The Clayton Vance Podcast

Joe has spent years learning the history behind the homes most people just walk past. In this episode he and Clayton explore authenticity in architecture, the real reason mid-century through 80s construction felt so wrong, and why genuine excitement might be the most powerful tool in education. One of those conversations that quietly changes how you see the world around you.

I was a guest on the Heber Valley Life Podcast with Rachel Kaler, and this is Part 2 of our conversation about the hard questions shaping Heber Valley right now—growth, housing, and what it actually takes to build a place with long-term beauty and livability.We dig into the “missing middle,” why zoning often separates communities like “pizza ingredients,” and how historic towns mixed housing types naturally—because the street (not the lot) was the real composition. We talk about why density gets placed on the edges, why form matters as much as use, and why “affordable” doesn’t have to mean “ugly.”

I recently joined the Heber Valley Life Podcast to talk about something that affects all of us: why our valley looks the way it does—and what we can do about it.We discussed growth, affordability, city codes, and the tension between single-family living and higher density. I shared why “timeless” is really another word for beautiful, why trend-driven design fades fast, and how simple massing, natural materials, proportion, and order still matter. We also dove into how zoning quietly acts as the DNA of a city—and why if we don’t get the code right, we won’t get the outcome right.If you care about how Heber Valley grows, what replaces open land, and whether new development becomes a contribution or a detraction, this is a conversation worth hearing.Tune in to Heber Valley Life and let me know what you think.https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heber-valley-life-building-community-with-rachel-kahler/id1830594627

Episode 3 of 3 in our Education Series In this final episode of my three-part conversation with Paul Monson, Director of Architecture at Utah Valley University, we turn to the practical question of how. How does a student become better prepared for the profession, and how can any of us become more attentive and informed observers of the built environment. We begin with Vitruvius and his description of what an architect should know. It is a demanding standard, but Paul uses it to make a grounded point. Architecture requires breadth, humility, and lifelong learning. The goal is not to master everything at once, but to steadily develop judgment, skill, and clarity. From there, we discuss:what is missing in many programs when architecture is taught as theory rather than crafthow to evaluate an architecture school, including the right questions to ask on a visitwhy UVU is built around accessibility, affordability, and real-world preparationwhy hand drawing remains essential and how it supports clear thinking and design freedomhow digital tools can shape outcomes if students become limited by software assumptionshow non-architects can begin training their eye and building design vocabularywhere to start with resources such as the Institute of Classical Architecture and Artand why the built environment is not fate, but choiceWe also talk about curriculum, accreditation, learning through making, community-engaged studios, and the importance of developing both technical competence and a refined sense of proportion and beauty. We close with a larger reminder. Beauty is not a luxury. It is deeply connected to human wellbeing, meaning, and culture. Wherever you are, improvement is possible, and it requires participation from everyone involved in building our world.

Episode 2 of 3 in our Education SeriesIn the second episode of this three-part conversation with Paul Monson, Director of Architecture at Utah Valley University, we move from the foundation of education to the deeper question of why traditional architecture matters at all.Paul and I talk about the origins of the UVU architecture program and why it was intentionally built around craft, practicality, and time-tested principles rather than purely conceptual theory. From there, the conversation widens into the cultural, environmental, and moral implications of how we build.To explain it, we begin with a simple idea: sustainability is not about novelty or technology alone, but about durability, repairability, and stewardship. From throwaway buildings to throwaway materials, Paul makes the case that much of what we call “progress” has quietly eroded our built environment and our sense of place.From there, we explore:why traditional architecture is a teachable and learnable languagehow modernism became the default way of building in the twentieth centurywhat true sustainability looks like when you consider an entire building’s life cyclewhy local materials and local identity matter more than global samenesshow tradition can produce diversity rather than imitationwhy the accusation that traditional design is “just copying” misses the pointand why architects and designers cannot be neutral in shaping the civic realmWe also discuss processed materials, authenticity, modern construction constraints, and how designers can work toward something better even when budgets and systems are imperfect.This episode asks a difficult but necessary question: Are the places we are building today making life better or worse for the people who inhabit them?If you have ever felt uneasy about the way modern buildings age, or why so much of the built world feels disposable and placeless, this conversation puts language to that intuition and explains why the past still has something to teach us.

Episode 1 of 3 in our Education SeriesIn this first episode of a three-part conversation with Paul Monson, Director of Architecture at Utah Valley University, we start at the foundation: what education is actually meant to do.Paul and I go back nearly twenty years to our time at the University of Notre Dame, and because of that shared background, this conversation is less about credentials and more about transformation. We talk about how architectural education is not just about learning how to design buildings, but about learning how to see the world differently.We begin with Paul’s story, from growing up interested in both art and science, to living in rural Japan, to discovering architecture through craft, construction, and stained glass. Long before he had the language for it, he was absorbing lessons about material, proportion, nature, and beauty.From there, we unpack:What education really means as a process of drawing something outWhy the idea that beauty is purely subjective breaks downHow Notre Dame challenged modern assumptions about novelty and originalityWhy craft, tradition, and standards still matterHow great buildings permanently change perceptionWhy the environments we live in quietly train usHow architectural knowledge is passed down through mentorship and practiceWe also talk about Japan, classical music, Vitruvius, and why learning to design well is inseparable from learning to live well.This episode sets the stage for the rest of the series by asking a simple question: If education shapes how we see, what happens when we stop teaching people how to recognize what is good, true, and beautiful?If you care about architecture, culture, or how the built world shapes us, this is the place to start.

