Results Without Restriction

  The holidays are once again upon us… a time to eat, drink, and be merry! But if one of those activities is taking up more time, energy, and headspace than you’d like or causing friction in your relationships (I’m looking at you, Drink!) then this episode is for you. Exploring Your Relationship With AlcoholEpisode TranscriptFrequently Asked Questions About Your Relationship With AlcoholWhat does “relationship with alcohol” mean?How can my relationship with alcohol impact my health?Can alcohol affect relationships even if I don’t drink “too much”?Do I need to quit drinking to improve my relationship with alcohol?How is exploring alcohol different from restriction?What are signs my relationship with alcohol might be worth exploring?How is alcohol similar to diet culture patterns?Can taking a break from alcohol improve mental clarity?What’s a supportive first step to explore my relationship with alcohol? I chat with Teri Patterson, also known as The Sober Nutritionist, who helps women explore and understand their relationship with alcohol with curiosity and without judgement.  Teri shares her own experience of looking at how alcohol fit into her life… until it didn’t… the resistance she had to giving it up, and the amazing things she has discovered being sober for the last 7 years. Download Teri’s free gift for listeners… 5 Healthy Reasons to Take a Break From Alcohol   Teri’s website: https://thesobernutritionist.com/ Connect with Teri on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teri.thesobernutritionist Connect with Teri on Instagram Book a call with Teri Episode Transcript Laurie:I’m Laurie Mallon and this is the Results Without Restriction podcast. The show where results have nothing to do with weight and everything to do with setting and reaching health and fitness goals that focus on what we’re achieving and not what we’re losing. We’ll talk about deprogramming from diet culture and get expert advice on reclaiming your relationship with food and movement. Join me on this journey to get results without restriction. Welcome everyone. I am here with Teri Patterson. She is a functional nutritionist and she is also a This Naked Mind senior coach. Teri blends her knowledge of nutrition with her passion for living an alcohol-free life into a unique business as The Sober Nutritionist. Teri’s mission is to help her clients discover how drinking less can actually be the key to better health. Teri is also the host of the popular podcast The Sober Edge, inspiration for alcohol-free living, and she’s the creator of the brand new Self Experience, a place for women after alcohol who want to build a life by design and not by default. Welcome, Teri. Teri:Well hello Laurie, thanks for having me on the podcast. Laurie:I have to tell you that I got so much great feedback and excitement about having you on the podcast to talk about alcohol consumption and health and all of the things that surround that. One thing that I like to kind of start with at the beginning of this episode is, you know, the podcast is called Results Without Restriction and how can we talk about cutting out alcohol, right? Isn’t that restriction? The way that I see restriction is when you tell yourself you can’t have something. And the lens that we’re looking at this through is you’re choosing. You’re examining. You’re exploring the relationship between what happens when you consume something. How does it feel in your body? How do you feel about it? If it’s working for you, if it’s not working for you, you can choose not to consume. You can choose to avoid it. That’s not restriction. So I’d like to get that out of the way before I get any messages about that. So Teri, what I like to do first with my guests is go over backstory. How did you get to the point where you are The Sober Nutritionist? Teri:Yeah, so that’s a great question. And really for me, I think I was kind of what I would call myself a wellness enthusiast. I was always interested in just kind of trying some things, whether it was green smoothies or lifestyle hacks. I always considered myself kind of a normal drinker. I just sort of socially drank. And then as alcohol does, it does create a tolerance. We can talk a little bit about why that happens in the brain, but I started finding myself drinking more to get the same effects. I got to a place where I looked at my life and I thought, well, if I value wellness and I just don’t feel like alcohol is really creating that sense. I was spending a lot of mental energy thinking about drinking, thinking about not drinking, wondering if I should cut back. I just started to have this disconnect with alcohol. In the beginning it was sort of fun and social and take it or leave it, and then it got to be much more consuming. I didn’t have any rock bottoms. I didn’t have, fortunately, no DUI. I didn’t lose a job. Although those things can happen when we have a complicated relationship with alcohol and we find ourselves over-drinking. But for me it was really just this sort of nagging voice that said, “Is this really working for you?” And what would happen if you took a break? So it’s coming up on seven years for me. And seven years ago I didn’t really know if there were other options out there. I really thought twelve-step, the traditional Alcoholics Anonymous, was kind of the thing, and I really didn’t want to do that. I live in a small town. I had a lot of unfounded fears about what that might look like. And so I had tried moderating for a long time, and again it took up a lot of headspace. If I don’t drink on Wednesday, can I drink on Friday? And if I only have beer, can I have something else? It was just kind of a mental game and that wasn’t working. And so when I stopped drinking, I just stopped. And I told myself if I couldn’t stop, I might need to go to meetings. That was kind of the beginning for me of this journey that is now coming up on seven years of not drinking alcohol. Laurie:One thing that you said there, and it really rang true for me, was it taking up a lot of mental space for you to kind of moderate. If I do this on Thursday, can I do this Friday? If I only have beer, then can I have one? A lot of correlations there with diet culture, making those distinctions where you have to spend a lot of time thinking about if I do this, can I do that. It just didn’t seem like it was worth it for you to keep having to do these calculations. I think it’s interesting that you mentioned that it was black or white. It was either drink and figure out how to do that in a way that worked for you, or twelve-step, go the recovery route, and that really wasn’t working for you either. There wasn’t a lot of middle ground there. And now what’s so fascinating is where we are in our culture. We’ve really had this sober curious movement, and there are lots of options out there now. Teri:Yeah. And so what happened for me was when I stopped drinking, I suddenly had all of this time and energy. So I took that passion for wellness and I decided to become a nutritionist. I went to the Nutritional Therapy Association and became a nutritionist. When I got there, I thought, well, these are my people. Everybody will be valuing wellness and they won’t be drinking alcohol. And that wasn’t the case at all. They’re humans. And there is a lot of information out there, a lot of misinformation, a lot of misdirection around the health benefits of alcohol, for example. I was learning so much about the body, but we weren’t learning a lot about alcohol in the body. So I did that independent research myself. I found that my nutrition clients, their health just wasn’t turning the corner if alcohol was still involved. So I started coaching people to take a look at alcohol. I found that that was a really challenging place for people, and I didn’t have as many tools as I wanted to. So I went and became a certified coach in the methodology of This Naked Mind, which helps people take a break, but it looks very different than those traditional twelve-step programs. When I discovered the work of Annie Grace, who founded This Naked Mind, I thought, that’s what I would have needed. And that’s something I can offer to my clients. It’s a very different model of how to explore our relationship with alcohol without all of the black-and-white that comes with those traditional views and programs. Laurie:I like this because growing up, you know, like in my twenties, it was either you drank or you didn’t. And if you didn’t, you were either pregnant, you had a problem. There wasn’t this space where you could really just choose to not drink and people mind their business about it. So I love that this is becoming more prevalent, more acceptable, to just say, yeah, this is just not something I participate in. Let’s move on. It’s not a thing. When you started working with your clients and their relationships with alcohol, what were some of the things that you were seeing that were coming up for them in terms of what they expected to find when they looked into that, and what they actually found? Teri:Yeah, it’s fascinating because there’s a lot to unpack there. It can be around their health. For me, if I take my own story, I was really stuck on it’s going to be boring, people are going to be boring, I might be boring. How will I have fun? Alcohol was just a part of my world. If I went to a baby shower, there were mimosas. If I went out to dinner, there were drinks. I often had a drink before I went to dinner. I did a lot of drinking at home. Wine while cooking dinner. Wine after dinner. Cocktails on the weekend. Breweries. Going to festivals where there was beer. Going to Oktoberfest. So it was very challenging to think, what is life going to look like if I take alcohol out? Because it was touching on all of the relationships, all of the activities, all of the daily routines. I think for people, we really get stuck on, I don’t know how to untangle this. So there are a lot of assumptions about what’s going to happen. We think we’re going to lose all of our friends. We won’t be able to hang out with the same people. And that’s not true. Then we think that life’s going to be very dull and boring, and that’s not true. Then we think that all of the things we use alcohol for, around stress, around boredom, around connection, we really get to challenge each and every one of those areas. When we really look at the way that alcohol acts in our body and creates this dynamic of how we show up, it’s very different than what we assume on the other side. This is what’s so powerful about just exploring it with an open mind and saying, gosh, is it really building connection if I feel lonely and I drink because I’m lonely and I’m drinking alone? Is that helping loneliness, or is that actually fostering less connection? These are the things that are fascinating to explore with people. There are a few things that are very similar, and then everybody sort of has their own hang-ups. Laurie:What you said about how far-reaching alcohol is into every facet, right? It’s to unwind after work. It’s with dinner, after dinner, weekends, events, socially, hanging out. It’s so pervasive. Sometimes we just may not even realize until we make that conscious decision to say, let’s take a step back and investigate what it might feel like and why we’re hesitant to scale back on that. Because like you said, what if everything is boring? What if I’m boring? My life is boring. What does that say about me if I actually do need alcohol to make my life, to make me interesting, exciting, and fun? That’s really interesting. Teri:One of the ways to look at this too is if we think about the ways that alcohol connects for any individual. I like to talk about it in these three layers. We have the substance of alcohol. We use alcohol because it helps with food pairing, like it makes food taste better. Then we look at society. I need alcohol to loosen up when I’m at a party because I have a little social anxiety. Then we look at self. I need alcohol to help me get through parenting, for example. So we really unpack these layers of substance, society, and self. There are a lot of ways that alcohol has been socially presented to us culturally, like the mommy wine culture, for example. We look at these ways and we get to ask ourselves, gosh, is it really true? What does it mean that I have to have wine to parent my children? What is the message there, and is that really true? So we spend a lot of time asking, is that true, and noticing where alcohol’s accepted messaging around the alcohol industry and the way alcohol is used shows up in our lives. We really want to look at that and think, is that really true? How’s that showing up in my life? And is that what I want to be showing up in my life? Laurie:I love that you mentioned two things. One is the mommy wine culture and how it’s just so acceptable or even expected that drinking wine is what we need to do to cope or to be a good parent. That has been so irritating to me for so long. It’s like, what does that mean? I love the specific phrase about the beliefs that we have around alcohol. Is this true? So many times, like in the messaging around advertising, alcohol companies, beer companies, the messages we receive, so many of us don’t stop to think, wait a minute, is that true? Do I have any evidence to prove that? What would it look like if I just suspended that belief for a second and lived my life that way? What would that look like? How exciting would that be? How interesting? What would I learn? Teri:Yeah. And here’s an interesting example. If alcohol really helped with stress, would you want your brain surgeon to take a drink before they started working? Because you don’t want them stressed. You want them focused and relaxed. Would you want your child going into the SAT to take a shot of alcohol because we want them to be relaxed? When we start to think about it in terms of what the messaging is and what actually is true, it’s kind of laughable. We don’t want our brain surgeon drinking alcohol. So then we get to ask, does it really relax people? And then we get to use that curiosity and explore. Laurie:I think that’s probably something a lot of people have been missing, because this is just what we do. It’s just so socially acceptable. When you work with clients and we’re exploring alcohol in our lives and our health, what are some of the myths or pitfalls that you see people buying into or falling into as they investigate these relationships? Teri:I think probably the biggest one is this idea that we need to stop drinking, that behavior is the most important part. I like to say behavior comes last. The methodology I use is if someone comes to me wanting to change their relationship with alcohol and they’re still drinking, the first thing we do is quit trying to quit. We take what we call a pause. This is counterintuitive, but we stop putting willpower and judgment and rules around drinking, and we start exploring why. Why do I like to have a drink? Do I like it, or do I feel like I have to have it? Do I feel like I can’t stop, or do I feel like I’m not sure I want to stop? We bring curiosity and knowledge into what’s behind the drinking before we change the behavior. During the pause, we practice mindful drinking. We might notice that it’s three o’clock in the afternoon and we’re already thinking about drinking later. Then we ask, what just happened? Am I tired? Am I stressed? Do I need a walk? Do I need water? Do I need food? When we get home, we notice habits. Maybe it’s automatic to pour a glass of wine. What if we start with protein? What if we wait ten minutes? No judgment. Behavior comes last. Laurie:There was so much there. What I love is that this is like mindful eating. If we’ve been living with diet rules and we can eat at this time and we can’t eat after eight o’clock, what would it look like if instead of mindlessly following rules or giving into habits, we put some awareness behind it and said, what’s happening when I have this feeling or this craving? What’s actually going on around me? What’s going on inside me? What is it that makes me want to reach for that to solve this problem or soothe or comfort or whatever it looks like? That sounds like a really forgiving way to start exploring. We’re not doing cold tofurkey, I call it, because I don’t eat meat. We’re not using all our willpower to resist. We’re really learning about how we’ve been interacting with alcohol and how we’ve been using alcohol in our lives. The data point piece, I love this. How do you learn unless you have an experience? You’re not just not drinking, you’re drinking and then you can say, here’s what happened. Maybe something didn’t go the way I wanted. What was happening before? What happened during? What can I learn from this? It’s about learning the patterns we’ve grooved around alcohol and consumption. Teri:Yes. And there’s this beautiful framework where we talk about the four C’s. This comes from the work of another coach, but we think confidence is what we need first. And actually, just like behavior, confidence comes last. The first thing is commitment. We commit to exploring our relationship with alcohol with curiosity, grace, and compassion. Then comes courage. We step out and do the thing. Then the third piece, which is the most important, is capability. This is where data points come in. Capability takes practice. We don’t practice by doing it perfectly. We practice by trying something, noticing what worked, noticing what didn’t, and adjusting. We might realize, oh, I thought my data point was when my partner was irritated with me, but now I’m realizing it’s when I’m irritated with anyone. Those insights are incredibly valuable. Then, after commitment, courage, and capability, confidence comes. That’s when people say, okay, I think I’ve got this. I’m going to keep going. I’m going to extend my break. What happens on the other side of not drinking is that people don’t realize how much alcohol impacts them until it’s gone. It’s like food sensitivities. If someone is sensitive to gluten but always eating gluten, they won’t know how good they could feel until they remove it. The same thing happens with alcohol. People start sleeping better. They wake up with more energy. Cravings reduce. Mood improves. Life feels lighter. They try new things. Often, they don’t want to go back to the place where life felt just a little less than. Laurie:I love that you mentioned grace and courage. Grace because you’re doing something new and you might suck at it. And that’s okay. A lot of people suck at things when they first start. You have to give yourself grace and be willing to try again. And courage to keep going until you build the toolset to handle it. That four C framework sounds like a very encouraging and nurturing place to start exploring your relationship with alcohol. Laurie:One thing that’s coming up for people is alcohol consumption during the holidays. As a social lubricant, as a stress management tool, as an ever-present party guest. What are some tools or suggestions you have for listeners going into the holidays to bring awareness to their alcohol consumption? Teri:It depends a little on someone’s goal, but let’s say someone wants to cut back and explore drinking less and they have a lot of boozy events coming up. The first thing is to check in with yourself. Are you going to these events because you feel like you have to, and alcohol is the only way you’ll get through them? Can you cut back on some events? Instead of a boozy dinner, maybe you do a cookie baking night or a holiday movie night. The second thing is making a firm plan. Decision fatigue is real. If you decide ahead of time that this is a non-drinking night, that helps. Maybe you’re the designated driver. Maybe you leave early. Maybe you hit the gym the next morning. There are beautiful mocktails and non-alcoholic beers now. You can plan what you’ll drink ahead of time. The third thing is what we call a buddy, a plan, and an excuse. You tell a friend you’re not drinking. They can help if things get awkward. And you give yourself permission to leave if things get messy. Visualization helps too. Play it forward. Is alcohol really going to serve me at a work event? Laurie:Those are great tips, especially for professional events. When I worked in an office, I always thought these are not the people who need to see me after a few drinks. That’s not the vision I want them to have of me on Monday. So those are really helpful holiday-centered tips. Laurie:Teri, can we talk about how people can work with you and what it looks like to be in a program with you? Teri:I work with people one-on-one to take a break from alcohol. You can find me at thesobernutritionist.com. I also host The Sober Edge podcast, where I share inspiring stories of people who’ve stopped drinking and what opened up for them on the other side. I’m also launching a program in November called The Self Experience. This is for women who’ve taken a break from alcohol and want more connection, growth, and intention. It’s about applying the four C’s after alcohol. Setting intention. Knowing yourself. Growing. Loving yourself. Being yourself. You can find more information on my website. Laurie:Perfect. I’ll have all of the links in the show notes so people can connect with you. You also have a free gift for listeners, your Five Reasons to Take a Break from Alcohol guide. We’ll link that in the show notes as well. Laurie:I’d like to wrap up with your top three tips, but those holiday tips were really strong. Do you have three more for us? Teri:Alcohol is going to be around us no matter what. It’s at ball games, barbecues, everywhere. One thing that helps is getting comfortable talking about taking a break. You might say, I’m exploring. I’m doing a thirty-day challenge. Alcohol wasn’t serving me. Alcohol is the only drug we have to justify not taking. So have your intention. Say it with confidence and pride. This is your wellness. You get to choose how you want to feel in five or ten years. One of the most beautiful things about letting go of alcohol is being more present in your own life and with other people. There’s no replacement for that. Laurie:Those are great tips. Thank you so much for being here, Teri. Frequently Asked Questions About Your Relationship With Alcohol What does “relationship with alcohol” mean? Your relationship with alcohol refers to how drinking fits into your life emotionally, physically, and socially. It includes why you drink, how often you drink, how it makes you feel, and whether it supports or complicates your health, stress levels, and relationships. How can my relationship with alcohol impact my health? Alcohol can affect sleep, energy, mood, digestion, hormones, and stress response. Even moderate drinking may impact health in ways people don’t immediately connect to alcohol, especially when it becomes a regular coping tool rather than a conscious choice. Can alcohol affect relationships even if I don’t drink “too much”? Yes. Alcohol can influence communication, emotional availability, patience, and presence. Some people notice increased conflict, disconnection, or emotional distance, while others realize they rely on alcohol to feel relaxed or social in relationships. Do I need to quit drinking to improve my relationship with alcohol? No. Improving your relationship with alcohol does not automatically mean quitting forever. Many people start by simply becoming more aware of when, why, and how they drink, and then decide what level of alcohol use feels supportive for them. How is exploring alcohol different from restriction? Restriction is driven by rules, guilt, or “shoulds.” Exploring your relationship with alcohol is about curiosity and choice. You’re paying attention to how alcohol affects you and deciding what aligns with your health and values, without labels or pressure. What are signs my relationship with alcohol might be worth exploring? Some common signs include thinking about drinking often, using alcohol to manage stress or emotions, feeling conflicted about how much you drink, noticing health changes, or spending a lot of mental energy trying to moderate. How is alcohol similar to diet culture patterns? Alcohol moderation often mirrors diet culture, with rules, bargaining, and mental calculations. Exploring your relationship with alcohol can reveal familiar patterns like all-or-nothing thinking, guilt, or relying on external rules instead of internal cues. Can taking a break from alcohol improve mental clarity? Many people report better sleep, improved mood, more stable energy, and clearer thinking after taking a break. A break can provide valuable insight into how alcohol affects your nervous system and daily life. What’s a supportive first step to explore my relationship with alcohol? Start by noticing without judgment. Pay attention to when you want a drink, what’s happening around you, how you feel before and after, and what need you’re hoping alcohol will meet. Awareness often leads to clarity without force.

Listen to the Episode with Sarah BurbyEpisode Transcript – Intuitive Eating with Sarah BurbyFAQ with Sarah BurbyMeet Sarah Burby M.A., BCBA, NBC-HWC Listen to the Episode with Sarah Burby Episode Transcript – Intuitive Eating with Sarah Burby Welcome everyone, I am here with Sarah Burby who is a health coach and she’s the owner of Small Changes Health and Wellness Coaching where she supports and empowers her clients to meet their health and wellness goals by focusing on small, sustainable changes that they can maintain for the rest of their lives. She also helps her clients heal their relationship with food and exercise as well as improve their body image.  Laurie: Welcome Sarah. I’m actually really excited about this episode because this is the meat, I hate to use, I don’t eat meat, but the meat of like what this whole brand is about.  So having coaches, you know, intuitive eating, health at every size, really promoting that weight neutral approach to health is really important. So I’m excited. So start kind of at the beginning.  What brought you to this point? What is your origin story?  Sarah Burby: Yeah, so I have kind of a long and not very straight way.  I got a master’s degree in applied behavior analysis. And typically ABA is most commonly associated with autism. So working with with children, adults on the autism spectrum. And I think there’s a great need for that. And I think I will always love working in that space in some capacity.  But I just thought, you know, how cool would it be to apply the science of applied behavior analysis to health and wellness. And at the time when I was in graduate school, which feels like yesterday, but was like 10, 11 years ago, no one is really doing that yet. Everyone was saying, oh, you can apply ABA anywhere. But but it was really only widely applied to autism. So at the time, being new in the field and not really having my feet wet yet, I just didn’t have, I guess, maybe the confidence or the direction of how to get into this field. So then kind of fast forward, a few years later, I started really taking on some additional certifications.  I got a health coaching certification, a nutrition certification, most recently an intuitive eating counselor certification and just started to kind of build up my expertise in that area. So then I could feel confident in applying ABA to health coaching.  Sarah Burby: So in 2020, the famous 2020 year, I opened Small Changes Health and Wellness Coaching, where I primarily coach based using the science of ABA, but with an intuitive eating framework.  Laurie: So it sounded like you were kind of like on a teacher track, like you were going to be a teacher. Very similar school conflict, working in school as a consultant.  But you took the knowledge that you gained and you said, oh, you know what, I really want to apply this to health and health and wellness. What prompted you to want to apply it in that area?  Sarah Burby: I think I’ve always been really interested in that area. Personally, I’ve had my own personal journey of poor body image and kind of orthorexic type behavior with this obsession with being healthy. And I went through that and I had that struggle and it I went through it for for many years. I aspire now to be what I wish I had 15, 10, 15 years ago. So that’s kind of what piqued my interest. And again, to me, the science of applied behavior analysis just so naturally flowed into health coaching, right? Because behavior is behavior, whether we’re talking about maybe reducing maladaptive behavior and then individual with autism and trying to teach some replace the behaviors or we’re talking about, you know, behavior as far as your relationship with exercise, your relationship with food.  To me, it’s all it’s all the same thing, right? It’s just how we address it. So I think that’s kind of where my interest kind of sparked.  Laurie: So it was your own personal journey that that shaped the direction that you you saw you saw an opportunity to take what you were learning and apply it in a way that would have been helpful for you for your own personal experience. And I love that we are seeing now so many coaches and trainers.  It has really come a long way in the last few years and recognizing the harm that’s being done with, you know, pushing over exercising, under eating, calorie counting, all that stuff. Really the long-term effects of it. So we talk a lot here about intuitive eating. Can you talk about how intuitive eating and mindfulness are integrated into the process that you use with your clients?  Sarah Burby: Yeah, so and the missing of your listeners already have a backstory of what intuitive eating is, but just a quick, you know, recap. It’s really healing your relationship with food, healing your relationship with exercise, and also healing your relationship with yourself, right?  Like, like, what do you think of yourself when you look in the mirror? Do you do like what you see? And if you don’t like what you see, are you perseverating on it all day? Is that constantly what you’re thinking about? And to me, that’s health, right?  Like we think about health and we think about what we eat and we think about exercise, but we don’t think about this constant, what the constant stress of constantly worrying about what you’re eating and you’re putting into your body or constantly worrying about if you’re getting the most intense exercise in, like that affects our health so much too. Sarah Burby: So with intuitive eating, I really like to, number one, work with my clients and say, it’s not just eating, right? The name intuitive eating is we think it’s just eating skills, but it’s so much more raw than that. And there’s so many different areas we can work on.  Like I said, with exercise, repairing your relationship with exercise and movement, how you, how you feel about yourself and kind of breaking down maybe what area of the client is struggling the most, starting with that, and then going into all the different aspects of intuitive eating. I do appreciate that you gave us that description of what intuitive eating is because they could be the first time here and learning about that. So this is really important. You just mentioned that, you know, Learning to eat intuitively can impact mental health, physical health. Why is that important?  Sarah Burby: There’s such a strong focus or push, if that’s the right word, on, on weight loss and looking a certain way and having this like ideal body.  And I think that was probably always around, but now with every social media app and platform there is out there, it’s certainly getting worse and it’s starting at a younger age. There’s this like pressure to have to look a certain way or eat a certain way. And that’s not reality, right? And it’s really, really harmful, but I also think it’s the norm.  So it’s really hard to kind of separate from that. And that’s where I see the importance of intuitive eating is like talking even about body diversity, right? I talk about that with my clients all the time is like you and I could literally eat the exact same thing every single day for the rest of our lives. We could exercise the exact same way every day for the rest of our lives. And we are never going to look exactly the same because we have a different genetic blueprint, but that’s not pretty to talk about on social media. That’s not glamorous. Sarah Burby: Like no one wants to post about that on social media because it’s not as glamorous as, Oh, I lost 30 pounds in a month by drinking the shake or going on this diet. You know what I mean? So I think intuitive eating is more, it’s a little bit deeper, but I think it’s so, so important because of all these messages that we’re getting.  And I kind of say the opposite and kind of glamorize really restricted eating or over exercise and things like that to get, like I said, this ideal body, which is so silly because what does that even look like? It’s an illusion, right? And unfortunately we live in a world where being in a smaller body is idealized, right? We live in a world that favors people in smaller bodies. So I don’t, I don’t shame anybody and I don’t fault anybody for having the feelings like, Oh, you know what, I look in the mirror and I wish that, you know, smaller because you know what? Your life would maybe be easier, right?  This is the world that we live in, but we’re all doing our part here to normalize, like you said, body diversity and acceptance and respect for people in all different shapes, sizes. I love that this is becoming more widespread and people like you are sharing the good word. And especially on social media where you said it’s teens, young adults on these platforms and they’re being bombarded by all this messaging. So I love that this is, this is becoming more popular. So we talked a little bit about diet culture, the prevalence of this messaging and how harmful it is.  What are some, some negative impacts that you’re seeing on your clients due to exposure to diet culture?  Sarah Burby: Oh, I see a lot, a lot of, um, labeling how they eat as good or bad, right? So like I ate a salad last night, I was good. Or I ate ice cream last night, I was bad. And, and that breaks my heart when I hear things like that, because I’m like, well, did you enjoy the ice cream? Yeah. Okay. Like, like their food is neutral, right? It’s not good or bad. But if you look at diet culture and again, social media, it’s, it’s, um, putting food into these categories.  Even the term clean heat, clean eating. Like I hate that term so much because I hate, I hate that. I hate it. It’s awful. And, and think about if you’re, if you’re calling something clean, like it’s typically like organic, or I think maybe like whole foods, like fruits and vegetables, but that’s such a privileged statement to make because what if a family can’t afford to eat quote unquote clean? Like who’s not to say that they’re, what are you saying that their food and what they eat is dirty? Like, how does that make someone else feel?  So I’ve had to have clients come to me and say, you know, I can’t afford to eat quote unquote clean. Um, like, what do I do? Am I doomed? I’m like, no, you’re not doomed. Like it’s just, that’s just diet culture telling you that you have to eat this certain way, or again, you have to look a certain way. A lot of clients have come to me from diet culture that have tried like really intense workouts where you like work out twice a day for 75 days.  And if you miss a day, you have to start back at one again. And like all this like negative self-talk that they, that they’ve come to me with was like, I couldn’t do that. You know, I have no willpower. I’m not strong enough. And it’s like so heartbreaking. I’m like, not you, it’s this ideal that you have to be doing this extreme workout and eating behavior.  But you know, diet companies make so much money off of us buying into these things. And they’re meant to fail, when they fail then we feel badly about ourselves. And we do it again and it fails. And then we feel badly about ourselves. So it’s this whole big, vicious cycle.  Thank you for pointing out that all of these programs are designed to set us up for failure to keep us on this roller coaster, this loop of feel like we’ve made progress, quote unquote, and then your body does what it does. And now you’re back where you started. And now you’re seeing that as failure. And not to mention one of the most common side effects of intentional weight loss is long-term weight gain. So an industry that makes money off of you trying to lose weight, knowing, knowing that whatever they sell to you is going to put you back where you started or, or higher, it’s a billion dollar industry for lots of good reasons. Sarah Burby: Right. Yeah. And also like, there’s a ton of research coming out talking about the dangers of weight fluctuation, right? So like diet cultures, advertisers, you know, lose weight, it’s good for your health or all this kind of stuff. But really that dangers of weight cycling, even those five to 10 pounds, if you’re constantly gaining, losing, gaining, losing, that’s a lot more dangerous than being five pounds heavier, lighter, whatever the case may be, you know, and that’s not talked about enough is the danger, the dangers of constantly fluctuating on your weight.  Sarah Burby: I agree that it’s a danger and it’s not talked about because there’s no money to be made in letting people stay in larger bodies for that industry, then nobody wants to talk about it. Let’s jump into intuitive eating, adopting an intuitive eating practice and what some misconceptions people might have about what that looks like and the impact that it can have. The two biggest misconceptions that I see are number one is if I eat intuitively, I’m just gonna eat like chocolate and donuts and ice cream all day, every day for the rest of my life. And that’s just not true. I hear that from people that maybe did like a quick Google search, read an article about what intuitive eating is, and then just kind of made that assumption. But it’s not true. It’s really about giving yourself that unconditional permission to eat because we know once we label a food as bad, quote unquote, or off limits, we’re immediately going to want that food more. It’s just a natural response. When we deprive ourselves of anything, we’re immediately going to want that more. It’s kind of wild if you give yourself permission to say, I feel like having a donut, I’m going to have a donut and I’m going to enjoy it. I’m not going to feel guilty if I eat it. Once you learn to do that, which takes time, depending on your learning history, you learn to eat a donut or two donuts and whatever the amount of donuts is and you feel satisfied and then you move on to something else and you can kind of get in tune with your body and what it craves different times of the day and things like that. So I think that’s one misconception that I hear quite frequently. And another one I hear a lot is like, I let myself eat intuitively And that’s how I got to this point where I’m really unhappy in my own in my own body. And I would never tell somebody that that’s incorrect if that’s how they truly feel.  