The Foreign Area Officer Podcast

Back on the wire with retired Air Force Lt Col Dr. Brian Hobbs about his career as a Foreign Area Officer and his book, "US Defense Industry Offsets: The Presidential Exception for National Security." Hobbs traces his early exposure to Japan through an AFS high school exchange, Japanese study in college and ROTC, early intel assignments in Korea and Japan, graduate school and DLI language training in Chinese and Korean, teaching roles (including at the Korean Air Force Academy), and later work in SAF/IA implementing a more rigorous Air Force FAO (Regional Affairs Strategist) program amid institutional resistance. Post-retirement, he worked at DSCA, the F-35 program for Japan, and BAE Systems before completing a Virginia Tech PhD. He explains offsets as “side deals” in defense sales, outlines the U.S. hands-off policy with a presidential waiver, and highlights case studies on the UAE, Poland, and India.   00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 01:27 Early Air Force Roots 02:10 Japan Exchange Spark 03:02 College and Language Path 09:16 First Assignments Korea Japan 10:49 Learning Hangul Fast 14:32 Why Korean Feels Hard 16:33 Self Managing Career Moves 24:10 First FAO Role Hawaii 27:51 Building Air Force FAO Program 31:42 Institutional Pushback Stories 37:50 From Intel to FMS Focus 40:14 Teaching and Return to Korea 42:13 DLI Instructor Friction 42:52 Studying Ahead Under Pressure 44:22 Romance Language Advantage 46:15 Testing Out and Institutional Limits 48:21 Kicked Out of Class 51:44 Turning Setback Into Success 54:44 Post Retirement Job Pivot 57:27 F 35 Japan and FMS 01:00:12 Hybrid Programs and Reform 01:06:00 Industry Travel Burnout 01:08:25 PhD Path and GI Bill 01:14:55 Offsets Research Breakthrough 01:21:22 Offsets Explained With Examples 01:25:51 Offsets Gone Weird 01:26:34 FAO Awareness Not Negotiation 01:28:32 Corruption vs Buy American 01:32:23 Why Presidential Approval Exists 01:43:45 How Offsets Get Requested 01:47:59 Where FAOs Fit Today 01:52:50 Offsets and China Competition 01:57:18 Pitfalls and Red Lines 02:04:52 Book Origins and Case Studies 02:09:34 Where to Find the Book 02:11:05 Closing Thanks and Wrap

This is the Man who Would be Khan.  While a first-year Russian student at West Point, then Major Mark Derber dropped an article from The Atlantic on my desk, Robert D. Kaplan's "The Man Who Would Be Khan". It changed my life. 20 years later, you get to hear my interview with the Man himself. COL (R) Tom Wilhelm shares his path from West Point (commissioned infantry in 1980) through a dual-track infantry/aviation start, declining the new Aviation Branch, and entering the FAO program in the mid-1980s as a Soviet/Russian FAO. Wilhelm recounts an extensive Cold War-era pipeline (FAO course, DLI Russian—joined fully by his wife—graduate school, a summer in Leningrad, and the US Army Russian Institute/Marshall Center), then FAO work with OSIA conducting arms-control inspections (Vienna Document, INF, CFE) and the Provide Hope humanitarian mission in Tajikistan amid civil war. He describes a “knife fight” to regain infantry key jobs during post–Cold War drawdowns, deployments in Macedonia and Bosnia, being imbedded with a Russian airborne brigade, a later Tajikistan attaché tour with family hardships and evacuation, Marshall Center faculty/FAO mentorship, Mongolia as dual-hatted defense attaché/security cooperation chief, an Afghanistan/Pakistan tour, retirement, and directing the Foreign Military Studies Office. He emphasizes FAO risk-taking, networking, access, and conveying what partners think, not what Americans want to hear. To read the original Robert D. Kaplan article you can find it on The Atlantic's website.  If you don't have a subscription, the WayBack Machine is your friend: https://web.archive.org/web/20121020120633/https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/03/the-man-who-would-be-khan/302899/   COL(R) Tom Wilhelm’s Recommended Reading List: GENERAL FMSO https://oe.t2com.army.mil  Look for FMSO stuff but many products from T2Com G2 are useful for FAOs. Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training https://adst.org Exceptional repository of detailed interviews that provide unparalleled country and regional backgrounds over eras. Red Team Handbook https://home.army.mil/wood/application/files/6115/8222/0759/RedTeamHB.pdf  There are actually ways to approach alternative, critical thinking—very helpful to cross-cultural communication and telling us how “they” think. Culture Shock: Leadership Lessons from the Military’s Diplomatic Corps (ed. Graham Plaster, Jason Criss Howk—Book by FAOs for FAOs)  The Worldly Philosophers (Robert Heilbroner; entry level book into developing an understanding of economics and society—a baseline subject for all FAOs. Try also The Mystery of Capitalism by Hernando deSoto) The Cave and the Light: Plato Versus Aristotle, and the Struggle for the Soul of Western Civilization (Arthur Herman—before you can tell us what we think they think, you should probably want to know how “we think.”)    RUSSIA The Russian Way of War (Les Grau and Charles Bartles—on FMSO website [above] or just Google it.) How Russia Fights https://www.army.mil/article/286922/how_russia_fights (Ted Donnelly, Jeff Hartman, Tom Butler, et.al.) Swimming the Volga: A US Army Officer’s Experiences in Pre-Putin Russia (Peter Zwack) The Leviathan (Movie; award winning Russian film has good representation of the individual’s relationship to power in Russia, among other cultural and political-social insights. Made me feel that I was back in Russia, drinking vodka and shooting bottles with an AK47.) The Trauma Zone (Seven-part series on YouTube; for a sense of post-Cold War chaos in Russia. “Chaos” conjures something tangible in Russia; it’s not just an adjective.) Seventeen Moments of Spring (12-part series on YouTube; addresses the question: Why a 2025 statue to this 1973 Soviet spy thriller television series was recently installed in Moscow. Part of the answer has to do with those untrustworthy Americans in secret alliance with Nazis against Russia—a once and current theme.)   WHILE YOU LAYOVER AT THE SERRAI The Empire of the Steppes (Renee Grousset—dense but essential for anybody that thinks they are a Eurasianist, and mandatory for all Silk Road FAOs.) Mission to Tashkent (F.M. Bailey) News From Tartary (Peter Flemming) Eastern Approaches (Fitzroy Maclean) The Great Game (Peter Hopkirk) Some Far and Distant Place (Jonathan Addleton) Across Mongolian Plains (Roy Chapman Andrews—American FAO archetype, 1916-17) The Wilder Shores of Love (Lesley Blanch—Isabel Burton, Jane Digby, Amiee Dubucq, and Isabelle Eberhrdt join my long-suffering bride, Cheri, in FAO-like misadventures abroad)   00:00 Meet Tom Wilhelm 01:28 The Man Who Would Be Khan 02:24 West Point to Dual Track 07:11 Choosing the FAO Path 11:05 Soviet FAO Pipeline 14:01 Leningrad Language Adventure 19:12 Russian Institute and IRTs 23:33 Wall Comes Down Up Close 27:02 Echo Network and Mentorship 31:04 First FAO Job Arms Control 35:32 Provide Hope in Tajikistan 40:31 Back to Infantry in Europe 42:39 RIF Era Career Knife Fight 44:36 FAO Cuts and Reassignments 45:54 Branch Qualifying Knife Fight 46:08 Macedonia to Bosnia Pivot 48:42 Self Deploying to Bosnia 50:27 Joint Commission in War Zone 53:03 Inside the Russian Brigade 55:11 How Russians Command 58:48 FAO Lesson on Mission Command 01:06:51 Tajikistan Arrival and Isolation 01:09:17 Embassy Life and Local Allies 01:13:29 Surviving Dushanbe Living Conditions 01:18:15 Civil War and Afghan Spillover 01:23:55 Family Evacuation and Zinni Meeting 01:28:28 Soft Power And Access 01:28:51 Peacekeeping Expertise Built 01:31:20 FAO Track And Command List 01:34:19 Marshall Center Fellowship 01:37:03 Mongolia Dual Hat Role 01:44:32 9/11 And Mongolia Pivot 01:46:33 Building Mongolian Peacekeeping 01:55:10 Mongolian Curse Artifact 02:01:27 Back To Marshall Center 02:04:43 Afghanistan To Pakistan Liaison 02:07:23 Retirement And FIMSO 02:09:16 Hall Of Fame And Farewell

