#452 - When Identity Becomes Critical Infrastructure with Shea McGrew

Bojan Simic, co-founder and CEO of HYPR, returns to Identity at the Center for a Sponsor Spotlight conversation with Jim McDonald. Bojan traces HYPR's path from passwordless authentication to a broader set of identity assurance controls and explains how assurance differs from verification across the full employee lifecycle. He describes what organizations find when they look for worker impersonators, from remote employees outsourcing their jobs to North Korean operatives, and why verification has to continue past day one. The conversation then turns to AI agents: why IAM teams are becoming the HR of AI, how agent identity differs from human identity, why humans can't manually govern agents at scale, and why securing MCP alone misses the full context of an agent's session. Bojan also covers what is slowing passwordless adoption, adaptive risk, alert fatigue, and how identity teams and the SOC can work together. This episode was made possible with support from HYPR.Connect with Bojan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bojansimicLearn more about HYPR: https://www.hypr.com/idacConnect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com00:10 Sponsor Spotlight intro and welcome back Bojan Simic02:36 HYPR's evolution from passwordless to identity assurance04:44 How the pace of identity projects has changed06:01 Agentic AI moves from theory to reality08:19 Identity assurance vs. identity verification10:02 Why workforce identity verification is on the rise13:01 AI-powered social engineering crosses language barriers14:30 Continuous verification beyond onboarding17:06 Balancing verification with user experience18:36 The business problem behind AI agent governance22:42 How agent identity differs from human identity24:50 Who owns agent identity? IAM as the HR of AI27:00 Governing agents at scale and keeping humans in the loop29:23 Why endpoint control matters for AI agents31:48 What securing MCP alone can miss33:20 Deterministic and probabilistic controls35:00 What is holding passwordless back37:26 Pilots and letting perfect be the enemy of good39:25 Advice for leaders on adaptive risk42:02 Signals that matter and avoiding alert fatigue43:36 Identity teams and the SOC45:53 Lighter note: early mornings in New York, family, and the Yankees50:36 Wrap-upIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Bojan Simic, HYPR, Sponsor Spotlight, identity assurance, identity verification, workforce identity verification, continuous verification, worker impersonation, North Korean IT workers, deepfakes, social engineering, help desk security, AI agents, agentic AI, agent identity, AI agent governance, non-human identity, NHI, MCP, Model Context Protocol, endpoint security, blast radius, least privilege, access reviews, passwordless, MFA, FIDO, adaptive risk, adaptive authentication, alert fatigue, SOC, identity threat detection, IAM

Eve Maler, founder of Venn Factory and author of Mastering Digital Identity, joins Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman for her tenth appearance on Identity at the Center. Eve shares what she has learned since the book came out, from writing for non-technical executives (and keeping AI out of the manuscript) to the strange places identity ends up on the org chart. The conversation covers treating identity as a product, why identity can be a business model in disguise, how CISOs can influence CIAM when they are not the boss of it, and the identity debt that AI is now calling due. Eve also explains why intent looks more like purpose of use than finer-grained authorization, how contract language can help frame agent mandates, what trust means to humans versus security teams, and the early work on UMA for Agents (U4A) to govern third-party agents through a resource-centric, protect surface mindset. The episode wraps with travel tips from all three frequent flyers.Connect with Eve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evemaler/Eve's book "Mastering Digital Identity" - https://masteringdigitalidentity.com/MyTerms: https://myterms.info/UMA for Agents: https://u4a.ai/Kwaai AI Lab - https://www.kwaai.ai/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00 Introduction and Eve's tenth appearance02:40 Life since publishing Mastering Digital Identity04:49 Writing for non-technical executives06:36 AI and the book writing process09:00 Identity as a product: feedback from leaders10:29 The strangest places identity lives on the org chart11:46 Metrics that work across functions13:40 Identity as a business model in disguise15:14 Identity's unhoused problem16:56 Who is accountable for identity?18:33 Security versus usability20:43 Is identity the product or part of the product?24:04 Normalizing product replacement25:53 CISOs, CIAM, and "You're Not the Boss of Them"28:03 Defining identity debt29:27 How AI exposes identity debt31:38 The organizational roots of identity debt32:52 What intent means for AI agents34:23 Poisoned intent and contracts as a model36:15 Laws of robotics and the policy stack39:21 MyTerms and IEEE 701240:04 Trust as a human word43:29 UMA for Agents and third-party agents47:27 The protect surface and what practitioners should consider51:10 U4A maturity and how to get involved53:43 Travel tips from frequent flyers1:02:10 Wrap upIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Eve Maler, Venn Factory, Mastering Digital Identity, identity as a product, identity product management, identity debt, technical debt, CIAM, customer identity, CISO, identity ownership, identity metrics, board-level identity, AI agents, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, intent, purpose of use, trust, zero trust, protect surface, UMA, User-Managed Access, UMA for Agents, U4A, third-party agents, MyTerms, IEEE 7012, Kwaai, consent phishing, phishing-resistant authentication, passkeys, NIST 800-63, IAM, identity and access management, travel tips