But when I dig a little deeper typically, but are you really giving yourself that unconditional permission to eat? Are you really letting go of food labels of good and bad, clean, unclean, what you should and shouldn’t be eating? The answer is usually no. So why they might think that they’re eating intuitively, they have that kind of little diet culture voice in the back of their head that’s really not truly embracing intuitively eating to the fullest extent. And so that’s why they kind of have those, those feelings.  I’m going to add on to yours because I’ve, you know, when I talk to people about intuitive eating, they almost feel like if they follow an intuitive eat, if they adopt an intuitive eating practice, they’re going to lose weight because their body is just naturally going to like go to quote unquote where they think it should be. Right. So they’re like, oh, if I stop obsessing, just let my body do this thing. So way to make my body smaller and intuitive eating has nothing to do with body size. Sarah Burby: Yeah, yeah. So that’s a good point too. And I try to make that very clear, even when I do initial consultations is I cannot guarantee that you will gain weight, you might gain weight, you might lose weight, you might say exactly the same, like it just depends on so many different things, right? No one can predict that when you become an intuitive eater, what will happen to your body. But I have heard that as well as like intuitive eating for weight loss almost. The other misconception that I get like to kind of go back to your first point was people don’t trust themselves, right? Because they have this history of restrictive eating, they say, oh, I can’t just eat whatever because I’ve restricted myself for 20 years and I’m just going to go buck wild and I won’t be able to stop. So they fear not having that control and they they don’t know what’s going to happen. Sarah Burby: Yeah. And I think that’s a valid fear. And I think that’s like, that is something that we explore quite a bit. And that’s where it goes into all these different principles of intuitive eating, because for people that have dieted for a long time, they actually lose that sense of hunger and that sense of fullness. So like, for example, people that chronically count calories or count macros or whatever it is, you’re thinking think about it, you’re constantly eating on a schedule, you’re eating to a certain to hit a certain goal of this many carbs or this many fats and proteins, or you’re going to limit yourself to this many calories. So that’s five o’clock and you hit your max calories for the day, regardless if you’re hungry or not, you’re not eating if you’re following a diet like that, right? So after a while, you start to lose that feeling of hunger and that feeling of fullness. So I think that’s even a lot of it with intuitive eating is and it sounds like so silly almost, but it’s relearning hunger and fullness cues. So you don’t eat to the point where you feel really sick. And maybe when you’re a new intuitive eater, maybe it happens once or twice or it happens a few times. So you have that experience and you say, okay, what did you learn from that? And usually they say, awful, I felt terrible. It was, I felt sluggish and I did. Okay, that was a learning experience. Now we know for next time, how do you know you’re starting to get full or how do you know that you’re hungry, right? So it’s all kind of all these different 10 principles. Really, they’re all so intertwined. The whole like, I don’t even know what hunger feels like, or I’ve learned to ignore it. I’ve learned to tune it out. My body doesn’t even feel hungry anymore because it knows it can ask all it wants. It’s not going to get anything. So and information, your body needs energy. It needs nutrition. It’s trying to communicate with you like, don’t ignore it. Please. Yeah, yeah. Our bodies know a lot. They were willing to listen. It’s kind of crazy. So when we talk about learning to identify hunger and fullness cues, what are some things that your clients have said to you about their experience that they were like surprised about that in particular, one of the ways that I usually, you know, kind of teach that skill is is looking at like a lot of the hunger skills, right? So on a level of one through 10, one being like, I am super hangry. I’m going to anything and everything and 10 being like, I am so uncomfortably full. I feel like I’m going to get sick almost right. And having client will go through like, you know, what is a two look like for you? What is a seven look like for you? And kind of set a goal of like, okay, this week I want to start eating when I’m at a four rather than a one where I’m starving and feel like I’m out of control.And I want to stop eating when I’m at a seven versus a 10. Right. For example. And having clients kind of self monitor and learn that skill. It’s kind of like this aha moment, like, wow, like I didn’t even realize I was doing this because I think again, so many times it’s a habit of restricting, right? So like not eating, not eating, not eating. And they don’t even realize how hungry they are or why they’re that hungry.And a lot of it is eating so much where again, it’s not even like really when we talk about like the satisfaction factor of intuitive eating, they might be eating foods and what they feel like is a large quantity, but they’re not even enjoying it. It’s just, it’s, and when we work on intuitive eating and slowing now and monitoring your hunger and fullness, it gets easier of our time and then they’re, they’re enjoying their food more. It’s a more pleasant eating experience, storing eating after eating. So I think it’s like a really big, like I said, like aha moment of I didn’t even realize this was how it was happening internally in my body, because they were just kind of on autopilot. So you’re bringing in like some mindfulness practice at the same time to be present while they’re eating. What are the, what are they feeling? What are the sensations? What’s happening, you know, inside, outside, all around and really just being present for it. Sarah Burby: Yeah. Yeah. And even just taking like stopping mid-meal, right? And just, I invite clients to take a note of how you feel mid-meal. Like do you feel satisfied? Do you feel, are you enjoying the food? What’s your environment like? Is it chaotic? You know, is it peaceful? And then again, you can kind of then go in some more detail of like what, what foods do you prefer or not prefer? Like you, what textures do you prefer and not prefer? What smells do you prefer and not prefer? Because again, you’re really almost relearning how to eat again, because for so long, whether it be a month or years and years that you were following this diet culture, whatever restrictive diet it was, you lose so many of those basic skills without even realizing it.  You just made me remember something about when you talk about relearning the foods you actually like and you don’t like, because when you follow, you know, when you’re a chronic dieter or, you know, you’re so entrenched in diet culture, you have food lists. And there are foods that you automatically choose because they are quote unquote, a better choice healthier, right? Like brown, always choose brown rice over white rice or wheat bread over white bread. When I did this, I found out I realized I hate brown rice. It is not good. I don’t like it. It’s disgusting. I love white rice. And the freedom to just say, you know what, I would rather have white rice. And you know what, if I have a big bowl of it, great. And I mean, I gave myself permission to eat as much of it as I wanted. I found, you know what, I can eat actually the same amount or less. It doesn’t and I’m not even measuring it. I’m not obsessing about it, but I it’s so much more enjoyable to have the rice I want to eat enough when I feel like I’m supposed to eat.  Sarah Burby: Totally, totally. And that’s so common. And even with like, like cookies or things like that, I have clients come to me and they’re like, I ate an Oreo and it was so good. Like I’m so good at eating these like cookies, but they’re not really cookies because they taste disgusting. I don’t even like them. cookies with the rocks and sticks in them that have fiber that they’re like, that you can feel like you’re gnawing on it and you’re like, right? Yeah, yeah. That’s your cookie, right? Nick, no, have a real cookie. Um, one of the other things that I love about intuitive eating and the trepidation really of having that freedom is that people are afraid that they’re going to do it wrong.  Sarah Burby: Yes. And what I love about intuitive eating is there are no mistakes. It’s all information. Yeah. And I think that mindset comes from again, chronically counting calories or counting macros, or I don’t even know what the popular diets were before that.Right. But it was either met your goal, your dinner, right? It was either like black or white. It’s black or white.Yeah. And intuitive eating is so not black or white, which is really hard for people to, I think, understand at first because, you know, you’re so used to this rigid all or nothing black and white thinking. But like you said, it is so not intuitive eating. There’s no literally no right or wrong way to do it. Everything is a learning experience all about getting attuned with, reattuned with your body. At the end of the day, we know our body’s best, you know, so there’s nothing that we can do that that’s right or wrong. There’s no having a good day or a bad day. Like that just those terms just don’t exist, which I think is, is the really awesome thing about it. Like there’s no guilt involved. There’s no shame involved. There’s nothing like I feel bad because I did or didn’t you X, Y, and Z. I mean, it’s so freeing to be able to have that perspective. Extremely freeing and it’s it’s all about just relearning how to eat and trust yourself. Having that freedom to say, okay, I’m exploring what feels good and what hunger and fullness look like for me, what kind of foods I do want and don’t want to eat. So Sarah, let’s talk a little bit about how you work with your clients and what that looks like in terms of your coaching program and other sessions that you offer. Yeah, so I offer primarily one to one coaching starts at 12 weeks. It can go anywhere to 24 weeks. I don’t really like to put a timestamp on it because like I said, everyone’s journey is different. I don’t want anyone to feel badly if they did 12 weeks of coaching and they don’t feel like they’re, they’re fully ready. And it’s totally common. Again, there’s so many different factors that play into how you develop intuitive eating skills, but basically clients come to me that are like, I’m done. I’m done dieting. I’m done restricting myself. I’m done feeling trapped in my own, in my own skin and my own body. And I’m ready to, I’m ready to do this. And I just need some support. I need some guidance. And that’s, that’s where we start. So we start with the first session incorporate, like you said, a lot of mindfulness, a lot of acceptance and commitment therapy, because a lot of learning, intuitive eating, and to me is it’s a lot of mental things, right? It’s a lot of things with our mind. So we learn a lot about how to unhook, but really to like separate from those unhelpful thoughts, those diet culture thoughts or those thoughts that you’ve had about food, about your, about your body, whatever it may be for so long. And it’s like really, again, there’s no set structure as of like week one, we cover this week, two, we cover this because it really depends on your own, on your own personal experience and what’s showing up for you and what particular area you’re struggling in most. And we might focus on the principle of honoring your hunger and for one client that might take a week and for another client that might take four or five weeks, and there’s no right or wrong way, you know, that it’s okay, everyone’s going to be different. So, you know, the length of time that we go through each of the 10 principles and, and maybe you’re okay with a couple principles that maybe you’re really struggling with, with finding peace of movement and maybe the whole 12 sessions, we’re just working on finding peace of movement and that’s okay too. So it’s super individualized to wherever you are in your intuitive eating journey. So if somebody wants to get started with you, what does that look like?  Sarah Burby: Every client starts with a free initial consultation. And that’s just to get a good idea of what the client is most interested in working on. Really, they can ask me anything and making sure that we’re that’s where the right fit, because I want that potential client to feel comfortable working with me confident working with me. And if someone comes to me and says, you know, I strictly want to work on weight loss and nothing but weight loss, we’re probably not the best fit. And that’s okay. I just don’t want someone to sign up for a coaching package and kind of have expectations that are different than what might happen during one to one coaching. So free 20 minute consultation session that can be found on my website, on Instagram, Facebook, the link to the free session is all on there. And then after that, we decide that we’re a good fit, then we go right into the first session of coaching.  Okay, Sarah, you actually have something free for our listeners – It’s called intuitive eating five myths debunked about intuitive eating. We’ll put the link to this in the show notes so that the listeners can grab this. And if you’d like to connect with Sarah, you are on Instagram, you’re on Facebook. And we’re also going to link to your beautiful website. We’ll also put your your scheduling link. So if somebody wants to jump on the phone with you and and get that consultation to see if they are a good fit to work with you, that will be there as well. Sarah, we’re going to wrap up. And what I’d like to do at the end of every episode is have our guests give us their top three tips. So go ahead and give me what you got. Sarah Burby: Tip number one, I would say is to kind of do a social media cleanse, right? So just be, try to be aware of who you’re following on social media, whatever your social media platform is, Instagram, TikTok, I don’t even know what’s out there anymore. But what you follow affects you more than you think it does. So and the things that you like and you comment on and share, you know, whatever algorithm it is, you’re going to see that content more. So it can be pretty eye opening to kind of just take a look at that and maybe stop following accounts that you find unhelpful or triggering or whatever the case may be. So tip number one is it’s just kind of look at your personal social media and, and do a little clean out.  Can I just say this is the only type of cleanse that I recommend?  Sarah Burby: Yes. I agree. I agree. Tip number two, and I don’t know if this is really a tip, but I think like, like a normalize challenging diet culture a bit and normalize, you know, going against the grain a bit And I think the more that we talk about it and the more that we normalize the fact that that often diet culture is really just disordered eating in disguise. And the more it, the more we make it the norm, the more impact that we’re going to have. I know it can be hard and uncomfortable to talk about that, that those topics at first, but I encourage people to do that even if it’s just with, with friends or family members and kind of along those lines, setting boundaries, right?  If you hear talk about diet culture or  someone says something that doesn’t sit right with you, speaking up and saying something about that, because again, those things seem so small, but they’re going to trickle down and have a really big impact, I think, in the only way that we’re going to kind of be able to shift the culture is if the more of us stand up and talk about it. I love the idea of normalizing destruct, you know, taking down diet culture, and really pointing out these innocuous or seemingly innocent comments or things that we’re doing that are really harmful to people who are struggling with, you know, any kind of disordered eating or eating disorders and really, and trying to get out of that. I would love to normalize not commenting on people’s appearance, you know, when they change, if somebody’s body gets bigger. FAQ with Sarah Burby Who is Sarah Burby? Sarah Burby, M.A., BCBA, NBC-HWC, is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst, National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, Certified K–6 Teacher, Precision Nutrition–certified coach, Barre Eclipse Instructor, and Adjunct Professor. She specializes in helping clients break free from diet culture, repair their relationship with food and movement, and build sustainable habits grounded in self-compassion. What is intuitive eating? Intuitive eating is a non-diet, evidence-based approach that helps individuals rebuild trust with their bodies, heal their relationship with food and exercise, and learn to listen to natural hunger and fullness cues. It emphasizes internal awareness over external rules, supports mental and physical well-being, and encourages unconditional permission to eat without shame, guilt, or restriction. VIEW INTUITIVE EATING on AMAZON (affiliate link) How does intuitive eating support mental and physical health? Intuitive eating reduces anxiety, obsessive food thoughts, and the shame often created by dieting. It also supports metabolic health by reducing weight cycling (repeated weight loss and regain), encourages mindful movement, and promotes more balanced eating patterns. Many people experience increased energy, improved body image, and reduced stress around food. What are some negative effects of diet culture that Sarah Burby sees in her clients? Common issues include:• Viewing foods as “good” or “bad”• Feeling guilt or shame after eating• Chronic dieting or restriction• Overexercise or rigid fitness expectations• Loss of hunger and fullness cues• Internalized weight stigma• Feeling like a “failure” when diets inevitably stop working Diet culture often leads to weight cycling, disordered eating patterns, and long-term harm to mental and physical well-being. Is intuitive eating just eating whatever you want, whenever you want? Sarah Burby: No. This is one of the biggest misconceptions. Intuitive eating isn’t about losing control—it’s about regaining trust, reconnecting with bodily cues, and enjoying a variety of foods without restriction. Once someone removes food rules and guilt, cravings typically normalize rather than intensify. Will intuitive eating make me lose weight? Sarah Burby: Intuitive eating is not a weight-loss strategy. Some people may lose weight, some may gain weight, and some may stay the same. The goal is to support your body in reaching its natural, sustainable set point, not pursuing a specific size. RELATED: Check out our Book Club post about the book Intuitive Eating How does Sarah Burby integrate ABA and ACT into her coaching? Sarah uses behavior science (ABA) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to help clients re-learn hunger and fullness cues, unhook from unhelpful thoughts, reduce all-or-nothing thinking, and build habits aligned with their values. Her coaching blends mindfulness, behavioral strategies, and intuitive eating principles. What does working with Sarah Burby look like? Sarah offers one-to-one coaching programs that typically span 12–24 weeks. Every client begins with a free 20-minute consultation to determine whether it’s the right fit. Coaching is individualized—no two programs look exactly alike—and focuses on the client’s unique relationship with food, movement, and body image. Does Sarah Burby offer any free resources? Yes! Sarah created “Five Myths About Intuitive Eating – Debunked,” a free guide to help you understand the basics and clear up confusion. The link is available in the show notes and on the episode page. Where can I learn more or schedule a consultation with Sarah Burby? You can connect with Sarah Burby on Instagram, Facebook, or through her website. The show notes include direct links to her scheduling page if you want to book a consultation or explore coaching. Is this episode medical advice? No. This episode is for educational and informational purposes only. Always consult with a qualified medical provider before making changes to your nutrition, fitness, or health routines. Meet Sarah Burby M.A., BCBA, NBC-HWC Sarah Burby is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA), National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach (NBC-HWC), Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, Certified K–6 Teacher, Precision Nutrition–certified coach, Barre Eclipse Instructor, and Adjunct Professor. Sarah Burby has extensive training in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) to support clients navigating body image concerns, disordered eating, and the long-term impact of growing up in diet-focused environments. Her coaching emphasizes sustainable, compassionate habits rooted in flexibility, autonomy, and self-trust. In addition to coaching, she provides mentorship for small business owners in the wellness space.

In this episode I’m chatting with Sarah Knight, who is a holistic nutritionist and founder of Eat Like a CEO. She helps entrepreneurial and professional women get out of the tired-wired cycle and have natural energy without relying on caffeine or sugar. Listen to the Episode We specifically talk about how meal planning is a form of self-care as we’re taking intentional action to reduce the stress for future us! What’s ahead…Listen to the EpisodeAbout SarahEpisode Transcript About Sarah Sarah Knight is a holistic nutritionist and founder of Eat Like a CEO. She helps entrepreneurial and professional women get out of the tired-wired cycle and have natural energy. She’s passionate about helping women systematize their nutrition to reduce decision fatigue and get the nutrients they need to have the energy, focus and confidence to make power moves in their businesses, careers and lives. Episode Transcript You know, getting off of diets and learning how to take care of yourself in a way that works for you and makes you feel good because ultimately it’s all about how you feel, right? Because your body is here to allow you to experience the world and I think that we flip that a lot and see our bodies as a way for other people to experience us and that’s not, that’s not what it’s for and it took me a long time to learn that.  Welcome everyone. I am here with Sarah Knight. She is a holistic nutritionist and she is the owner of EatLikeACEO.com and she helps women who own their own business or even if you are just entrepreneurially minded or driven to eat healthy and eat in a way that promotes lots of energy, better sleep and just better living in general. Welcome, Sarah. Sarah Knight: Thank you so much for having me. I am really excited. This isn’t about me, but I’m really excited because I, you know, as you know, I’m a business owner and I need help eating like a CEO because right now I eat like a five-year-old.Okay, so I need, I definitely need help in this department. What I like to do is I like to just start at the beginning like your origin story. So what brought you to this point? How you, your, your background, how you became a holistic nutritionist and got you to this point?  Sarah Knight: Yeah, so when I was in about second grade, I had this experience that I remember so vividly… Oh, we’re going way back. We’re going way back. Oh, okay. All right.  Sarah Knight: my best friend at the time, you know, the boys thought it was hilarious because when she was sitting in a chair at a desk they could push it in to the point where the chair was almost touching the desk with her sitting in it and that is the point where I became very conscious of my body. And from that point on, I was really focused on losing weight. So from the time I was about 12 years old, so that was like the beginning. And then when I hit about 12, you know, I was starting to look for different diets. I joined Weight Watchers before I could drive. Sarah Knight: I remember putting myself on the special K diet where you eat half a cup of cereal for two meals a day. And this is when I was in high school. I was playing volleyball. I was a very active teenager and I felt miserable. Like I would get home from school or from practice and I would go straight to sleep until dinner because I was exhausted and I didn’t want to be awake to feel how hungry I was. And so after living that life for my entire teens and early 20s, when I was in college, I realized like this isn’t working for me. So I need a better way. I need to learn how to just take care of my body so that I can feel good, so that I can have the energy to get through, you know, college and school and work and be able to focus when I’m studying and actually remember things. So I started working with the nutritionist at the School Wellness Center. I was really lucky to have that access. And that’s what kind of sparked for me, this idea that being healthy and feeling good. It doesn’t have to be all about restriction and it doesn’t have to be hard and miserable, which is what I had been led to believe up until that point. So all of us. Yes, we all we all got fed that that nonsense.  Sarah Knight: So that is what got me to being really interested in nutrition and how to eat to just feel good and take care of myself. And then from college, I started a corporate career. I realized that was not the place for me. And so I went back to school and studied holistic nutrition, earned my holistic nutrition certification from Bowman College. And now here I am. OK, so this gets you to the point where you are a holistic nutritionist, but you specifically work with entrepreneurs or people. You could be working literally with any demographic, but you are focused on helping CEOs and those who are professionally driven. Why is that?  Sarah Knight: Because I believe that in order to make big moves, to go for big goals like that, to run a business, to be ambitious in your career and strive for more impact and influence, you need to have energy and focus and productivity. All of that requires physical and mental stamina to be successful. And so I’m really passionate about helping women learn how to eat, to have that stamina, to feel good, to support their mental health so that what they eat is not taking up all of their mental energy anymore. They have systems in place to know what they’re going to have. They don’t have to think about it. It eliminates a lot of the decision fatigue that women experience in daily life. And that all adds up. So if I can take that burden away, help them systematize their nutrition so that they’re eating well, they know they’re getting the nutrients they need and they’re feeling good. And then they have all of this energy to put toward building their business or being promoted in their career or running for office or writing a book or raising a family, whatever that is, that can become their primary focus instead of just being worried about what they’re going to have for dinner. OK, I know we we talked a little before the call, but I am your ideal client. Like I need help with all of this because I have the decision fatigue like the whole like creating a meal plan and making a shopping list and prepping and all of this stuff. Like if you leave this up to me, I will eat sandwiches and cereal because I just don’t have the bandwidth. I run my own business and it’s exhausting. And by the by the end of the day or by the time I have time to think about what I’m going to eat, I don’t have the energy to make decisions. And it drives my husband insane. But like you said, like that decision fatigue or the mental fatigue of making those decisions, I just I relate with that because that is where I am by the end of the day or by the end of the week. I can’t I don’t have the wherewithal to do to do any of that. So what I wanted to kind of talk to you, you know, here at results without restriction, we’re all about self-care. And meal prep is a is a form of self-care rate because we’re managing our time to kind of help future us. You know, we’re alleviating some of the pain and aggravation of of doing all this work for future us.  So can we talk a little bit about how you help your clients give themselves the space or permission that some of them might need to indulge in this self-care and meal prep as self-care?  Sarah Knight: One thing I talk with my clients about a lot is don’t make it harder than it has to be and don’t strive for perfection. Like I used to have this mindset. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing, which is something that, you know, we learn from diet culture where you’re eating that’s not sustainable.  So you revert to maybe like for me in college, sometimes it was Pop-Tarts and tortilla chips. And so it’s just this pendulum. And I think that that all or nothing mindset stays with us even when we let the diets go. And so just learning, like, you know, if buying pre-chopped vegetables is the thing that makes this feel easier for you. And it means that you’re more likely to prep some food for yourself than if you bought a head of broccoli that you have to wash and chop yourself. Then do that. Like buy the frozen vegetables, if that’s what’s going to work for you. Find like that sweet spot where you’re taking care of yourself, but you’re not making it so hard that it feels like a burden.  So path of least resistance.  Sarah Knight: Yes. And in terms of like just being able to put together meals so that, you know, when we get hangry or, you know, we are and I’m guilty of this. I’ll be working and I don’t even notice the clock. Like hours go by and I’m like, oh, I forgot to eat lunch. Like I was so engrossed in what I was doing. And then and then it hits me and I’m starving and there’s nothing ready.  Sarah Knight: Yeah. And I’m like, I want to go back in time and punch myself in the face for not setting myself up for some kind of success here. But it’s almost like, you know, if we could do that thing for ourselves, that self care of putting together planning for future you to have something healthy to eat, to help keep your energy up.  Sarah Knight: Yes, exactly. Do you talk a lot with your, with your clients about self care, just kind of in general and not just in meal prep, in the, in the area of meal prep, but just in general of how they treat themselves?  Sarah Knight: Yeah. We talk a lot about like the internal dialogue that’s playing and stress management, because when you have chronic stress, that is a huge impact on your health and also how you take care of yourself.  Because for a lot of my clients, like, you know, they have big businesses or demanding careers and there’s a lot of stress that builds up. And then that sparks cravings and, you know, this desire for food that they know is not going to serve them. They’re not going to feel good after they eat it, but they still want it. So we talk about, you know, sustainable stress management, where you’re managing your stress every day so that when it does peak, you already have those practices in place. And so what could have been a 10, had you not been keeping a baseline stress management plan, now maybe it’s a seven or an eight instead of being that 10 and that’s more manageable.  I love the idea but I’m not great about doing it myself. We’re talking about sustainable stress management, right?  having practices in place and do you help your clients with those things specifically or do you kind of help guide them to what works for them individually?  Sarah Knight: Yeah, everything is individual. I’m a huge believer that there is no one size fits all plan, whether it’s your nutrition program or stress management plan and everything in between. You have to find what works for you, but I’m all about practicality. So I know that sometimes it’s not practical to sit down for half an hour and meditate in the morning. But can you do one minute of deep breathing while you’re still in the bathroom after you brushed your teeth before your kids jump all over you, right? So finding something that’s a good starting point that’s going to get you headed in the right direction.  And I’m sure other people struggle with this because I struggle with this is I want to be like I want to be doing the half hour of meditation and the hour of exercise and the half hour of journaling. And then by the time my morning stress management is done, it’s dinnertime. Right, right, right. We can’t have the stress management techniques that take us all day because then we don’t even have time to get stressed.  Sarah Knight: So I think it’s really helpful when you’re working one on one with someone who can just catch that thought pattern for you and say, hey, you’re going for perfection. Just do something that’s manageable because that’s going to make a huge difference. And when you can carry that habit long term, that consistency is always better than perfection. And this is something I think I post that on Instagram like every other week, just a reminder like we need. We need that reminder because we go through these things where I don’t know, maybe. OK, maybe it’s just me or you do great for a while. I’m like, great. I ‘m doing my morning meditation. It’s going great. I’m on like I’m on like this roll and then something will come up. I miss one day. Forget it. I’m off the rails. And then I’m like, oh, man, it’s been a week since I did that. I feel it. And I’m just I know I need to get back to it. So it’s just that creating the habit and then, you know, kind of doing what’s manageable to get back into it. Now, when when you talk to your clients about like stress management, self-care and things like that, do you get any pushback because we’ve got a lot of women who are driven, maybe they’re like kind of in denial a little bit that they need to do these things because it seems like too much of a luxury that they don’t have time for.  Sarah Knight: Mm hmm. Yes. I definitely have had clients who it takes a few weeks of me nudging them for them to finally say, OK, fine, I’ll do the minute of breathing. Dang it. And then I think that’s what’s powerful about working with someone.  Right. Is you know that you will benefit from implementing these exercises, but it is hard to make that time.So when you have someone checking in saying, hey, you know, it’s time for you to show up for yourself, take care of yourself like you know, you deserve to be taken care of. And it doesn’t have to be as hard as you think it will. Like, just try it.I think that that is really powerful. And then, you know, after me lovingly nagging them, they’ll start doing it. And then by the end of the program, it’s like second nature for them. And it’s just it’s part of their routine. And it’s a thing that they identify as a person who does that. So they resisted a little bit, but then, you know, you wear them down. Yes. Just kidding. But you do help them like experience the value because it’s not just you telling them and they’re them saying, OK, sure if you say so. But they actually do see the benefits and they experience like the difference between, you know, an incident that sets them off at a 10 when they could be at like a five or six and it’s manageable, like they’re experiencing that like, OK, I see. I see what Sarah’s saying now. Yeah, I’m on the bus. All right. So let’s talk a little bit about your program specifically. I’m excited since, you know, clearly I need this. So let’s talk about kind of like the framework and what it looks like to work with you. Sarah Knight:  Yeah, so I mostly work one on one with clients, which is really awesome, because like I said, there’s no one size fits all approach.  So I’m able to fully customize a nutrition program, stress management plan, supplement protocol, all of those things for the individuals, you know, their health conditions at the time, what they might be predisposed for based on family health conditions, their goals. So it’s a very comprehensive plan. And it also can be customized for their lifestyle.  Sarah Knight: Like I’ve had clients who are like, I’m not going to cook anything that takes longer than five minutes. And that’s just who I am as a person. That’s me. I said that… that was me. Sarah Knight: Yes. And you’re not the only one who said that this is a common thing because, right, we’re busy. And so I think that is why I also love working with entrepreneurial and professional women, because I’ve been there. I’m an entrepreneur myself. I’ve worked a corporate career where, you know, you’re showing up at the office at six, 30 or seven and leaving at seven. And you’ve been there for 12 hours. So I get the demands. Yeah, so I work one on one. And we it’s just it’s amazing to see the results that clients get. Like I’ve had clients who when they came to me, they were waking up multiple times throughout the night. And by the end of the program, they’re sleeping through the night and, you know, feeling so much more rested. I’ve had clients who their rosacea resolved through, you know, just making simple changes to their nutrition. And of course, the energy and focus.  Sarah Knight: So is that did I answer your question?  You did. So so basically, it’s it’s not just, you know, here’s a meal plan. You follow it. Sarah Knight: We’re going to talk about all kinds of like your lifestyle, your schedule, your preferences, you know, what you want, how you want to feel by the end of this program. And we’re going to work towards that. We’re going to look at your individual goals. So it’s not a cookie cutter. You sign up. You get, you know, this pre-printed here’s what you’re going to follow. And, you know, good luck.  But and you’re also doing check ins and you’re also, you know, having this constant contact like as a resource, as a an encourager, support a coach’s habits are they’re ingrained. And it’s really hard to change is hard. That’s what I should say. Change is hard. And so having somebody to kind of help you, you know, move from from point A to point B and then get to the point where you can kind of maintain that.  