The Church Podcast

86% of youth and young adult ministry leaders report a high level of joy, and 72% of Gen Z leaders expect to stay five years or less. Dr. Charlotte McCorquodale explains why, and what pastors and dioceses can do about it. In this conversation, Christopher Wesley and Dr. Charlotte McCorquodale of Ministry Training Source, our first three-time guest, talk about her new report, The Stack We Carry, the follow-up to Illuminating Trends. They cover three pressure points (more, more, more; leaders who plan to leave within five years; and the push to reinvent ministry), job descriptions, defining success beyond attendance, pay, transitions, and the first conversations leaders, pastors and dioceses can start. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-078-why-gen-z-youth-ministers-plan-to-leave-in-5-years-with-charlotte-mccorquodale Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: joyful, committed, and still leaving 1:26 Welcome and announcements 4:47 Meet Charlotte McCorquodale 7:19 Why a follow-up to Illuminating Trends 10:54 The stack of stones: what ministry leaders carry 15:57 Why Gen Z leaders plan to leave within five years 22:04 Pressure point: more, more, more 29:31 Pressure point: shifting realities and reinventing ministry 35:32 Starting the conversation: questions for leaders and pastors 39:00 Job descriptions and defining success 43:56 What dioceses can do 46:17 Retention, pay and the pay gap 53:17 Turnover, transitions and healthy teams 56:59 Why Charlotte wrote this for diocesan leaders 59:10 One next step: start with your peers 1:03:02 Where to find the report 1:05:28 Closing thoughts RESOURCES MENTIONED Ministry Training Source: https://ministrytrainingsource.org The Stack We Carry: https://www.ministrytrainingsource.org/resources/product/p_3388920 The Stack We Carry Conversation Series, From Pressure Points to Balancing Actions: Where Do We Begin? A three- or five-session resource series to help pastors or supervisors, ministry leaders and teams understand the pressure points, discuss their local realities, choose a balancing action and identify practical next steps. Each session includes adaptable presentations, speaker notes and handouts: https://www.ministrytrainingsource.org/resources/product/p_3385947 Illuminating Trends and other research reports: https://ministrytrainingsource.org/research Episode 055, Illuminating Trends with Charlotte McCorquodale: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-055-illuminating-trends-what-the-data-says-about-the-future-of-ministry-with-charlotte-mccorquodale Episode 014, The Importance of Forming Pastoral Ministry Leaders with Charlotte McCorquodale: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-014-the-importance-of-forming-pastoral-ministry-leaders-w/-charlotte-mccorquodale National Catholic Youth Conference: https://nfcym.org/ncyc CONNECT WITH CHARLOTTE Website: https://ministrytrainingsource.org Email: [email protected] ASK JENNY A QUESTION Submit a question for a future episode at http://thechurchpodcast.org/ MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep078 M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep078 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative

"The head and the heart leave the church much earlier." Kedon Gumerson, founder of Kinetic Catholic, on why most young Catholics are gone before college and what reaches Catholic high schoolers now. Kedon started a weekly Catholic apologetics channel at 11. Now a senior at Franciscan University of Steubenville, he leads a team of young adult missionaries running retreats in Catholic high schools. He and Christopher talk about why faith becomes "a school subject," why Gen Z is all in when they love Jesus, the age gap in our parishes, how older leaders can empower young people, and how to keep going without burning out. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-077-why-catholic-teens-leave-the-church-before-college-with-kedon-gumerson Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: "It's old people" 1:01 Welcome and introduction 3:50 Meet Kedon Gumerson 5:09 Kid Catholic: an apologetics channel at 11 13:06 Building a team at Franciscan 18:04 Why teens leave before college 23:59 Why Gen Z is all in 28:41 The age gap in our parishes 34:22 How older leaders can empower young people 38:56 Inside a Kinetic Catholic retreat 44:51 Avoiding burnout 48:55 Kedon's hope, and how to connect RESOURCES MENTIONED Kinetic Catholic: https://kineticcatholic.com/ Springtide Research Institute, research on Catholic teens: https://springtideresearch.org/post/religion-and-spirituality/research-on-catholic-teens TENx10: https://www.tenx10.org/ NFCYM events, including NCYC and Exchange: https://nfcym.org/ CONNECT WITH KINETIC CATHOLIC Website: https://kineticcatholic.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kineticcatholic/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kineticcatholic YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8xnRLyVlvmPL-PFiu-1bYg MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep077 Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep077 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep077 Ask a question for a future episode: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/