Join me for a conversation with LTC(R) Scott Womack, a US Army Foreign Area Officer (FAO) with extensive experience in Africa. We discuss Scott's journey from West Point cadet to FAO, his assignments in Chad, Senegal, and Congo, and his experience in dealing with complex security and diplomatic challenges. Scott shares insights on balancing family life, the importance of language and cultural skills, and how he transitioned to teaching and running a farm post-retirement.    00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:42 Meet Scott Womack: From West Point to FAO 01:28 Academic Pursuits and Research at West Point 02:58 Intercultural Competence and Cadet Experiences 05:01 Real-World Applications and Ethical Dilemmas 08:42 Semester Abroad Programs and Cultural Immersion 10:59 West Point Assignments and Africa Studies 12:51 The Importance of Language and Cultural Training 20:54 Evacuation Operations in Central Africa 38:47 Introduction to Ucomm and African Desk Officers 39:11 Challenges and Opportunities in African Assignments 39:33 Developing Skills and Understanding in Security Assistance 42:13 Transition to Learning French and First Assignment in Chad 42:30 Origin Story and Early Career Influences 45:32 Civil Affairs and the Path to FAO 46:57 Experiences in Rwanda and the Importance of Preparation 48:54 Navigating Assignments and Promotions 58:56 Building Relationships and Overcoming Challenges in Chad 01:04:29 Transition to Senegal and Family Adjustments 01:15:00 Unexpected Transfer to Kinshasa 01:15:23 Challenges of Working in Kinshasa 01:17:12 Navigating International Interests and Security 01:18:47 UN Peacekeeping Efforts and Structural Flaws 01:27:29 Personal Reflections and Coping Mechanisms 01:28:49 Comparing Experiences in Chad and Kinshasa 01:37:05 Final Reflections and Career Transition 01:40:13 Life After Military Service 01:47:38 Closing Thoughts and Advice

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast five former Army FAO branch chiefs join me for an in-depth discussion on a range of topics critical to Foreign Area Officers (FAOs). The panel includes Eldridge “Raj” Singleton, Steve Browne, Luke Donahue, Wes Chaney, and Pete Roongsang. They delve into the FAO training pipeline, in-region training, common mistakes made by new FAOs, and provide practical advice for career management and PCS assignments. The conversation highlights the role of the FAO branch chief, the importance of understanding military assignments, and the critical aspects of mentorship within the FAO community. The episode wraps up with personal anecdotes and practical advice aimed at helping FAOs navigate their careers successfully, emphasizing the need for proactive career management, understanding the complexities of diplomacy, personal relationships, and the value of mentorship.   00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:41 Meet the Host and Guests 01:26 Colonel Singleton's Journey 02:34 Colonel Brown's Experience 03:46 Colonel Donahue's Career Path 05:51 Lieutenant Colonel Cheney's Background 07:02 Colonel Ang's Story 09:37 Discussion on FAO Training Pipeline 10:52 Challenges and Solutions in FAO Training 24:18 Mistakes and Lessons for New FAOs 40:59 Role of the FAO Branch Chief 48:55 Navigating Authority and Friction in Assignment Processes 49:31 The Role and Challenges of a Branch Chief 50:51 The Importance of Road Showing and FAO Relevancy 54:28 Career Management and Assignment Strategies 01:04:40 Financial and Logistical Challenges in PCS 01:13:22 Integrity and Professionalism in FAO Careers 01:38:06 Falsifying Graduate Degree and Army Dismissal 01:38:25 Inappropriate Behavior at the US Embassy 01:40:23 Assignment Refusal and GI Bill Forfeiture 01:42:09 Misconduct and Consequences in the FAO Community 01:46:22 Challenges and Support for FAOs 01:54:12 Mentorship in the FAO Community 02:16:03 Final Thoughts and Advice for FAOs