So it’s not just a temporary like here, we’re going to do this for 12 weeks and then you can go back to living your life. Now, these are changes that we’re working on implementing, you know, lifestyle changes. And I hate to. It’s such a cliche term, like make it a lifestyle. Right. But it’s true. It needs to be something that you adapt as part of who you identify. Like like you said, they identify as somebody who does these things, somebody who is who does meditate, somebody who does yoga. Like that becomes part of who they are. OK, so one thing I think people kind of get tripped up. So you are a holistic nutritionist and you kind of went over this a little bit. But what would you say is the biggest difference between, you know, working with you in your program versus hiring a dietician or a personal trainer?  Sarah Knight: Dieticians and trainers, they all have their own unique approaches. But I think what’s really exciting about working with a nutritionist like myself is that you get the one on one support. So, for example, some dietitian programs and they’re not all like this.  They all have their unique things. But it could be, you know, you meet, you get your assignment and then you go home and implement. And then you come back like two weeks later, a month later and check in. Whereas I am constantly like, you know, I use Voxer with my clients and they have unlimited access. So there’s no downtime. There’s no like if you hit an obstacle or a hurdle, you’re not waiting for our next session to get answers, to get support or encouragement. You know, they’re boxing me and then we’re working through it in the moment so that they’re staying on track and they’re having that accountability.  And it’s also like we talked about a more holistic approach to health. So while it is a nutrition program, it’s so much more than that.  Sarah Knight: And I imagine, too, like you said, a dietitian is really like food-based. They’re not really looking at lifestyle and like stress management, things like that and a trainer. So I’m a certified personal trainer. So I know for me, when I worked with clients, I could talk to them about exercise, but I couldn’t talk to them about what they were eating or and that’s really what they wanted to talk to me about, because let’s be honest.  We all know that a lot of how we feel comes from what we’re eating and how we’re how we’re eating and how we’re treating our bodies and the stress management and just time management and taking care of ourselves. And so as a trainer, you know, I would say, you know what? You probably need more than I can give you. So you might want to look into and I would refer out. I would have a list of, you know, here’s who you know, if this is what your your real goal is, if you’re struggling with this and this. Exercise is great for a lot of things, but I cannot help you with this.  So I love that you take more of a holistic approach for looking at at the client as a whole. And it’s not just here’s here’s a food list or here’s exercises, but it’s it’s kind of the whole package. So we’re talking about your program and clients who go through it. And so as a program kind of comes to an end. When when you’re kind of recapping the experience with your clients, what are they saying that they got? Like, what was their biggest aha moment? What is the biggest transformation for them as they reach that that three month mark?  Sarah Knight: Hmm, there are so many. I actually just wrapped up with one three month client and she was saying that her biggest takeaway is that she has hope again, which just like made my heart so happy. Oh, my gosh. She felt like she had hope again, that living a healthy lifestyle is something that’s actually possible for her. She had lost hope prior to that, that, you know, that it was something she would be able to do. And I think that is, again, something that diet culture really screws us over with is diets are not sustainable. And so we internalize that and we make it mean something about ourselves and our ability to be healthy and take care of ourselves .And when you just realize like there’s a different way and I can feel good, I can have energy. I don’t have to be lethargic all of the time. And this is possible for me.Like, that’s so powerful. So I could have cried when she said that, you know, she had hope again that this is something that she can do. Just to kind of expand on the thing that you just said about diet culture and how we internalize our failure, you know, and I’m using that in air quotes, our failure to be healthy, right?  Because a lot of diet culture messaging is, you know, wait. If you if you are in a larger body, you’re unhealthy. If you cannot maintain a smaller body, you’re not trying hard enough. You don’t want it enough. There’s something wrong with you. That you can’t eat healthier, but breaking free of that, that mindset and just understanding that healthy looks different for everyone. And what looks healthy for you is not going to look healthy for me.It’s just going to be different. And that’s fine. Like you said, she had hope again that she could be healthy in the way that is meaningful for her.And that’s that’s amazing.  OK, Sarah, we’re going to start to wrap up, but Sarah, what I like to do at the end of every episode is ask my guests to provide their top three tips for whatever their area of expertise is. So what would be your top three tips for our listeners who are looking to start adding some self care into their daily life?  Sarah Knight: The first one would be to start implementing some kind of stress management plan and don’t make it too hard. Like I said, if your starting point is one minute of deep breathing after you brush your teeth before you leave the bathroom in the morning, then start there. So that would be tip number one is finding something that works for you and start doing it. Tip number two would be when you’re eating to focus on how you want to feel because that really gets us tuned back into our bodies and how food makes us feel and starts to reignite that connection. So think about how you want to feel and then use that to inform your decision of what you’re going to eat. And tip number three would be eat more leafy greens. Everyone needs more leafy greens. Sarah, this was wonderful. Thank you so much. And I’m going to go ahead and put all your details in the show notes.But you can find more details on Sarah and her program at her website, which is each like a CEO dot com. And I’ll also be putting a link in the show notes for your your freebie, which is the cheat sheet on how to make a smoothie. So how to actually not just any old smoothie or like a power smoothing that’s going to fill you up and make you feel like you can run.You can run the world. Exactly. Well, thank you, Sarah. This has been amazing.  Sarah Knight: Thank you so much for having me. Frequently Asked Questions Here is the updated FAQ with no dividers and no em dashes, keeping it clean, readable, and SEO friendly. FAQ: Eat Like a CEO with Sarah Knight Who is Sarah Knight? Sarah Knight is a holistic nutritionist and the founder of Eat Like a CEO. She helps entrepreneurial and professional women break out of the tired wired cycle and build natural, sustainable energy without relying on caffeine or sugar. RELATED: From Foggy to FOCUSED with Sleep Coach Christine Meyer What does “Eat Like a CEO” mean? It means eating in a way that supports focus, stamina, mental clarity, and productivity. Sarah teaches women to simplify nutrition, reduce decision fatigue, and create systems that make healthy eating easy and realistic. Why is nutrition important for entrepreneurs and high achieving women? Entrepreneurs and ambitious women carry heavy mental loads, long hours, and constant decision making. Poor nutrition and chronic stress drain focus, energy, and productivity. Sarah focuses on helping women create consistent energy so they can pursue big professional and personal goals. How is Sarah’s approach different from traditional dieting? Sarah does not use restrictive diets. Her approach is personalized, flexible, and designed to help women feel good. There is no calorie counting or perfectionism. Instead, she helps clients reconnect to what their bodies need to feel energized and nourished. Does Sarah help with more than just food? Yes. Her coaching includes stress management tools, lifestyle support, sleep strategies, supplement recommendations, and practical routines. She looks at the whole person and not only the food they eat. What makes Sarah’s one to one program unique? Her programs are fully customized and she offers ongoing support between sessions. Clients can reach her through Voxer for real time help whenever obstacles come up. This support helps clients stay consistent and build long lasting habits. Who is the Eat Like a CEO program for? The program is ideal for entrepreneurs, small business owners, corporate professionals, and women with demanding schedules who want more energy, better focus, and easier meal routines. What results do clients usually experience? Clients often report better sleep, more stable energy, fewer cravings, easier decision making around food, improved skin, and better digestion. Many say they feel hopeful again about being able to live a healthy lifestyle. How does Sarah incorporate self care into nutrition? She reframes meal planning and simple habits as acts of self care for your future self. Her goal is to make healthy routines easier, not harder. Even small steps like buying pre chopped vegetables or doing one minute of deep breathing can create big improvements over time. What are Sarah’s top three self care tips? Start a simple and sustainable stress management habit such as one minute of deep breathing. Choose meals based on how you want to feel. Eat more leafy greens. Where can I learn more? Visit EatLikeACEO.com for details on Sarah’s work and to download her free smoothie building cheat sheet

Sleep coach Christine Meyer is back for the 2nd part of my 30-day sleep challenge results.Raise your hand if you’ve ever been personally victimized by your own bad sleep habits. This episode is all about my triumphs, from enjoying my evening ritual of Sleepytime teas to sleep-inducing hypnosis audiobooks played through headband headphones. Table of ContentsKey Takeaways:Quotes:Resources MentionedAbout Sleep Coach Christine Meyer: Connect with Christine:Click here to check out more episodes of the Podcast! Episode Transcript: Key Takeaways: Prioritize Quality Sleep: Recognize that quality sleep is essential for overall well-being, impacting mood, energy levels, and productivity. Make it a priority to improve the quality of your sleep. Start Small: Implement small changes in your sleep routine, such as creating a relaxing sleep environment and establishing a consistent bedtime routine. These small adjustments can lead to significant improvements over time. Adapt and Overcome Challenges: Be prepared to adapt to challenges that arise during your sleep journey. Whether it’s managing distractions or adjusting your routine, stay flexible and find creative solutions to overcome obstacles. Notice Positive Changes: Pay attention to the positive changes you experience as a result of improved sleep habits. Increased energy, better mood, and enhanced productivity are all signs of progress on your sleep journey. Take a Holistic Approach: Approach sleep improvement holistically by considering various factors that affect sleep, including sleep hygiene, stress levels, lifestyle habits, and physical health. Addressing these factors collectively can lead to more effective and sustainable improvements in your sleep quality. Quotes: “I had no energy, and [the lack of sleep] affected my mood, it affected my activities, it affected my work. It impacted everything.” “It was little things. It was a lot of little tweaks, but they’ve made a big difference.” “Sleep doesn’t just happen by itself. It’s not in a vacuum. So many things can impact your sleep and then your sleep can impact so many other things.” “When you focus on it, when you’re intentional about improving the quality and the quantity of your sleep, it’s going to help you in other areas.” Resources Mentioned These are some of the items that we discussed using during my sleep habit makeover challenge (links to Amazon): Daytime Sleep Helpers Sodastream – In an effort to cut down on my afternoon caffeine consumption, I traded in my daily Dr. Pepper Zero for seltzer (or ‘spritzies’ as we call them in our house). Sometimes I drink it plain, but most of the time I add a little bit of flavor to jazz it up. Water enhancer – I add this to my seltzer water to up the fun drink factor. I like Stur brand because it’s naturally sweetened, but there are no rules here. Evening Wind Down Reading light – This little gadget has been invaluable for my night time routine. It’s helped get back into reading more often, and it doubles as my bookmark! Kindle – Some people are diehard physical book fans so if you’re one of them, skip to the next item. For everyone else, if you’re someone who falls asleep reading and drops their physical book on their face, this hurts less. Headband headphones – As I mentioned in the episode, I have freakishly small ears and so I have a hard time with most headphones and earbuds. These bluetooth headphones are perfect as they lay over the ears. I’ve also started using them for listening to audiobooks when I walk the dog and when I go running. They’re great because I can hear my books/music but I’m also able to hear traffic because it doesn’t block out outside noise. Essential Oil Diffuser – Studies have shown that certain scents can contribute to better sleep quality. I used eucalyptus and lavender essential oils in my diffuser, but different scents work for different people, so if those don’t do it for you, try something else! Blue light glasses – If you use devices close to bedtime, the bluelight they emit can interfere with your sleep. Using these glasses can help minimize that effect Downdog yoga app – Studies have shown that practicing yoga can improve sleep quality, including sleep duration and reducing the number of nighttime wakings. If you choose to include yoga in your wind-down routine, look for slow and relaxing practices such as restorative yoga or a yoga nidra (yogic sleep). Yoga mat – Not required but makes lying on the floor a little more comfortable. Bolster – A fancy word for a yoga pillow. You can use one to support different parts of your body during your practice. Sleepytime Tea – This is a staple in my night time routine. I put it in a BIG mug and add a touch of honey. I was surprised to learn there were so many varieties of Sleepytime! Bedtime Journal – During our call I mentioned I had a hard time turning off my brain at night so one of the wind-down options was a brain dump into a journal so my mind could relax knowing all the things it didn’t want me to forget were safely documented somewhere, and all those mental sticky notes could go right in the mental trash basket. In bed/Sleeping White noise machine – I had this left over from when my son was a baby and we recently brought it out of retirement to help mask the cat noises that were waking up the dog during the night. There are also white noise apps that can be used as well. Weighted Face mask – I’ve had this for years, I think my husband bought it for me when I was having a lot of migraines because it doubles as a mini-heating pad. I find the pressure on my eyes while I’m falling a sleep very relaxing! Weighted blanket – Another present from my husband (I think from a Christmas or two ago?) that I hadn’t really been using but pulled it out for the challenge and have used it nightly since! Note, these types of blankets can trap in heat, so while it was great during the winter, I’ll be switching to a Cooling Weighted blanket for the warmer months ‘The Rabbit Who Wanted to Fall Asleep’ hypnosis audiobook – For years I had no idea how this book ended because it was so effective at putting me to sleep. I now know how it ends (I won’t spoil it for you!) but this is really helpful to have cued up for those nights when I wake up and have a hard time falling back asleep. Apple Watch – I use this to track my sleep, which is how I found out how much worse it was than I thought! It records your data in the Health app on your phone and it tracks how much time you’re in bed vs actually sleeping, how many times you wake up during the night, how much time you spend in the different sleep cycles, plus your sleeping heart rate and respiratory rate. Rise sleep tracking app – This is the app I used to track my sleep debt. Even though I could feel it when my sleep debt was high and I knew I needed to prioritize getting caught up, seeing the actual number of hours of sleep my body was missing in the app made it more real and got my attention. What I also like about this app is that it can predict (with great accuracy!) when my energy will peak (and plummet!) throughout the day, based on my previous night’s sleep. What I used to think was just a post-lunch carb coma turned out to be a natural low point in my daily energy level. This made me feel less like it was “my fault” for being useless and brain fogged most afternoons between 2 and 3 pm. I hope these items help you create a wind-down routine that works for you! And if you’re not sure which things would help you the most, connect with Christine for a Sleep Strategy Session so she can put together your own personalized Restful Roadmap! About Sleep Coach Christine Meyer:  Christine Meyer is an Ace Certified Health Coach, Certified Health Education Specialist, and a Licensed Physical Therapist Assistant. She has over 14 years of experience in the health and wellness field and helps mid-life women go from foggy to focused, by helping them restore their restful sleep. Her coaching focuses on lifestyle changes, which includes stress management and time management skills. She is a wife, mom, and new Grandma and resides in Southern California. Connect with Christine: On Facebook: Facebook.com/Christinesleepcoach On Instagram: @Christinesleepcoach Book a consultation: CLICK HERE  Download Christine’s Free gift: The Sleep Tips Ebook Click here to check out more episodes of the Podcast! Episode Transcript: Laurie: Welcome everyone. I’m here with Christine Meyer, who is a sleep health coach, to recap the results of my 30-day sleep challenge. Welcome back, Christine. How are you? I’m doing well, thank you, I am drinking coffee, but this is it for the day and I’m done, I promise. And I never I wouldn’t say never, very, very rarely even especially since, like the last month do I drink coffee in the afternoon, but I just there was some left over and I hate to. I hate to dump it out Like I can’t. I just can’t. So it pains me to throw out coffee. I just love it. So part one is my backstory of how you were on the podcast. I realized I sucked at getting good sleep. I did some of your things. It improved a little bit, and then I got an Apple watch and I realized I really sucked. And then I was like, oh okay, I got to do something about this. And then we connected and then we did our session and then you gave me a plan. That’s part one, and so now this is part two where we’re doing the wrap up. So the recap of the strategy session and the action plan, and then summing up with the challenge week by week. So I don’t want to go day by day because that’s going to be a three day episode, no one will listen to it. Week by week what went well, what didn’t, and then the changes that I noticed each week, and then the biggest changes I noticed from the beginning to the end I do. I do feel like a bajillion times better than I did when we had our session. I think it was like two months ago now, night and day. 0:01:57 – ChristineReally. 0:01:57 – LaurieWhen we had that session, you asked me what my struggles were, what my challenges were, what I wanted to get out of the challenge. How did I want to feel at the end of it? Like what was the goal, what was I trying to do? And I had told you and I just watched it, I just rewatched it to recap and I was, like I remember, feeling like just drained, like I had no energy, and talking about how it affected my mood, it affected my activities, it affected my work. It was just everything. It was like a like a bicycle wheel, like the spokes, like it just touched everything. And now it’s completely different. But I wanted to be. I wanted to be popular in my house again. I wanted to be somebody people wanted to talk to, people wanted to spend time with. I wanted to want to go and do things and just not be too tired to do it. And so putting this plan that you gave me into place really helped me kind of get on track with habits and boundaries. And it was little things. It was a lot of little tweaks, but they’ve made a big difference. So after the session, you gave me a plan and I said, okay, I’m going to put this into action. And what happened was I had said I wanted, I wanted a few things. I wanted to read at night, I wanted some aromatherapy, and there was something else that I wanted. But when I went to start the challenge I was like, oh, I don’t have any of the things I need to do that, so let me go buy them. So I went on Amazon or I went shopping and I bought a little essential oil diffuser for my oils and there’s a funny story there that I don’t really have time for but basically I turned it on, used the oil and my husband was like, oh my God, it smells like a nursing home in here, Like what is happening. He immediately nixed whatever I was cooking up in there and he’s like no, no, no, whatever this is, ditch it. Like I’m not living this way. So I was like, no, I get it. And then the other thing was I wanted to read in bed and you had said if you have a table lamp, that’s fine, not an overhead. And I have a table lamp. I had one on my nightstand but it was too small, like I had to read, like all hunched over and leaning over, and it was not conducive to good sleep. So I got one of these little USB rechargeable book lights with a little clip on it so I can clip it on my book and then read. And it’s a tiny little thing and I can just keep it in my book. It’s a doubles as a bookmark. So and I’ve read like two whole books in the two months, which is like sadly a record but it’s. But it’s that time and I get to read and relax and it’s just mine and I read my silly books and it’s, it’s fantastic. But I had to go and buy my stuff that I needed. I already had a sound machine and I already had a weighted blanket and I already had a weighted face mask which I was kind of using intermittently. But those were the things that I wanted to help me in my plan. So once I had gone shopping and picked up everything, then I was ready to start. The goals were sleep goal number one create a relaxing bedroom environment. Sleep goal number two establish a nighttime routine. A little bit of a delay there, but it’s okay, it worked out because week one of the challenge coincided with the time change. So my plan was to start my wind down routine at 9.15 and then lights out at 10. And in my brain and in my body it already it thought it was already later. So I was kind of getting sleepy anyway around that time. So I said, oh, this makes it really easy to like excuse myself and say I’m really tired, I want to go to bed, you know, and go up to my room and start my wind down. So that worked out great. What was kind of a funny offset was that my dog doesn’t understand time change and so she was still waking up at what she thought was six o’clock but really five o’clock. But if I hadn’t been going to bed earlier I would have been going to bed at 10 o’clock and getting up at five. It did work out for the best that I was going to bed earlier because I was still getting up early with the dog, but that first week I was tired enough to just kind of to go with it lights out at 9.15. The other part of the changes that I was implementing was switching to decaf drinks after 2 pm, and we had talked about how I was drinking coffee and I would have a soda in the afternoon. I’ve cut out the soda. I do miss it, but I have seltzer, I have herbal tea and I have some other like fun drinks to have that are caffeine free, and so that hasn’t really been that much of a disruption. The other thing was getting more activity. I haven’t really done more activity, but I have the same level of activity of walking my dog twice a day. So that was one thing. The third thing was turning off screens in the evening, because I was a notorious shut. Off the computer, go right to the phone, have the phone on basically all night until lights out, like I would be scrolling in my bed and then staying up too late watching reels and then going to bed. So putting the phone away, putting the laptop away, no devices after a certain time. That was one of my things and I liked that because it actually had a side effect of reducing my stress in that if I’m not on my phone, I’m not on my computer, I’m not doing work. So it helped me to kind of set that boundary around not doing work after hours, which you know as a as somebody who’s self-employed, somebody who owns their own business. It’s really easy to. I’m just going to check this email. Oh, I’m just going to do this. I’m just going to do this. Two hours later you’re still on the device. You’re still doing work and you should have gone to bed an hour ago, so I really liked that. It helped me to be like nope, I’m off the clock, no devices can. Can’t help it. 0:07:44 – ChristineYeah, you’ve got that buffer zone there. You know you’ve got some work boundaries and now you can prepare to transition for Tibet easier. 0:07:52 – LaurieI definitely felt less stress, because that was one of the other things we talked about was kind of a brain dump, like I was having trouble turning off my brain and I had said I wanted to do like journaling before bed. But what happened that first week was when I, when it got to be 915, that first night that I was supposed to start this, I went into my room and I looked at my list because I’m very black or white, like when somebody gives me a checklist, it’s like you do all the things, that’s doing it right. If you don’t do all the things, you’re doing it wrong. So I looked at this list and while, as somebody with ADHD, I love lists because it helps me stay on track, I also get overwhelmed with lists because if I see everything at once, I go oh, too much. And that’s what happened that first night. It said yoga journal, read lights out. And I was like, oh my God, like this feels like too many things. I can’t, I’m going to do one thing. And then that’s when I messaged you and you said pick one or two and then add one later and I was like okay, I’m going to start with the reading, because I know that’s easy for me to do, like I can just lay down, open my book. I know it’s going to make my eyes tired, I know it’s going to help me fall asleep. We’ll start with that and, to be honest, that’s working. I would like to do journaling or yoga, maybe like some restorative yoga or yoga nidra, at some point. 0:09:18 – ChristineBut right now this whole situation is good. It’s important to keep in mind, because we can have all these ideas and you’re going to like one thing and maybe not another. Or I go through stages where I’m reading for bed, but then after a while it’s like I’m going to start doing yoga before bed, and so you can just kind of switch it up. The main thing is that you’re doing something for yourself, you’re keeping that routine. It doesn’t have to be like this rigid checklist all of the time. So it’s good to have that, that you know that menu of options that we talk about in coaching. 0:09:43 – LaurieExactly, and so that’s why I keep the plan out and I said, okay, when I’m kind of like over reading at night, I’ll add in the journal or I’ll print out some prompts and maybe I’ll just write a sentence or maybe I’ll just kind of like dabble in between the three. It doesn’t have to be a do this, do this, do this. You’re not trying to give me another job here. Yeah, you do what feels good, exactly. So I got ready for bed you know pajamas, brush my teeth, do all that stuff lay down my weighted blanket and turn on my little book light, read my book, went to sleep. So that first week, that works great. The second week, I’ll tell you, I wasn’t as tired. At nine o’clock when it when it that time to start to wind down rolled around, I was like, oh, I don’t really feel tired. But I was like, oh, I’m not falling for this again, because I know that just because I don’t feel tired doesn’t mean I’m not tired, right, this is the line I give my son all the time. He’s like I don’t want to go to bed, I’m not tired. I’m like well, you might not feel it, but you are. But I have to tell this to myself Because I was like I don’t really feel that tired. And then, lo and behold, I would start the routine. I would read the book and I was like, oh yeah, I’m falling asleep, I’m tired. How about that Sneaky? It snuck right up on me. And then by the third week, I’m going to tell you I was like pumped. Like after dinner I would have my tea, I had my sleepy time tea and I stocked up on all the different kinds of sleepy time tea. I didn’t know they had different types of sleepy time tea. They have variations. And I was like give me all the sleepy time. I love me some sleepy time, like everybody, just get in the basket, let’s just go. So I’d have my tea in the evening and then my son would go to bed and at 9.15, I’m like hell yeah, I’m out of here, I’m going to go do my thing, I’m going to wind down and I’m going to be in bed by 10. And it just felt so good, like I didn’t feel like I was being punished, I didn’t feel like I was missing out on anything. My husband was a little sad. On the other hand, I think he was kind of like I could use some quiet time. I could use some time to myself. So I’m not totally broken up about it, it wasn’t. It was like he was like, eh, he was kind of like eh, eh. And I did have a few nights I wouldn’t say it was like a hundred I went to bed at, you know, on the time that I wanted to. There were a few nights that I did end up staying up later than I intended. Um, like, I maybe went downstairs to get my water or I forgot my headphones and I would come downstairs and my husband would be watching something fun and I would sit down and then the next thing I knew it was 11 30 and I was like this was not supposed to happen, but whatever, back. And then the next thing I knew it was 1130. And I was like this was not supposed to happen, but whatever, back on the horse the next night, not going to let it derail me. One of the issues that I was having was waking up in the middle of the night, like three or four, and not getting back to sleep. And you had said, if that happens and you’re awake for more than 15 minutes, go somewhere else, like, get out of bed, go in another room, go sit like in a chair and I was like, okay, I can do that. One of the things that I thought I would be a good idea was to get these Bluetooth headband headphones and then connect it to an audio book. That’s hypnosis on my iPhone, but my phone was in the other room but I could use my watch to turn it off and on. I thought I was pretty slick with this and that worked great. And my son loved my headband headphones so much he wanted a pair, so I had to get him a pair too. So now we’re all headband headphone nerds over here and they’re awesome and they’re actually good for like walking and like and running and stuff because they’re comfortable. I have freakishly small ears. So those earbuds never fit. Everything hurts. These things are great. So I’m a huge, I’m a huge fan of these. And that worked out really well because I would wake up. Am I falling back asleep? Sometimes I would, and if I wasn’t put on the headband, start the story lights out and I’m telling you this book. It’s called the Rabbit who Wants to Fall Asleep. I listened to this at bedtime with my son for like two years, before I even knew what the story was about. This book would knock me out. I was like what is this even about? This rabbit wants to fall asleep. But then what happens? I don’t even know, I have no idea. I couldn’t even tell you. And then by the fourth week, my husband was like you know what? I think I want to go to bed early too. I don’t know if he was lonely or he just saw like how much better I looked or felt or seemed. He was like you know what? Maybe I’ll do that too. So he’s starting to go to bed, not with me, but just earlier than he had. So but I will say like I noticed a huge difference between starting the challenge in the end, in my energy. I’m waking up without an alarm and I’m waking up awake, mm-hmm, I’m not dragging myself out of bed, I’m not hitting snooze, I’m not, you know, depending on coffee to wake me up, none of that. And it feels so good. So this has been a great experience and I’m so thankful and glad that you helped me get to this place. This has been amazing. 0:14:54 – ChristineI’m glad it’s helped you and, like you said, it’s not just your morning, but your whole day is different. Your personality is different, you’re more pleasant to be around. So sometimes we don’t want to admit that, but it is hard. So that’s great to hear, it’s great to hear. And, like you said, it was just like these small little tweaks. You kind of experimented with what did and didn’t work and you’ve you’ve got the routine with other options, in case you decide I don’t want to do this anymore, totally fine. 0:15:22 – LaurieExactly, and my goal was, you know, to do this for a month. I want to get caught up on my sleep. I want to develop some, some good habits around, you know, during the day, like things that I’m eating or drinking or doing that impact my sleep. Things I’m doing right before bed that impact my sleep, and then things that I’m eating or drinking or doing that impact my sleep, things I’m doing right before bed that impact my sleep, and then things that I’m doing after I’ve already fallen, it’s like in the middle of the night, that can kind of be impacting my overall sleep quality. And I’ve achieved that, like I’ve done all these things and I said, okay, I’m going to do this for 30 days, and if I get to the 30 days and I don’t want to go to bed at nine o’clock anymore and I don’t want to do all these things, I don’t have to right, it was an experiment, it was a challenge to see, like how this could impact how I felt my overall everything. And I’m going to tell you like I’m going to keep doing this because it’s awesome when my son goes to bed, I’m excited for my wind down. That’s like my time to take it easy and just, I love having the boundary around that time and it’s just for me to unwind and ease into sleep. 0:16:25 – ChristineYeah, and how do you feel this has affected you business wise, as far as, like, your creativity, your focus, your productivity? Do you know changes there? 0:16:35 – LaurieIt’s much better. I’m a little less distracted. So I do have ADHD, so I’m not going to say everything’s great, but I will say like being exhausted, like my whole issue before was that I would be sitting here with a list of things to do and just already tired when I sat down. And so looking at this list, it was like I already have trouble focusing on what I’m doing, but now I don’t have the energy to focus on what I’m doing. So while it helps my focus a little bit but that also you know that’s myths but having the energy to point my flashlight in one direction for an extended amount of time in one direction for an extended amount of time huge difference. 0:17:19 – ChristineRight, yeah, that’s great to hear. 0:17:28 – LaurieSo definitely impacting, like my productivity and my energy, when I sit down at my desk. And also, I had a podcast interview this morning. This is my second one today. Now a couple of months ago could I have done that? No, I would have been on the couch. I would have needed a nap after that. So this is definitely an improvement. Awesome, I need some kind of I need some outside eyeballs on what I’m doing to help me figure out. You know how I can kind of make some adjustments, make some tweaks that work for my lifestyle, work for my preferences. 0:18:13 – ChristineAnd just help me to get to a place where I am getting not only enough sleep but good quality sleep. So that’s what we do in my 60 Minutes to Better Sleep session is first thing I have you do is fill out that questionnaire that you filled out. It talks about your sleep hygiene, your stress levels, your lifestyle habits, your physical health because medical conditions and medications can have an effect as well and then we meet together and I talk about you know what’s standing out for me as far as you know, not only what your you know sleep sabotagers might be, but what you’re doing well that you want to continue with. And that’s where we come up with that 30-day plan. Typically, we’re going to pick no more than four things to focus on over the next month. You can implement them all at one time but, like you said, it can be kind of overwhelming. So I recommend, maybe every week you do one, maybe two things that you want to add in there. Like you said, prepare for it, get everything that you need and just start to notice maybe keep that journal each day of how many hours you slept, how you feel, and it’s a subtle change. Like you said, it’s not like all of a sudden you wake up one day and wow, everything’s great. It’s just kind of like gradual. Over time, like you said, you noticed week by week things were a little bit different, and now that you’re at the end of it you just notice this huge change. And so that’s what we do, is work together. You know, I’m not telling somebody what to do. We’re deciding together. I’m saying here’s what stands out for me. What do you want to work on? What do you think is going to work best? We come up with that plan. I send a great little roadmap summary to you and then we can do like periodic check-ins to see how things are going and then, beyond that, if more coaching is needed on a regular basis for that, then we can definitely continue on with monthly coaching. 0:19:51 – LaurieAwesome. So you mentioned keeping a sleep journal, so talk to me about that, because that’s something that you’re going to have available for any of the listeners who want to start tracking their sleep or understanding, maybe, what their obstacles are or what’s standing in their way. 0:20:07 – ChristineYeah, you can find like sleep diaries online. They’re huge checklists of everything you’ve done throughout the day, which can be kind of overwhelming to look at the next day and connect all the dots. But with this journal, it just has a different prompt each day, just asking you a question, and it could be a question about your sleep, your stress levels, what you ate that day, just kind of you know things that you want to maybe take a look at and how did it affect your sleep. And it gives you more insight to maybe where, again, those sabotagers are. Maybe you don’t know how it’s affecting you and it gives you more insight to maybe where, again, those sabotagers are. Maybe you don’t know how it’s affecting you and it allows you to figure out more on your own those areas that you might need to dive into a little bit more. Is it sleep hygiene? Do I need to work on my stress levels? That’s a huge one for people. Are there some medical conditions or medications that I’m taking that might be affecting it? So it’s good to look at so many different areas. That’s why I do like more holistic coaching, because improving your sleep isn’t just a one-shot deal. It’s not black and white. I can send you a checklist and that’s. It’s great for general ideas. It’s like a kind of like a little baseline blueprint, but everyone’s going to be different. 0:21:19 – LaurieIt’s like a kind of like a little baseline blueprint, but everyone’s going to be different. You just said something that that’s important is that you know sleep doesn’t just happen by itself. It’s not in a vacuum. So many things can impact your sleep and then your sleep can impact so many other things. Everything is connected, but sleep is one of these foundational like. If you’re not getting sleep, that trickle down is going to be substantial. It’s going to be more of an impact than you know maybe some other self-care practices that you’re ignoring. But sleep is foundational and I’m telling you, when you focus on it, when you’re intentional about improving the quality and the quantity of your sleep, it’s going to help you in other areas. So now that I’m getting more sleep and I have more energy, now I have the energy to work out more and I have the energy to do things and I’m not stressed out at work, so I can take time off to like do fun things that I want to do, that that fill up my cup, like connecting with friends or going going to Costco by myself, with friends, or going to Costco by myself. No one tells you that. You know, when you become an adult, that one of the greatest luxuries is going to Costco alone. I don’t care what anyone says, I think like to me. That’s like I’m like Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music, just like spinning around. I’m like, ah, exactly, exactly. But it’s nice to just be able to have the energy to know like I’m not so stressed that I can’t take time out for myself during the day. The other thing that I was going to say is that if we have listeners who are not ready to book a call with you, I’m going to be setting up a challenge where they can do their own 30 day track, your sleep challenge and see, you know, maybe, maybe, make some adjustments and tweaks, look at some of the things that I am doing and see if that helps you. And then you know, all of Christine’s information will be inside the challenge so you can connect with her that way. Christine, I’m going to be putting the link to the 30 day sleep journal and all of your social media links in your website inside the show notes, so I’ll have all of your links in the show notes for anybody who wants to connect with you. They can do that and see all of the good things that you have available. 0:23:30 – ChristineAwesome, I really appreciate it. I’m so happy to hear about your progress there. I know we’ve been kind of checking in here and there, but it’s so great to just hear at the end about your journey and how it’s helped you. 0:23:40 – LaurieThank you, Christine. 0:23:42 – ChristineYou are welcome. 0:23:44 – LaurieThanks for listening and if you liked this episode, go ahead and leave us a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to subscribe so you’ll be notified when the next episode is live. When the next episode is live, check out our show notes for this episode, where you can find any of the links and resources that were mentioned during the show and connect with a health and wellness provider committed to helping you ditch diets and achieve results without restriction. Thanks for listening and we’ll catch you in the next episode. ​

