Episode 230: Catherine & David Birnie Part 1

On the evening of February 4, 1972, middle school friends Maureen Sterling and Yvonne Weber left their homes with a plan to hitchhike to the Redwood Empire Ice Arena in Santa Rosa, California—it was the last time either girl would be seen alive. Nearly one year later, the bodies of Maureen and Yvonne were discovered at the foot of a steep embankment in a rural part of Santa Rosa, identifiable only by the jewelry Maureen had been wearing the night she left the house. By the time the remains of Sterling and Weber were discovered, three other young women from the Santa Rosa area had gone missing or been found murdered, all of whom had been seen hitchhiking just prior to their disappearance. In time, law enforcement officials would link Sterling and Weber’s murders to the other three woman discovered in 1972, and three others that occurred in the year that followed, all believed to have been killed by the same man or men. The Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders, as they’re informally known, are one California’s most perplexing cold cases in the state’s history. In addition to the eight women believed to be victims of the same killer, there are several others who disappeared under similar circumstances and could potentially be additional victims. Although there have been several theories as to who was responsible for the deaths, including Ted Bundy and the Zodiac Killer, there has never been any evidence to positively identify the killer.Thank you to the brilliant David White, of the Bring Me the Axe podcast, for research!ReferencesCook, Stephen. 1975. "Death census--young women, hitchhikers, strangulation." San Francisco Examiner, April 25: 24.Dowd, Katie. 2022. "Search continues for Bay Area serial killer who murdered at least 7 women and girls." San Francisco Chronicle, March 13.Fagan, Kevin. 2011. "Ted Bundy a suspect in Sonoma County cold cases." San Francisco Chronicle, July 7.Johnson, Julie, and Randi Rossmann. 2011. "40-year-old mystery." Press Democrat, July 29: 1.LaFever, Matt. 2022. 49 years ago, a southern Humboldt woman was killed on her way home for Christmas. July 21. Accessed March 13, 2024. https://mendofever.com/2022/07/21/49-years-ago-a-southern-humboldt-woman-was-killed-on-her-way-home-for-christmas-by-the-santa-rosa-hitchhiker-murderer/.Press Democrat. 1974. "FBI says nylon rope little help in slaying investigation ." Press Democrat, January 10: 3.—. 1972. "Female hitchhikers and the pain of Kim's mother." Press Democrat, April 27: 1.—. 1972. "Femnale hitchhikers and the pain of Kim's mother." Press Democrat, April 27: 1.—. 1972. "Hitchhiking SRJC coed is missing." Press Democrat, April 27: 1.—. 1972. "Lawmen say woman's killer could be injured." Press Democrat, March 9.—. 1972. "Slain woman was tortured; no identity yet." Press Democrat, March 8.Reid, James. 1973. "$2,000 offered in death of girls." Press Democrat, January 3: 1.—. 1973. "Another slain girl found east of SR." Press Democrat, August 1: 1.—. 1973. "Who is the slain girl found off county road?" Press Democrat, August 2: 1.—. 1975. "Zodiac theory doubted." Press Democrat, April 24: 1.Rossmann, Randi. 1989. "Police don't like to give up on slayings." Press Democrat, March 5: 1.Saludes, Bony. 1973. "Bodies identified as two missing SR girls." Press Democrat, Janaury 1: 1.Sonoma County Sheriff's Office. 1972. Female Homicide Victims Report (Santa Rosa Hitchhiker Murders). Law enforcement, Santa Rosa, CA: Sonoma County Sheriff's Office.United Press International. 1973. "Officers seek link in deaths of 5 girls." Los Angeles Times, August 17: 3.Volkerts, Art. 1972. "Secret witness--can you help solve a crime?" Press Democrat, December 27: 1.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What drove the mild-mannered farmer to commit such hideous and depraved acts in America’s heartland, and why do people from around the world continue to find him so infamous?Thank you to the magical Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1968. "Gein prosecution winds up murder testimony." Capital Times, November 9: 9.—. 1968. "Gein ruled fit to stand trial." Green Bay Press-Gazette, January 16: 1.Capital Times. 1958. "Bar Gein house admission fees." Capital Times, March 12: 4.