Spiritual, Not Religious

Have you ever stood at a mountain overlook, watched a sunset, or gazed up at a sky full of stars and thought, there has to be something more than this? On this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, James, and Mollie welcome Rev. Jane Cheema — Director of Spiritual Programs at Appalachia Service Project and a lifelong lover of the outdoors — for a conversation about why so many people, especially young adults, find God more easily on a trail than in a pew.Jane shares how a childhood spent among the lakes and forests of Northern Minnesota shaped her spiritually, and tells the story of a solo winter night in the Boundary Waters that awakened a lifelong practice of paying attention to the natural world. From there, the conversation opens into some of the biggest questions facing the church's relationship with creation: What if the beauty of nature isn't the end of the spiritual journey, but the beginning? How did centuries of "dominion" theology quietly separate us from creation instead of connecting us to it? And what would it look like to reclaim stewardship not as an obligation, but as a relationship?The group digs into rewilding the church, the difference between control and communion, and why wilderness — biblically and personally — has always been a place of disorientation and reorientation rather than danger to avoid. Mollie reflects on presence and unplugging ahead of her upcoming Camino de Santiago pilgrimage, James connects creation care to the image of God in all things, and Jane closes with Wendell Berry's poem "The Peace of Wild Things."It's a wide-ranging, honest conversation about awe, stewardship, disconnecting from technology to reconnect with the sacred, and why getting outside might be one of the most spiritual things you do all week.In this episode:Why nature so often feels spiritual — even to people who've stepped away from churchJane's story: growing up in Northern Minnesota and a solo Outward Bound winter nightRethinking "dominion" theology as relationship and stewardship insteadCreation care as a defining value for young adultsRewilding the church: what worship outside the walls could look likeControl, comfort, and why churches can be afraid of the unpredictableUnplugging to connect: technology, presence, and Mollie's upcoming Camino pilgrimageClosing reading: Wendell Berry's "The Peace of Wild Things"

Grab your sunscreen and roll the windows down — it's the summertime kickoff to Spiritual, Not Religious! Hosts Shawn, James, and Mollie use the metaphor of the road trip to dig into one of the biggest questions facing young adults and emerging adults today: am I supposed to find myself, or am I meant to be found?In this episode, the trio shares personal road trip stories — from Mollie's mission trips to Guatemala with the UTM Wesley Foundation to James's all-night college drives — before turning to the deeper spiritual themes underneath: the pressure young adults feel to "follow their heart" and "live their truth" when they don't yet know what either means, the cultural checklist of college-career-marriage-kids, and why wandering in the wilderness (yes, like the Israelites) isn't failure — it's formation.They talk about journaling as a spiritual practice, hearing God's "still, small voice" (1 Kings 19), the difference between perfectionism and wholeness, the role of mentors in discerning God's voice, and why faith often isn't about climbing toward God but realizing God has been pursuing you all along — through scripture's tax collectors, fishermen, and the woman at the well.It's a conversation about trusting the process, embracing the unknown, and remembering that — whether you're on a literal road trip or just trying to figure out your twenties — you are infinitely precious and unconditionally loved for the gift you already are.In this episode:Why road trips are the perfect metaphor for the spiritual lifeThe problem with "just follow your heart" advice for young adultsWilderness wandering as discernment, not punishmentJournaling as a spiritual practice (and giving yourself grace when it's messy)Hearing God in the silence (1 Kings 19 / Elijah)Finding vs. being found — faith as pursuit, not achievementA shoutout to Appalachia Service Project and the Greenbrier County, WV summer crewConnect with us: Instagram: @spiritual.not_religious_podcast Email: [email protected], Not Religious is a podcast for young adults exploring the intersection of God's kingdom and the modern world.

In this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, James, and Mollie explore the “gospel of fear” that often shapes culture, politics, and faith communities—and why that message can be especially harmful for young and emerging adults. Together, they reflect on the difference between healthy fear and controlling fear, the ways fear can divide us into “us” and “them,” and how Jesus continually calls people beyond suspicion into compassion, relationship, and love. The conversation invites listeners to notice when fear rises, question where it comes from, and choose a faith rooted not in anxiety or control, but in neighbor-love, grace, and the deep truth that we are infinitely precious and unconditionally loved.

In this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, James, and Mollie explore the complicated but deeply important topic of vulnerability, especially within faith communities. Together they reflect on how churches often fail to feel like safe places for honesty, with James and Shawn sharing personal experiences of church environments where openness felt risky rather than healing, while Mollie names the real harm that can happen when vulnerability is mishandled. The conversation highlights how trust, authenticity, empathy, and healthy boundaries are essential for any community that hopes to hold people well. Drawing on scripture, pastoral experience, campus ministry, and recovery-group insights, they suggest that true vulnerability usually grows not in large public spaces but in smaller, trusted relationships where people are met with grace rather than shame. Ultimately, the episode encourages listeners not to give up on seeking spiritual community, but to look carefully for people and places where honesty is welcomed, healing is possible, and love is real.