Shea McGrew, Chief Technology Officer at Maricopa County, returns to Identity at the Center one year after episode 376 to take on a question she first raised at our Identity After Dark session: when does digital identity become critical infrastructure? Jeff and Jim talk with Shea about how a county broadband and digital equity project led her to see digital trust as the thread running through every digital government service, and why that trust depends on identity. The conversation covers building an external identity portal for residents, designing for consent and privacy from the start, why residents extend trust to private platforms more readily than to government, the right to be forgotten, data governance across departments, and where decentralized identity and verifiable credentials might fit. Shea also shares her view on access reviews as a learning journey, what it would take to trust AI agents with certifications, and whether an agent could ever be considered a citizen. Plus, potatoes and the proper way to cut a sandwich.Connect with Shea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shea-mcgrew-6b82a36/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00 Welcome to Identity at the Center (or AI at the Center)02:19 How Jim and Jeff met, and how the podcast started04:09 Jeff's fall conference schedule06:39 Do you want IDAC content over the holidays?07:32 IDPro membership and introducing Shea McGrew08:15 Looking back at Identity After Dark10:44 Zero trust progress one year later12:04 From device identity to external identity and broadband16:04 What counts as critical infrastructure?19:00 External identity requirements in government21:04 The blast radius of identity failure23:06 If identity is critical infrastructure, who owns it?24:26 What other public sector leaders are saying26:40 One person, many identities28:40 How government earns resident trust32:37 Why not just copy Amazon?35:02 A right to be forgotten in the US?36:22 Governing data across department boundaries38:30 Decentralized identity and the ownership problem41:30 Tokenization and existing blockchains42:34 The digital trust umbrella45:56 Park passes versus benefits and courts49:19 Does an official designation unlock anything?51:03 Access reviews: security theater or essential?55:26 Would you trust AI agents with access reviews?58:36 Can an AI agent be a citizen?1:02:20 More questions than answers1:04:24 Lighter note: If you were a potato1:07:55 Bonus: How do you cut a sandwich?IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Shea McGrew, Maricopa County, critical infrastructure, digital identity, digital trust, public sector identity, government identity, external identity, CIAM, citizen identity, resident identity, digital services, broadband, digital equity, zero trust, device identity, IGA, access reviews, access certifications, consent, privacy, right to be forgotten, data governance, decentralized identity, verifiable credentials, blockchain, tokenization, identity assurance, AI agents, agentic identity, non-human identity, NHI, human in the loop, Identity After Dark, IAM, identity and access management