—. 1957. "Claims ten skulls came from graves ." Capital Times, November 18: 1.—. 1958. "Gein insane, psychiatrist tells court." Capital Times, January 6: 3.—. 1957. "Nearly wed gein, woman reveals." Capital Times, November 20: 1.—. 1957. "Plan to open at least two." Capital Times, November 23: 1.—. 1957. "Weeping Gein joins minister in prayer." Capital Times, November 22: 1.—. 1957. "'Won't believe' graves robbed ." Capital Times, November 19: 1.Daily Tribune. 1954. "Believe Bancroft tavernkeeper was slain." Daily Tribune, December 9: 1.—. 1944. "Rites today for the man who died in Roche-a-Cri fire." Daily Tribune, May 19: 1.Engel, Dave. 2005. "Whatever happened to Mary Hogan?" Daily Tribune, December 5: 6.La Crosse Tribune. 1957. "State pushes murder charges against ." La Crosse Tribune, November 22: 1.Portage Daily Register. 1957. "New rifle in shop used in slaying storekeeper." Portage Daily Register, November 19: 1.Schechter, Harold. 1998. Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. New York, NY: Gallery Books.Stevens Point Journal. 1958. "Ed Gein's real estate sold for under $4,000." Stevens Point Journal, March 31: 1.—. 1958. "Gein farmhouse leveled by early morning blaze." Stevens Point Journal, March 20: 1.—. 1958. "Open house at Gein farm draws crowds." Stevens Point Journal, March 24: 1.—. 1957. "Results of lie test announced." Stevens Point Journal, November 20: 1.—. 1954. "Woman's disappearance hints slaying at Pine Grove tavern." Stevens Point Journal, December 9: 1.United Press. 1957. "Hospital gets ready for Gein." Capital Times, November 23: 2.United Press International. 1968. "Ed Gein found guilty of 1957 murder in Plainfield." Capital Times, November 14: 2.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When hardware store owner Bernice Worden disappeared from her store on the morning of November 16, 1957, sheriff’s deputies traced the last sale made that morning to fifty-one-year-old recluse and occasional handyman Ed Gein. During a cursory search of the Gein property, investigators quickly located Worden’s decapitated and mutilated body in a shed on Gein’s property, but that was only one of the many horrors that awaited them on the farmstead. Inside the house, deputies found one of the most shocking and horrifying scenes ever documented in the history of American crime, revealing that the mild-mannered handyman locals had always believed harmless, was in fact a profoundly psychotic killer.Thank you to the magnificent Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1968. "Gein prosecution winds up murder testimony." Capital Times, November 9: 9.—. 1968. "Gein ruled fit to stand trial." Green Bay Press-Gazette, January 16: 1.Capital Times. 1958. "Bar Gein house admission fees." Capital Times, March 12: 4.—. 1957. "Claims ten skulls came from graves ." Capital Times, November 18: 1.—. 1958. "Gein insane, psychiatrist tells court." Capital Times, January 6: 3.—. 1957. "Nearly wed gein, woman reveals." Capital Times, November 20: 1.—. 1957. "Plan to open at least two." Capital Times, November 23: 1.—. 1957. "Weeping Gein joins minister in prayer." Capital Times, November 22: 1.—. 1957. "'Won't believe' graves robbed ." Capital Times, November 19: 1.Daily Tribune. 1954. "Believe Bancroft tavernkeeper was slain." Daily Tribune, December 9: 1.—. 1944. "Rites today for the man who died in Roche-a-Cri fire." Daily Tribune, May 19: 1.Engel, Dave. 2005. "Whatever happened to Mary Hogan?" Daily Tribune, December 5: 6.La Crosse Tribune. 1957. "State pushes murder charges against ." La Crosse Tribune, November 22: 1.Portage Daily Register. 1957. "New rifle in shop used in slaying storekeeper." Portage Daily Register, November 19: 1.Schechter, Harold. 1998. Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. New York, NY: Gallery Books.Stevens Point Journal. 1958. "Ed Gein's real estate sold for under $4,000." Stevens Point Journal, March 31: 1.—. 1958. "Gein farmhouse leveled by early morning blaze." Stevens Point Journal, March 20: 1.—. 1958. "Open house at Gein farm draws crowds." Stevens Point Journal, March 24: 1.—. 1957. "Results of lie test announced." Stevens Point Journal, November 20: 1.—. 1954. "Woman's disappearance hints slaying at Pine Grove tavern." Stevens Point Journal, December 9: 1.United Press. 