Chapter 43: Ethics Without God, Judging Without Evidence

This is an encore presentation of our very first podcast episode, about Chapter 1 of The Good Place after an introduction to our whole project! We’re republishing it primarily for anyone who is just discovering Tov! in time for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish new year holy day, which is a time for exploring all the themes in The Good Place as they apply to our lives. As you’ll hear in the episode, even though we’re two rabbis talking we are not pushing Judaism here, just kicking it around together. Maybe you’re someone who’s using The Good Place as how you start the new year, with or without our podcast as a guide! If so we’d love to hear about your experience and bet others would too. If you are looking for a community to gather with for Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur and don’t know how to connect to one, drop us a note at [email protected] and we'll find someone who will welcome you. Click here for show notes.

This episode is Jon Spira-Savett’s attempt to collect my thoughts about how The Good Place illustrates, riffs on, critiques and expands on the Jewish concept of teshuvah (personal change as “returning”), especially as taught in the writings of Rabbi Moses Maimonides. What have I learned so far, and has it affected me in my life? This episode is an exposition in one voice and not a conversation, and for those who prefer just to read it the “script” is linked in the show notes.

Yet another “insider” conversation with someone from the Good Place team! Pamela Hieronymi is a philosophy professor at UCLA with whom Michael Schur spoke early on in the show’s development. Pamela talks with Dan Ross and Jon Spira-Savett about some of the moral emotions, like envy, resentment, and blame; whether one can in fact try to be good and whether some people have limits on how good they can become; reframing the matter to center another’s experience of being disrespected rather than the calculation of one’s own rightness or blame; what effect death or immortality have on our moral lives. We of course discuss contractualism and why Pamela thinks it is both the best theory and an inspiring one, despite its sometimes dense presentation in the works of modern philosophers. We get her take on Maimonides and teshuvah (repair as “return), the Torah covenant as compared to modern contractualism -- and the moral superiority of horses! Click here for show notes and links to Professor Hieronymi's website and some selected articles and videos. Click here to listen to our first podcast on a specific Good Place episode, Chapter 1.

Rebecca Rosenthal, Dan Ross, Sari Laufer and Jon Spira-Savett roam around our reflections after this Jewish rewatch of the entire series! We four have been the most frequent co-hosts of Tov! We’re joined by co-host Daniel Kirzane. Some of our topics include which main characters continue to resonate for us or strike us in new ways; aspects of the show that pleasantly surprised us “Jewishly”; things the creators of “The Good Place” explored that we wish Judaism had even more to say about; whether there’s anything theological about the series; and of course even more! Click here for our podcast website.

Listen to or watch the recording of the live show here! Rebecca Rosenthal, Dan Ross, Sari Laufer, and Jon Spira-Savett will be co-hosting a conversation with some of our reflections on rewatching The Good Place with a Jewish lens, and we’ll respond to your questions in the Zoom chat or the Facebook live feed, and we’re happy to have you talk with us live on Zoom too! We can fit 96 more people with us on Zoom. Some of our other co-hosts will be on too. If you can’t be there in real time but have something you’d like us to respond to, or if you have a recorded bit you’d like us to play, send us a note ahead to [email protected]!

On The Good Place, friends and family arrive, and everyone wrestles with what to do there and whether or when to choose a final, peaceful end. Tahani stays as an architect, Jason and Chidi leave, Michael exits into life as a human, and Eleanor’s sparks go into the universe and perhaps return to earth. On the podcast, Elliot Goldberg and Jon Spira-Savett invoke the Talmud’s heaven-earth straddlers. We Jewishly problematize the water-wave metaphor, and marvel at the role other people play in discerning our personal destinies according to both the Talmud and Michael Schur! Though we’re discussing the last episode of the series, we’ve got a few more podcast episodes to come so we can reflect on what we’ve learned. Click here for show notes.

On The Good Place, our group finally gets to the actual Good Place, where they discover that an eternity of perfection has led to boredom and stagnation even for those who were moral giants on earth. So they propose a new option, that people can stay as long as they like and then choose when it’s time to bring their existence to a peaceful end. On the podcast, Dan Ross and Jon Spira-Savett discuss our own tentative views about the afterlife. We run through a number of Jewish views of what happens with us in Olam Ha-Ba, the World to Come, from Maimonides’ view to Dara Horn’s. Mostly we talk about how we think our individual souls continue to exist somehow for the purpose of giving back to Olam Ha-Zeh, This World, and how others’ souls continue to affect us. Click here for show notes.

On The Good Place, it’s time to pilot the new assessment system and and train its operators. Eleanor and Chidi are both afraid the other will have second thoughts about their relationship after reading their individual file, and Michael has trouble handing responsibility off to Vicky. On the podcast, Savannah Lipinski (new co-host!) and Jon Spira-Savett explore Jewish teachings about judging, and talk about what to take into account and what not to when we judge others and ourselves. We discuss Michael’s situation in terms of when it’s okay to focus on our own growth and fulfillment and when our role in a broader ethical project should be the primary frame. Click here for show notes.

No, the title isn’t a question about your next laptop… On The Good Place, Janet brings everyone including the Judge and Timothy Olyphant into her void, where Chidi presents his concept for an updated afterlife based on multiple reboots and learning from one’s prior lives. On the podcast, Rebecca and Jon talk about how we access and use our imperfect memories, and how Judaism tries to help us retrieve and use our memories for teshuvah -- via Yom Kippur and other practices while we’re still alive the first time. We ponder Jon’s off-the-cuff surmise that the Torah is Team Punishment and the Talmud is Team Learning, and reflect on how the Talmud addresses punishment through careful attention to the individuality of the one who was wronged and the one who did the wrong. Click here for show notes.

Both The Good Place and the podcast are pulling many threads together as the series moves toward its finish! On The Good Place, Chidi gets back all his memories from life and the afterlife, including the questions he has asked each friend, mentor, and partner along the way and how those conversations have informed his quests for truth and a soulmate. On the podcast, Dan Ross and Jon Spira-Savett talk again about Talmudic teachings connecting learning and goodness, this time bringing in other teachings about how the people we learn from affect the ethical ideas and commitments we develop. Picking up on the last episode of the show and the podcast, we add a couple more layers and meanings of the word teshuvah: finding answers by going back to the important people from our past, actively remembering and appreciating what we learned with and through them. Click here for show notes.