"The Holy Spirit has not given up on the north of England." Jack Regan, author of How to Start a Fire, on why most Catholic youth ministry isn't forming disciples, and what the ministries that are do differently. Jack Regan, director of youth services for the Diocese of Lancaster in England, spent ten years studying ministries that really evangelize. He and Christopher talk about naming what isn't working, the mission-vision-strategy exercise most ministries skip, moving from maintenance to mission, discipleship as a journey, what success in ministry actually looks like, why your team needs fraternity, and why anyone can evangelize. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-076-why-catholic-youth-ministry-isnt-working-and-what-is-with-jack-regan Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: "The Holy Spirit has not given up" 1:00 Welcome and introduction 3:36 Meet Jack Regan 6:01 Why he wrote How to Start a Fire 15:00 Successful ministries know why they exist 22:23 From maintenance to mission 32:10 Discipleship is a journey 38:15 What success in ministry looks like 44:10 Fraternity: a team that likes each other 50:33 Anyone can evangelize, and Jack's hope RESOURCES MENTIONED Jack Regan, How to Start a Fire: A Blueprint for Catholic Youth Ministry: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1036980162?tag=04130706-20 (affiliate link) Castlerigg Manor, Diocese of Lancaster youth service: https://castleriggmanor.com/ The Ascent: https://www.theascentuk.co.uk/ NFCYM events, including NCYC and Exchange: https://nfcym.org/ CONNECT WITH JACK Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jackreganuk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackreganuk/ MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep076 Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep076 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep076 Ask a question for a future episode: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/ As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

"There aren't many people walking barefoot to Rome, but there are people in middle seats." Joan Watson and John Paul Lichon of Verso Ministries on preparing pilgrims for World Youth Day in Seoul. John Paul Lichon, founder and CEO of Verso Ministries, and Joan Watson, its pilgrim formation manager, talk about what makes a pilgrimage different from a trip, how to prepare pilgrims for the sacrifices along the way, the "so what?" question every pilgrim should answer, the story of the Korean Church, how to bring the whole parish along, and why you don't have to fly overseas to make a pilgrimage. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-075-world-youth-day-2027-in-seoul-how-to-prepare-your-group-with-verso-ministries Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: "Parts are gonna hurt" 1:01 Welcome and introduction 2:32 Meet John Paul, Joan and Verso Ministries 7:09 Why a pilgrimage is not a vacation 11:41 Sacrifice, setbacks and lost luggage 17:00 Coming home: the "so what?" question 22:51 Starting Verso with $25 and a state website 28:29 World Youth Day in Seoul and the Korean Church 35:52 Bringing the whole parish along 41:49 What gives them hope: "Take courage" RESOURCES MENTIONED Verso Ministries: https://versoministries.com/ Lead a group with Verso: https://versoministries.com/lead-a-group/ In Via podcast: https://versoministries.com/in-via/ Verso's startup story: https://versoministries.com/versos-startup-story/ World Youth Day Seoul 2027: https://wydseoul.org/ Joan Watson, Making a Pilgrimage: A Companion for Catholics: https://www.joanwatson.faith/ CONNECT WITH JOAN AND JOHN PAUL Verso: https://versoministries.com/ and https://www.instagram.com/catholictravels/ Joan: https://www.joanwatson.faith/ and https://www.instagram.com/joan.m.watson/ SUPPORT OUR WORLD YOUTH DAY PILGRIMS Marathon Youth Ministry is helping the Sisters of Bon Secours and the Diocese of San Diego take about 70 pilgrims to Seoul with Verso. Please pray for us, and support a pilgrim at https://wydbonsecours.org/donate World Youth Day collection at the MYM store (proceeds support pilgrims): https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep075 MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep075 Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep075 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep075 The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/