1957. "Hospital gets ready for Gein." Capital Times, November 23: 2.United Press International. 1968. "Ed Gein found guilty of 1957 murder in Plainfield." Capital Times, November 14: 2.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Not since Jack the Ripper or H.H. Holmes had a criminal so thoroughly shocked and captivated the public imagination; yet Gein’s crimes went far beyond what anyone imagined a person could be capable of. Indeed, he has served as the basis for some of Hollywood’s most iconic horror films including Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And, while he is only known to have killed two people during his active period, the list of crimes he is suspected of having committed is long and likely to remain a source of speculation for a long time to come.Thank you to the magical Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1968. "Gein prosecution winds up murder testimony." Capital Times, November 9: 9.—. 1968. "Gein ruled fit to stand trial." Green Bay Press-Gazette, January 16: 1.Capital Times. 1958. "Bar Gein house admission fees." Capital Times, March 12: 4.—. 1957. "Claims ten skulls came from graves ." Capital Times, November 18: 1.—. 1958. "Gein insane, psychiatrist tells court." Capital Times, January 6: 3.—. 1957. "Nearly wed gein, woman reveals." Capital Times, November 20: 1.—. 1957. "Plan to open at least two." Capital Times, November 23: 1.—. 1957. "Weeping Gein joins minister in prayer." Capital Times, November 22: 1.—. 1957. "'Won't believe' graves robbed ." Capital Times, November 19: 1.Daily Tribune. 1954. "Believe Bancroft tavernkeeper was slain." Daily Tribune, December 9: 1.—. 1944. "Rites today for the man who died in Roche-a-Cri fire." Daily Tribune, May 19: 1.Engel, Dave. 2005. "Whatever happened to Mary Hogan?" Daily Tribune, December 5: 6.La Crosse Tribune. 1957. "State pushes murder charges against ." La Crosse Tribune, November 22: 1.Portage Daily Register. 1957. "New rifle in shop used in slaying storekeeper." Portage Daily Register, November 19: 1.Schechter, Harold. 1998. Deviant: The Shocking True Story of Ed Gein, the Original Psycho. New York, NY: Gallery Books.Stevens Point Journal. 1958. "Ed Gein's real estate sold for under $4,000." Stevens Point Journal, March 31: 1.—. 1958. "Gein farmhouse leveled by early morning blaze." Stevens Point Journal, March 20: 1.—. 1958. "Open house at Gein farm draws crowds." Stevens Point Journal, March 24: 1.—. 1957. "Results of lie test announced." Stevens Point Journal, November 20: 1.—. 1954. "Woman's disappearance hints slaying at Pine Grove tavern." Stevens Point Journal, December 9: 1.United Press. 1957. "Hospital gets ready for Gein." Capital Times, November 23: 2.United Press International. 1968. "Ed Gein found guilty of 1957 murder in Plainfield." Capital Times, November 14: 2.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

When thirty-eight-year-old Steven Robards died unexpectedly in the winter of 1993, everyone including the coroner believed his death to have been the result of a heart attack—unusual for someone so young, but certainly not unheard of. It wasn’t until the following year, when Steven’s teenage daughter, Marie, was practicing for the school play, that the girl confessed the truth to her friend: Steven Robards didn’t die from a heart attack, he was murdered by his daughter with chemicals she’d stolen from the high school chemistry lab.In the United States, it’s exceedingly rare for a child to kill a parent, and rarer still for that child to be female. The truth about Steven Robards murder shocked the residents of the Fort Worth area and divided the community between those who were sympathetic to her claims of desperation and those who saw her as nothing more than a craven predator who’d do anything to get what she wanted. Indeed, Marie claimed she had only wanted to make her father sick so she could return to living with her mother, from whom she’d been separated since her parents’ divorce, and she had never wanted to kill him.Ultimately a jury didn’t buy Marie’s story and sentenced her to twenty-seven years in prison, of which she served only seven years before being paroled. Was Marie Robards really just a confused teenager who acted impulsive without regard for the consequences of her actions? Or was she really the calculating self-serving killer some believed her to be?Thank you to David White, of the Bring Me the Axe podcast, for research assistance!ReferencesBlaney, Betsy. 