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast, host Michael Hill interviews retired Lieutenant Colonel Bill Woods, an Eastern European FAO and current instructor at the Joint Military Attaché School (JMAS). LTC Woods shares his experiences and challenges faced during his career, including the undervaluation of FAOs in the past, his roles in Naples, Cyprus, and London, and the importance of building relationships in diplomatic and military contexts. The discussion also touches on the practical aspects of being an FAO, the impact of critical thinking and current doctrinal knowledge, and the unique experiences and opportunities presented by serving at JMAS. Bill reflects on the importance of having fun in the job and staying engaged in current assignments while planning for future roles.   00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer 00:42 Welcome and Guest Introduction 00:59 Early Experiences as a FAO 02:13 Challenging Assignments and Career Growth 04:44 Political Advisor Role in Baghdad 07:47 NATO Advisor Experience 23:22 Greek Language and Cultural Immersion 41:39 Access and Opportunities in Foreign Military Education 43:06 Challenges and Misconceptions in Greek War College 44:19 Thesis Writing and Overcoming Language Barriers 44:58 Navigating Cultural and Academic Expectations 45:33 Ethical Dilemmas and Academic Integrity 46:31 Building Relationships and Gaining Respect 47:25 Experiences and Reflections on Military Assignments 49:45 The Importance of Fitting In and Building Trust 51:29 Protocol and Respect in International Military Relations 54:33 Career Path and Assignments in Military Diplomacy 55:59 Navigating the Attache Service and Career Challenges 57:54 The Role of FAOs in Multinational Operations 01:00:25 Balancing Operational Knowledge and Diplomatic Skills 01:07:31 The Value of War College and Continuous Learning 01:20:02 The Future of FAOs in a Changing Military Landscape 01:22:39 Experiences and Challenges in Cyprus 01:27:11 Minister's Support and Explosive Seizure 01:28:06 Meeting the Minister of Defense 01:28:59 The Explosion and Its Aftermath 01:30:14 Improving Relationships Post-Explosion 01:33:44 Challenges and Strategies in Diplomatic Relations 01:42:24 Reflections on Career and FAO Experiences 01:53:13 Working at the Joint Military Attaché School (JMAS) 01:58:28 Advice for Future FAOs and Instructors 02:08:22 Final Thoughts and Farewell

In this episode I’m happy to welcome back LTC(P) Wes Chaney, US Army AFRICOM FAO.  Wes shares his journey in establishing the Army Foreign Area Officer Association and discusses his first book, which delves into his experiences as a security cooperation officer in Africa. The conversation covers a variety of topics including the creation of his Africa OSC blog, the unique challenges faced by FAOs, the importance of mentorship, and the activities of the Army FAO Association. Wes also provides invaluable advice on managing expectations, senior leader engagements, and the specific 'shoulds' (don’t be that guy!)and 'traps' FAOs should be aware of. The episode is a goldmine of information for both current and aspiring FAOs, offering practical tips and reflective anecdotes from Wes's extensive career.   00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:40 Welcoming the Guest: Lt. Col. Wes Cheney 01:13 The Birth of the Africa OSC Blog 04:12 Challenges and Realizations in Blogging 06:53 From Blog to Book: The Journey 07:31 Publishing Hurdles and Success 08:59 Content and Structure of the Book 10:38 Practical Advice for Security Cooperation Officers 14:54 The Importance of Adaptability and Learning 15:42 Travel Tips and Cultural Insights 40:21 The Should List: Dos and Don'ts for SCOs 47:36 Understanding Your Role and Building Consensus 48:36 Common Pitfalls in Security Cooperation 49:50 The African Love Traps and Other Hazards 50:48 Misuse of Government Resources 51:12 Managing Health and Stress 01:06:00 The Importance of Senior Leader Engagements 01:16:22 Managing Expectations and Avoiding False Promises 01:22:43 The Army FAO Association: Achievements and Future Plans 01:28:31 The Importance of Mentorship in FAO Careers