In 1931, a book called Towards a New Architecture helped launch the modernist movement—and I believe we’re still living with its consequences today. In this episode, I look at the ideas behind that book, not as a book report, but as an exploration of how efficiency, mass production, and the idea of “the house as a machine” reshaped our homes, cities, and understanding of beauty. I walk through the historical moment that produced modernism, how new materials and industrial thinking changed architecture forever, and why so much of what we build today traces back to this shift. And I ask a question I think we need to confront honestly: Was this progress—or something else entirely? This episode is about architecture, culture, and technology—and why the world looks the way it does today.

Episode 3 of 3 in our Zoning SeriesIn this final episode of our three-part deep dive with urban strategist Mike Hathorne, we shift from diagnosing the problems with zoning and density… to exploring the solutions. And the biggest solution is one most people misunderstand: mixed use. To explain it, we start with a simple metaphor—pizza. Modern zoning forces us to eat pizza one ingredient at a time: dough here, sauce there, cheese somewhere else. No wonder it tastes terrible. Mixed use is what happens when the ingredients actually come together the way they always have throughout history.Mike and I unpack:What mixed use really means (horizontal vs. vertical, organic vs. regulated)Why every beloved historic town on Earth is mixed use—even if people don’t think of it that wayWhy so much modern “mixed use” feels fake or DisneyfiedThe difference between authentic vs. formulaic developmentWhy master-planned mixed use often failsHow to build neighborhoods that evolve flexibly with the marketWhy walkability and human-scale design naturally produce better placesHow mixed use strengthens community, wellbeing, and human flourishingWhy real estate must become a community-building tool instead of just a financial vehicleWe also talk about authenticity, human-scale design, why new developments feel shallow, how cars changed everything, and why the most successful mixed-use communities grow incrementally, not all at once.This episode closes the loop on zoning, density, mixed use, and the deeper truth beneath them all: our built environment shapes us—and we can choose to shape it back. If you want to feel hopeful about how American neighborhoods can improve, this is the episode.

This is episode two of my three-part series with urban strategist Mike Hathorne, and we’re tackling the topic that sends entire towns to public hearings with pitchforks: density.Everyone’s heard it: “A high-density project is coming in…” And instantly, it’s kill the beast, shut it down, save the field next door. In this episode, Mike and I break down why density triggers such a visceral reaction—and why most of the time, we’re aiming our anger at the wrong thing.We dig into:Why people fear “density” even when they already live at 4 units/acreHow the number (units per acre) gets blamed instead of the pattern and designWhy you can have terrible low-density and magical higher-densityHow zoning and finance quietly create economic segregation (Dollar General, Walmart, Target, Nordstrom neighborhoods)Why suburban development often doesn’t pay for itself and functions like a Ponzi schemeHow infrastructure costs (roads, sewer, utilities) explode when everything is spread outWhy apartment complexes exist—and how institutional money shapes what gets builtThe difference between density and intensity, and why we should care more about the latterBy the end, we land on a simple but uncomfortable conclusion: density is not the enemy. The problem is the rules and systems that dictate what density looks like.If you’re a homeowner fighting a project, a council member making decisions, a planner, developer, or designer trying to do better work—this episode will give you language, insight, and a clearer way to think about density than just “more = bad.”This conversation sets the stage for episode three, where we dive into mixed use and how to actually solve the problems density is getting blamed for.

What if the reason our cities feel chaotic, disconnected, or unsustainable has nothing to do with “bad developers” or “greedy politicians,” and everything to do with a hidden set of rules written over a century ago?In this episode — the first of a three-part series with Mike Hathorne — I sit down with Mike to explore how zoning became the invisible force shaping almost every part of American life.Mike is a demographic and housing-market strategist with decades of experience, and his biggest insight is simple and startling: zoning is the DNA of our built environment.Mike shares the moment that opened his eyes — walking into the Kentlands, one of America’s first New Urbanist communities — and realizing that the places that feel magical, walkable, and deeply human are not accidents. They come from a completely different set of rules.Together, we unpack:Why zoning quietly determines the output of every neighborhoodHow cars, modern technology, and early 1900s policy reshaped America overnightWhy people react emotionally to new development — often before they know whyWhy terms like “illegal development” are usually misunderstoodAnd the moral responsibility we all share — planners, designers, officials, developers, and homeowners — in shaping land, nature, and communityFor me, this conversation isn’t just academic. It’s about helping people become active observers of the world around them — not passive consumers of whatever environment they inherited.If you’ve ever wondered why your town looks the way it does or whether it could be different, this episode will change how you see the built world forever — and set the stage for the next two episodes in this series.Mike's book: https://a.co/d/320T3za