1997. "Trial near for NRH teen accused of killing father." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, August 17: 1.Cochran, Mike. 1996. "Ex-UT student headed for patricide trial." Austin American-Statesman, May 6: 11.—. 1996. "Teen says she didn't mean to kill dad." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 6: 1.Hanna, Bill, and Kathy Sanders. 1994. "Daughter appears in court." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, October 20: 21.Hollandsworth, Skip. 1996. "Poisoning Daddy." Texas Monthly, July 01.Hood County News. 1994. "City staff's reactions mixed on poison suspect's presence." Hood County News, November 2: 1.Vozzella, Laura. 1996. "Accused dreamed of being coroner, prosecutor says." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 8: 50.—. 1996. "Chemistry student gets 28-year term in father's death." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 11: 1.—. 1996. "Teen is found guilty of poisoning her father." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 10: 15.—. 1996. "Teacher says chemical hidden from police." Fort Worth Star-Telegraph, May 9: 21.2001. Forensic Files. Directed by David Wasser. Performed by David Wasser.Alaina's 2nd book in the Dr Wren Muller Series, THE BUTCHER GAME will be released on September 17th, 2024! To Pre-order go to (https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/) PLUS! If you preorder the book, get an autographed poster while supplies last by visiting (http://thebutchergame.com/)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On the evening of March 24, 1990, nearly one hundred patrons gathered to celebrate Carnivale at the Happy Land Social Club, a small informal night club in the Bronx that catered to a mostly Honduran clientele. The evening took a deadly turn when, around 3:30 am, an explosion of fire roared up the stairway leading to the second-floor club, blocking the only exit from the building and trapping the patrons in a room rapidly filling with toxic smoke and fire. It’s unknown how many patrons managed to escape the fire, but by the time the fire department had extinguished the blaze, eighty-seven people were dead.Thank you to the amazing Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesBarbanel, Josh. 1990. "Bronx social club's sublease: How a firetrap skirted the line." New York Times, March 28: B1.—. 1990. "Tracing the club's owners." New York Times, March 27: B2.Barron, James. 1990. "The living search the faces of the dead." New York Times, March 26.Blumenthal, Ralph. 1990. "Fire in the Bronx; 87 die in blaze at illegal club." New York Times, March 26.Gelman, Mitch, Alexis Jetter, and Beth Holland. 1990. "87 die in arson called act of spurned lover." Newsday, March 26: 3.Gilbert, Allison. 2020. "A faded tragedy's long shadow." New York Times, March 29.Golden, Tim. 1990. "In the saddest way, New York learns about Hondurans." New York Times, April 1.Hernandez, Raymond. 1995. "Survivors call settlement 'unjust'." New York Times, July 7.Hevesi, Dennis. 1992. "Guilty plea by landlord in fire case." New York Times, May 9.Hirsch, James. 1988. "Most social clubs run the gamut of illegality." New York Times, August 22.Kerr, Peter. 1986. "Social Clubs: Modern Mob still uses a few as offices." New York Times, April 15.Lambert, Bruce. 1991. "Confession tape on Bronx blaze is heard by jury." New York Times, August 1.Lorch, Donatella. 1991. "Ex-girlfriend recalls threat before flames." New York Times, July 31.—. 1991. "Witness tells of visit by Happy Land fire suspect." New York Times, July 31.Maykuth, Andrew. 1990. "N.Y. fire suspect described as 'down to his last hope'." Philadelphia Inquirer, 03 27: 1.McFadden, Robert. 1990. "The Knights of the Padlock Sweep Forth." New York Times, March 31.New York Times. 1990. "7 victims: their stories, struggles and dreams of better lives." New York Times, March 29.Nieves, Evelyn. 1991. "Refugee found guilty of killing 87 in Bronx Happy Land fire." New York Times, August 20.People of the State of New York v. Julio Gonzalez. 