Table of Contents5 Key Takeaways of my Sleep Challenge ExperienceNotable Episode QuotesResources MentionedAbout Christine MeyerConnect with ChristineSleep Challenge Part 1 – Episode TranscriptCheck out Part 2 of my 30-Day Sleep Challenge Results 5 Key Takeaways of my Sleep Challenge Experience Consistency is key when it comes to establishing a healthy sleep routine. Going to bed and waking up at the same time every day can help regulate the body’s internal clock and improve sleep quality. Creating a relaxing sleep environment is crucial for promoting restful sleep. This includes decluttering the bedroom, using aromatherapy, and minimizing noise disturbances. Managing stress throughout the day can significantly impact sleep quality. Incorporating relaxation techniques such as yoga, meditation, and deep breathing exercises can help reduce stress and promote better sleep. If you’re unable to fall back asleep after waking up in the middle of the night, get out of bed and engage in a relaxing activity until you’re feeling sleepy again. This can help prevent you from associating the bed with being awake and promote better sleep efficiency. Doing a brain dump before bed can help clear the mind and reduce racing thoughts that may interfere with falling asleep. Writing down tasks and concerns can provide a sense of relief and allow for a more restful sleep. Notable Episode Quotes If you’re not sleeping, you can’t do anything else. It just trickles down into everything. I need to be more consistent and more intentional about what I’m doing during the day and in the evening to get better sleep. Creating a relaxing sleep environment and establishing a consistent sleep routine are key factors in improving sleep quality. Resources Mentioned What is sleep hygiene? https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-hygiene Chronic sleep deprivation effectsSupports your discussion about exhaustion impacting daily life:https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/chronic_sleep_deprivation.html Importance of sleep for overall healthhttps://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/sleep-deprivation What is sleep coaching?https://www.sleepfoundation.org/sleep-hygiene/what-is-a-sleep-coach Sleep action plans / behavior change, Supports the “30-day challenge” framework:https://www.apa.org/topics/behavioral-health/healthy-sleep-habits Sleep and stress connectionhttps://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/sleep-and-mental-health Sleep and productivity / energyhttps://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/sleep/art-20048379 About Christine Meyer Christine Meyer is an Ace Certified Health Coach, Certified Health Education Specialist, and a Licensed Physical Therapist Assistant. She has over 14 years of experience in the health and wellness field and helps mid-life women go from foggy to focused, by helping them restore their restful sleep. Her coaching focuses on lifestyle changes, which includes stress management and time management skills. She is a wife, mom, and new Grandma and resides in Southern California. Connect with Christine On Facebook: Facebook.com/Christinesleepcoach On Instagram: @Christinesleepcoach Book a consultation: CLICK HERE  Download Christine’s Free gift: The Sleep Tips Ebook Sleep Challenge Part 1 – Episode Transcript I don’t think there are enough people who talk about the importance of sleep. You know, people will do like nutrition or workouts and stuff like that, but it’s like if you’re not sleeping, you can’t do anything else. I mean, it just trickles down into everything. Welcome, everyone. Today’s episode is a little bit different. It’s part one of a two part episode where I’m sharing my experience participating in a 30 day sleep challenge that I recently completed with the help of sleep sleep health coach Christine Meyer. Now, you may remember that Christine Meyer was previously a guest on the show. If you listen to that episode, you’ll hear me admit to Christine that my personal sleep habits are not that great. They finally caught up with me a few months ago. I found myself chronically exhausted, and it was having a negative impact on pretty much every area of my life. So I reconnected with Christine Meyer and she agreed to help me with my 30 day sleep challenge. The 30 day sleep challenge started with Christine and I meeting virtually for a better sleep strategy session so that she could understand my current sleep situation and struggles. Then she sent me a restful roadmap, which was a summary of our call and printable action plan for me to use during the 30 days of the sleep challenge. This episode is a recording of our sleep strategy session. In the next episode, I’ll be recapping my sleep challenge experience and reviewing my results with Christine, so be sure to check out that episode after you listen to this one. So now have a listen in on my virtual sleep strategy session with health coach Christine Meyer. [Beginning of the Consultation Recording]0:02:02 – (Christine Meyer): Welcome. Basically, what we’re going to do is talk about your sleep habits. You know, what’s going well, what are you struggling with? And at the end of the sleep strategy session, we will decide together four action steps that you can start implementing over the next 30 days to help you with your sleep, and then I’ll be sending you everything we discussed and the goals that you’re going to be working on. Tell me what’s motivated you to seek help with your sleep. 0:02:27 – (Laurie): I’m so tired, Christine. I’m tired all the time. I was at the point where I was just so tired all the time, and I was like, oh, my God, I’m dying. Like, something has to be seriously wrong with me because why do I feel like this all the time? And then I got an apple Watch, and I started wearing it to bed, and my watch was like, oh, by the way, you have a double digit sleep jet. And I was like, well, shoot, I had no idea my sleep was. Was that bad. Like, I know sometimes I stay up a little bit late or sometimes I get up too early and it’s like, we have pets and I have a kid and, like, things interrupt my sleep. So I was like, I didn’t realize it was that bad. So I was like, okay, I need to do something about this. And then we had our podcast, and I was like, I definitely want to do something about this. Did a few things, and I can see when I do these things, it gets better. When I don’t do these things, when I do my own thing, that debt climbs. And I’m like, what I need is a routine, a habit. I need a block of time that I dedicate to establishing really good, like, sleep hygiene or, like, a nighttime habit. Because I’m getting to the point that when that sleep debt is getting high, I’m just useless during the day. I’m just counting the hours until it’s socially acceptable for me to go to bed. 0:03:53 – (Christine Meyer): So when you’re doing the things you need to do, sleep is good. And you notice that when you don’t do the things you need to do, it’s not so good. What keeps you from that consistency of being in a routine?0:04:04 – (Laurie): When I make the choice to go to bed early and I don’t have my phone at night and I get caught up, my sleep jet gets under 5 hours, I feel great. And I’m like, oh, I can stay up and watch tv with my husband or watch a movie after my son goes to bed or something, and it’s like, I can’t keep doing it because then my sleep debt climbs up, then I’m exhausted, and then we do the whole thing over again. So, yeah.0:04:27 – (Christine Meyer): So you tracking your sleep debt kind of contributes to that pattern. It sounds like looking at the numbers and seeing what you’ve accumulated or if it’s going up or down, would that be right?0:04:38 – (Laurie): I’ve made the observation that when that sleep debt goes down, how I feel, I feel a certain way. And when I feel that way, like. If I didn’t, if I saw the number and it said like four and I still felt like shit, I wouldn’t stay up. Like, I would be like, “oh, I really want to go to bed.” But it’s like I’m just having the Awareness of how I feel And when I feel good and I Have a lot of energy, then I start thinking I can stay up and party like I’m 46 again.0:05:06 – (Christine Meyer): So it’s keeping those patterns in place even when you’re feeling good. But a preventive measure in a way, right.0:05:12 – (Laurie): I want it to kind of just be a routine where I’m not, you know, maybe staying up and watching a movie is a once a week thing or it’s like a Friday night thing, but it’s not like a bunch of nights in a row until I feel like I just am exhausted again.0:05:26 – (Christine Meyer): So there’s an inconsistent sleep schedule. Like you mentioned, you go to bed at eleven, but that sounds like that can vary quite a bit.0:05:32 – (Laurie): It can vary. When I’m really tired, I’ll go to bed. Before my son even goes to bed, I’ll just say, “peace out, I’m going to bed. I’ll see you guys later.” My husband’s like, “bye, go to bed.” If I’m really tired, I put myself to bed. But then I’m like, two days later, I can be up at 11:30 doing whatever, watching a movie, doing stuff on the Internet, like scrolling facebook.0:05:52 – (Christine Meyer): How does this affect your day to day life? All of the inconsistency and kind of the back and forth with that.0:05:59 – (Laurie): It affects how I interact with my family. I’m not popular here because it affects my mood and I’m just cranky, snippy. I don’t have the energy for things that I’d like to be doing, which is getting back into running and lifting. The idea of working out when I’m too tired is just, I just can’t because I just want to sit on my couch and just go to bed.0:06:21 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, so the sleep and the moodiness affects others in the, in the household there?0:06:26 – (Laurie): Yes.0:06:26 – (Christine Meyer): All right. And how long have you been experiencing this?0:06:30 – (Laurie): Probably like, since COVID hit as a parent, I already had like, a certain level of, like, low grade chronic stress. But then with COVID and then, like, things going on in the world, like, it just kind of got worse and I found myself waking up a lot at night. So even if I went to bed early, I was still waking up randomly and 2 hours later I can’t get back to sleep. So it probably started around three years ago where it got bad. But if I’m honest, my sleep hasn’t been great basically since I had my son nine years ago. I just kind of accepted that’s, that’s where we are, so.0:07:02 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, so I did review the questionnaire, obviously, so I’ve got a lot of that information from you. We’re going to, you know, dive in deeper into, into some of those areas, but definitely want to call out, you know, things that you’re doing that are helpful for sleep and. Sounds like you exercise on a pretty regular basis, would you say?0:07:20 – (Laurie): Yeah, I walk the dog twice a day for half an hour whether I want to, and I’m like a zombie or not. That’s like the bare minimum. Sometimes I do other stuff, but it depends on my energy level.0:07:30 – (Christine Meyer): Okay. But it sounds like you want to do more. And like you said with the like weight training, 0:07:35 – (Laurie): I want to get back into running now that it’s cooling off, but I’m just like.0:07:38 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, alcohol sounds very infrequent. You said maybe once a week, if that I can be a sleep sabotager. Uh, for sure. Especially in the evening time. Sounds like you’re limiting caffeine to early afternoon. Or would you say on the days you’re tired you are drinking it later in the day?0:07:55 – (Laurie) I try not to really just try to pay more attention. I used to have two cups of coffee early. Between like seven and ten would be like I’d have my coffee done and then I would have a soda between like around lunchtime. And then I would try to just do water or other drinks, non caffeinated or tea or something in the afternoon. But on the days that I was really tired, I would make the mistake of like, I’m like, hey, I really need to like pep up here a little bit, have a later cup of coffee again. That keeps me up later, and then we kind of start the cycle all over, so.0:08:30 – (Christine): Right, gotcha.0:08:31 -(Laurie): But for the most part, I try to keep it well before, like the after, like mid-afternoon, so.0:08:38 – (Christine): Okay. It doesn’t sound like you’re eating late at night. You said your last meal is about 6630 and it sounds like you’ve got some outlets for first stress management. Aside from the exercise you’d like to read, I think you said you connect with your friends. You did rate your stress at about a seven out of a ten. You said you manage it fair? Tell me more about that.0:09:02 – (Laurie): I’m just always in a probably that, like, low grade level of I’m always thinking about stuff. It’s hard to shut my brain off. So I think that is kind of like what I’m referring to. Like that I’m always trying to remember stuff. Did I forget this? I also have ADHD, so that’s like my default. Always trying to keep track of the sticky notes in my mind. Constantly running through that loop of what did I forget? What do I need to remember?0:09:27 – (Christine Meyer): When you say manage it fair, I.0:09:30 – (Laurie): Feel like I could do a better job of actively trying to relax, like doing a little bit more to turn it off. I don’t really try to turn it off. I just wait till it. It wears down.0:09:43 – (Christine Meyer): Right.0:09:44 – (Laurie): And I just kind of don’t know. But if I was like, you know what? I’m going to shut the door on this. I’m going to focus on this. That’s not work related. It’s not news, it’s not. It’s not stressful. It’s like fun. It’s like some kind of activity or game or whatever. That’s just for the purpose of relaxing, reading my book or something like that. So getting better at that intentional flipping of the switch of my brain is now in this mode.0:10:11 – (Christine): Right. There’s that difference between, you know, doing things to manage stress, but like you said, also just unplugging and doing things that are not stimulating the brain as much and slowing down there. So. Okay, so it sounds like you wake up in the middle of the night at least one or two times a week.0:10:31 – (Laurie): Yeah, probably. Well, so I’m not great about drinking water. It’s one of my things I want to be better about, but I’m not great about remembering to do it during the day. So I’ll like, get to be like, 04:00, 05:00 and I’m like, oh, I need to drink my water. And then I’ll start drinking water. And I try to stop before 08:00 but I feel like I’ll wake up at least once to pee during the night.0:10:54 – (Christine): And so how often does that happen?0:10:56 – (Laurie): Probably almost every night. I also have pets. I have a dog who sleeps on my bed. That probably wakes me up because she hears the cats. They can’t be together as a dog will eat the cat. So she hears the cat, she wakes up, she Wakes me up. So sometimes that’s what wakes me up, too.0:11:17 – (Christine): Gotcha. And your husband snores as well, is that right?0:11:19 – (Laurie): He does. 0:11:22 – (Christine): All right. So we’ve got some noise there. How long does it take you to get back to sleep when you’re awake In the middle of the night?0:11:27 – (Laurie): Sometimes it’s easy, and then other times I’ll lay there for, like, an hour and a half.0:11:32 – (Christine): Okay. And what do you do to try to lull yourself back to sleep?0:11:36 – (Laurie): Sometimes I count backwards from 100. Sometimes I just try to remember things that I’ve memorized in the past, just to not think about the things that I know are going to hype me up. So I try not to think about, like, work stuff or the state of the world or things like that. I’m just, like. I try to go to, like, boring routine, like ABCD, like, just things that are going to kind of bore me.0:12:03 – (Christine): So it sounds like you’re from what I read in the questionnaire, your sleep can vary anywhere. You’re in bed maybe about seven and a half hours, but you’re sleeping maybe six to seven. What’s different on the nights that you’re getting less asleep?0:12:15 – (Laurie): I fall asleep pretty easily. So if I’m not getting sleep, it’s either because I went to bed too late, I stayed up because I waited too long, and then I didn’t feel tired, or I’m waking up in the middle of the night, and then I can’t get back to sleep. Those are my two big things. But once I lay down, like, and I turn off the light and take off my glasses, I fall asleep pretty quickly. I don’t ever lay there going, oh, hey, I can’t sleep. But it’s just when I wake up a few hours later and I go pee and I’m like, oh, I’m awake.0:12:46 – (Christine): Okay. And you read in bed before you go to sleep? Table lamp or overhead lights?0:12:52 – (Laurie): It’s just a little table lamp.0:12:53 – (Christine): Okay. In the evening time, you tend to have the lights on in the house?0:12:58 – (Laurie): Yeah.0:12:59 – (Christine): All right. And you wear, like, any blue light glasses at all when you’re reading?0:13:03 – (Laurie): No.0:13:04 – (Christine): Okay. And you have regular, like, led light bulbs in your. Your lamps?0:13:10 – (Laurie): I assume so.0:13:11 – (Christine): Okay. All right. So what’s worked well in the past, you said, is reading. And what else? When you get in a good routine, what’s. What’s that look like for you?0:13:22 – (Laurie): Tea in the evening, like after dinner? Yoga Nidra read my book, and then, you know, lights out. So that’s usually, like, a good. For me. That’s been helpful.0:13:35 – (Christine): Okay. And what would it take for you to get back to that and stay consistent with it?0:13:42 – (Laurie): I would have to set a boundary and say, this is the time I’m going to do this. This is what I’m going to be doing. You guys like people in my house. You do whatever you want. Don’t involve me. I’m busy. I’m going to be doing this. I’m doing my yoga, I’m going to read my book, and I’m going to bed, so.0:13:58 – (Christine): Okay. And then you said you’ll still make space for, you know, having an occasional late night for the tv.0:14:04 – (Laurie): Yeah. So, like, once a week on a weekend, I don’t have to get up early the next day for school or for work out. I can sleep in a little bit.0:14:12 – (Christine): So, based on what we’ve discussed so far, like, what really stands out for you? Is there anything that kind of jumps out at you, aside from the routine? Anything that we discuss that you feel needs to be part of your action plan?0:14:26 – (Laurie): My room could probably be a little bit more relaxing, a place I want to go. And it’s easy for me to relax. Like, there isn’t a pile of clothes in the corner. There’s a bunch of donation stuff sitting on top of my dresser, and, like, making that space relaxing.0:14:44 – (Christine): All right, so room environment, routine. Anything else?0:14:47 – (Laurie): I think I would like some, like, aromatherapy, something next to my bed that smells nice because I mentioned I have a dog. So sometimes I go in there and I’m like, hmm, kind of smells like dog in here. Doesn’t bother me, but I’m like, it could be better.0:15:01 – (Christine): And that kind of goes in with the environment of the room. And your nighttime routine with would get, you know, could be infusing that. So anything else I think, too, what.0:15:13 – (Laurie): Would also help me is kind of a brain dump before bed. Like, I want to make sure I do this tomorrow, or here’s what’s happening tomorrow. I know I need to do this, this and this, but just someplace where I can just kind of get it out and then it’s safe. I’m not relying on myself to remember it because.0:15:33 – (Christine): Right. That’s what kind of stands out for me with a lot of, this is, like you said, stress management, having those relaxation moments where you’re just unplugging and not doing and even, you know, not even just in the evening time before bed, but maybe even taking some kind of a timeout during the day. A lot of times we’re go, go, go, go all day, and it’s like, okay, it’s time to relax at night. And it. It doesn’t always work that well because we’re kind of wound up. We’re in that mode.0:16:02 – (Christine): So how do you feel about doing something during the day to, even if it’s just a very brief moment, to just kind of step back and do some kind of unplugging relaxation type of activity or exercise? You mentioned yoga, nidra, and actually, those can be very beneficial. Midday as well, because it helps you to kind of, you’re unplugging, relaxing, but at the same time being aware. And so that could be something again, you know, looking at things that are more unplugging, where you were just calming your body and your mind and just being, like, calm in that moment.0:16:43 – (Christine): Yoga nidra, a meditation, deep breathing. Just something where you’re just basically your mind and your body, you’re being still, if that makes sense.0:16:52 – (Laurie): Okay. Yeah. I could do ten to 15 minutes restorative yoga in the afternoon, 15 minutes before I go to get them from school. I can just shut the computer off a little bit early and do that.0:17:04 – (Christine): Yeah. Yeah. And again, it doesn’t have to be anything really long. You could be sitting in your chair doing, you know, neck stretches, time of thing, but just anything to just kind of be in that decompressing moment. Because if you think about everything we do from the moment we wake up, it’s going to. It’s going to go with us to bed at night. Learning to just decompress during the day as well so we’re not carrying it all into the evening time can really be helpful.0:17:29 – (Christine): Taking those self care moments.0:17:31 – (Laurie): Okay. I like that sometimes it’s just taking.0:17:34 – (Christine): A few deep breaths, just closing your eyes and stopping what you’re doing when you notice you’re getting wound up. I call it a mental timeout.0:17:40 – (Laurie): So I never get wound up. Christine. I’m holding my hand.0:17:45 – (Christine): Some relaxation during the day, making the environment more relaxing, having that routine. And this is all going to help with your stress management and. Right. It’s all wound up together there. The other thing that stands out for me is, you know, not getting. Being able to go back to sleep at night. It’s fragmented. What do you feel about doing something like a breathing exercise, a body scan some way, again, to not keep the brain active. What a lot of people do is they’re thinking, I need to get back to sleep. And then your brain is still thinking, you know, and it’s more stressful. So maybe, again, doing some kind of relaxing activity 0:18:27 – (Christine): It’s actually recommended. If you can’t get back to sleep after 20 minutes, you should get out of bed, go into another room where it’s quiet. And again, you could do those activities. It could maybe be reading under low light, but doing some kind of breathing, listening to relaxing music until you get sleepy again, and then go back to bed. Because what can happen is we start associating the bed with not sleeping. If we’re laying there tossing and turning so many times, you know, it can kind of start affecting you, you know, mentally, that you’re worried about not getting back to sleep. So basically, about 85% of the time that you’re in bed, you should be sleeping.0:19:03 – (Christine): And when I looked at your, your numbers, you know, it kind of varied from like six to 7 hours. But sometimes your sleep efficiency is, you know, basically anywhere from 80% to 90%. I don’t like hyper focusing on numbers, but that’s just to kind of give you a, an understanding of what that is. So you’re in bed seven and a half hours, but maybe only sleeping six to seven and a half. And so it may seem counterproductive to get out of bed when you can’t sleep, but it actually can help with you, you know, sleeping more while you’re.0:19:31 – (Laurie): Actually in the bed. You know, if not getting out of.0:19:34 – (Christine Meyer): The bed is not an option for you, you could just focus more on relaxation type of activities.0:19:40 – (Laurie): Can I get out of the bed? But like, go sit in a chair in the same room and like a meditation or something over there. You can try that.0:19:47 – (Christine): Another option too, like I said, is, you know, do just kind of, if you’re going to stay in bed, is focus on just doing those relaxing type of activities. Just focus on relaxing versus focusing on trying to sleep. That would be my suggestion for that. And then with the noise, obviously we can’t change some of the environment around us. I don’t know if you’ve tried earplugs or anything like that to help you sleep at night.0:20:10 – (Laurie): We have a sound machine that we run in the room. Seems to be helping. I find it comforting if I wake up and I hear my husband snoring, that can kind of keep me awake. But what I do then is I pretend it’s the dog snoring and then it doesn’t bother me. I had pugs for twelve years, so I always found that, like, it was very. A comforting sound to me. The other thing I meant to tell you is I have a weighted blanket and I have one of those weighted eye masks that I like to sleep, like, with on my head.0:20:36 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, whatever works for you. So your top four tips would be to create that environment in your room with aromatherapy. And you said cleaning up clutter.0:20:49 – (Laurie): Yes, it’s cluttered.0:20:50 – (Christine Meyer): Okay. How else could it become more sleep conducive for you?0:20:54 – (Laurie): I don’t think there’s really much else other than making it smell better and just knowing it’s cleaned up and tidy.0:21:01 – (Christine Meyer): It’s true. I mean, there’s actually research to show that having a cluttered room can actually contribute to stress and sleep. Just, it’s a subconscious thing, but it’s, it’s a real thing. So that sounds like that’ll be very helpful for you. So sticking with your routine of the reading, the quiet time, yoga nidra. Now, routine includes like a sleep schedule. You know what would be an ideal one for you? Not that it has to be rigid and set in stone seven days a week, but I. Ideally, what time should you be going to bed and then waking up?0:21:35 -(Laurie): Ideally, I’d like to be trying to at least sleep seven and a half to 8 hours. We get up at 630. So if I’m asleep by 10:30 with no interruptions, ideal. However, I’m going to have at least one interruption during the night. So I kind of want to give myself, like, padding. So if I could be starting my routine by 9:15 and then in bed, turning off the light at 10:00 I think would give me that buffer, like that time to unwind and then falling asleep early enough that if I do have some kind of interruption, it’s not gonna throw me off my schedule too much.0:22:13 – (Christine): Okay. And are you always waking up at the same time?0:22:16 – (Laurie): Yes, except on weekends, not as much, but during the week, that’s our standard. Everybody gets up at 6:30.0:22:23 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, so 9:15, start the wind down routine. Be in bed by ten. How confident do you feel that you can do that on a scale of one to 10, being most confident, I.0:22:34 – (Laurie): Give it a nine. It’s a matter of just prioritizing it and making it, establishing the habits.0:22:42 – (Christine Meyer): Okay. And then it sounds like the brain dump will be part of the nighttime routine then.0:22:48 – (Laurie): Yes.0:22:48 – (Christine Meyer): And you may, just might need to experiment with it. And it’s, it may change. You may find, well, I don’t like doing it this at this time. And nothing has to be really rigid, but it’s knowing that we have kind of like that menu options of things to do. And you just know this is your time for you to wind down. What do I feel like doing tonight type of a thing? It’s perfectly fine. Sounds like the brain dumps going to be definitely part of that for you. So you can, you know, keep the brain from thinking too much. You know, even if you wake up in the middle of the night, it can definitely help with that. And then during the day, finding some time for some kind of relaxation would be the third one. Right.0:23:25 – (Christine): And then we’ve got if waking up in the middle of the night, maybe going and sitting in a chair, if you can’t get back to sleep after 20 minutes, you said maybe do a meditation. What do you think you might do during that time?0:23:37 – (Laurie): I think. I think a meditation might be good. And then trying to go back to sleep.0:23:42 – (Christine): Okay, so how does that sound to you?0:23:45 – (Laurie): That sounds good. That sounds doable. It sounds like really simple, like things that I can implement. Right. Nothing or nothing here is like heavy lifting.0:23:56 – (Christine): And it sounds like you’ve got good support from your husband. If you tell him he can help hold you accountable, you can feel not guilty about it. He’ll reap the benefits.0:24:06 – (Laurie): That’s going to be his biggest motivation, that I’ll just be overall in a better mood and more agreeable.0:24:12 – (Christine Meyer): So what I’m going to be sending you is a summary of the four suggestions here and the tips as far as you know what you can do. And then there will also be like a resource page for some apps for meditation and breathing, some of my YouTube breathing videos. Another one’s a website for managing stress. But is there anything else that you feel would be helpful?0:24:36 – (Laurie): I think that would be good. What I’m afraid of is overloading going too much in the opposite of like now. You know, I have a few things to do, but I’m so anxious to solve this problem. I’m going to try to do too many things. So I kind of want to keep it the handful of things I’m going to do.0:24:50 – (Christine Meyer): As far as the session today, how was that for you?0:24:53 – (Laurie): Very good. It really helped to kind of verbalize and reinforce, you know, why it is that I want to do this.0:25:00 – (Christine Meyer): Okay, good. I will give you our summary and everything.0:25:04 – (Laurie): This is great.0:25:04 – (Christine Meyer): Thank you, Christine.0:25:05 – (Laurie): Okay, you’re welcome. See you later. Check out Part 2 of my 30-Day Sleep Challenge Results

