Never Contemplated

The Florida Bar

The Florida Bar’s Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism presents Never Contemplated, a candid discussion with female judges from across the state about gender bias, professionalism, and civility in the judicial system, hosted by Judge Hetal Desai.

Disclaimer: The views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of, nor are they endorsed by The Florida Bar, their respective officers, directors, employees, agents, or representatives. None of the content should be considered legal advice. As always, consult a lawyer.

31 Episodes

Administrative Lawyers: The Coolest People
9/28/2026
34:52
Join us for a conversation with Elizabeth Fernandez, Chair of the Administrative Law Section, and Judge Hetal Desai, as they explore the unique practice of administrative law in Florida. Ms. Fernandez explains what Water Management Districts do, why water law is so important to the state, and how to foster a collaborative office culture. She also shares the importance of participating in non-legal volunteer opportunities (like scrubbing the turtle tank at Mote Aquarium). Whether you practice or are interested in administrative or environmental law—or simply appreciate Florida’s remarkable aquatic resources—this is an episode you won’t want to miss.This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of General and 0.5 hour of Professionalism. CLE credit Course #260063
Pick it and Stick It
7/10/2026
53:53
Join us for this fresh reboot of Never Contemplated where our host Judge Hetal Desai talks to Judge Carrie Ann Wozniak, the incoming Chair of The Florida Bar Appellate Court Rules Committee. Listen to Judge Wozniak discuss the importance of travel, what it is like to be a judge in the newest appellate district, and why young attorneys should do pro bono and guardian ad litem work. Judge Wozniak gives us tips on writing (keep it short), re-writing (edit, edit, edit), and preparing for oral argument (overprepare but treat it like a conversation). This episode is a great kick off to what should be an educational and entertaining new season.Links to Guardian Ad Litem and Appellate Law Section:https://guardianadlitem.org/(https://clicktime.symantec.com/15xVcJcfzbVxsnwpg1Cuk?h=xrYsr-UqQoVs3-9daVXARJGC-_LHHBGlwPk3-zL4ip8=&u=https://guardianadlitem.org/)https://flabarappellate.org/https://www.floridabar.org/about/cmtes/cmtes-cm/cmte-cm205/This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hour of General and 0.5 hour of Professionalism. CLE credit Course #9930
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The Practice of Law May be Different Than You Imagined
9/5/2024
36:15
Listen to our episode with Magie Ozarowski, the new host of the On Civility podcast. Judge Desai and Ms. Ozarowski talk about what it’s like to be a government attorney, to regulate alcohol, to be a Fellow in The Florida Bar's Leadership Academy, and to explore the world.This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8694.
Never Contemplated with Renée E. Thompson Chair-Elect of The Florida Bar’s Solo & Small Firm Section
6/27/2024
33:03
Enjoy this interactive session as our host, Judge Hetal Desai talks with Renée E. Thompson Chair of The Florida Bar’s Solo & Small Firm Section as they discuss the many benefits of section membership. CLE #8573 .5 Professionalism and General Credit.
Committee Work -Collaborating to Create a Better World for Colleagues and Florida Families
4/16/2024
46:58
In this episode of Never Contemplated, host Judge Hetal Desai talks with two distinguished members of The Florida Bar’s Family Law Section, Sarah Kay, and Shannon Novey. Tune in as they share their expertise and shed light on the intricacies of this multifaceted legal field. CLE Number: 8460
Immerse Yourself and Just Get Involved - Victoria Heuler and Sarah Butters
1/23/2024
49:46
Meet Victoria Heuler and Sarah Butters, leaders of the Florida Bar’s Elder Law and Real Property Probate and Trust Law (RPPTL) Sections. Learn about the differences and similarities between these practice areas, and the professional and practical benefits to joining a Bar Section.This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8306.Links:The Florida Bar RPPTL SectionElder Law Section of the Florida Bar (eldersection.org)
Surround Yourself with Amazing People - Rebecca Bandy
11/30/2023
46:20
This episode is a true holiday gift. Enjoy this interactive recording with Judge Hetal Desai and Rebecca Bandy, Director of the Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism at The Florida Bar, where they discuss her story and legal professionalism live from the National Association of Administrative Law Judiciary Conference in Tampa, Florida.This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8231.REFERENCED RESOURCES: Segregated Proms and SOUTHERN RITES:https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/15/integrated-proms-race-georgia-gillian-laub-photographshttps://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/magazine/24prom-t.htmlhttps://www.blind-magazine.com/news/black-queen-white-queen/https://www.southernritesproject.com/ The USS COLE, Carl Wingate’s Journalhttps://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132305&page=1https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/military/2011/05/04/first-coast-survivor-uss-cole-blast-can-finally-sleep-soundly/15905090007/
It’s a much more gratifying way of life when you are serving others - Justice Meredith Sasso
10/18/2023
40:50
Meet Justice Meredith Sasso, the newest member of the Florida Supreme Court. Listen to her conversation with Judge Hetal Desai about growing up in the capital city, what being on a sports team taught her, Guardian Ad Litem (https://guardianadlitem.org/), the creation and workings of the 6th DCA, and the importance of the Bar’s rules committees.This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8182.
The Ability to Read the Room is as Important as the Ability to Read the Law - Alexis Fowler
8/18/2023
49:54
Enjoy this interactive session with Judge Desai and Alexis Fowler, Government Relations Director at Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa, where they discuss her survival story and the importance of giving back. This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.5 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7916.
Recognize Your Own Talents - Melanie S. Griffin
4/26/2023
35:37
Enjoy this speed session with Judge Desai and Secretary of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR), where they discuss mentorship, the FSU J.D./M.B.A. program, evaluating life-work balance in the long term, getting over imposter syndrome, the workings of DBPR, and the Secretary’s personal story of motherhood.http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/ Twitter:@melaniesgriffin@floridadbprThis podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7463.

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Never Contemplated

The Florida Bar

31 Episodes

Administrative Lawyers: The Coolest People

Pick it and Stick It

The Practice of Law May be Different Than You Imagined

Never Contemplated with Renée E. Thompson Chair-Elect of The Florida Bar’s Solo & Small Firm Section

Committee Work -Collaborating to Create a Better World for Colleagues and Florida Families

Immerse Yourself and Just Get Involved - Victoria Heuler and Sarah Butters

Surround Yourself with Amazing People - Rebecca Bandy

It’s a much more gratifying way of life when you are serving others - Justice Meredith Sasso

The Ability to Read the Room is as Important as the Ability to Read the Law - Alexis Fowler

Recognize Your Own Talents - Melanie S. Griffin