

Cassidy Hall is an author, award-winning filmmaker, podcaster, ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, and leading voice in contemplative spirituality. She is the cohost of the Encountering Silence podcast and the host of Contemplating Now and Queering Contemplation podcasts. Her latest book is Queering Contemplation, Finding Queerness in the Roots and Future of Contemplative Spirituality. Cassidy is widely published and currently resides in Indianapolis, where she is studying for her DMin degree. In our conversation Cassidy and I talk about what drew her into contemplative spirituality and what expanded its horizons, falling head over heels with a tree, and the gift of queering contemplation, and much more. Visit Cassidy Hall at cassidyhall.com | IG: @casshall Visit Contemplify.com for shownoets.