Key Takeaways: Quotes: Resources Mentioned: About Teri:  Teri Patterson is a Functional Nutritionist and a This Naked Mind Senior Coach. Teri blends her knowledge of nutrition with her passion for living an alcohol-free life into a unique business as The Sober Nutritionist. Teri’s mission is to help her clients discover how drinking less can be… Key Takeaways: Growing Awareness: The awareness and participation in Dry January have significantly increased in recent years. In 2021, about 13% of Americans considered participating, while in 2022, this number rose to 35%, indicating a growing wellness conversation around mindful breaks from drinking. Non-Alcoholic Beverage Industry: The rise of Dry January has led to an increase in non-alcoholic beverage options, with major companies introducing alcohol-free products to support the movement. Mindful Break from Drinking: Dry January is not about depriving oneself but about taking a mindful break from alcohol. Shifting the mindset from deprivation to gaining new ways to honor the body is a more empowering approach. Potential Benefits of Dry January: Improved energy levels Reduced anxiety Better sleep Less brain fog Enhanced mood Skip the goals, set Intentions: Instead of setting rigid goals, focus on setting intentions. Ask yourself why you want to participate in Dry January and how you want to feel at the end of the month. Curiosity and Mindset: Approach Dry January with curiosity. Pay attention to any challenges, cravings, or shifts in mindset. Curiosity helps suspend judgment and fosters a more positive experience. Common Dry January Misconceptions: Some may see Dry January as a way to prove they don’t have a drinking problem. It’s essential to recognize that willpower alone may not lead to lasting change; tools and support are crucial. That one must complete the full 31 days, or the effort is wasted. Each day offers valuable data points to guide the journey. Benefits Beyond January: February 1st is not the end; it’s an opportunity to ease into the insights gained. Use journaling to reflect on the experience, revisit initial intentions, and design the post-January period intentionally. Rediscovering Fun Sober: Challenge the myth that “sober is boring.” Reconnect with activities and experiences without relying on alcohol. Engage in hobbies, socialize, and find joy in the absence of alcohol. Quotes: “If sober is boring, you’re doing it wrong.” “We have to ask ourselves, is that true? What happened when I was 10 and I was running around in the backyard playing with my friends and we were playing doorbell ditch and laughing and hoping we didn’t get caught or running through the sprinklers. Where is that person? That person is still inside of us.” “February 1st is not the, you know, you don’t put the key in the lock and now I’m out of jail. Imagine February 1st as the time to just ease into the information that you’ve gained and allow yourself to say. Okay. Wow. That was really interesting.” Resources Mentioned: The history of Dry January The Alcohol Experiment Journal (Amazon affiliate link) – https://amzn.to/3TGpNjm The Alcohol Experiment (Amazon affiliate link) https://amzn.to/3vojE0R The Luckiest Club Smart Recovery About Teri:  Teri Patterson is a Functional Nutritionist and a This Naked Mind Senior Coach. Teri blends her knowledge of nutrition with her passion for living an alcohol-free life into a unique business as The Sober Nutritionist. Teri’s mission is to help her clients discover how drinking less can be the key to better health. Teri is also the host of the popular podcast The Sober Edge, Inspiration for Alcohol-Free Living and the creator of the brand-new SELF Experience, a place for women after alcohol who want to build a life by design, not by default. Connect with Teri: On her website: https://thesobernutritionist.com/ On Instagram:  @teri.thesobernutritionist/ Download Teri’s Free gift: Drinking Through the Decades Stock up on New NA Beverages! 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Episode Transcript: Laurie: Welcome, everyone. Today, Teri Patterson, also known as the Sober Nutritionist, is back on the show, and she’s here to chat with us about Dry January, what it is, and how taking a mindful break from alcohol and approaching it with curiosity can lead to a new awareness about how alcohol is showing up in your life and impacting your health and wellness. Welcome, Teri.  Teri: It’s so nice to be here. I’m excited to be back on your podcast and having a conversation around dry January. Laurie: You are like my expert on very compassionately examining our relationship with alcohol and what it means and how it shows up and looking at all the ways that it’s impacting the different areas of our life. So I’m excited to dig in with you as we’re coming up to January. And a lot of people will be participating in the Dry January. So I really want to get some information out there for people to help them participate successfully, however it looks for them. What we’re going to start with is in case anybody doesn’t know what is dry January and why it’s becoming more popular in recent years. Teri: Yes, we see the roots of dry January actually from 2013 when a British organization called Alcohol Concern, they actually started a charitable fundraiser around taking a 30 day break from drinking alcohol. And the reason they picked January was of course, because traditionally people might want to make some healthy changes. But the other interesting part is they did it because the pubs and the bars don’t get as much business during January. So they thought, Oh, this is a good time for people who aren’t necessarily going out to the pub so much. To take a mindful break from drinking. And so that’s really the roots of it. And it was done to help raise money. And, uh, it’s been fascinating because the movement has grown since then. And now it is absolutely huge. And I was looking up some statistics because what we see in the United States, it’s really interesting in these last few years as awareness. around taking a mindful break from drinking has become more popular. We see these dry January numbers just increasing exponentially. So in 2021, we had about 13 percent of the American populations say, yes, I’m considering, or I am going to participate in dry January. And in 2022, 35 percent of Americans said they wanted to participate. So you can see that the awareness, the wellness conversation around taking a break is really growing. And to support that, we’re seeing a lot of companies jumping into the non alcoholic beverage industry, seeing big names now like Heineken Zero, for example. Everyone is coming out with their own version of an alcohol free product to support this movement.  Laurie: I have noticed that, Teri. I’ve seen so many ads just in the last year popping up everywhere for non alcoholic versions of alcoholic drinks for people who want to feel like they’re still social or they still can have that drink, but without the alcohol impact. I was going to say too, that In January, we tend to see a lot of, like, the pendulum swing. So, like, December is a big month for indulgence. People like to eat a lot of special foods and, and they tend to maybe not move as much. They’re out of their regular routine. And by the end of December, people are at a point they’re like, I just want to get back into doing the things that I normally do that make me feel good. Sleeping more, moving more, eating the foods that I’m used to eating on a regular basis that make my insides feel good. We see that pendulum go from like really enjoying to [00:04:00] restriction. I’m going to start a diet. I’m going to start cutting out all these foods starting January 1st. I have a resolution. I’m not going to do X, Y, Z. If you’ve been a big drinker over the holidays, it’s probably one of those things that people are just like, Oh, I really overdid it. Maybe I need to take a break, or maybe I need to kind of look at what this means. Teri: Exactly. And so we often want to be like, it’s like an alcohol timeout, you know, so I’m going to take this time out and alcohol is the enemy and you know, and, and I’m, I’m deprived. I’m sitting over here in the no fun corner, not drinking for the month of January. Right. And so. It, again, when we go back to mindset, it’s really powerful to think about what we’re gaining versus what we’re giving up because we can maybe look at it as deprivation and that’s just not going to serve us in the long term. So it’s so much more powerful to say, Oh my gosh, I found new ways to honor my body.  Laurie: 100 percent because when I went vegan, like 150 years ago, it feels like, at the time it was more like. I approached it with curiosity. What would happen if I took 30 days where I didn’t consume this? How would I feel? Would I feel better? I’ll give myself permission. As soon as you say, I can’t have, I can’t, like it’s off limits. Your brain goes, Oh, I have never wanted that more in my entire life than I do right now. But if you kind of approach it with here’s, you know what, I’m going to see how it feels and just keep my mind open and be aware of like what’s going on here and there and just make note. How does that feel in my body? Right. So approaching alcohol the same way, what you’re gaining could be, you know, better digestion, better sleep, more energy, more friends, more clarity, like all of these great things can come from this that you wouldn’t experience necessarily if you don’t take that break or approach Dry January with that curiosity. I love that you mentioned that. Teri: It’s also interesting too, as you say, we, we want to be mindful that when we go from indulgence to restriction that, you know, we need to have time for our mindset to catch up. And one of the things I really love about dry January is it’s no longer feels like something that gets sprung on us. January 1st, we now see a lot of opportunity to sort of prepare and think about it and plan and have some intention behind it. And we’re also seeing that it’s not, uh, you’re not an outlier. Any longer when you choose to participate in dry January, I think if you pay attention, your listeners and all of us will notice more people say, Oh yeah, I’m going to take a month off. I’m going to, um, you know, participate in dry January and it’s now seen as positive. It’s no longer like, Oh, I have a problem. I need to take a break from alcohol.   Laurie: I love that. It’s just taking a step back and saying, I’m not the only one doing it. We’re all doing this together. It’s a positive thing. It doesn’t automatically mean, you know, you have any kind of label around your alcohol consumption, but we’re being curious about how this is showing up for us. So you talked about a couple of things that I really want to dig into. When we participate in Dry January, we go the 31 days, cutting back on alcohol and examining the impact that it’s having, what are some benefits, either mentally, physically, after the end of that experience? Teri: So it depends on if people really are able to go 31 days not drinking, you’re going to have different effects than if you cut way back. Like, let’s say you have your couple glasses of wine every night, which is perfect. Very common. And let’s say you decide I’m only going to drink once a week. You’re going to experience some benefits for sure. Because anytime we take what is basically a toxin out of our system, we’re going to feel better. Uh, and if you are able to go 31 days with no alcohol, you’re going to exponentially feel even better. And so one of the things I think is really powerful is just notice if it feels challenging. To not drink. That’s one of the first things that happened for me was I thought, well, I’ll take a break and cut back because I realized that, you know, I was drinking more than I wanted to. I was feeling kind of crappy a lot of mornings. I just didn’t like that. My brain kept saying, well, when’s the next drink? When’s the next drink? So when I tried to cut back, that’s when I realized, oh, this might be a little bit more of an issue than I thought. So I think inviting people to just get really curious about, is this, A challenge for me. Is this feel hard? Am I feeling more cravings mentally, physically? And so I think that is a really important part of this. And then once we do cut back, we’re going to start seeing things like we’re going to have more energy. We’re going to have less anxiety. One thing that people don’t often realize is that alcohol creates more anxiety because of the adrenaline and cortisol releases in our body. And so sometimes we think, well, when I drink, I feel less anxiety or I drink because I’m stressed. And initially because alcohol is both a stimulant and a depressant, we do get a little bit of that buzzy euphoric feeling. And we might feel like, Oh, I’m not so stressed, but that lasts a very short period of time. And then the depressive. Parts of alcohol last much, much longer. So we’re actually Increasing anxiety when we drink so people often notice. Wow, my mood feels a little lighter they’re gonna notice things like potentially within a couple of weeks, you’ll have hopefully better sleep and We’re going to notice less brain fog lots of different effects. Laurie: That’s really interesting the beginning of your comment was depending on what the goal is. Is it to abstain completely? Is it to cut back? Can we talk a little bit about how to realistically set a goal for dry January and what that might look like? Teri: Yeah, I love this question. This is so good because I like to think of rather than setting a goal, which sometimes looks like very black and white, you know, I succeeded if I made it 30 days, I failed because I only made it 10 days and then I had a drink. I like to help people set an intention and an intention allows us to have sort of, how do I want to feel? What is my motivation behind taking a break? And so for people to be successful, I think it’s really powerful to bring in some curiosity because curiosity helps us suspend judgment. And what I love about this is you said, I want to participate in Dry January. I would ask to tell me why. And you might say, well, I hear there’s a lot of benefits to cutting out drinking and I’ve been drinking a little bit more than I want to, or I’m noticing that. I’m thinking about alcohol more than I want to. And so we can start right there and say, well, great. How do you want to feel at the end of January? And you’d say, Oh, I want to feel proud of myself. I want to feel motivated to take on more health challenges. I want to sleep better. I want to be able to go to the ladies book club and say, no, thank you when they pass the wine. So I think those are all really important things to bring in. So we’ve taken it from a very black and white, I’m going to go 31 days without drinking alcohol into something that is personal to you, the individual. And that can make a huge difference in how we follow through with that stated goal.  Laurie: I do see this too with eating and creating these food rules and things and they start out with black and white, I’m going to do this, I’m not going to do this. And then three days in, if something is such an ingrained habit that they didn’t even realize, and it’s so. It’s hard for them to not do the thing they want to do or to do the thing they don’t want to do. It becomes a failure point and it’s completely devastating mentally and it throws off the whole experience. Then they’re quote unquote starting over, they failed. So I love that you’re saying, look at the intention. How do you want to feel? Let’s Let’s reverse engineer this process from where you want to end up instead of trying to power through something that might not really be a good fit for you. And it might actually set you up to be worse off than maybe you are now. And, and really feeling worse about yourself, about the whole thing. So I love that you’re, you’re reframing it as a, an intention versus a hard and fast goal of XYZ, I’m going to do this, I’m not going to do this. So I love that. Let’s talk about some of the misconceptions that people might have about participating in Dry January.   Teri: I think a lot of times people will have a mindset that if I can take 30 or 31 days off, that means I don’t have a drinking problem. I’m going to prove to myself that this is not an issue. And what I find sometimes is you can go probably 30 days with just willpower. You can avoid all the usual places. You can suffer through this idea of depriving yourself. And then on February 1st, let’s bring out the cocktails because I did it. Let’s celebrate with alcohol. This is something that. people will do because they are not building in the tools behind the taking a break. So we can change our behavior for a short period of time, but [00:14:00] willpower, as we know, will run out. And so it’s really important to have The mindset, the habit change, the intention, you know, the routines to get support in all of these areas if we want to make this more successful and we want to come out the other end, you know, saying, wow, I learned a lot about my relationship with alcohol. I’m more curious in these ways. I have some maybe work to do over here. I felt really good. Um, and so, you know, If you’re considering dry January, I invite you to just look at the why, you know, am I trying to prove I don’t have a drinking problem? Well, anytime we ask is alcohol a problem for me, that’s a clue, right? And so if that’s you, if you’re saying, wow, you know, maybe. This is a problem. I invite you to reverse that. Instead of asking, do I have a problem with [00:15:00] alcohol? Ask yourself, is alcohol adding anything to my life? Is alcohol serving me? Is alcohol making my life better? And that again is just an open ended curious question that allows us to say, huh, yeah. Maybe it’s not. Maybe it used to be fun. And now I find myself drinking even though I don’t want to. And so we might think that dry January is this proving to ourself that, you know, I’m okay. And the reason I started there, Laurie, about your question is because a lot of clients have shared this with me. Like I told myself, if I could take a month off, then all bets were off. I’m fine. And so I think the other misconception is that you’re, you have to go 31 days. Or that February 1st is now the goal. And so I invite you to stay mindful throughout the 31 days. Oh, I drank [00:16:00] on day seven. Oh, I drank on day nine. Oh, I didn’t drink again until January 27th. And pay attention to those times when you felt like I really want to drink or I must drink, you know, or it just happened that I found myself with a drink in my hand. Like these are things that we can use during the month that look very different than the myth of I’m going to get through 31 days with, you know, no problem or to prove something to myself. And it’s also really powerful to just allow that if you have, we call them data points. So if you have a drink, it’s information. What happened? Like if you’re running a marathon and you trip on mile three, you don’t start back at mile one. You just keep going. And so it’s helpful to drop the myth that if I have a drink, oh, well, I’m like half the other population. I drank on day 10. It’s over. No. Use that information to guide you in the next 20 days.  Laurie: That’s really helpful, Teri, and I love that you mentioned your data points, because I was just going to say, I remember from our past conversation, instead of having that all or nothing, black or white, oops, I tripped and fell, it’s over, I’m starting from the beginning, approach it with curiosity, look at the situation, what were the conditions, what was the environment, what was the mindset, and then just look at that information and see what you can pull out of there. I love that. One of the things that might be a challenge for somebody is that They are approaching Dry January. They want to participate. They don’t know anybody else who’s doing it. They don’t have a support group. They don’t have a bunch of friends that they can hang out with.  Teri: Well, I think what you’re mentioning here, Laurie, is really powerful is to have some support outside of ourself. You know, one of the things that, uh, comes up when I’m working with clients around this journey is we spend a lot of time beating ourselves up in our own head. And so we could start to create a lot of stories around, oh, it’s not going well, or you’re never going to be able to do this. But when we’re in a group, we have the other person saying, I believe in you, I’m cheering you on, this is going well, you’re doing it. And so it is so helpful to be in community during dry January, and it’s not hard to find a dry January community. There are going to be lots of opportunities. So I think we just start with asking Google, you know, what is available in my area? You could do it online. You can do it maybe in person. There might be a blended atmosphere where people say, hey, We’re going to have, um, hiking every Saturday morning during dry January so that you have a reason to get up at 6 a.m. Or 7 a. m. As opposed to, oh, you know, I drank on Friday night and now I, I’m going to sleep until 11 and I didn’t make the running group. So setting up a little accountability and a little companionship is really helpful. Laura McCowan has a group called The Luckiest Club. You can join that. I think it’s very inexpensive, $25 a month or something, and you could join that for dry January. There’s free smart recovery groups, uh, that will be featuring some things for dry January. I did my first dry January as a leader, not an individual. And I guess I did my first dry January without even thinking about it in 2016 because I wasn’t drinking by then. But in 2020, I worked with This Naked Mind in their live alcohol experiment for January, and there was about 3, 000 individuals that came at that time who wanted to go through a 30 day program. It’s very inexpensive, uh, to have coaching support, to see other people also experiencing this. One of the things that can happen, Laurie, is when we are drinking and overdrinking or drinking more than we want to, or questioning our drinking, we often think we’re the only one. And so when we see other people say, Oh yeah, you know, somehow five o’clock is really hard, or I do great, you know, Sunday through Tuesday. And then what is it about Wednesday? And so when we have this support, it helps us get out of our own way. And helps us, you know, again, have that accountability and that support where other people are also going through the same thing. And we don’t feel so isolated. One of the other things I’ll say about having some accountability or some support is, uh, if you Don’t tell anyone, then no one knows if you’re doing well, no one is noticing. No one’s cheering you on. Um, for example, I just recently, um, have been going through a health challenge of my own, so I had some food sensitivity tests and I can’t eat eggs right now and I can’t have dairy. And so I was talking to my daughter about a recipe to make some Christmas cookies and she was like, “Mom, You can’t make that. It has butter!” And I was like “Oh, you’re right!” But if no one knew I was trying to cut out dairy, I could just go about my business and pretend it wasn’t really happening. You know, and my brain, because we’re humans, we want to avoid discomfort, seek pleasure. I don’t make the cookies with butter and pretend I don’t have, I’m not supposed to be giving up dairy. So some of that. External accountability is really helpful to just be like, Oh yeah, it’s like going to the gym and you’re in a group class versus going to the gym and just looking around and saying, well, I’ll do five minutes on the treadmill or I’ll lift the five pound weight. But when you’re in the group, it’s very different. The instructor saying, pick up those 10 pound weights. You know, do this, do that. So use that as a motivation to help you through this dry January.  Laurie: So don’t do a secret dry January, make it, share it, share it with those around you so that they can help you, cheer you on, be those extra eyeballs and ears and shoulders. Teri: And remind you of your, of your intention, like, gosh, you know, um, Let’s go for a walk. You don’t need a glass of wine right now. Let’s take a walk. And if you still want a glass of wine, have a glass of wine. But, you know, having that, I love the word secret. Yeah. Don’t, you know, save the secret Santa for December and have an out loud, public dry January.  Laurie: Loud and proud dry January. I love that. Teri: People want to know, like, what do I tell people about not drinking? So dry January is awesome because people just say, Oh, I’m doing dry January. And everybody’s like, Oh, okay. It’s not that you have a problem. Everybody’s doing dry January. We touched  Laurie: on this a little bit, but maybe we can dig in a little bit more. You said over here in the no fun corner. Right? So if we start to feel like, oh my gosh, if I take out drinking, what am I going to do?  Teri: Yeah, there is a huge myth out there, Lori, that sober is boring. And I like to say if sober is boring, you’re doing it wrong. Because what we realize is that we have. often built alcohol into all of the activities. I mean, for example, you know, oh, we’re going to go on a picnic. Oh, get that special bottle of rosé so I can drink during the day. Oh, we’re going to baby shower. Well, we have to have mimosas, you know, oh gosh, we’re going to have pizza and watch the game. I need a beer. And so, What we’ve done is we’ve really trained ourselves to rely on alcohol, and then we see alcohol as the fun factor, but that’s not true. Uh, I had a client who was very concerned in her mind. She thought, well, if I give up alcohol, you know, what really bothers me is I have this memory that I was in Italy and I was sitting out on the terrace with my husband and looking over the vineyards and the little old wizened old winemaker came out with this very special old bottle and he poured us this drink and it was magic. You know, the moment was magical and I, I just can’t imagine never experiencing that again. And so what I told her was, I said, okay, so let’s imagine this. Let’s look at that bottle of wine that he poured for you. And I want you to think about taking that bottle of wine into your closet. And I want you to sit in the dark and close the door and have a drink of wine. And then I want you to come out of the closet metaphorically and imagine being on this terrace in Italy. And. You can smell the flowers, you’re experiencing the warm afternoon sun, it’s a beautiful vista, you are sitting across from your husband who you are just gazing into his eyes thinking this moment is so magical, and the little old wizened man comes out and he pours you this special juice that they make from these old apples. And you toast each other and you think, I’m, this moment is magical. So tell me, Laurie in that moment, was it the wine? Or was it the experience? So when we think about, you know, well, I have to have alcohol to have fun. We have to ask ourselves, is that true? What happened when I was 10 and I was running around in the backyard playing with my friends and we were playing doorbell ditch and laughing and hoping we didn’t get caught or running through the sprinklers. Where is that person? That person is still inside of us. We just decided that we needed alcohol. So we had fun at some point in our life without alcohol and we can get there again and much of it is a mindset shift.  Laurie: Absolutely true. I love that. February 1st, Dry January is over.  Teri: Now what? First of all, February 1st is not the, you know, you don’t put the key in the lock and now I’m out of jail. Imagine February 1st as the time to just ease into the information that you’ve gained and allow yourself to say. Okay. Wow. You know, that was really interesting. And now I’m at a new place. Now I have more information. I have new experiences and I really want to see what this means moving forward. And for many people, it will be a place of new awareness around the impact that alcohol has been having. And, you know, I have lots of clients that come to me and they say, well, you know, I’m here at this place where I’m drinking more than I want to, that, you know, things are happening that I don’t like, I don’t feel as good. Now that I’m older, perhaps, you know, alcohol is having more of an impact. But they say, I don’t want to stop drinking forever. And so, you know, this is a really important awareness when we say, well, what are the benefits of alcohol? If we took alcohol out for a month and we felt better and we found socializing wasn’t as hard and we enjoyed the community aspect. that. Do we really want to go back to putting a toxin in our body on a regular basis or every day? So, you know, I invite people on February 1st to explore. Well, what does it mean? And one of the best ways I think to do this is to journal and to really write down like, okay, here’s how I felt during this month. Here is the good, the bad, the ugly. And what do I want to do with this information? Uh, you know, really design Your February rather than just default into the old patterns. And that again, takes some intention. And so while dry January, it might be like, uh, people think, well, it’s a month without alcohol. What if it’s a month exploring your relationship with alcohol? And then there’s more to do maybe in February and March and April.   Laurie: I love that Teri, because you said January doesn’t have to just be a month without alcohol. It could actually be a month with …Whatever we’ve been not doing because of alcohol, what are some activities or, or things have you been putting off or not interested in doing or not had time for because you’ve been doing all of these events or activities that are based on alcohol, what can you kind of fill in and explore and try? And maybe that becomes things that you do in February. And I like that you were talking about journaling because then it gives you a chance to revisit who you were on January 1st, why you started it, what were you thinking, how are you feeling, and be able to look back and revisit. Each of these different points, maybe you did have a drink, what was going on, it’s so much, it’s so much easier to recall and go back to that when you’ve written it down. Ask me how I know. Instead of trying to like remember and just kind of think at the end, like, Hmm, how did that go? Well, guess what?  Teri: I don’t remember. You know, Annie Grace does have the 30-Day Alcohol Experiment as a book. So that’s a good resource as well. It’s not a journal, but there’s questions and there’s, you know, a 30 days, like each day it talks about something different, like alcohol and socializing, alcohol and anger. Laurie: That’s a great resource. I’m glad you mentioned it. I will put the link to that in the show notes as well. Terry, we’re going to wrap up and I was hoping that you could give us your top three tips for participating in Dry January.  Teri: Tip # 1, I’m going to take a page from your playbook and say, write down your intention. What do I want to experience during the month of January? Why? How will I know if I was successful? And I invite you to redefine success. So I’ll know because I was I was paying attention. I brought in awareness. I asked questions. I made new choices like those types of things. So I invite people to really explore Their intention and their why behind taking a 30 day break and then write that down. And that can be the very first tip is to set that intention in writing. How do I want to feel? What is my motivation for doing dry January? And then the second tip would be, ask some questions when you feel like drinking. What am I thinking alcohol will provide in this moment? Am I thinking that, oh, I’m feeling a little social anxiety and alcohol will help, or I’m bored, or I’m lonely, or I feel sad? stressed? All of these things are going to be really powerful to start to untangle where alcohol started to become our go to. And then the third thing that we touched on is that community aspect. Don’t do this. In secret share with someone you maybe you’re not a joiner. You don’t want to join a big group although I invite you to consider it but have some support somewhere [00:31:00] so that you have someone cheering you on someone to help keep you accountable And someone to share some of these thoughts with because if this is brand new for you, there’s going to be a lot going on because our brain has defaulted to alcohol perhaps for a long time. And so you deserve to have that support You know, the NA beverage, the non alcoholic beverage industry is really growing. So have some fun with maybe some mocktails or some special hop water or some kombucha or some teas. Enjoy having an adult beverage. If you had a ritual of pouring a drink every night, just change what’s in the glass and allow yourself to just say, wow, it feels really different when I have that sparkling tea versus my, you know, my, uh, hard cider and enjoy that. There’s so many resources out there and you’re going to find a lot more popping up as we get closer to January. So have fun with that. Laurie: That’s a really good tip to have something prepared, have a plan for when you normally would have something, swap it in with something else, try it out. Those are great tips, Teri.  Teri: I don’t have something specific to Dry January, but I do have a program that I’ve recently created called Stop Drinking in Your 50s and Beyond. And it is a six week program. And in that program, it’s a self paced program. And so, uh, it, what it is, is for Every week you have five days of activities and then two days of application. So on three days a week, you have a short video, no more than 10 minutes. And then one day a week, you have a journal prompt. And one day a week, you have kind of a tactic to work on. And so I really believe that to make this a journey that is successful, you need to have knowledge, application and some tools. Laurie: Teri, I’m going to be putting all of your links into the show notes and I really do appreciate that you shared your new program information with us and I’m going to be putting the link to that if anybody wants to learn more. You’re on social? Yes. Okay, perfect. I’ll be putting those in the show notes with all of your information so our listeners can connect with you in all of the different places where you are. Thank you, Teri.  Teri: Yes. Thank you, Laurie. And good luck to all of your listeners if you decide to try Dry January. I’m cheering you on. ​

In this episode ‘The Healing Power of yoga’ Tashya Knight, certified health educator, health coach, and yoga instructor shares her journey into healing power of yoga, emphasizing its role in her wellness and the surprising benefits she experienced. Table of ContentsKey TakeawaysQuotesResources MentionedJoin Tashya for a free classConnect with TashyaEpisode Transcript: The discussion covers the physical and mental health benefits of a regular yoga practice, busting yoga myths and highlighting its impact on physical, mental and emotional health. Tashya elaborates on the importance of self-acceptance, self-confidence, and spending time with yourself in yoga. We dive into Tashya’s approach to yoga as a healing practice, particularly in addressing trauma and promoting breath awareness and how finding the right yoga style, teacher, and studio are important to create a positive and welcoming experience. Key Takeaways • The power of Yoga as a Holistic Wellness Practice – it’s not just as a physical activity but a holistic practice affecting mental and emotional well-being. • A regular yoga practice has diverse health benefits including stress management, anxiety reduction, improved sleep, lower cortisol levels, enhanced cardiovascular health, and even potential relief from migraines • It’s important to approach yoga with an open mind and curiosity. Each person’s body is unique, and yoga should be personalized to meet individual needs. Modifications and variations are encouraged, promoting a sense of self-acceptance and self-confidence • Restorative yoga is a practice focused on rest and relaxation. The poses involve the use of props and aim to calm the nervous system, providing an opportunity for deep relaxation and self-care Quotes “I can’t imagine my life without yoga. I can’t imagine not sharing this with other people and helping them to calm their anxiety. It’s helped me with my depression. It has helped me with stress.” “Yes, it is slow because it’s asking you to slow down. You’ve lived your life in a form of, you know, whatever goes on in your daily life, taking some time to yourself.” “[Your practice] is all about you, and it’s yours. So finding ways to use breath allows you to find ways to get quiet, to slow down, to take a minute that’s just yours.” “Restorative yoga is it’s just really a time to rest your mind and rest your body, which I think is something we all need in our time right now where we’re constantly on the go.” Resources Mentioned New Study Explores How Yoga Reduces Stress The Effect of Yoga on Stress, Anxiety, and Depression in Women Exploring the therapeutic effects of yoga and its ability to increase quality of life Effect of Yoga on migraine: A comprehensive study using clinical profile and cardiac autonomic functions  The effectiveness of yoga in modifying risk factors for cardiovascular disease and metabolic syndrome Impact of Yoga on Inflammatory Biomarkers Join Tashya for a free class Tashya hosts a virtual Saturday morning restorative yoga class, so no matter where you are, you can join Tashya at 10am Eastern for an hour of self-care as you start your weekend. Want to join Tashya for a virtual yoga class? CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP About Tashya:  Tashya is a former educator with a Bachelor’s in Education and a Master’s in Health Promotion.After finishing her degree, she became a certified health education specialist (CHES). Combining this with her health coaching certification she has created programs, curriculums, lessons, and experiences on the subject matters of mindfulness, yoga, wellness, SEL, self-care, and empowerment. Enrolling in a yoga teacher training allowed Tashya to do the hard work of healing herself by applying yoga philosophy, meditation, and aspects of her wellness coaching. She removed herself from toxic behaviors and relationships. Using her own experiences, she has been able to create programs that empower women to thrive as their best selves. After leaving the classroom, Tashya worked for several different non-profit organizations teaching kids cooking classes, nutrition education, social emotional learning skills, girl’s empowerment, yoga, mindfulness, and self-care practices. She is a professionally trained and certified health coach and yoga instructor. Tashya is a passionate advocate for promoting wellness and empowering young people and adults to know their worth and practice self-care on a daily basis. She currently resides in Brooklyn, NY where she continues to teach yoga, coach clients, and write about various wellness topics. Connect with Tashya On her website: www.wellness13.com On Instagram: @wellness13llc Join Tashya for a virtual yoga class: https://www.wellness13.com/book-a-yoga-class/ Episode Transcript: Laurie: Welcome everyone. Today I am talking to Tasha Knight, who you may recall has been a guest on the show already, but this time she’s back to talk to us about the benefits of a regular yoga practice. Now you might also remember that Tasha is a former teacher turned certified health educator, health coach, and yoga instructor. And she discovered yoga while she was working on her master’s degree in health promotion. And now she’s on a mission to empower individuals who are interested in taking a more holistic approach to their wellness journey. Welcome back, Tasha. Tashya: Thank you, Laurie. Laurie: What I would like to do is start with kind of like your backstory and how you got into yoga and definitely like your journey to becoming a yoga teacher. Can you tell us about that? Tashya: Yes, absolutely. I actually came to yoga through meditation first. People usually come to yoga first and then find their way to meditation. But I was in grad school and my master’s is in health promotion. And I had one semester, we had an entire class on meditation. So we were learning the philosophy. We were learning background and all of that. And we had to practice different types of meditation. So I started practicing the meditations. This is not about meditation, but the usual thoughts, I can’t do meditation. I can’t say it and had a lot of misconceptions about it. really began to understand and dive into it a little bit more. And then from that started a meditation practice and then thought, Hey, maybe I should do a yoga class. So I took a couple of yoga classes and I actually wrote a blog post about this on my website. I didn’t like yoga and I didn’t think that I could do yoga. And I thought like, I can’t slow down. I can’t sit still. I can’t get quiet. I’d rather do a different type of movement, something a little more hardcore. Because I had been practicing the meditation, I found that when I showed up to the yoga class, it, I was able to practice it. I was able to connect to the breath and find that because I had learned how to slow down in the meditation. Did I ever think I was going to be a yoga teacher? No. If you had asked me ten years ago, that wouldn’t even have been on my list of goals or aspirations. For some reason, I just felt like that was the next step for me. I was already a health coach. I had already gotten the degree in health promotion. I was already, you know, helping people and being of service in that way. And then I started getting ads for this yoga program that was specifically for educators. And as you know, Laurie, I used to be a teacher. And so I thought, of course, I’ll go learn how to be a yoga teacher around my people, around other educators. And that’s what I found myself doing. So I ended up taking a yoga teacher training that was specifically for educators, very social, emotional learning based learning, how to incorporate that into your classes. And I loved it. And I started to dive more into the philosophy and more into deepening my yoga practice, deepening my meditation practice, learning how to breathe better and all of that. And now I can’t imagine my life without yoga. I can’t imagine not sharing this. with other people and helping them to calm their anxiety. It’s helped me with my depression. It has helped me with stress. It has helped me to just calm down in a world where I am constantly busy, busy, go, go, go. And this has just given me another tool for self care and to feel better in my life. Laurie: Okay, so you already dipped your toe here into my next question, which is how can a yoga practice contribute to overall better health? And you mentioned some things that have been helpful for you. People may have a like a