1995. 163 Misc. 2d 950 (New York Supreme Court, Bronx County, February 10).Purdy, Matthew. 1995. "More than five years after the arson fire at the Happy Land Social Club..." New York Times, July 7.Roberts, Sam. 2016. "Julio Gonzalez, arsonist who killed 87 at a nightclub in the Bronx, dies at 61." New York Times, September 15.Schanberg, Sydney. 1990. "Please, some respect for 87 who died." Newsday, April 13: 62.Stanley, Alessandra. 1991. "At Happy Land mass-murder trial, days of tears, humor and boredom." New York Times, July 28.Stanley, Allessandra. 1990. "25 years to life for the arsonist at Happy Land." New York Times, September 20.Strom, Stephanie. 1990. "Hispanic residents rally against closing of social clubs." New York Times, April 6.Terry, Don. 1990. "Social club crackdown is the latest in a series." New York Times, March 26: A1.Wichers, Christine. 1990. "Male violence the real cause of Bronx fire." New York Times, April 10.THE BUTCHER GAME will be released on September 17th, 2024! To Pre-order go to (https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/) PLUS! If you preorder the book, get an autographed poster while supplies last by visiting (http://thebutchergame.com/)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

BIG, BIG NEWS AHEAD!!!! We are SO excited to announce that The SEQUEL, yes, the 2nd book of The Dr. Wren Muller Series- THE BUTCHER GAME will be released on September 17th, 2024! To Pre-order go to https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/ (https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/) PLUS! If you preorder the book, get an autographed poster while supplies last by visiting thebutchergame.com (http://thebutchergame.com/) Also-- IT'S LISTENER TALES!!!!! And this month's episode is brought to you by gut feelings! In this episode, we hear about a ghostly visitor during an awkwardly intimate moment, a run in an elderly couple near an abandoned asylum, a portal to Marrakesh in a Weirdo's room, a UFO sighting on a beach, and a weird encounter with a car in a ditch!If you’ve got a listener tale please send it on over to [email protected] with “Listener Tales” somewhere in the subject line :)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The brutal murders of Ross, Brown, and Degnan shocked the city of Chicago and terrified and outraged the city’s residents, who wanted only to feel safe once again. Under intense pressure from the press, the public, and city officials, investigators were desperate to catch the killer and solve the case by any means necessary, even if they had to break more than a few rules and ignore some inconvenient facts in order to do it.Thank you to the incredible Dave white of Bring Me the Axe & 99 Cent Rental Podcast for research!ReferencesAmended Petition for Executive Clemency. 2002. C-06103 (Illinois Prisoner Review Board, April).Arizona Republic . 1946. "Defendant fails in plea to jury." Arizona Republic, June 20: 18.Banks, Joe. 1946. "Prisoner says he killed girl." Tucson Daily Citizen, June 26: 1.Chicago Tribune. 1946. "Police resift all clues in Degnan case." Chcago Tribune, January 12: 1.—. 1946. "2 rewards offered for 'execution' of girl's kidnap-slayer." Chicago Tribune, January 8: 2.—. 1946. "Call Heirens sane; today's plea in doubt." Chicago Tribune, September 4: 1.—. 1946. "Child stolen from her bed during the night." Chicago Tribune, January 8: 1.—. 1945. "Ex-WAVE slain, plea written in red on wall." Chicago Tribune, December 11: 1.—. 1946. "Handwriting similarity to killer's shown." Chicago Tribune, June 27: 1.—. 1946. "Heirens gets new grilling following 'futile' lie test." Chicago Tribune, July 1: 1.—. 1946. "Heirens made choice of plea, attorneys say." Chicago Tribune, August 7: 12.—. 1946. "Murders, assaults, thefts, shooting; Heirens' story." Chicago Tribune, August 7: 1.—. 1945. "Mystery grows in WAVE slaying." Chicago Tribune, December 12: 1.—. 1943. "Organize posse of tenants and catch prowler." Chicago Tribune, August 9: 18.—. 1946. "Repudiates his 'confession' in Degnan slaying." Chicago Tribune, June 29: 6.—. 1946. "Student held in Degnan case puzzles police." Chicago Tribune, June 29: 1.—. 1946. "Tubs in basement, saw and ax held best clews." Chicago Tribune, January 9: 1.