Alex Bovee, CEO and co-founder of C1.ai (formerly ConductorOne), returns for his third appearance on Identity at the Center. Alex walks Jim and Jeff through the rebrand to C1.ai and why the .ai matters: identity now covers humans, workloads, and agents. The conversation opens on launch week and the new App Hub, built around a question many CIOs and CISOs are facing. What happens when everyone in the company becomes a builder and vibe-coded apps start running critical workflows?From there, Alex frames the difference between humans, software, and agents using two dimensions, trustworthiness and determinism, and explains why agents that "goal max" call for runtime enforcement instead of relying only on after-the-fact reviews. He breaks down the Hugging Face breach, where an OpenAI agent under evaluation escaped its sandbox in pursuit of better eval results, and lays out six control points for agent security: identity, the harness, network egress, data and tools, the LLM gateway, and credentials.The group also covers why IGA fundamentals speed up AI adoption, three buckets of agents (SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity), agents evaluating other agents, governed swim lanes over shutting things down, and the slept-on problem of credentials sprawling across endpoints. Plus girl dads, boy families, and the return of the Royal Octopus.Made possible with support from C1. Learn more at c1.ai/idacConnect with Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbovee/Learn more about C1: https://www.c1.ai/idacConnect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com00:00 Intro00:33 Welcome back, Alex Bovee01:28 From ConductorOne to C1 and the .ai rebrand04:14 Launch week and the App Hub07:07 Farm-to-table software and the limits of off-the-shelf SaaS09:56 The real risks of vibe-coded apps12:52 Humans, software, and agents: trust and determinism17:10 UARs matter more for agents17:59 What happened in the Hugging Face breach21:23 Six control points for securing agents25:38 Where should teams focus first?31:33 Meeting customers where they are33:02 Why IGA basics come before AI adoption34:27 AI accelerates bad IAM35:45 Governance versus business speed37:51 SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity agents41:19 Runtime enforcement and agents evaluating agents44:22 Can you train an agent not to goal max?47:33 Governed swim lanes, not shutdowns50:33 Publishing a vibe-coded app through App Hub53:03 The slept-on credential problem56:04 Girl dads, boy families, and the Royal Octopus1:00:54 Wrap-upIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alex Bovee, C1, C1.ai, ConductorOne, Sponsor Spotlight, identity and access management, IAM, identity governance, IGA, AI agents, agentic AI, agentic enterprise, non-human identity, NHI, workload identity, machine identity, vibe coding, App Hub, Hugging Face breach, OpenAI, agent evals, goal maxing, runtime enforcement, runtime security, MCP, MCP gateway, LLM gateway, network egress, agent harness, just-in-time credentials, secrets management, shadow AI, user access reviews, UAR, joiner mover leaver, delegated authorization

Jeff flies solo for episode 450, joined by Alexis Bernthal, an associate on RSM's technology risk consulting team who found her way to the podcast through a corporate-wide email and a contact form submission that led to an invitation to Identiverse. They trace how Alexis went from failing a high school computer science class to finishing a CS degree, and how a topic on the show, role-based access, first put identity and access management on her radar. Alexis walks through what technology risk consulting looks like day to day, her first industry conference experience at Identiverse (including Identibeer, sessions on agentic identity and transaction tokens, and a Women in Identity gathering), and the blog she started at AlexisBernthal.com to document her own journey. The conversation turns to what it takes to bring more early-career people into identity: the perceived technical barrier, the value of mentorship and simply introducing yourself at conferences, and whether seniority is really a prerequisite (Jeff's own path started with programming parking lot lighting identities at Walgreens). They close things out with a browser tab hot take and a warning about what not to leave open during a screen share.Connect with Alexis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-bernthal/Visit her website: AlexisBernthal.comConnect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:10 - Introduction and upcoming conference schedule01:48 - Guest introduction: Alexis Bernthal02:10 - How Jeff and Alexis met and the podcast's origin story08:12 - How Alexis got into IT and landed at RSM11:02 - What technology risk consulting actually involves14:34 - A day in the life, plus RSM's Power of Love campaign17:15 - How identity first showed up on Alexis's radar18:48 - Identiverse: Alexis's first-ever conference21:31 - Enthusiasm, Identibeer, and standout sessions26:06 - AlexisBernthal.com and her own podcast with her dad28:35 - What surprised her most about IAM30:05 - Jeff's identity-as-a-language analogy37:49 - Breaking into IAM without a technical background41:21 - Learning by being in the room, plus IDAC's website Easter eggs46:23 - ID Pro, mentors, and shout-outs to the RSM digital identity team49:58 - What's holding the next generation back from IAM54:19 - Introducing yourself at conferences and meeting people where they are59:30 - Jeff's own accidental start in identity, programming parking lot lights1:04:00 - Luck, networking, and today's job market1:08:03 - Advice for new grads breaking into the field1:10:26 - Where Alexis sees her IAM journey heading1:12:59 - Lightning round: how many browser tabs is too many1:17:44 - A cautionary tale about screen sharing1:20:12 - Wrap-up and thank you'sIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alexis Bernthal, RSM, technology risk consulting, identity and access management, IAM, role-based access, Identiverse, Identibeer, ID Pro, agentic identity, transaction tokens, career development, mentorship, networking, early career, digital identity, authentication, authorization, single sign-on