preconception about yoga, which is you go, you do some stretches, you lay on a mat. How does this help? But some very specific studies have been done on how yoga can help you physically and mentally. I just want to make sure people are aware of that. Yoga has been shown to help lower cortisol levels, which is a stress hormone. So it helps with stress management, which is a huge factor in improving mental health. It’s also been shown to reduce anxiety and depression symptoms. It has been shown to help reduce chronic pain, reducing chronic inflammation. It’s also been shown that it can help with your cardiovascular health, and this is amazing that it actually can impact your heart rate, your blood pressure, your cholesterol. It’s also been shown to help you sleep better, and because a lot of yoga practices incorporate breathing, it can actually make your lungs stronger. So it might help if you have any kind of chronic lung conditions. And then the last thing I’ll note is that it has been shown to help with migraines. So if migraines are something that you struggle with, there’s a study that has shown that yoga may help to reduce the number of migraine headaches that you are experiencing. I think that’s amazing that all of this can be done through yoga. What are some other ways that yoga can really improve physical and mental health when you have a regular practice? Tashya: Well, I think that it, um, allows you to spend time with yourself, right? So it improves your self acceptance. I think it improves your self confidence, right? Because your. listening to yourself, right? Like when I say, I say often at the beginning of a class is I’m just your guide, you know, your body and your mind’s better than I do. So what you need to do to make yoga, it’s all about you and it’s yours. So finding ways to use breath, right? Connecting your breath to your movement It allows you to find ways to get quiet, to slow down, to take a minute, right? That’s just yours. It also allows you to move your body in certain ways. And I know that we have spoken before about trauma, and it allows you to move some of that through your body. It builds a more, um, stable foundation for yourself, helping you with balance, helping you with flexibility, with mobility. And as we start to get older, um, we, some of that gets a little lost, right? So helping to build that strength and helping to build that balance and flexibility and mobility for yourself is really important for physical health. And it’s important for emotional and mental health because you’re doing that check in. You’re taking time to listen to what’s coming up for you. And then hopefully not brushing that aside or stepping it down, hopefully taking some time to, um, bring that in. There’s more aspects of yoga than just the movement, right? There’s the meditation, there’s the breath work, there’s the learning to sit. There’s also the living in your values. How are you showing up off the mat? And that’s a whole nother class in itself. So I won’t dive into that. So maybe that’s a, uh, another interview, but, um, I just think that it helps you in so many different ways in showing up for your life and connecting to who you truly are. Laurie: I love that. Tashya: I just really want to use yoga as a healing practice more so than a workout. Thinking from a trauma informed lens, how can we use yoga as a way to move our trauma through our body? Because we store it, I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book, The Body Keeps Score, by Bessel Van Der Kolk. And talks a lot about how we are not able to process the trauma.Whether it is repressed memories, and sometimes it’s not even that. We know the trauma happened, we remember the trauma happened, but we don’t allow ourselves to deal with it. It’s more of a like, okay, that happened, stuff it down, move on. We wonder why our bodies are sick, our minds are sick. And so we wonder why that is. And it’s because we’ve allowed that all to be trapped in. So my goal with yoga is finding a way to use it into connecting to your breath, moving your body. Yes, it stretches you, which is very important, but also using that just to learn how to breathe better, how to, you know, cause meditation is part of yoga and how to calm our nervous system down.How to find a way to cope with our stressors. That’s a little bit more healthier than some other avenues. That is really how I approach yoga. A lot of people are like, Oh, it’s too slow. So I don’t want it as my workout. Yes, it is slow because it’s asking you to slow down. You’ve lived your life in a form of, you know, whatever goes on in your daily life, taking some time to yourself. So, you know one of my big things is about finding self care for us. And it doesn’t just mean. Put on a sheet face mask and take a bubble bath or, um, it can be, I mean, I do those things. Not right now. It’s a little hot these days, but you know, once it becomes colder and winter, that’s definitely something I enjoy. But finding one hour in your day where You sit with yourself, or you have that gentle movement, or you are working on your breath, or you’re thinking about some of the topics or, um, statements that maybe I bring up during the class as you’re moving, that is you taking care of yourself. That is you giving yourself self care. That is you giving yourself love by allowing that one hour of slow down in that one hour of just you. We focus more on the movement of the body in yoga and the breath is really what’s so important. Something that I say to folks who are runners or cyclists, or they do something a little bit more of a high intensity workout rather than yoga, working on your breath helps you to have endurance for that. It allows you to stay in those workouts longer because you can recover your breath quicker because you’ve learned how to deepen that inhale and exhale so you can stay in that exercise a little bit longer than if you were breathing more shallow. So that’s also another point that I like to bring up to people who tell me that they, you know “I can’t do yoga” or “I don’t like yoga and I don’t want to do it” and I’m like “Do you do others sports or other movement? because this breath alone will help you to feel stronger in that as well.” Laurie: That’s a really good point. Tashya: I think that’s something people don’t realize that, that breathing is such a big part of a yoga practice. When you’re talking to people about yoga and they tell you “Oh, I can’t do yoga. I tried it. I don’t like it.” Laurie: What’s kind of like your number one tip for getting into a consistent yoga practice? Tashya: The different styles are very important for yoga. And I also think a yoga studio and yoga teacher is really important because, um, If you go to a class and you already have those preconceived notions, right, of not wanting to do the yoga or having something about yoga already in your mind and not being for you or you’re not good at it, when you go and you find a teacher that is really welcoming or a teacher that makes yoga accessible, right, that normalizes using props, or normalizes you listening to your body and you figuring out what works for you.Nobody shows up to a class of any kind and knows everything the first day. When I used to teach, I would say to students, like, you all didn’t show up to kindergarten, knowing everything. You all didn’t show up to third grade knowing all the answers, right? That’s why you’re here. The same applies to yoga, right? So when I hear people say, “Oh, I’m not good at yoga”. Oh, neither was I. And you don’t have to be good at yoga. That’s not what it is. And something I like to say often is it’s a practice. So you’re always going to be evolving, you’re always going to be learning something new in yoga if you have an open mind. And I think that’s really one of the most important things, is showing up with an open mind. Taking all of these other misconceptions or myths about yoga and placing them to the side. And just allowing yourself to be open minded on, how could this help me? What could I learn from this? Going in with that beginner’s mind and what is my mind saying to me?What is my body saying? How is my breath helping? Keeping that open mind as you go in and finding a teacher who you vibe with. You are not going to walk into every yoga studio and vibe with every single teacher there. You can walk into a studio and only find one teacher you like. You could walk into a studio and not find any teacher you like. And the style of class also matters. My tip is play around. Go to a few classes, try a few different teachers out, try a few different styles out, and have that open mind, and allow yourself to absorb what is being said, what is being done, what is being taught, and then make your decision from there. Laurie: I’m going to share my, my experience with yoga, which is kind of like what you just described in that, you know, I tried it when it was really popular. I went with friends to a class and I was really intimidated. I am not bendy. I am not flexible. I was just really embarrassed because I couldn’t do. any of the moves. Like you said, you don’t go, you don’t show up on the first day knowing everything or being, being able to do everything. But that’s kind of how I felt that not being able to do any of that made me feel like I shouldn’t be there. So I went to yoga. I wasn’t good at it. So I stopped doing yoga. So when you don’t do yoga, you’re not good at yoga. So, you can’t expect to be good at yoga when you don’t do it. That math doesn’t math, right? So, I love your advice of being willing to approach this with curiosity, like, how could this work for me? What styles appeal to me? What is it that I like about yoga and what is it that I want to get out of it? And then, I think it was probably about five or six years ago, I went with a friend to a beer yoga class. It was just supposed to be fun. I like beer. I like my friend. I’ll go. I’ll hang out on my mat while whatever. It was a really big class in the brewery and It was this teacher said something to me that flipped the switch. We’re doing something I’m over here. Like, I don’t know, maybe it was triangle or it was a warrior pose. And I was sucking at it, hardcore. And she said “listen to your body, do this If it feels good in your body” And I was like “Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, wait a second….“ Because I had gone in with a very black or white “here’s how you do a move. If it looks like this, you’re doing it right. If it doesn’t look like this, you’re doing it wrong.”But she’s telling me, I can modify this for what works with my body. And that was like a light bulb went off over my head. I was like, I can do yoga for my body. I can approach this in a way that, that works for me. And after that, I was hooked. I was like, okay, I can now give myself the space and allow myself to be a beginner and to be, and to learn and to, to grow in a practice. Tashya: So I love that that is your advice to kind of, you know, approach it with a curiosity and a willingness to, to just do what works for your body. I love that you had that experience with that teacher, because that means that teacher was. welcoming, made it accessible, spoke to you as a person rather than, I’m at the front of the room, I know what’s going on, and this is how yoga is supposed to be. That teacher made it about you, and that is what yoga is. The truth is, all of our bodies are built differently. All of our flexibility is different. Our mobility is different. Just our bodies in general, our bone structure, it’s all different. I’m really glad that even though you gave up on it for a little bit, that you still had an open mind and you went to another class and you found a teacher who embodied what yoga actually is. Kindness, compassion, letting people be themselves, and tapping into who they are, rather than being at the front of the room telling you how you are supposed to be. Laurie: Maybe the beer helped, right? It kind of loosened me up. Tashya: Also that, sure. Yeah, it probably did. Laurie: Um, but it was just like, I just felt like I finally had permission to just do yoga for me. Tashya:I have a yoga client who comes every Saturday morning to my virtual class and for the past few years. And when I first, a few years ago before she came to the first class, when we were messaging about it and she said “I can’t do yoga. I’m not good at yoga.” I said to her “well, you don’t have to be good. Just show up.” She now comes every week, if she took a vacation or, you know, during holidays when we don’t have class, she’ll say the following week, you know, I missed it. My body can feel that I didn’t do it. She can feel that she missed a class and she doesn’t want to miss a class. So I just think back to, and I’ve watched her also improve, in how she approaches the poses and how her flexibility has grown and her willingness to evolve her practice has grown and I’ve watched all of that and I just think back to the first initial speaking with her.” I’m not good at it I don’t think I can do it” and then now too It is part of her weekly routine and she she is there and I love that Improvement for her. I just love watching that and one of my other favorite stories that I like to talk about is I started teaching restorative back in January, and at first I said, “no,  I don’t know how to teach restorative. I can’t do that.”  And I also was like, “and that’s too slow. We’re just laying here in restorative. That’s not my bag.” And the more I started teaching it, I’m hearing from the students at the end of class, thank you so much for that. That’s exactly what I needed. I feel so good now I’m going to go home and get some rest. Like, and I could see the change in their posture and in their body and I could see it in their faces that at the end of class that was exactly what they needed. And that also changed my view of restorative and and allowing myself touse restorative as a healing practice. So I was already versed in a flow. I already had my own practice, but even as a yoga teacher, I still had some type of misconception and I had to come in with an open mind and curiosity, as you said before, and so I love seeing that evolving as the more people practice. Can you talk a little bit more about restorative yoga? Just kind of like a description of what it is. Restorative yoga, you’re only going to do about five or six poses throughout the whole class and you’re using props. So you’re using a bolster, blanket, blocks, a strap, whatever it is. And you’re using that as a support. So restorative is rest. You are using these, and you’re holding a pose for six or seven minutes, and you’re just allowing that prop to support you. You’re allowing your mind to really relax. And you talked about something earlier when you were, uh, um, citing those studies. And with restorative, it is really calming your heart. It is calming your nervous system because you are sinking into this. You are deepening your inhale and exhale. There’s no stress being put on your body. There’s no stress being put on your mind. It’s just allowing you that freedom to just slow down to come to a full stop and to just rest. And so then when you’re learning to breathe and you’re learning to find that support, when you go into a stressful situation, you can pull those tools back out. Restorative yoga is it’s just really a time to rest your mind and rest your body, which I think is something we all need in our time right now where we’re constantly on the go and just giving ourselves that time to just really rest. So Tasha, right now you teach a virtual class on Saturday mornings, which is a gentle flow. Laurie: Talk to us a little bit about your virtual classes. Tashya: I had first started that it was going to be for beginners, people who are new to yoga. But then as I started to teach, I evolved my virtual class to be more of a gentle flow rather than just for beginners. We’re not going to be doing any handstands.It’s really just starting your Saturday morning very gently, breathing, doing some gentle movement, waking up your body, right, because we all know by Saturday morning, it’s really hard to get up and it’s really hard to get the day going. And so how can you just. Find that time to ease into the day. Also giving yourself an hour of self care at the end of the week. Maybe Saturday is the start of your week. I don’t know. What is it that you can do that’s just for an hour on a Saturday morning, very gentle to wake yourself up. The reason why I like it being virtual is that it’s very accessible to everyone. You could roll out of bed at 9 45 and click on the Zoom link at 10 a.m. and you’re there. No one’s looking at you. You don’t have to show up in a certain way, wearing certain leggings. It doesn’t matter. You can be in your pajamas in, uh, in sweatpants. Just coming there and just finding that nice way to wake up. You could be anywhere. A lot of my clients who come on Saturdays have not been in New York City. They’ve been in other states. But it’s easy because it’s on Zoom and there’s no stress or pressure to leave your house, to get dressed, to go somewhere when you can just do it right from your own home and feel comfortable. Right now, Saturday morning is the only virtual that I have, but I have been wanting to add some evening classes. Tashya: So an evening virtual flow, you know, gently after work, and then also a restorative. So now I’m kind of putting feelers out to see if there’s some interest in those. As my business expands and so hoping that eventually that those will be some offerings and I can also put in the evening because not everyone can come to a Saturday morning class and sometimes people prefer something in the evening, especially midweek with everything they have going on. Laurie: Very good point. What I’m going to do, Tasha, and you’re going to be giving our listeners a coupon code for a free class so they can join you, try it out, see how they like it. I’m also going to be putting all of your information, like your website and your social links in the show notes so that our listeners can get in touch with you and follow you. Laurie: Thank you so much for being with us today. Tashya: I always enjoy talking to you and happy to come on again and talk about lots more wellness topics. Check out Tashya’s other episode on the RWR Podcast

CW: as the title implies, this episode describes a guest’s lifelong struggle with eating disorders   Is Recovery from Eating Disorders Using Intuitive Eating Possible? In this episode I chat with Debbie Lesko, an anti-diet and eating disorder awareness activist, who shares her personal journey of recovery from an eating disorder and how she became an advocate for body positivity and intuitive eating. She emphasizes the importance of rejecting diet culture and the harmful effects of intentional weight loss. Debbie also discusses the benefits of embracing an anti-diet mindset, such as freedom from food restrictions, improved self-esteem, and a healthier relationship with your body. She provides practical tips for transitioning away from dieting, including changing language around food, cleaning up social media feeds, and finding joyful movement. What’s in the episode:Is Recovery from Eating Disorders Using Intuitive Eating Possible?Key Takeaways:Quotes:Resources Mentioned: Need help?Finding Recovery: A Personal JourneyThe Anti-Diet Movement: Rejecting Diet CultureThe Power of Community and SupportThe Benefits of Ditching the Diet MindsetLooking ahead…Frequently Asked Questions About Recovery, Anti-Diet Living & Letting Go of Diet Culture1. Is recovery from an eating disorder possible at any age?2. What does it mean to be “anti-diet”?3. Isn’t weight loss still a valid health goal?4. What are the biggest mindset shifts when leaving diet culture?5. How do I explain my anti-diet stance to others without feeling awkward?6. What’s a good place to start if I’m just beginning to unlearn diet culture?7. Is Debbie a therapist or licensed professional?Episode Transcript Key Takeaways: Reject diet culture and the labeling of food as “good” or “bad.” Clean up your social media by unfollowing accounts that promote dieting or weight loss. Get rid of clothes that don’t fit and buy clothes that make you feel comfortable and confident in your current body. Quotes: “Anti-diet means rejecting the idea that a diet is going to cure your self-esteem, your body image, your health.” “All food has nutritional value, no matter what it is, and your body knows what to do with it.” “Give up the fight for making your body a shape that you think is acceptable.” Resources Mentioned: National Eating Disorder Association Health at Every Size (Amazon Affiiate link) Intuitive Eating (Amazon Affiliate Link) Need help? Looking to speak with someone about eating disorders concerns for yourself or a loved one? ANAD Helpline: 1 (888) 375-7767    Monday-Friday, 9am-9pm CT National Alliance for Eating Disorders Helpline: 1 (866) 662-1235     Monday-Friday, 9am-7pm ET About Debbie:  Debbie Lesko is a 67-year-old grandmother and an eating disorder awareness and anti-diet fat liberation activist. She has been on a journey of recovery from her own eating disorder since she was eight years old. Debbie is the host of the “Diets Don’t Work” Facebook page, which is a community that supports and educates people looking to ditch the diet mindset and approach health without a harmful focus on weight. Connect with DebbieDiets Don’t Work Facebook pageDiets Don’t Work Facebook groupDebbie’s Website: Diets-dont-work.net In a world obsessed with weight loss and diet culture, it can be challenging to find a path to true health and well-being. But there is hope. Debbie Lesko, an anti-diet activist and eating disorder awareness advocate, is on a mission to help others break free from the harmful cycle of dieting and embrace a new way of approaching health. In our conversation, Debbie shares her personal journey to recovery and offers valuable insights into the benefits of ditching the diet mindset. Finding Recovery: A Personal Journey Debbie’s story is one of resilience and determination. From a young age, she was subjected to the harmful messages of diet culture, constantly being told that she needed to lose weight to be accepted and valued. This led to a lifelong battle with an eating disorder, with multiple hospitalizations and treatment centers along the way. But it wasn’t until 2017, when her job threatened her employment if she didn’t seek treatment, that Debbie realized she needed to make a change. “I can’t leave my granddaughter,” Debbie recalls. “I can’t die. That would just hurt tremendously.” This realization became the turning point in her recovery journey. She sought treatment at Rosewood Eating Disorder Centers and immersed herself in various modalities, including intuitive eating and the Health at Every Size (HAES) approach. Through this process, Debbie discovered a new way of approaching food, movement, and self-acceptance. The Anti-Diet Movement: Rejecting Diet Culture Being anti-diet means rejecting the harmful messages of diet culture and embracing a new approach to health and well-being. It means letting go of the idea that weight loss is the key to happiness and self-worth. As Debbie explains, “Anti-diet does not mean anti-health. It’s pro-health.” It’s about focusing on nourishing your body and finding joy in movement, rather than obsessing over numbers on a scale or restrictive eating patterns. One of the biggest pitfalls people face when trying to leave the diet mindset behind is the language they use around food. Debbie emphasizes the importance of eliminating labels like “good” or “bad” when it comes to food. “All food has nutritional value,” she says. “Your body knows what to do with it.” By reframing our thoughts and language around food, we can begin to develop a healthier relationship with eating and nourishing our bodies. The Power of Community and Support Recovering from an eating disorder and embracing an anti-diet mindset can be challenging, but Debbie emphasizes the importance of finding a supportive community. Through her Facebook page, “Diets Don’t Work,” Debbie curates a collection of posts and resources that promote body positivity, intuitive eating, and eating disorder awareness. The page has grown into a thriving community of over 4,500 members who share their experiences, ask questions, and support one another on their journeys to recovery. Debbie also highlights the importance of cleaning up our social media feeds and surrounding ourselves with accounts that promote body positivity and reject diet culture. By curating our online spaces, we can create a more positive and supportive environment that aligns with our values and goals. The Benefits of Ditching the Diet Mindset So, what are the benefits of embracing an anti-diet mindset and rejecting the harmful messages of diet culture?Debbie shares three key benefits: Freedom: By letting go of restrictive eating patterns and the obsession with weight loss, we can experience a newfound sense of freedom. No longer bound by the numbers on a scale or the rules of a diet, we can eat what we want when we want it, without guilt or shame. Increased Brain Space: When we’re constantly focused on diets and weight loss, our minds become consumed by numbers and restrictions. By embracing an anti-diet mindset, we free up valuable brain space to focus on more important things, like spending time with loved ones, pursuing hobbies, and engaging in activities that bring us joy. Improved Self-Esteem: Diet culture often leads to a negative body image and a constant battle with our own self-worth. By rejecting the idea that our bodies need to conform to a certain standard, we can develop a healthier and more positive relationship with ourselves. Respecting our bodies for what they are and what they can do, rather than how they look, can lead to a significant boost in self-esteem and overall well-being. Looking ahead… Ditching the diet mindset and embracing an anti-diet approach to health and well-being is a journey that requires commitment and self-compassion. But as Debbie’s story demonstrates, it is possible to find recovery and live a life free from the harmful cycle of dieting. By rejecting diet culture, reframing our thoughts and language around food, and surrounding ourselves with a supportive community, we can begin to embrace a new way of approaching health that focuses on nourishment, self-acceptance, and joy. As the anti-diet movement continues to gain momentum, it is important that we challenge the harmful messages of diet culture and promote a more inclusive and compassionate approach to health. By sharing our stories, supporting one another, and advocating for change, we can create a world where everyone can embrace their bodies and live their lives to the fullest, free from the constraints of diet culture. Let’s support Debbie in her mission to spread awareness about eating disorders, promote body positivity, and empower others to embrace an anti-diet mindset. Together, we can create a future where health is not defined by weight, but by the joy, nourishment, and self-acceptance that comes from living a life free from diet culture. Frequently Asked Questions About Recovery, Anti-Diet Living & Letting Go of Diet Culture 1. Is recovery from an eating disorder possible at any age? Yes. As Debbie shares in this episode, she found recovery at 63 years old—after decades of struggle and multiple treatment centers. Recovery is not limited by age. It’s never too late to heal your relationship with food, your body, or yourself. 2. What does it mean to be “anti-diet”? Being anti-diet means rejecting restrictive eating, body shame, and weight-focused health messages. It’s not anti-health—it’s pro-health, pro-body autonomy, and pro-informed choice. It also means refusing to moralize food or tie your worth to your size. 3. Isn’t weight loss still a valid health goal? Weight loss is a personal choice, but it shouldn’t be the default measure of health. Anti-diet living focuses on behaviors (like movement, nourishment, sleep, and mental health) rather than manipulating weight, which is largely out of our control. Debbie emphasizes informed choice—and understanding that weight loss diets statistically fail long term. 4. What are the biggest mindset shifts when leaving diet culture? According to Debbie: Ditch the scale and weight tracking apps Stop labeling food as good or bad Unfollow diet and weight-loss content on social media Buy clothes for your today body Find joyful movement—not punishment disguised as fitness 5. How do I explain my anti-diet stance to others without feeling awkward? It’s okay to set boundaries. A simple, “I’m not discussing diets or body size anymore—let’s talk about something else,” is enough. Debbie reminds us that it’s not your job to justify your healing. It’s your right to protect it. 6. What’s a good place to start if I’m just beginning to unlearn diet culture? A great place to start is by educating yourself with trusted anti-diet resources. We recommend exploring the Top 12 Anti-Diet Book Club Picks—a curated list to help you understand the science, the history, and the liberation of leaving diet culture behind. 7. Is Debbie a therapist or licensed professional? No. Debbie is a recovered peer, advocate, and anti-diet community leader. Her work is not a substitute for medical or mental health treatment, but her lived experience and curated resources offer powerful peer support. If you need clinical help, she may be able to point you toward qualified professionals who align with anti-diet values. Episode Transcript I just want people to know that recovery is possible. I was 63 years old when I found recovery. I had psychiatrists tell me I was hopeless. I had therapists say, I can’t treat you anymore because you’re just so determined to fight us on everything. And here I am, I’m trying to help others now because I have found a better way. And it is anti-diet, health and exercise, intuitive eating. It does work. You just have to let it, and recovery is possible. It happens. I’m Laurie Mallon, and this is the Results Without Restriction podcast. The show where results have nothing to do with weight and everything to do with setting and reaching health and fitness goals that focus on what we’re achieving and not what we’re losing. We’ll talk about deprogramming from diet culture and get expert advice on reclaiming your relationship with food and movement. Join me on this journey to get results without restriction. Today, I’m here with Debbie Lusko, who is what I call an anti-diet activist and a superhero. And she’s the host of Diets Don’t Work, which is a large Facebook community that supports and educates people who are looking to ditch the diet mindset and approach health without a harmful focus on weight. Welcome, Debbie. Thank you. Thanks for having me here. I’m pretty pumped to talk to you because this is a departure from our normal episodes. Normally, we are talking with coaches, nutritionists, trainers who are in the field helping clients, whereas you are an activist. Do you consider yourself an anti-diet activist? What do you call yourself? Eating disorder awareness and anti-diet, fat liberation activist. I really wanna promote eating disorder awareness because it, of course, affected me personally, and that’s kinda what I wanna get out there. I’m gonna call you an anti-diet and eating disorder awareness superhero. Okay, this is my passion. I wanna get the word out, and I go through Instagram and Facebook, and I pull the best of the best and share those posts. I want one place where I can come and see all the various encouragements, anything like that in one place. And that is why I have my page. But there’s no income for me. It is strictly a labor of love. I say it in my bio. If I can reach one person, then it’s all worth it. If I can stop one person from running down the track of an eating disorder, then that’s what I’m here for. You curate a lot of valuable posts from other coaches, dieticians, people in the anti-diet and health at every size to share this information with your audience. You’re having a significant impact without even having a certification or anything like that, but you’re really out there sharing this message about being anti-diet and anti-intentional weight loss and how harmful all this diet culture messaging is and how pervasive it is. I like to get the backstory. So you can tell me how we got to this point where you became the anti-diet superhero that you are today. Thanks, yes, and I appreciate the name you’re calling me. That’s a fun name to have. That story is that I am a 67-year-old grandmother and I have had an eating disorder since I was probably about eight. My parents, my dad in particular, was very concerned about what other people saw and he wanted his children to look perfect. And so I was told I was fat and I had to lose weight from a very young age. I can remember being restricted food when I was four years of age. But that persisted and finally at about 17, I said, fine, you know, fine. You want me thin? I’m gonna be thin. And I did and I lost a lot of weight pretty quickly. Of course, was hospitalized within six weeks of dropping a lot of weight. And I told my parents that I had a mental disorder. And this is back in the early 1970s that we’re talking about. And it’s even before Karen Carpenter or any of the names that had eating disorder. This is before that. So they didn’t really know as much in the 70s. They probably had it in at some kind of DSM book at that point for anorexia, but they didn’t really know what to do with it. So they just told my parents to get me counseling and we did. In fact, I mean, they set me up with the church pastor, said, here help her. And he did for a little bit and he was very good, but I was determined to make my father proud of me and continue on losing weight, which I did. I was always on a diet from the time from eight years of age till four years ago, I’ve always been on a diet. I was determined to stay that way. So I’ve been in numerous treatment centers over the years and the most recent one was back in 2017 here in Arizona. I went to Rosewood Eating Disorder Centers, which I can highly recommend. And I don’t promote very many centers, but they’re where I found recovery. During the course of all the treatment centers, I died a couple times. I remember going to one where I died in the elevator going up to the center and a doctor was with me at the time and he had to do CPR to get me back. And I fought them on it because I said, you should have let me die because I don’t want to be fat. I don’t want to be fat. You’re going to make me fat. And I was very belligerent with the team at that center and said, no, I’m not eating. And I tried and they put on some weight on me and I went back home and I immediately turned around and did the same thing all over again. And then in 2017, I got to a point where my job was kind of saying, you can’t go on like this. I was abusing drugs, laxatives, not eating. My job figured it out and said, you have to get treatment. If you don’t, you don’t have a job. And even then I was still on probation because my job slipped. I was in the bathroom all the time. I was not eating. I had no comprehension for what I was doing. As an accountant, you kind of need to know what you’re doing. So I went to Rosewood and I spent almost a year and a half with them in all of their various modalities from inpatient to a residential to PHP to outpatient. And I did all the modalities and I kept saying to them, no, I’m not, no, I’ve put too much weight on. You cannot make me put on any more weight. And I did, I put on a lot of weight in recovery. I got to a point where they handed me the book Health at Every Size. And I got through the first chapter and I handed it back to my dietician saying, nope, nope, nope, can’t do this. This is out of the question. There’s no way I want to do this. I can’t be happy in a fat bond. Proceeded to continue into treatment. And then in 2019, I found Intuitive Eating. I read the book, was with a dietician now with a different dietician who was promoting it. And I went, okay, I can do this. And we talked about body image and I went back to Health at Every Size and I went, okay. And by this point I had put on twice what I started out. I mean, I had put on the full amount of my body weight. And so I was very upset with my weight, but in 2019, it was January even, January of 2019. And all of this stuff on social media was bombarding me, get on this diet, start this gym, start this, start that, the various new year’s resolutions. And I’m like, I’ve got to do something to fight that. I have to figure this out. Cause I can’t go back to dieting. Cause if I do, I will die. And I had a beautiful granddaughter at that point. She was four years old and I can’t leave her. I mean, I moved from Pittsburgh to Phoenix because of my eating disorder, but I stayed here because my family was here. And I couldn’t be without my granddaughter. I thought, nope, I can’t do that. I can’t die. That would just hurt tremendously. I was very focused on finding reasons why not to go on a diet. And at that point, diet, some work was born. I did it as a selfish venture. I had to find the reasons why diets don’t work. Why my body was okay, just as it is as a fat body. And I had to find those reasons. And all of these posts now talking about anti-diet and health at every size and fat activism and eating disorder awareness. I thought it all out and I started reposting them. And by April of 2019, I had my own page with diets don’t work and it has grown ever since. And I still do the same thing. It is just as much a part of my recovery as it is for everybody else. It keeps me focused on what I’m doing, what I need to think about, and knowing that I can help others is an added benefit. It keeps me going, but I’m also helping others. Debbie, I’m not gonna lie, that was a little bit emotional. The part about what would save your life right now, because you got to a point where being in a smaller body was worth it to you. It was life in a fat body or death, and you were making a choice. And then you finally had that, this is something I need to live for. Like this is the thing that I need to focus on. What I’m doing is not working. It is going to kill me and I cannot keep doing this. So that was kind of like your turning point. I had to find something to keep me going and the page has definitely kept me going. And I like that because it’s almost like it’s therapeutic. It’s keeping your mind on the right things. You’re not just helping yourself now, you’re helping others. Right, exactly. And I’m not saying that it’s been easy all along. The past four years have been full of ups and