The vision is good, the program is good, "and you get two people to sign up." Jenny O'Neill of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia asks Christopher the questions youth ministers are asking. In this first episode of a new segment, Jenny O'Neill, associate director of the Office for Ministry with Youth in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, puts her questions to Christopher Wesley: what he stopped believing about youth ministry, why good events go empty, how to tell whether a ministry needs more time or isn't working, how to keep teens on fire after NCYC or Steubenville, and how to know when it's time to move on. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-074-why-no-one-shows-up-to-your-youth-ministry-with-jenny-oneill Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: praying for a snowstorm 0:41 Welcome and a new segment: questions from Jenny 2:10 Meet Jenny O'Neill 5:50 What Christopher stopped believing about youth ministry 10:50 Jenny's faith story and the power of invitation 15:29 Good vision, good program, and nobody shows up 23:10 Does it need more time, or is it not working? 27:29 When teens come home on fire from NCYC or Steubenville 31:58 Discouragement and knowing when to move on 37:04 What gives Jenny hope RESOURCES MENTIONED Office for Ministry with Youth, Archdiocese of Philadelphia: https://phillyomy.org/ YCOPI (Youth Co-leadership Protagonism Initiative): https://phillyomy.org/ycopi/ Philadelphia Catholic Youth Conference (PCYC): https://phillyomy.org/philadelphia-catholic-youth-conference-pcyc/ National Catholic Youth Conference: https://nfcym.org/ncyc Steubenville Youth Conferences: https://steubenvilleconferences.com/ Life Teen: https://lifeteen.com/ CONNECT WITH JENNY Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phillyomy/ Website: https://phillyomy.org/ ASK JENNY A QUESTION Submit a question for a future episode at http://thechurchpodcast.org/ MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep074 M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep074 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep074 The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/

"Teach my children the prayers, but teach me how to pray." Patrick Donovan of the Diocese of Bridgeport on what parents are really asking the Church for. Dr. Patrick Donovan, director of the Institute for Catholic Formation for the Diocese of Bridgeport, talks about why innovation makes the Church nervous, what a survey of about 15,000 parents revealed, how the diocese is renewing faith formation parish by parish, and how Bishop Frank Caggiano is using short videos, an animated series and AI to reach families. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-073-reimagining-faith-formation-teach-the-parents-too-with-patrick-donovan Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC307YUsy2980SICsZElRPGA CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: "family formation" as a hostage situation 0:54 Welcome and introduction 2:31 Meet Patrick Donovan 5:42 Why innovation makes the Church nervous 15:03 How Bishop Caggiano recruited him 17:54 A "womb to tomb" parish renewal process 23:01 What 15,000 parents said: "Teach me how to pray" 26:04 Bite-sized formation and a school without walls 32:13 Bishop Frank Teaches the Faith, an animated series 40:00 Using AI responsibly 48:04 What gives Patrick hope RESOURCES MENTIONED Formation Reimagined (Institute for Catholic Formation): https://formationreimagined.org/ Start with Sunday (home of Bishop Frank Teaches the Faith): https://startwithsunday.org/ The Face of Prayer (text PRAY to 55778): https://formationreimagined.org/the-face-of-prayer/ First Witnesses: https://firstwitnesses.org/ Ron Rolheiser, The Holy Longing: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385494181?tag=04130706-20 (affiliate link) Ep 072, What Parents Really Want From Youth Ministry with Robert Feduccia: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-072-what-parents-really-want-from-youth-ministry-with-robert-feduccia CONNECT WITH PATRICK Formation Reimagined: https://formationreimagined.org/ Start with Sunday: https://startwithsunday.org/ MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep073 Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep073 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep073 The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/ As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