In this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, Mollie, and James explore the “mismatched messages” many people—especially young adults—receive from faith communities: a proclaimed gospel of love, hope, and welcome paired with exclusion, judgment, and rejection. Using real examples (including LGBTQ+ inclusion, “love the sinner/hate the sin,” Christian nationalism, and nostalgia for a “golden age” church), they discuss how these contradictions dehumanize people and push seekers away from church and even from God. The conversation lifts up the importance of seeing the Imago Dei(the image of God) in every person, practicing nonviolent truth-telling, and choosing “the practice of the better” rather than condemnation—grounding faith in compassion, listening, and humble self-examination. They close by inviting listeners to use Lent (or any season) as a time of realignment—returning to Scripture, prayer, and inner centeredness—so our lives and communities embody the love we claim to proclaim.

In “Guilt, Shame, and the Stories We Tell Ourselves — Part 2,” the Spiritual Not Religious team continues their deep dive into the difference between guilt and shame and explores how the church has sometimes used both for formation—and, at times, for control. Drawing on insights from Brené Brown and faith-based counseling language that frames guilt as conviction and shame as condemnation, the conversation traces these dynamics through biblical stories like Genesis and Jesus’ response to the woman caught in adultery. Along the way, Shawn, James, and Mollie reflect on personal experiences of “church hurt,” the role of vulnerability and safe community in healing, and why religious culture so often fixates on sexuality. The episode closes with a hopeful reminder: we are not defined by our worst moments, and the path forward is rooted in truth, grace, and belovedness.

In this first episode of a two-part series, the Spiritual Not Religious crew explores the difference between guilt and shame—and why confusing them can quietly shape our identity, relationships, and mental health. Guilt tends to focus on behavior (“I did something bad”) and can open a path toward honesty, repair, and growth. Shame sinks deeper (“I am bad”) and often thrives in secrecy, people-pleasing, defensiveness, and harsh self-talk. Along the way, the hosts reflect on how shame can become trauma, why naming what we feel gives us power, and how empathy and safe community can shrink shame’s grip. Part two will look more directly at how religion and the church have used guilt and shame historically—and what healing might look like now.

In this episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn Winburn, Mollie June Miller Bachman, and cohost James Henry sit down with Dr. Tanita Maddox (Young Life’s National Director for Generational Impact and a Gen Z researcher) to explore insights from her book What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. With warmth and humor (including a memorable “Ghostbusters of hot chocolate” backpack), Tanita shares how her decades in youth ministry led her to realize Gen Z isn’t “harder” so much as living in a different world—marked by anxiety, suffering on constant display through digital media, and a pervasive low-trust culture. The conversation centers on why Gen Z’s questions—like “Is God good?” “Do all people matter?” and “What is true?”—must be heard through their lived experience rather than answered with quick clichés, emphasizing the need for presence, humility, and genuine listening. Tanita and the hosts unpack “contextualizing the gospel” as an unavoidable (and necessary) practice, critique the church’s tendency to rely on “high-trust” assumptions in a low-trust era, and reflect on how Jesus models love over being “right.” The episode closes with practical encouragement for welcoming Gen Z—making space for doubt, taking small relational risks, and trusting that God can handle honest wrestling—along with ways to connect with Tanita and the podcast team.

The hosts of Spiritual, Not Religious return from a two-month hiatus with a Thanksgiving-week conversation about being grateful for doubt. Shawn, James, and Mollie swap stories from their own faith upbringings—where questions were sometimes discouraged—and contrast that with the safe, curious spaces they now try to create for young and emerging adults. Drawing on biblical examples (Thomas, Peter, Job, the psalmists, Jacob, Abraham, Isaiah) and Kathleen Norris’ reminder that belief is a process rather than a product, they explore how honest questions, spiritual wrestling, and even anger at God can deepen rather than destroy faith. They talk about doubt as relational risk, a way of giving your heart—not just your head—to God, and encourage listeners to find trusted companions who can hold their questions without shame. The episode closes with the simple prayer, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief,” as a blessing for anyone navigating seasons of uncertainty.

In this eleventh episode of Spiritual, Not Religious, Shawn, Mollie, and James explore why many young people say faith matters yet struggle to let it shape everyday choices. Drawing on campus ministry experience, Aramaic insights about wholeness and “shalom,” and the fruit of the Spirit, they contrast “looking spiritual” with actually loving people in concrete ways—kindness, courage, and integrity when it’s inconvenient. They unpack the tension between fitting in and standing out, the trap of compartmentalizing faith to Sundays, and how practices (do no harm, do good, and keep close to God) gradually ripen character. The episode lands with practical nudges—resist gossip, befriend “the other,” and carry grace into ordinary spaces—because you’re infinitely precious and made to live this love all week long.