downs and we had COVID in there and that kind of threw a wrinkle in things. But for the most part, I have stayed on top of it. And I’ve got a wonderful support group. I’ve got my dieticians who are a blessing to me and we have a support group that I am part of. And if I didn’t have them as well as the page, there probably wouldn’t be a page. I’ve got a therapist now or again, and she’s helping me process some of the things that happened to me as a child that still hold on to me. It’s been four years of ups and downs, but I’m on top. I’m on top of it now. I can honestly say I’m recovered. Sure, there’s little glitches that come in every so often, but I am not gonna say I am in recovery because I honestly believe that I have recovered. But God’s grace, I have recovered. Let’s talk real quick about what it means to be anti-diet because let’s be honest, the term anti-diet has become a catchphrase, right? It’s become popularized. It’s been co-opted by the intentional weight loss brigade, because everybody knows diets don’t work. So we can’t talk about diets, but we still wanna sell the magic of weight loss. It’s gonna solve all your problems and make your life better. We still wanna make that promise, but without that dirty D word, right? So being anti-diet, what does that mean? Anti-diet means rejecting all the diet culture, rejecting the idea that a diet is going to cure your self-esteem, your body image, your health, any of that kind of stuff. Anti-diet does not mean anti-health. It’s pro-health, as a matter of fact, diet. And I use that word, but it really encompasses restrictions for the purpose of changing your body, your body size, your body weight. That diet is restricting any kind of food group, any kind of calorie restriction. And even though people say we’re not going to count calories or we’re not gonna track food, we’re gonna change you so that you eat just good food, end quote, there is no such thing. So it’s rejecting the diet mentality of good foods, bad foods. It’s rejecting the idea that you have to earn your food. It’s rejecting that you can only look a certain way and you have to be this way to be a worthy person. Everybody’s worthy, no matter what their size, what their color, what their shape, no matter what they are worthy, whether they can move, whether they can’t move, whether they’re disabled or not. It’s all part of that anti-diet. Yeah, I do get approached by health coaches who want to be on the podcast, who are quote, unquote anti-diet. But when I dig a little further, they’re using weight loss as an outcome, as a metric, but they’re using these Jedi mind tricks to kind of sell you on the same harmful behaviors without the title. So we’re still restricting things. We’re still using the terms good, bad, clean, dirty. We’re only eating these types of foods. Like we’re still vilifying sugar. We’re still vilifying carbs. We’re still making it out to be there’s a right way and a wrong way, but we’re not calling it that. So I always have to dig and I have to say, okay, you’re saying you’re anti-diet, but are you actually still peddling weight loss, which is really the harmful silent partner in all of this? Yes, absolutely. And that is the biggest problem with so many of the diet programs that are out there. New weight watchers and Jenny Craig, which has coming back again. And they all want to try and tell you, you can eat whatever you want as long as it stays within this point value or you can eat whatever you want as long as you count it as part of your daily intake. They’re still tracking everything that you eat. Doesn’t matter. They have to get you to reduced calories that you’re taking in if they’re going to promise weight loss. And the terrible thing about it is, no matter how many calories you reduce, you are harming your body. You are setting your body up for organ failure, for dizziness. There is a whole list of things that happens when you start restricting calories. No matter what the reason is, no matter how you go about intentionally losing weight, it’s not going to stay that way. 95 to 98% fail. No matter whatever you want to call it, lifestyle change won’t work. That is absolutely true. Statistically, we have studies. We have so much science behind the inefficacy of intentional weight loss through these needs. The sad things to me are that, one, coaches and trainers are still being taught to use this as a metric, to use this as a selling point, to use this in marketing, to use this as a basis for health. To help their clients get healthy, it has to be around reducing their body size, which is, it’s unfortunate. Medical personnel. Yes, exactly. Doctors, they’re still all using BMI, which is bullshit. They’re still using all of this kind of weight-related information, which does not have any relevance to behaviors or actual health outcomes like your A1C, your blood pressure, your VO2 max. Like any of these actual indicators of health have very, very little to do with the size of your body. For me personally, as a former health coach and personal trainer, I went through these trainings and they would teach you, here’s how many calories they should be eating. Here’s what their healthy, quote unquote, gonna use your quotes, the healthy body weight. And it’s like, this is so gross. Let’s stop teaching this to the people who are then, as experts, pushing this information on the general public. I love that there are people like us who are just like, no, we’re not doing this. And there’s signs to back us up. It’s not like we’re just making this up because we feel good about it. We just wanna be fat, leave us alone. We’re gonna make up some studies like this, right. That’s what people think. They just want us to be lazy. I’m all for making sure that people have all the proper information as to why diets don’t work or why lifestyle changes don’t work. Whatever you wanna call it, any kind of restriction. Make an informed choice. Right, and I will point out that, first and foremost, everyone has body autonomy. So whatever you choose to do with your body is your business, right. You absolutely can make that choice for yourself, but make an informed choice. Make sure you’re actually getting factual information about the choices that you do make. Right, that’s what I want people to know is I wanna give you the information and make it an informed choice. When you see people who are kind of new to the anti-diet space, they’ve had that lifetime of chronic restriction or weight obsession, things like that. They’re like, I’m done with this. I want to move into intuitive eating or health at every size, anti-diet movement, but something’s tripping me up. What are the pitfalls that people tend to fall into when they are leaving the diet mindset and finding a new way to do things? I think one of the big things is calling food bad or dirty or unhealthy or treats or junk food. All food has nutritional value no matter what it is. And your body knows what to do with it. So one of the biggest thing is I want them to eliminate any classification of food, whether bad, whether good, whether dirty, whether clean, whatever you wanna call it, it’s just food. Some foods have more nutritional value than others do, but it doesn’t make them any better than something else. They demonize sugar, they demonize carbs, they demonize fast food, pizza, hamburgers, whatever it is, it’s all just food, period. You’re gonna get energy from whatever you eat and that’s what it turns into, it turns into glucose. One of the biggest mistakes is just calling it bad and I shouldn’t be eating this, it’s naughty. I’m not being a good person if I eat this and I hear it on radio, I hear it at church, I hear it in the grocery store, in the hairdressers. I was a bad girl, I ate ice cream for dinner last night. No, it doesn’t make you bad. Your worth is not determined on what you eat. That is the number one thing, is get rid of the labels on food. Two, clean up your social media. Find the anti-diet accounts, get rid of any of the weight loss, keto, get rid of those accounts. Follow me, I have a ton of people that you can follow every single day. You can find somebody new on my stage. Clean up your social media. The next time would be get rid of the clothes that don’t fit. Find the clothes that are comfortable. I want you to feel nice in whatever you’re wearing. Get rid of that idea that thin is beautiful and fat is ugly and get clothes that fit. Get clothes that fit. Oh, and exercise. Find the joyful movement. Find something you’d like to do. If it’s a chore, don’t do it. If you hate running, don’t do it. Find something else. Go dance, go play tennis, go play anything that you like to do. I have rheumatoid arthritis that has developed over the years here. And I used to be a runner. I used to run marathons and used to run all the time. I can no longer do that. I loved running. I loved running. I still wish I could go running, but I can’t. I have found swimming. I have a pool in my backyard. I go swimming every day. And that is my movement. That is my exercise. And it satisfies the movement in me. And I still can do it. Or dancing or chasing down your kids or running around the house, cleaning and laundry and all that. Those are all movements. You’re getting benefit from any of that kind of stuff. I love that you pointed these out because a lot of the things that kind of keep people stuck when they’re trying to move out of that diet mindset, there are things that they don’t realize that they’ve incorporated into their thoughts and patterns that kind of keep them stuck. So can I recap real quick? So you said one, examine their language that you’re using around food, get rid of the vilifying certain foods, the clean eating, dirty, whatever. Food is food. Start looking at all food as energy. And yes, some foods have different nutritional values. Some have more fiber. Some have this, but it’s quantified. It’s not qualified, right? There’s nutrition and everything. Eat what you enjoy and lose the language that kind of keeps you in that diet mindset. So the second thing you said was get rid of the social media accounts that you’re following that keep you stuck in that. Obsessing about body size and what you’re eating and anything with a before and after picture, gone. I’m showing you my six pack, that kind of vibe, gone. And I love your feed so much because I do find great accounts follow from it. And that’s kind of how I found you. And I was like, wow, this is like a goldmine of really great accounts to connect with. I can say now my feed is just full of anti-diet, all that every size, body positive, larger bodies being active and just loving life. And I’m just, I’m thrilled. It’s made a huge difference in my social media experience. The third thing you said was clean out the closet and get rid of the clothes that you’re hanging on to, your skinny jeans. Right. I used to have a pair of jeans I called my judgment jeans. And my dietician of course went, no, you need to get rid of them because I would put them on to determine whether or not I’ve put on any weight or have I lost weight. They were judgment jeans, got rid of them, had to get rid of them. And buy clothes for your today body. And find things that you feel good in as you are right now because confidence and positive self-image has nothing to actually do with your physical body. It’s all up here. And if you’re constantly putting on clothes that used to fit, but don’t, like that’s just gonna keep you stuck in that mentality. So I love that you mentioned that. And then the other thing you said, having that moral kind of like connection with the food, like food is good or bad. It’s neither. And you’re neither good or bad for eating it. If you eat a donut, you’re not bad. If you eat a donut and then you roll a bank, yes, you’re bad. Yes, yes. The donut alone is not what does it. So we could be here all day talking about the benefits of ditching the diet culture and moving into a new head space of loving your body as it is being respectful of it and caring for it and finding ways to feed it and move it that you enjoy. So what would you say are like the top three benefits of ditching diet culture? You’re going to find that you actually have freedom, which is food. You can eat what you want, when you want it. You’re no longer focused on the numbers of the food or exercise. And here you are thinking about numbers all the time. And all of a sudden, they’re gone. I can go out to dinner with people. I can go out to dinner with friends. I don’t have to worry about whether or not they’ve got something I can eat or not eat or is this going to fit into my plan today? You’re not thinking about numbers. You’ve got more brain space. I have more brain space to go play with my granddaughter. And that may sound very elusive, but you really will find you’ve got more things that you can think about. You have more time. I have more friends, more availability for friends, and I can talk to them without worrying about saying something wrong as far as diets are concerned, more self-esteem. You’re not fighting with your body anymore, respecting your body for what it does and how it is. That act of constantly changing your body definitely destroys self-esteem because it never does what you think it should do. And when you give that up, you can be the person that you’re meant to be and you don’t have to fight with it anymore. You give up the fight. I’m not saying give up the fight for health. I’m saying give up the fight for making it a shape that you think is acceptable. So freedom. Essentially, what I’m hearing is you get a lot of freedom in your head, in your calendar, and the way you feel about your body is just you’re not confined anymore to routines or thought patterns or restaurants or activities, how you feel about your body because you’re told to feel that way about your body. Right, right. That’s very freeing. It was amazing to me when I went through this and pretty, it was very gradual, but when you realize how much time you used to waste trying to control something that inevitably was never gonna change, but just obsessing about how much, when, where. I get a little angry when I think about how much time I did waste on all that, but we’re here now. So, but yes, it’s very freeing to finally let all of that go. So Debbie, you have a Facebook page, Diets Don’t Work, and you have a group. You have a private group that people can join. Is a private group. You have to get to it by going to the Diets Don’t Work page. You can get to it through there. You can always message me through the page and I will get you into the group. It is a private group where people post questions. The group has almost 4,500 members in it right now. So you get quite an assortment of answers. The group is moderated heavily. So you’re not gonna get a diet answer. You’re not gonna get, oh well, just tell them to quit eating sugar. That won’t happen in the group, I guarantee you. It is a anti-diet, non-intentional weight loss group. I’ll put the link in the show notes and if anybody wants to join. Just to reiterate though, you’re not a therapist. You’re not a counselor. You’re not a certified coach or anything like that. You’re not giving medical advice. You’re not, this is more of a peer support group for other people who have been in this space. And when you come in to ask questions or get support, keep that in mind that if you do need a referral for a therapist or something like that, Debbie probably has resources to share, but just keep in mind this is a peer group and there will be no sneaky like weight loss answer, diet talk that sneaks in so that this is a safe place to talk about things in the anti-diet world. Exactly. Perfect. And you have a website. Website, diets-don’t-work.net. I will put a link to your website in the show notes as well and they can visit you there. They can sign up for your newsletter. I’m so thankful for you, Debbie, because I know that it’s hard. It’s hard to live with this every day and you are recovered, but it’s still something you’re doing every day to stay there. It’s not like a switch was flipped and now I don’t have to work on this anymore enough to think about it after care. You’re in this every day reminding yourself, these are the messages I need to hear. These are the people I need to be surrounded by. These are the things I need to continue to reinforce. That’s right. Absolutely. And that’s exactly why I do what I do. Please just know that you’re helping so many people every day and that the work that you do is very, very important and it’s so impactful. I appreciate that. I really do. Debbie, let’s wrap up. What I like to do at the end of every episode is have my guests give me their top three tips for whatever their area of expertise is. Yours is recovering from eating disorder and ditching the diet mindset. Can you give us your top three tips for doing that? One, get rid of the scale. Two, change your language around food, around your body. Three, get rid of all your apps that monitor your weight, monitor your food, monitor exercise. Get rid of them. You’re gonna do it with joyful movements. You’re gonna do it with intuitive eating. You’re gonna do it with better mindset. One thing that we did not even touch on and then maybe this would be a second episode is, because you actually did mention a little bit about how people wanna talk about your diet and people love to talk about why. Why is this interesting? I don’t know. But what they eat, what they, you know, how they’re, what they’re doing to their body. But finding friends who share this approach to health and letting people in your life know, listen, this isn’t a conversation topic I engage in anymore. Depending on how comfortable you are with being straightforward about you’re not discussing diets anymore. You’re not talking about body size. We’re not talking about weight loss. Making sure that the people around you know, listen, I’m, this is no longer an important thing to me. It’s actually very harmful. I’d like to talk about something else. And maybe just having in your back pocket, like topic changers or like ways that you can say, listen, you know what? I don’t really wanna talk about that. Can we talk about something else?

 Realistic & holistic wellness with Megan Caldwell, personal trainer and health coach, who helps busy moms prioritize self-care,  move past overwhelm and exhaustion to find strength and confidence in both mind and body. What’s Ahead…In this EpisodeListen to the EpisodeConnect with MeganRead the Episode Transcript In this Episode Megan shares her journey of transitioning from a stay-at-home mom to an entrepreneur, running a fitness franchise for moms. Despite the success she found, she was burnt out, putting her own wellness on the back burner. Recognizing the importance of holistic wellness – meaning it’s more than just fitness – she now focuses on five pillars of health: movement, hydration, nutrition, sleep, and stress management, because taking care of yourself, creating habits, and finding systems that work with you and the season of life that you’re in are critical to maintaining your physical, mental, and emotional health. Listen to the Episode Connect with Megan Instagram Facebook Click here to book a call with Megan  Megan’s Free gift: The Weekly Wellness Tracker Megan’s website: www.megancaldwellpdx.com Read the Episode Transcript Welcome everyone. I am here with Megan Caldwell. She is a personal trainer and a health coach who helps busy moms prioritize their own self care and find ways to truly feel like their best selves and every aspect of their lives. 00:46 As a wellness and empowerment coach, she helps her clients move past overwhelm and exhaustion to help them find strength and confidence in both mind and body. 00:55 Welcome Megan. Good morning. How are you? Okay, Megan. Let’s dig in here. What I want to do is start with your best story. 01:02 Tell me how we got to this point. Yeah, I find it so interesting. When we take a look at our own stories, each of us have our own stories. 01:09 I started in my professional career in education. So as a high school special education and math teacher, I was also a basketball coach. 01:16 Very engulfed in my career and loving it and had my first kid. And as those of us that are moms know, perspective change priorities change and my own health was suffering as I was trying to balance motherhood with balance and balancing career. 01:31 Brand new mom. I had actually stepped into a new role working at a university coaching and teaching teachers. And I got to a point where for the first time I really felt my own mental health suffer. I was having anxiety and panic attacks. And I got to a point where I said, I can’t do this anymore. So my husband and I picked up camp. 01:48 We were in Los Angeles and we moved up here to just outside Portland, Oregon, which is where we had family. And I said, I just want to be a stay at home. Just want to stay at home. I just want to raise this baby. 01:57 I just want to be a stay at home. I eat the hardest job in the entire world because I learned that I would not be my best self in that full time stay at home. 02:07 So four months after moving up here, I had the opportunity to own and operated a fitness franchise for moms called fit for mom. 02:14 And I took that on and I dove in and it was awesome. I could bring my kids to work. I ran the business out the whole my groove from a small thing into this great big entity here in Portland where at one point I had a team of 14. 02:25 I was nationally recognized by the organization. All these great things. And two more babies into that space while I was in that role. 02:33 This entrepreneurship and it was such an amazing season of my life. And from the outside, it looks like I had everything put together. 02:41 I had three healthy kids. I had a marriage. I had, you know, this really successful business and underneath the surface. 02:49 I was just pedaling constantly. I was putting my own wellness on the back burner again. And I hit burnout for the second time in my first two careers. 02:59 And I had women in the and asked me weekly, Megan, I don’t know how you do it. You’ve got it all put together. 03:04 And here I am leading these other moms and women and I’m saying, oh, yeah, I know it’s hard, but like I’m doing it and I’m leading. 03:11 And so it didn’t take me till I was about five years ago where again, I hit a low and I recognize this is not where I want to be. 03:17 I don’t want to be putting my kids on iPad so I can continue to serve others. I don’t want to be disregarding my marriage. 03:25 I want to feel good. And what does that even mean. So I got to the point where I’m I didn’t, I didn’t even know what I needed. 03:33 But what I learned is I needed to prioritize my own wellbeing first. I started seeing a therapist. But when I started taking care of my own sleep, my own fitness, my nutrition stress management boundary setting. 03:46 Time management, all these different pieces. When I started taking care of this, I was able to start to shift to see what does Megan need because I know I can be successful, but how can I be successful and also to care of myself? 03:57 Because I truly believe that when we as women take care of ourselves first, then we can serve better. Where this led to is I ended up selling my fitness franchise. 04:07 I recognized in my own journey and the work I was doing in the fitness space that wellness is more than just fitness. 04:12 So I truly believed when I was in the fitness franchise, that if women just came to my classes, like all the problems would be solved. 04:18 Everything would be good. You’re going to hit your goals and again through my own journey and just the work that I’ve done with women. 04:23 It is more than just fitness. It’s taking a look at our own holistic being, identifying what are our needs, what are our desires and then setting up sustainable habits to keep us feeling the way that we want to feel. 04:35 So a lot of it got me to this point on my own journey, again being in the fitness space and recognizing that movement is a piece of the puzzle. 04:45 But what else is needed here. So I now kind of preach five pillars of health. So movement and fitness is one piece of it. 04:53 Hydration kind of has its standalone pillar because it’s got such benefits and it’s one of those domino habits I call where when we have hydration in place. 05:01 And oftentimes other things on the place. Nutrition we’re taking a look at how we fuel our bodies rather than to pry our bodies. 05:07 We look at sleep. And then the biggest piece of the work I do in my coaching work across the board I’d say is stress awareness and stress management figuring out how we move through obstacles because we could have the best plan in place for fitness and nutrition. 05:20 And again, when your kid gets sick. When the life happens when you move it could all go out the window. 05:27 All of the things that you mentioned fitness, nutrition, hydration, stress management boundaries all those things. I love these because these when I was a coach this was these were all part of my program called results without restriction which was not about looking at what we can take away and what 05:44 We can force ourselves to do. But what are we adding what are we what are the things that are outside the gym or outside the kitchen that impact health and wellness. 05:54 So I love that that is is part of your program as well. I love that you include boundaries and time management because a lot of people do not recognize how those two things can impact your physical mental emotional health and that you are protecting your resources you are protecting your energy. 06:15 You are protecting your piece when you have boundaries and it is a critical piece of self care. So I love that you have incorporated those hydration. 06:26 I am the worst at drinking water. My husband is always like never I have some kind of physical. Oh, I have a headache. 06:31 Well, I feel tired of this. How much water have you been drinking? Finally bought a big like half gallon joke and I’m like, okay, this is happening. 06:39 This is what I’m going to do. And I started drinking two of those a day and I was like, is this what people feel like every day? 06:46 It was such a difference. Tell me more like how did you feel like a brand new person? My husband was like, I do not even want to hear it. 06:53 I do not want to hear it because I have been. He was the prepping the few for years. He has been saying it for like a decade and I’m finally like telling like I’m coming back to him. 07:03 Like it’s brand new information. I’m like, did you know that if I drink all this water and when they I feel so much better? 07:08 My stomach felt good. I don’t know how else to do more headaches every day from dehydration. Because one of those things that people often like hear hydration and they just think it’s so basic. 07:19 Like what is that actually going to do? What our body is made up of like 90% water or something, right? 07:24 It’s like something crazy like that. And so this is exactly like the aha that and it doesn’t always just take a week or two for women to figure out how to make it work. 07:33 I do find the vessel, so the water bottle and having it accessible can be like one of the easiest ways to help consume more water. 07:42 But that’s exactly what I work with with my clients is figuring out how to certain actions, especially when we get into hydration and nutrition is how to certain things actually make you feel, right? 07:52 Because you could be told that like X number of ounces of water is what you need per day. I know for a fact I need close to 100 ounces. 07:59 If I go less than that, I just feel parched and that is just me building this habit over time. I have other women who are trying to build up from 16 ounces a day to 24 ounces a day, right? 08:10 And just figuring out what is that number that you and your body needs first, what you’re told you should be doing. 08:16 Well, if the other part of it that was key for me was having a big container that I didn’t have to keep refilling because if I have to keep refilling it, it’s not going to happen. 08:25 And when I brought this joke home, it’s like a half gallon, he laughed at me and he’s like, you have a million water bottles. 08:32 Why don’t you just use those? And I’m like, because they have a whole 20 ounces, I have to keep getting up. 08:37 I have to like if I have to refill it, that’s just not going to happen. He can’t wrap his head around why that’s hard for me. 08:41 And I’m like, I can’t either, but listen, this is just where we are. This is what I need. And it works. 08:47 For me. So for me, it was making it so super, stupid, easy to just have it there and not have to like even make more work for myself. 08:55 Like don’t put speed bumps like on your own path to success. Like make your, make your, make your plants easy to water. 09:01 Okay. Just like make it super simple for yourself. But then stress management. I love that that is a big part of your program because when you’re not doing that that has such far reaching impacts physical mental and emotional. 09:14 I don’t think people realize that having an active stress management strategies in place can have that much of an impact on their physical health because it trickles down to everything. Totally. And we know, we know for a fact that that increased stress and increased cortisol levels will lead to other health challenges down the road. 09:34 And so even if it’s thinking about those longer term thing, I work with a lot of women who have anxiety who have ADHD who have kind of these higher levels of sensory input if you, if you will. What you need for stress awareness and management when you’re out and about at the grocery store is going to be different than when you’re doing work in your office. And not only that, but there’s like that chronic low grade stress and then there’s like life event stress. And I think that the chronic low grade stress is so sneaky because you don’t even realize like you recognize when oh somebody close to us passes away that’s stressful or somebody’s a job or something like that that’s an event that you can recognize okay this is stressful. The constant little things that are like what’s that phrase like death by a thousand cuts it’s cumulative. And I think that was a really big aha in my own journey is when I was working with with my therapist is she brought that to my forefront to say Megan you have been living in this state of stress up here that it’s not surprising that you have trouble making decisions. That’s not surprising that you blow up at your kids when they do nothing it’s not surprising that conversation with your husband’s tens right because when we are in this constant state and again it doesn’t mean yes there’s a cute as you said like acute life events. The death of a lump one a big move of whatever it is that will trigger great levels of stress but it’s more of all of these just like the hustle of everyday living that over time really catches up to people and that’s where I find women speak me out is they say I don’t want to do this anymore right. I know that I can do this but I’m at a point where I don’t want to it doesn’t feel good. I think too another factor in there is like social media so we see everybody everybody dying for the award of most busy look how many things I’m doing look how. I’m going to be showing you a highlight reel where she’s doing all these different things of course she’s snapping like a twig as soon as she gets home but she’s not showing that so we are all kind of comparing our behind the scenes to everybody else’s highlight reel and we’re feeling kind of bad about ourselves about what we feel like we should be able to handle. Totally and I think that so many women suffer from that is just that comparison truly is the thief of joy right if we’re constantly comparing ourselves to the rest of the world to other people’s highlight reel. Yes, then when we see that and we feel that we’re like only down here we self sabotage right we continue to engrain stories that do not serve us. 12:07 One thing I work with women we talk about just even measuring success is how do we measure progress and not just again a over perfection right perfection being what you see on that person’s Instagram. 12:18 What are our measures of success because very well what you’re seeing on the screen isn’t even how you want to measure yourself. 12:25 It’s a little tricky to because we have die culture we have socialization of like how we’re measuring success are always these numbers right but there has to be like a qualitative way to look at how we’re improving different areas of our life versus a quantitative and saying how do we measure how we’re 12:42 improving our how we’re making progress without getting into. Numbers that aren’t necessarily indicators of health or indicators of anything right that’s that’s really helpful. 12:52 Right, I totally agree there’s one exercise I do with clients which I call the joy exercise which is really figuring out like what are the pieces that are missing in your life that you want that will bring you joy and for some it’s like peeling back the layers to say well I really think it’s this I  13:06 used to do this and recognizing okay that actually doesn’t serve me or in the season of life I’m in I can’t do that activity right and it’s figuring out ways exactly that at the end of the day. 13:15 I want my clients to feel good right and we know that feeling good isn’t going to be a number on the scale it’s not going to be the size pants that you’re wearing again in this culture where we are constantly trying to rise to a certain standard. 13:29 What happens when you hit that number what do we often do we then try to go up to the next and the next and it’s like we’re constantly striving rather than also just recognizing where you are how you can be happy in that moment. 13:40 Right it’s never enough when you’re like okay well this feels good well what about more and what about more. And then we’re constantly on that that hamster wheel of going to the next thing not to mention we’re socialized to think you know that if you hit this number the pantsize the scale that’s going 13:56 to be some kind of measure of happiness measure of you as a person. And yes we do live in a society that treats people better the smaller they are so they’re they’re going to always benefits just by society by achieving these things but it’s not it has nothing to do with your happiness and your life 14:15 and the things. Right because we know that sometimes the people that look that standard are the most unhappy right it’s figuring out what are what are those things that make you tick what are those things that are going to really make you feel good and make you feel like you are thriving. 14:27 All right Megan talk to me about your program to help people can work with you what does it look like. 14:32 I have been loving the work I’ve been doing in the wellness and empowerment coaching space that’s what I call myself a wellness and empowerment coach. 14:39 Because again I want to walk alongside someone until they feel that they can just take it on their own. Currently I’m taking a new one on one clients in my holistic wellness coaching which I do primarily virtually so you can be anywhere and I have what I call the best self package it’s how do we help you feel 14:54 like your best self and kind of as we talked about today. Take a look at some of those basics like the hydration nutrition movement and then we do get into the boundary setting and really it’s tailored to whatever a woman needs so I have someone who really like to dive deep into that nutrition space 15:09 and work for it’s mindful eating and I have someone where I just do a lot of work around organizational and time management stuff. 15:17 It’s everything not just fitness it’s not just foods you do a lot of mindset work and empowerment and why that is integral to building a practice that’s sustainable over their lifetime empowerment. 15:30 I’m curious if people use that word to describe what they want it is what they want they want to be empowered but are they using that word are they like man you know what I could really use some empowerment today. How can I how can I get empowered but but the thoughts that they have that mean that are more like man I wish I just felt like I wasn’t always like at the end of my rope I’m not always exhausted. I wish I could like offload this on to somebody else or I wish I could just kind of like clear my schedule and take some time for myself. Yeah, I find that women don’t often use that word empowered or empowerment but more so we’re hearing it kind of exactly like you said more I want more of a sense of control. Which comes down to kind of again with the way the brain works in terms of that all or nothing mindset is we want it this way or this way well, how do we find that happy medium right. I also find women and just in the work I do at the crossover between wellness coaching and craning clients physically training clients is just the feeling of strength and this feeling of energy right because one of the number one. I guess challenges that the woman I work with face is just this constant feeling of exhaustion and like we’re constantly spinning the wheels. So how do we work to change things so there’s not so much brain power. And that face so we do feel more empowered and we feel more in control, if you will, of of what we’re choosing to do with our life. The human brain is such an interesting thing, which has evolved over millions of years and we just naturally as humans are brain goes to the negative as a safety mechanism to try to protect ourselves as human and keep us safe. And so part of the work that I do with women is helping them shift that mindset to adopt a more positive mentality not to say that there’s not space for negative thoughts and for pain and for all of that, but just learning how to reframe certain situations so we can continue to move forward in the direction we are wanting to go. So is this kind of like a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset. Yeah, absolutely exactly that you know fixed mindset being that you are set in your ways, but the cool thing, especially I’ve got a background in education is human brains are adaptable and malleable and so just being able to recognize that we have the power to change our brain change our thinking just as we do any other habit that we’re looking to change. Right, so it’s not a change in all of these kind of grooved in patterns like neuro plasticity it’s the power to be able to go in and say this is the way I normally would approach like not even meaning to but just my default mode of when this happens. 