"If the church could help me get beyond the one-word answer with my son, I would come to everything you did." Robert Feduccia shares what marginally engaged parents really want from the Church. Robert Feduccia, president of EQ Saints, listened to Catholic parents from San Diego to Boston who drop their kids off but aren't at Mass on Sunday. He shares the assumptions that research overturned, how he runs a parent-teen night that gets families talking, why the classroom has become the "source and summit" of parish life, and why we need to answer the "so what" of the Eucharist. Full show notes and resources: https://blog.marathonyouthministry.com/churchpodcast/episode-072-what-parents-really-want-from-youth-ministry-with-robert-feduccia Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3-fVOpoiHE CHAPTERS 0:00 Welcome and introduction 1:58 Meet Robert Feduccia 9:41 Who stays Catholic, and why 15:16 Listening to marginally engaged parents 18:36 What parents actually want from church 24:14 A parent-teen night that works 34:20 Why parishes fall short 39:55 The "so what" of the Eucharist 51:11 Trade an adversarial posture for empathy 54:35 Robert's hope for the Church RESOURCES MENTIONED EQ Saints: https://eqsaints.com/ Springtide Research Institute, Catholic Edition 2021: https://springtideresearch.org/product/catholic-edition-2021 Search Institute, 40 Developmental Assets: https://searchinstitute.org Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0813215161?tag=04130706-20 (affiliate link) CONNECT WITH ROBERT https://eqsaints.com/ [email protected] MORE FROM MARATHON YOUTH MINISTRY M2GO: training videos, templates and resources for your ministry team: https://marathonyouthministry.com/ministry2go?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep072 Ministry Coach: https://ministryally.app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep072 MYM store: https://marathonyouthministry.store?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=audio&utm_campaign=church-podcast&utm_content=ep072 The Church Podcast is a member of the NFCYM Podcast Network: https://nfcym.org/podcastnetwork/ More from the show: http://thechurchpodcast.org/ Recorded on Riverside (affiliate link): https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaign=campaign_5&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=rewardful&via=christopher-wesley Produced by Marathon Youth Ministry and Stephen Herrera of Be Well Creative: https://bewellcreative.co/ As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

In this episode of The Church Podcast, Christopher sits down with Carlos Perez, Marathon Youth Ministry's merchandise and branding lead and a former student of Christopher's youth ministry. Carlos shares how a spontaneous "yes" to running livestream equipment during the pandemic turned into a decade-long relationship with Christopher, and how questions he couldn't shake as a middle schooler eventually grew into a confident, lived-out Catholic faith. From altar serving and Quo Vadis retreats to a formative and challenging trip to SEEK in St. Louis, Carlos traces the moments that moved his faith from head knowledge to something internalized. Together, Christopher and Carlos explore what young Catholics are really searching for in an age of social media and AI — namely authenticity — and why so many are being drawn back toward tradition, reverence, and things like the Traditional Latin Mass. They also discuss the cultural pressure around fundraising in Hispanic households, the value of unplugging from phones on retreat, and how Marathon Youth Ministry's new merchandise line is meant to carry that same message of authenticity forward. For more visit https://thechurchpodcast.org

In Episode 070 of The Church Podcast, I sit down with Marizoli Santiago to discuss empowering young leaders in the Church. Marizoli shares her journey from graphic design to youth ministry, emphasizing the importance of giving teens the opportunity to lead and create their own ministries. We explore her innovative program, Why Copy?, which encourages youth to find their voice and actively participate in the Church. Marizoli highlights the significance of listening to diverse perspectives within the community and creating inclusive spaces that foster growth and unity. Join us as we delve into practical strategies for engaging young people and transforming parish life.

In this episode of The Church Podcast, Christopher sits down with Bob McCarty, longtime Catholic ministry consultant, author, and former Executive Director of the National Federation for Catholic Youth Ministry (NFCYM). Bob spent 10 years in parish and school youth ministry in Philadelphia, 14 years leading the youth office for the Archdiocese of Baltimore, and 19 years as Executive Director of NFCYM before stepping away in 2016 — a move he calls his "recalibration" rather than a retirement. Since then he's worked as a ministry consultant (he prefers "animator") and co-authored Going, Going, Gone: The Dynamics of Disaffiliation in Young Catholics. Together, Christopher and Bob unpack what synodality actually means, why it's less a new program than a name for practices ministry leaders have used for years, and what synodal leadership looks like in contrast to clericalism. They talk through concrete examples — from parish-wide listening groups to a single question at the family dinner table — and get into the virtues, and the chaos, that synodal leadership requires. For more visit our show notes at https://thechurchpodcast.org