—. 1946. "U.C. Sophomore, facing police quiz, fakes coma." Chicago Tribune, June 29: 1.—. 1946. "Use of serum in Heirens quiz still mystery." Chicago Tribune, July 1: 5.—. 1945. "Widow is found in home; suitor quizzed." Chicago Tribune, June 6: 10.Decatur Daily Review. 1946. "Chicago girl kidnapped; note demands $20,000." Decatur Daily Review, January 7: 1.—. 1946. "Janitors grilled in kidnap-death." Decatur Daily Review, January 9: 1.Decatur Herald. 1945. "Brutal WAVE slayer sought." Decatur Herald, December 12: 1.Higgins, Michael. 2007. "1940s killer denied parole." Chicago Tribune, August 3: 1.—. 2007. "Is 61 years in prison enough retribution." Chicago Tribune, July 29: 1.Kennedy, Dolores. 1991. William Heirens: His Day in Court. New York, NY: Bonus Books.New York Times. 1946. "Heirens confesses in no-chair deal." New York Times, August 7: 36.Pantagraph. 1945. "Former Wave found brutally slain in Chicago bathtub." Pantagraph, December 10: 1.People of the State of Illinois v William Heirens. 1954. 33165 (Supreme Court of Illinois, September 23).People of the State of Illinois v William Heirens. 1995. 1-90-2240 (Appellate Court of the State of Illinois, March 15).Priddy, Gladys. 1945. "Slain ex-WAVE a friend to all, roomate says." Chicago Tribune, December 14: 3.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

BIG, BIG NEWS AHEAD!!!! We are SO excited to announce that The SEQUEL, yes, the 2nd book of The Dr. Wren Muller Series will be released on September 17th, 2024! To Pre-order go to https://zandoprojects.com/books/the-butcher-game/ PLUS! If you preorder the book, get an autographed poster while supplies last by visiting thebutchergame.com.On June 5, 1945, forty-three-year-old Josephine Ross was found stabbed to death in her Chicago apartment. Nothing had been stolen from Ross’ apartment and it appeared as though there were ritualistic aspects to the murder, but with little evidence and no suspects, the case hit a dead end almost as soon as it started. Ross’ murder came to detectives’ minds six months later, when another Chicago woman, Frances Brown, was found murdered in her apartment. This time an ominous message was scrawled on the wall in red lipstick: “For heavens sake catch me before I kill more I cannot control myself.” The brutal nature of the two murders, and the implication that the killer would strike again, terrified the women of Chicago, and that fear was stoked by the city’s five major newspapers, who were in a daily battle for readers’ attention. The story reached a fever pitch just one month later when six-year-old Suzanne Degnan was abducted from her bedroom by someone who’d entered through an open window. Despite the presence of a ransom note demanding $20,000, investigators discovered Degnan’s dismembered body in the sewer a short time later.Thank you to the incredible Dave white of Bring Me the Axe & 99 Cent Rental Podcast for research!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sabrina & Corinne from Two Girls One Ghost join us on this week's episode to talk about the dark histories behind childhood nursery rhymes. Fresh off of our ghost hunting experience at the Lizzie Borden house, we talk about the childhood rhyme and where it went wrong, as well as talk about others that SEEMED so innocent! Don't forget to check the episode on the Two Girls One Ghost feed where we talk about our ghost hunting experiences! It was WILD! Thank you to the wonderful Dave White of Bring me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesBurton-Hill, Clemency. 2015. The dark side of nursery rhymes. June 10. Accessed February 6, 2024. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20150610-the-dark-side-of-nursery-rhymes.Hazlett, Lisa A. 2009. "The use of British nursery rhymes and contemporary technology as venues for creating and expressing hidden literacies throughout time by children, adolescents, and adults." Forum on Public Policy: A Journal of the Oxford Round Table. Opie, Iona, and Peter Opie. 1952. The Oxofrd Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press.Roberts, Chris. 2005. Heavy Words Lightly Thrown: The Reason Behind the Rhyme. Sheridan, WY: Gotham Books.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.