18:09 What I think this is how I feel you can reprogram that that is mind boggling that you can change the reaction to have to something just by observing the pattern of what you normally do and stopping it and saying this is how I want to think about this and then you start to do it. 18:26 Exactly, and I think that we live in this culture and society were constantly on the go I work primarily with busy moms who are just like holding all the roles and constantly go go go so many expectations that oftentimes we don’t even take the time to. 18:40 I think that we do have the power to make those changes in brain and in body. Something that I’ve noticed and that something you’re doing physically can change where you are mentally like it really changes your state when you do something physical. 18:57 I do believe that movement is one of those kind of keys to unlocking women’s health when we can figure out how to insert regular movements intentional movement and purposeful movement as I call it. 19:08 Then we start to see some of the other shifts in their wellness happen to just such an unlock for a lot of people kind of connecting to the things that we’ve already talked about the brain piece and the thinking piece with the movement piece of this what I find. 19:24 With a lot of the woman the woman that I work with is that we have these beliefs as to what fitness what exercise needs to be, just based on the way that we are raised. 19:34 So we have this notion that it has to be a 60 minute class it has to be hard and sweating it has to be at the gym it has to be all these things and so then we fall into this all or nothing mindset of well. 19:45 I didn’t make it to my 60 minute class so I might as well just start again tomorrow or I’ll try again tomorrow as opposed to recognizing the power of again a lot of the woman I work with our working moms. 19:55 And just being able to take. 3 10 minute breaks throughout your day or 5 minute breaks even to just get up and move your body is that walking up and downstairs putting your laundry in is it a light stretch. 20:07 And again just working to shift the mind because when we change the mind we can then help change those actions for long term success. 20:14 For me it’s like lifting weights. If I can just take a few minutes take a few minutes to lift some weights my whole day is different. 20:23 Yeah and there’s so much research behind obviously just the power of movement whether it’s strength training whether it’s going out for a leisurely walk and just the power of moving your body and the endorphins come up and you know clearing the head some. 20:36 I think also you know there’s this the saying I guess that motion changes emotion. It’s even something as simple as okay you’re sitting at your desk your work done a work project you’re getting really frustrated you’re feeling anxiety come in as you can’t figure it out even just to physically remove 20:51 yourself from that space and change your location. Right it’s the physical movement and then it’s also just being in the front space can have so much power that’s why my watch is always like alright. 21:01 It could happen to go somewhere else for like five minutes you don’t have to do anything just go be somewhere else for five minute stand up just stand up. 21:10 Yes, we’ll look a little bit different when you sit back down. Totally and I think that one thing that I’ll often share either with clients or if I’m doing you know presentations or workshops is just to remember that as human beings again we talk a little bit about the human brain but as human beings 21:22 we are naturally born to be moving creatures. Hundreds of years ago we are hunters and gatherers and so just naturally our body doesn’t care for the sedentary lifestyle and over the last couple hundred years what do we do. 21:35 We sit at our jobs we sit in consume social media or TV or even sit and read right do we just have such a sedentary lifestyle that our body actually craves it and so I love this because we just covered physical activity impacts mental state and then the way you think about how you move. 21:53 Can also impact how often you do it and it’s a kind of like a back and forth like change the way you think about what activity needs to be you’re gonna do it more often you’re gonna have that physical movement that’s gonna change how your brain is kind of working at the moment and it’s going to snowball 22:10 . It totally is and it like comes down to that concept of the chicken and the egg right where which one comes first which one do you need first and I feel like for a lot of people changing up here can be really challenging. 22:21 So why not start by just trying to move your body start with five minutes and then see where that goes because it’s hard to just change the thoughts to then change that behavior right kind of take action and learn from it. 22:33 Like whatever new habit you want to have do something this big and then just let that momentum push you to keep doing other things and keep it going. 22:43 Building sustainable healthy habits is at the base of my holistic wellness coaching. I see so many women come in and saying I want to feel better I want more energy and they’ve tried all these extremes in the past with work for so long right we can do an intense workout program or eight or 12 weeks. 22:56 And then what happens is eventually life happens you get sick you travel some variable changes and then we fall off and need to come back and that’s why my approach is start small use habit stacking. 23:10 You know again success build upon success so we can just find tiny success recognize it and celebrate it. Do you do online and virtual personal training. 23:19 I do majority of my business is online and virtual a lot of strength based personal training as we know that’s so important especially as we age, I we have a lot of the wellness coaching work into it. 23:30 My training approach in the in the physical space but it’s all about functional movement. It’s what type of movements do we need and how come against strength so we can continue to enjoy the activities that we want to be doing one more 70 right. 23:43 Yeah, as we get older things are things are different. Yeah, they’re much challenging there are things I need to be doing so that I can keep moving it’s not always going to be this easy. 23:53 My target market is busy moms who are feeling overwhelmed and I help them find that confidence find that strength in both body and mind. 24:00 So I do some in person personal training but most of the stuff I do is be a zoom either personal training and the wellness coaching as well. 24:08 I love that now you do like real time zoom session like most of my clients I work with one time a week and and we’ll do one live 45 or 60 minute session depending what we’re set up on. 24:19 And then I do use an app where I can program and other workouts for them as well to do on their own time I also have a big of live recorded workouts from my group fitness virtual classes so often direct women. 24:34 To some of those as well for those that prefer to like work along with something as opposed to just check exercises off the box. 24:40 It’s nice to at least feel like you’re working out with somebody like when you’re home alone, but at least you feel like you have some kind of support. 24:48 You have a free gift for our audience it is the weekly wellness tracker can you talk to us a little bit about what that looks like. 24:54 Yeah, this is something that I created based on different trackers different planners that I’ve personally used that I’ve used with clients in the past. 25:02 I find oftentimes when women feel so far off track or want to work towards some type of change one of the easiest ways to plan and see success is using some type of tracker. 25:14 So I’ve set this up pretty simple. You can track kind of my five basic wellness areas or you can put your own stuff on there and I use it as both a planning tool as well as a tracking tool when I say tracking. 25:29 I want it to be a space where you check it off or you put the sticker on to celebrate because as we’ve talked about like our brain wants to see success. 25:37 And I love this even more so I know that some women start with this with me and then move into an app or move into the regular planner but having of your wellness and one space can be really powerful. And I am one of those physical write out my so I can check things off because I have tried to get into apps for it but something because it’s so easy right you have it on the app it’s all organized you can like, but what something about seeing it on a piece of paper checking a box putting a sticker seeing it done. It has so much more of a mental impact I agree yeah and I think the physical writing of it there’s research behind that just says that that will ingrain more into your into your brain into your psyche you know like to help you find success like yes apps definitely have a place and for some women that is what works at the end of the day, I don’t works for you. Megan, what I like to do at the end of every episode is have my guests give us their top three tips. The first one is just to remember the season of life that you’re in oftentimes we are comparing ourselves back to our past cells And so remember what’s within your control, because it’s very easy to get caught up on everybody else’s ish or things that are outside of our control so to just remember when making change remember the things that we do have the power to control. My second one is giving yourself permission, I think, as busy women, especially moms again we are constantly in this giving mode that is what society preaches to us is that We should be meeting everybody else’s needs, we should be giving all the time give yourself permission to prioritize yourself.  You have to until you give yourself permission and recognize that you can take time for you, you can put your own needs first it’s really hard to make change, because otherwise you’re doing it in a resentful state. I heard a lot of should so having that thought we’re like I should be doing this I should be doing that should that be like that should be a flag. We could talk a whole episode on this constant of shooting ourselves give yourself permission and identify what are the things that you actually want to do what you need and want to prioritize. And then I think the last piece of advice is just don’t feel like you have to go it alone. There is such great power and accountability and camaraderie whether it’s finding a group support whether it’s having an accountability buddy or if you are ready to take it to that next level, finding a coach, finding somebody who can help guide you and see your cheerleader, give you tools and support and help you work through the change that you’re looking to have. We know for a fact that motivation is going to come and go. So if you’re feeling motivated to start something, reach out, find a buddy, find a coach, right, because when you come to your lower points, that’s when you’re going to want to have some systems in place and have some other links, I have your website, I have all of your social media links, I’ll be putting those in the show notes as well as some of the links, some other things that we kind of mentioned like some studies you talked about. So I’ll put that in the show notes as well and a link to book a call with you and connect with you directly. Megan, thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Laurie, this was fun. I’ll see you next time. Listen to the RWR Podcast

Managing Stress and Anxiety with Kim Darroch, Certified Health CoachAbout Kim DarrochConnect With KimEpisode TranscriptView All RWR Podcast Episodes In this episode I sit down with certified health coach Kim Darroch to explore the benefits of creating an anxiety-friendly life and how making holistic lifestyle changes can minimize the impact that every day stress has on your physical and mental health. About Kim Darroch Hi, I’m Kim. I’m a National Board-Certified Health & Wellness Coach with a degree in psychology. I believe lasting health isn’t about strict rules or quick fixes, it’s about taking small, realistic steps that fit into your unique life. My coaching blends evidence-based practices with compassion and curiosity, helping you discover what truly matters to you so you can feel more energized, balanced, and aligned in daily life. Connect With Kim I am passionate about helping people calm the mind, let go of what’s holding them back, and step into a healthier, more joyful life. If you’re ready to explore what’s possible, I’d love to connect at [email protected]. on Instagram Kim’s website: www.kimdarroch.com on Facebook Kim’s Freebie: Daily Checklist for Managing Stress and Anxiety Episode Transcript Managing Stress and Anxiety with Kim Darroch, Certified Health Coach Welcome everyone. I am here with Kim Darroch who is a board certified health coach and she helps women with stress and anxiety become calm and confident. First I want to say welcome to Kim. There are obviously going to be situations and severity of conditions that will require medication and by all means if you need to take medication to manage your stress and your anxiety, we support that. Please take care of yourself. That being said, there are things that we can do to mitigate the need for medication in some cases. So if you are struggling with stress and anxiety, what are the benefits? Why should somebody be looking for either non-medication solutions or holistic approaches to managing this? The thing with anxiety or chronic stress is that it’s very easy to find ways to manage it without side effects. A lot of times when you take a prescription med, it can solve a problem and then also create some. So when you take a holistic approach, you are doing things in your life to make the anxiety better. So it’s almost like you’re living an anxiety-friendly life. And when you do that, mental health and physical health are really one and the same thing. Like for all the same body and so you are improving your physical health, your mental health, all at the same time without side effects. And so thinking about things that are things getting back to basics, you know, how are you nourishing your body? What are you eating? How are you sleeping? How are you managing your stress? What are you doing to relax? How are you connecting with other people? And it’s super important because anxiety can lead to other health problems. And not only that, but there are physical symptoms that go with anxiety. So migraines are often a common thing for people that have anxiety or GI issues like IBS and stuff like that. So taking a holistic approach, you’re going to really target your whole system and you’re going to feel better mentally, physically, spiritually, you name it, you’re going to feel better. Laurie: You are a board certified health coach and you specialize in this. So can you tell me a little bit about how you became a health coach and this became the area of your expertise? Kim: Yeah. So I’ve actually always worked in healthcare. I started out working in clinical research, running drug studies. So for over 10 years, I was working in the pharmaceutical industry. And during that time, I really had the mindset, like there’s a pill for every ill. So if something’s wrong, you have a symptom, you go to the doctor, you get medication and that’s how you manage your health. And it was really disempowering. I felt like I didn’t have control over what was going to happen to me healthwise. And when you’re naturally prone to anxiety as it is, that’s not a great way to be living life. I had migraines. I had medicine for those. And when I got a migraine, either way, I was going to end up in bed. Because either the medicine made me so groggy that I had to go to bed or my head hurts so that I had to go to bed. So when we had our third child, I decided to step away from work for a bit. I had three kids and four years. You know, kind of, I think I’m going to focus on this for a bit. And when my daughter was about 11 months old, we ended up moving to London for my husband’s job. And there were things that I was noticing over there that just had a very different approach to how things were in the US. So for example, if you went to the American store there, the macaroni and cheese that was imported had to have a big warning label because it caused hyperactivity in children. Whereas the macaroni and cheese specifically produced for the UK used different ingredients and didn’t have that warning label. And then like personal care products at that time, I think there were 3,000 chemicals that were banned in personal care products in the UK, whereas in the US, it was like less than 10 things were different in a way that I was noticing. And so while we were there really kind of changed how we were fueling our bodies .. we were walking every day because we didn’t have a car and really just started feeling good. We moved home. I went back to work and quickly realized that I was now feeling like I needed to be on the preventative and of health and wellness rather than you’re already sick. Instead of trying these lifestyle changes, you can take this medicine. My mindset had just changed in a way that I knew that I needed to do something different. More work again and my husband and I were talking about, you know, okay, I should be a health coach, but I wasn’t ready and the universe was going to make sure I knew that because we were hit with a traumatic event in our family that created chronic stress that I had really zero tools to manage it other than I did work out and I did eat well. And I was like, I just want to feel better, but I want to feel better in a way that will last and will be permanent. And so I just kind of like dug in and started learning all these stress management strategies. I had really disrupted my gut microbiome and so I just started doing all these things. I really focused on sleep. I hadn’t been sleeping well and slowly, but surely I got better and then I decided, okay, now I’m ready to be a health coach. So I went and got certified in 2022. We had some again, some intense stress in our family. And I didn’t even honestly realize it during it. It was just recently I looked back and I was like, Oh wow, that was some crazy stress and I breezed through it. So I just knew what to do if fear or worry came up and I would sit with it and honor it and then move through it. And so I just felt very passionate about doing this for other women as well. There’s ways and so many things you can do to support yourself to get through life because life is going to throw stuff at you. There’s no way to avoid that. But being able to handle it with strength and feeling on the other end like looking back like wow, I did that that is how my story of how I got here. So just to recap, you had what you said you had three kids in five years or four years? Kim: Three kids in four years and three months. I had one in eight years and that was plenty. I don’t even know a lot of life changes moving overseas seeing how things were done a little bit differently, different approach encountering your own stressful life events and recognizing that in the way that your mindset had shifted that you wanted to  approach managing that stress differently by looking for a set of sustainable self care tools that you could use that didn’t involve medication. You were opting for a medication-free route to manage that. And then what you found was that those strategies or those practices had become so integrated in your lifestyle that it wasn’t a hey I’m doing this only when I feel like it was just things that you did because that’s what you did. So eating in a way that felt good for you sleeping in hindsight recognized that this particular period of time was stressful, but it didn’t disrupt your physical health, mental health or your life the way that you had experienced in the past. So that must have been a huge wow proud of yourself for developing those skills and for making it an integrated practice in your life. Yeah, and just the powerfulness of it that I could get through something so challenging without feeling a bunch of anxiety or stress or when I did to just know what to do to manage it feel it but move on not get caught up in it I guess so. And I would like to say I also have used medication in the past. I had postpartum anxiety with my second son and it was like extremely uncomfortable thing and I had a baby to take care of. So that at that point, I needed a short course of medication and I moved on with life and then when I had my third child, I didn’t even wait for it to start again. I started the medication in the hospital so I definitely think that medication has a place in all this. But for me more recently with everything I’m going through I wanted something that will give me the results that I had last year in this stress and anxiety hit because of the situation and I just breeze through it because I had all these tools. I never even needed medication like I never even had a point where I was miserable or uncomfortable. I was joyful and happy through it all. It was quite different. You hinted at a stress management practice I’m going to guess it was meditation or yoga. Yeah, so I like yoga I would say that I don’t do it consistently enough to call out a practice. Okay, and meditation has been an ongoing struggle for me. 10:38 I don’t find it easy to sit down and use a meditation app. So I actually just have built mindfulness into my day. Yeah, and I just have periods throughout the day where I practice it. And then I did finally find a meditation type app that I adore and I think is really, really often for people with anxiety. It’s called the tapping solution and it’s based on emotion freedom  technique. And it’s a very active type of meditation because you’re tapping on the end of your meridians and repeating things. And so I do that. Pretty much daily now, but you know, when I was first starting this all was more building that mindfulness into the day. Lots of breathing. Lots of relaxation at bedtime so like the NDSR type yoga nidra, almost like a sleep story or progressive muscle relaxation type of thing to calm your body at bedtime and get you ready to sleep. Okay, so I was wrong. That’s okay. It happens. That’s what my therapist told me 25 years ago when I was having horrible anxiety and I asked for medication. I was like, look, I can’t even function like a normal human. I can’t eat. I can’t sleep. I can’t do anything. I need some pills. And he’s like, okay, but first I’d like you to try yoga and meditation. And I was like, GTFO. We’re not doing that.. just give me the Xanax.  just give me the Ativan..I gotta get out of here. Those are the big two, I guess 25 years ago? But yeah, mindfulness and breathing and EFP, the tapping that you mentioned. Okay. So those just became things that you did and you you. Can we talk a little bit about what is anxiety, like specifically when we talk about being anxious or feeling anxiety. What’s actually happening in the body. It’s going to be unique to each person. What anxiety is like for them. When your nervous system is kind of getting stuck in that fight or flight and you’re not experiencing states of calm or relaxation, dealing with the constant worry. Stomach aches, migraines and just this feeling of something’s not right. And it’s really an uncomfortable place to be in dealing with chronic anxiety. And the same goes for stress. So if we have chronic stress that’s unmanaged. What’s the physical and mental impact that may result? Chronic stress is really detrimental to health. It destroys your gut bacteria. It makes your hormones go crazy. It interrupts your ability to sleep. And then long term can lead to bigger issues with cardiac health and high blood pressure. Even diabetes is sometimes a result of too much stress.So it’s something that you definitely need to figure out a way to have tools and manage your stress. And knowing that there are times that we can remove stress. There’s sometimes where you can’t. There’s sometimes where you will have to stay in a stressful situation and you have to have tools to be able to manage that. And this is a really interesting thing is actually there’s a component of the story you tell yourself about stress impacts the stress. So if you’re in a stressful situation and you’re like, oh my gosh, this is awful. I can’t do this. I’m never going to make it. It just creates more stress in your body. Whereas if you’re like, okay, I’ve got a lot of my plate today. I’m going to take things one at a time and I’m going to, you know, see where I am at the end of the day and create the list for tomorrow. Whatever it is, it’s really important to what you’re telling yourself about your stress. And so being able to reframe it in a more positive way is going to create less stress. Well, that’s interesting. So you can actually make things worse just by having that self talk loop about what’s happening. Because what’s happening is just factual. It just is, but you can interpret it and either tell yourself, I’m so overwhelmed. I can’t believe I have to do all this. You make it worse. Or you can just say, listen, here’s where we are. These are the one, two, three things that we need to do. This is what we’re going to work on. And that’s it. And that’s all we’re going to look at. We’re not going to get sucked into a negative self-talk loop that’s going to exacerbate the stress that I’m already feeling about what’s ahead of me or what’s happening. Yes, exactly. And I think that brings also the importance of the present moment. Most of the time the present moment is a really great place to be in a really safe place to be. Let’s say you’re having a stressful day at work. You come into the present moment. You’re probably just sitting at your desk and you’re safe. And you have water to drink if you’re thirsty and you have a snack, the eat if you’re hungry. It’s a safe place to be in the present moment. But when we go into the future and worry about everything that has to happen or we go into the path and worry about something we did yesterday. That’s really when we get worked up and stressed out. So coming back into this present moment and noting, okay, I’m okay, I am okay right now right here right now. I’m okay is a really powerful thing. I love that. I want to talk a little bit about mindfulness and like being present as a strategy that you use for managing stress and anxiety. Mindfulness is one of the things that I use daily and without really a formal practice because you can use it all throughout the day. If you really think about how much we do without really thinking about it, we drive to work and we don’t even know how we got there. We eat our lunch and we barely tasted it. So my fullness throughout the day is on my drive to work. I’m really going to feel the steering wheel in my hands and I’m really going to feel my back against the seat. And I’m really going to take in the view as I’m driving to work. And then as I’m eating my lunch, I’m going to focus on the colors of the food that I’m eating and the texture as I put it in my mouth and the flavor and what it feels like to swallow. And then, you know, when I’m talking to my child, I’m going to really be focused on what they’re saying and being connected to them. So this practice of being mindful, yes, there are formal ways to do it, but then there’s also these informal ways of just doing it throughout the day so that it doesn’t take up any extra time and yet you’re doing something really powerful for your nervous system for your brain for your whole body by doing these things. And then there’s one other thing I want to mention with mindfulness that I really, really love. It’s called loving kindness. I recently had to go to the bank, which I don’t normally have to do nowadays, we just do everything online, but I needed to get some cash to give to my nieces and nephews and the outdoor line was closed, so I had to go in. And there was one teller and there was only one person in front of me, but it was taking a really long time and I was starting to feel frustrated and annoyed and I caught it and I paused and then I started sending loving kindness to the person in front of me that was being waited and I started sending loving kindness to the teller that was working on it. And in my body, I could feel a switch in the energy and it was very powerful. So the next time someone cuts you off and traffic, send them loving kindness. We don’t know what they’re going through. We don’t know why they had to cut you off. Who cares? Just send them loving kindness. It will make you feel better. Okay, so what does that mean? Dumb this way down for me, right? Because if somebody cuts me off. The first thing I’m thinking of is a string of expletives, right? And then I need to not do that because I usually have my son on the car. And he’s learning about words that we say and words we don’t say. I mean, that’s not a bad word. So yeah, getting to a point where it’s like that doesn’t set you off and send you into a rage and and thanks. So if I’m sending loving kindness to somebody who has offended me in some way, what does that mean? Whatever you can send when someone has cut you off, like even I wish you a good day, like anything that is of a positive note sending it to them and wishing them well makes you feel better. Okay, so basically giving them the benefit of the doubt that they’re doing the best that they can wherever they are and that maybe there’s an emergency, maybe they had to, maybe they’re having a baby, maybe there’s a fire. Maybe they’re the mayor and they have to get somewhere. I don’t know, but maybe there’s something happening that I don’t know about and there’s a perfectly valid reason why they did that thing. And in the grand scheme of life is this something worth expanding energy time anything on probably not. Yeah, exactly. I like what you said like they’re doing the best that they can in the moment because that’s really what we’re all doing doing the best that we can in the moment. And you know what I’ll be honest, there are times where I’m that person and I’m doing the thing that is probably offending somebody else and 99% of the time it is not intentional. I’m going to give myself that 1% because sometimes I can be a spiteful be i’m not going to lie. Most of the time it’s not even paying attention or understanding how my actions are impacting other people. So you know what if that was the response that I would want to get in that situation. So just thinking of it is kind of a reframe. I like that. Okay, Kim tell me about how you work with your clients and what it looks like to work with you. I have a 12 week coaching program and we meet weekly virtually one zoom and I’d have a framework that I pull from of course, but with health coaching is very client specific. I have an assessment I use that is specific to stress and anxiety. What is their biggest struggle with it? When are they feeling it the most and how are they sleeping? How do they have digestive issues that go along with their anxiety? So I have some people that come to me and they’re already meditating or they’re already working out and so of course, then I don’t need to work on that with them. So it’s very specific to where they are and what they’re struggling with. A lot of the people that come to me have issues with how they speak to themselves. So I have them start looking at how they’re talking to themselves and writing it down and trying to flip it. And a lot of them aren’t really focused on what they’re eating and putting in their bodies. So we kind of start to look at that and easy things to do for sleep and all that. So it’s really client specific with an amazing framework that I have used with other women and also for myself to create lasting change where you feel positive benefits. So what you do is a personalized approach, you meet them where they are and you do an assessment basically to say okay here are the different areas. Where are we? What should we work on that makes the most sense for you right now? And then you work on the different areas there are a lot of symptoms of anxiety that I’ve had throughout my life that I didn’t know were anxiety so people pleasing and constantly striving for the next level and perfectionism and these are like all signs of high functioning anxiety. But there were things I just didn’t even recognize. I didn’t either. I didn’t know perfectionism and you know always going to the next level never being happy where you are. No idea those were part of anxiety but it makes sense when you think about it. So if you have somebody who has this checklist and say okay these are things that I’m doing maybe this is something I should look into. I think a lot of people do recognize that they have some level of stressing anxiety but it’s like where where are they falling and how is it impacting what’s the domino effect on the rest of my life here like how is it outreaching or how was it kind of expanding and touching different areas of my life  that I’m not even aware of. So you have an individualized approach. You work with clients one on one, meet them where they identify the areas that they feel comfortable taking action or making changes and then progress from there. Yes, and we really look at their daily schedule, their weekly schedule, their monthly schedule and find ways to implement changes that fit into their life so you know it’s not about saying okay you needed to X, Y and Z it’s about your some great options. How can you fit them into your life and sometimes people are like that is not going to work for me and so then we try the next thing you know so it’s really finding what works in their life and to get them feeling better.  Right, because the whole point is it’s got to be sustainable for them. It’s meaningless if you’re just giving them a checklist and saying here are all the things you can do good luck like. And they’re like I can’t do this. I’m this doesn’t work for me letting them kind of lead the process and decide what is going to be sustainable and things that they feel like they can handle. Yes, exactly perfect to get started with you. I’m going to put the link to book a call with you for a free mini coaching session. You are on Facebook and you’re on Instagram. I’m going to be putting those links in the notes as well. And you have a free before our listeners can tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so it is a daily checklist that you can use for managing stress and anxiety and it gets you to focus on four areas. What around eating, moving, connecting and thinking it really fits into each of those areas and it also includes a scientifically proven way to make yourself happier so.Check it out.  Okay, we will put the link for that in the notes as well. All right, Kim, we’re going to wrap up what I like to do at the end of every episode is to have my guest give me their top three tips around their area of expertise so go ahead and give me what you got. Yeah, so I would say the first tip is if you have been dealing with anxiety for a while and you try therapy and other things and you’re still struggling. Be aware of how certain foods affect your mood. So there are certain foods that are known to trigger anxiety caffeine is an example. So if you notice that you have your morning coffee and then you start to feel a little anxious, maybe you want to experiment with that a little bit, try decaf one day and see what happens. So really being mindful and paying attention to certain foods and how that impacts how you’re feeling. We are very much pro intuitive eating, which is listening to your body. So if certain foods give you an experience, we’re not saying, you know, don’t eat foods, but listen to your body and if certain foods don’t feel good in your body, you can make choices in the future about whether or not you want to include these foods. My second tip is practice gratitude and this one is so easy. You can do it in a formal practice where you write it down or it can just be something that you think and so you’re going to think of three things that you feel grateful for and start out simple. Like I love a sunny day. So if this is a sunny day, I’m going to stop and feel gratitude and appreciation for that. And if you do this consistently for 30 days, you are going to feel happier and it’s a recent point for me now where I don’t have a formal gratitude practice, but I am feeling gratitude all day long. I tend to notice everything that is beautiful and good and feel good about it. And so it’s a brain training exercises really retraining your brain and looking through the good things and that makes you feel better. So I definitely recommend that you will be feeling joy from the inside out. And then the other thing I like to say is you need to make friends with your anxiety. It is a messenger trying to tell you something. So instead of like trying to avoid it or push it away, sit with it and maybe put a hand on your heart and really feel into what you’re going through and then like to be your own best friend. So comforting words like hey you’re okay right now. Everything’s okay. Everything’s going to be okay. Let’s stay here in this moment. Let’s take some deep breaths. So being really kind and encouraging to yourself in a way that you would be to a friend who might be going through anxiety. That’s nice. I love that. How often are we intentionally kind to ourselves? Yeah. Until I became mindful of doing it not very often. Yeah. That’s definitely something I could use because I’d have the whole like, okay, you didn’t do this. You’re not doing this. Oh, and I just had a birthday and I was like, Laurie, you are 29 years old again at what point are you going to learn how to just kidding I’m 48 and I’m thrilled about it. But when are you going to learn how to do “blank” and my recent thing was meal planning like I still don’t… I am still not great about planning my meals or picking out clothes or looking put together like when am I going to learn how to do that. So giving myself some grace and saying, you know what is that. Yeah. Nice. What are some good things? What are some nice things that we can do? You’re going to learn those things one is important enough for you to learn it. You just have other priorities that are more important to you. And there’s some grace right there. I appreciate that. Well, Kim. This has been fantastic. I am so happy that you came by today to talk to us about managing stress and anxiety because I think right now we all could use some help with this. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. View All RWR Podcast Episodes