Meet MAJ(P) Promotable Jacob Myers, currently serving at the Military Advising Training Academy (MATA) at Fort Benning, Georgia. Our discussion covers the purpose and function of MATA, the development and training of military advisors, and the history and evolution of Security Force Assistance Brigades (SFABs). Myers elaborates on his experience in Latvia, the challenges of building rapport and training in a foreign country, and the rapidly changing dynamics in Eastern Europe following Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We also touch on FAO professional development, the importance of language skills, and the valuable interactions and learning opportunities throughout a FAO’s career.   Books Discussed: Between Two Giants, Brit Batar The Russians, Hedrick Smith Kiril Yaskov, The Last Ring Bearer   00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:45 Meet Major Promotable Jacob Myers 01:11 Understanding the Military Advising Training Academy (MATA) 02:29 History and Evolution of Security Force Assistance Brigades (SFABs) 06:53 Training and Deployment of Military Advisors 10:22 Challenges and Realities of Military Advising 14:05 Combat Advisor Training Course (CATC) Overview 19:14 Practical Training and Exercises 28:50 Expanding Training to Joint Forces and Foreign Partners 35:25 The Role of FAOs in SFABs 39:52 Personal Experience and Future Aspirations 43:51 Understanding the FAO Roles and Responsibilities 46:02 Navigating Challenges in Latvia During COVID-19 47:20 Impact of Russia's Invasion of Ukraine on Latvia 51:02 Strengthening US-Latvia Defense Relations 01:10:07 Language and Cultural Dynamics in Latvia 01:20:21 Jacob's Journey: From Basic Training to FAO Program 01:21:35 Joining the National Guard and Pursuing Active Duty 01:21:58 Transition to Active Duty and Deployment to Afghanistan 01:23:02 Experiences in Afghanistan and Promotion to Captain 01:25:20 Pentagon Assignment and Introduction to FAO 01:26:14 Discovering the FAO Program and Early Influences 01:29:58 Training and Assignments as a FAO 01:30:42 Language Training and Family Experiences 01:32:27 Marshall Center and Regional Travels 01:42:35 Importance of Building Relationships and Staying Informed 01:47:49 Final Thoughts and Advice for FAOs

What crisis was central to your experience working at a U.S. embassy abroad, for better or worse? Join me in a discussion with COL(R) JP Gresh to discuss his  experiences in Russia, Ukraine, and the Balkans. The conversation highlights key moments such as the 2013-2014 Ukraine crisis, the challenges of security cooperation in Estonia, and the complexities of working in Russia. Additionally, Gresh shares insights into balancing professional and personal life with a spouse in the Department of State, and offers advice for future FAOs on training, career growth, and the importance of adaptability and maintaining strong interagency relationships. COL(R) Grech also serves as the Co-Editor-in-Chief of the FAOA Journal.   Books/Organizations Discussed Black Swan, Nassim Nicholas Taleb All the Kremlin’s Men, Mikhail Zygar Between Two Fires, Joshua Yaffa Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible, Peter Pomerantsev FPRI (Foreign Policy Research Institute), www.fpri.org  FAOA Journal, www.faoajournal.substack.com     00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:46 Meet Colonel JP Gresh 01:33 Early Military Career 02:51 Discovering the FAO Path 03:51 Experiences in Germany and the Balkans 05:52 Reflections on Iraq 10:37 Ukraine: First FAO Utilization Tour 13:47 The 2014 Ukrainian Crisis 15:57 US-Ukraine Military Relations 19:52 Strategic Insights on Russia and NATO 29:44 Lessons from UCOM and Security Cooperation 50:54 Balancing Dual Careers in the FAO World 54:14 Reflecting on Professional Challenges and Lessons Learned 56:44 Navigating a Tandem Career in the Department of State 57:19 Insights on Managing Dual Professional Careers 59:33 Experiences and Challenges in Russia 01:01:10 The Complex Relationship Between the U.S. and Russia 01:05:48 Living and Working in Moscow 01:08:54 Surveillance and Daily Life in Moscow 01:12:46 Diplomatic Restrictions and Challenges 01:18:27 Family Life and Safety in Russia 01:23:33 Post-Retirement and Contributions to the FAO Community 01:28:28 Reflections on FAO Training and Career 01:44:22 Final Thoughts and Parting Advice

In this episode of the Foreign Area Officer Podcast, I interview Julie Tully and her husband U.S. Navy CAPT(R) John Tulley. We discuss Julie's transition from a cowgirl in Northern California to a 'nomadic Navy spouse' and the dynamic journey from her career in agriculture to becoming a Foreign Area Officer (FAO) spouse, living and working in Europe and Africa for fifteen consecutive years. The conversation delves into the couple’s experiences living in Cameroon, Nigeria, and Djibouti and the impact of their roles there. They touch on memorable challenges, the importance of self-reliance, and the significant contributions spouses make to the FAO mission. Julie also shares the inspiration and stories behind her book, 'Dispatches from the Cowgirl,' offering a deeper look into the FAO lifestyle and its challenges and rewards.   Learn More about Julie’s work at www.JulieTullyWriter.com   Books Discussed: Dispatches of a Cowgirl, by Julie Tully Broadway in Benghazi, by Anna Linvill Out of Africa, by Isak Dinesen (Karen Blixen)   00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:45 Meet the Guests: John and Julie Tulley 01:19 Julie's Journey: From Cowgirl to Navy Spouse 03:37 Life on the Ranch and Transition to FAO 04:55 The FAO Lifestyle: Challenges and Adaptations 14:11 John's Naval Academy and Submarine Experience 19:16 Discovering the FAO Career Path 22:07 Julie's Perspective: Public Relations and FAO Life 25:46 Adventures and Challenges in Africa 34:16 The Importance of Teamwork in FAO Assignments 43:10 A Hospital Emergency Room in Nigeria 57:04 The Commissary Conundrum 59:10 Internet Surprises in Nigeria 59:47 Defining Home Across Continents 01:09:18 Experiencing Local Cultures Through Staff 01:34:19 Honoring a Fallen Hero in Djibouti 01:49:14 Reflections on the FAO Life  

Join me for an illuminating discussion with Colonel Matt Kopp, a U.S. Army FAO. We explore Colonel Kopp's beginning as a 48B, focusing on pivotal partnerships in Latin America, particularly during the final phases of Colombia’s Civil War. Colonel Kopp shares insights into his transition to a 48J, concentrating on Sub-Saharan Africa, and the critical need to understand and respond to the human and institutional complexities in these regions. The conversation includes discussions on his operational challenges, such as managing high-profile visits and interagency coordination, and the role of psychology and sociology in his duties. We also touch upon his work with the Army Foreign Area Officer Association, focusing on mentorship, fostering academic discourse, and preparing FAOs for influential second careers.   Books Discussed Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman https://a.co/d/fNUHTUn  Neither Devil Nor Child: How Western Attitudes Are Harming Africa, by Tom Young https://a.co/d/9yv70Z8  On the Psychology of Military Incompetence, by Norman F. Dixon https://a.co/d/4nkJNIt    00:00 Introduction and Disclaimers 00:42 Meet Colonel Matt Kopp 01:01 Career Choices and Transitions 02:22 Experiences in Sub-Saharan Africa 03:39 Challenges and Responsibilities at HRC 08:23 PhD Journey and Research 15:36 Transition to Africa FAO 23:02 Building Relationships and Team Dynamics 31:07 Insights on Leadership and Collaboration 43:46 Psychological Factors and Broader Perspectives 48:18 Understanding Heuristics in International Relations 50:28 Managing High Operational Tempo in Kenya 51:00 Military Operations and Planning in Diplomatic Missions 56:26 Lessons from Secret Service and VIP Visits 01:04:04 Transition to Army Service Component Commands 01:13:01 Experiences in Latin America and SOUTHCOM 01:26:32 The Role of the Army Foreign Area Officer Association 01:33:31 Final Thoughts and Recommendations