George Fletcher joins Jeff Steadman and Sean O'Dell for a Decoded deep dive into transaction tokens (Txn-Tokens), the OAuth Working Group specification designed to secure requests as they move across microservices. George explains the problem transaction tokens solve: hop to hop security gaps, replayed access tokens, and the difficulty of tracking a single transaction across a graph of internal services. The conversation covers the anatomy of a transaction token, including the subject, audience, scope, and TXN claims, how a token's time to live should be scoped to the transaction itself, and why immutable parameters prevent tampering mid chain. George and Sean also explore how transaction tokens apply to AI agents and delegated authorization, referencing draft work on agent specific claims and cross domain trust. The episode closes with practical starting points for organizations of any size, including open source options and where to track the specification through the IETF OAuth Working Group.Resources mentioned in this episode:Transaction Tokens (base draft): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-oauth-transaction-tokens-11.htmlTransaction Token Chaining Profile (Cross Domain Trust): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-fletcher-transaction-token-chaining-profile-02.htmlTransaction Tokens for Agents: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-araut-oauth-transaction-tokens-for-agents-00.htmlTokenetes: https://tokenetes.io/OAuth Working Group: https://github.com/oauth-wgDecoded by Identity at the Center:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Sean O'Dell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanodentity/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:15 Introduction and catching up with Sean O'Dell01:25 Introducing today's topic, transaction tokens and zero trust02:26 George Fletcher joins the show02:41 George's path into identity, from AOL to the Liberty Alliance04:22 The problem that led to transaction tokens at Verizon Media09:01 What a transaction token is, in plain terms10:25 The specific problem transaction tokens solve11:43 Transaction tokens versus a short lived access token13:48 Delegated authorization, traceability, and the TXN claim22:04 How long a transaction token should live27:13 Local AI, vibe coding, and shrinking token lifetimes28:45 What is inside a transaction token, the core claims35:39 Call chains and the transaction context claim39:05 Applying transaction tokens to AI agents41:08 The transaction tokens for agents draft and the ACT claim43:37 Getting started with limited resources, open source options46:32 Scaling transaction tokens at a larger organization50:38 What transaction token nirvana looks like53:31 Whether this replaces a standard OAuth server55:59 Where to learn more, the IETF OAuth Working Group58:09 Cross domain trust and calling outside the enterprise1:01:38 Alternatives to transaction tokens and adoption incentives1:05:16 George's summary of the conversation1:07:26 Sean's closing thoughts and takeaways1:09:19 Wrap up and closeIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Sean O'Dell, George Fletcher, Practical Identity, transaction tokens, Txn-Token, OAuth, OAuth Working Group, zero trust, microservices, access tokens, JWT, authorization, delegated authorization, agentic identity, AI agents, call chain, token exchange, TXN claim, scope claim, Verizon Media, IETF, Keycloak, Tokenetties, cross domain trust, Decoded

Howard Ting, CEO of Opal Security, joins Jeff Steadman for a Sponsor Spotlight covering identity governance for both human and non-human identities. Howard traces his path through RSA Security, Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, and Cyberhaven before returning to identity to lead Opal. The conversation covers why disabling a departing employee's account rarely ends their access, the orphaned tokens, service accounts, and agents left behind, and why visibility has to come before ownership and risk analysis. Howard and Jeff dig into agent intent and authority: whether an agent can declare its own intent, why permissions should stay a subset of what its human creator holds, and how narrowly scoped, single-task agents make governance easier. They also cover how Opal matches AI decision capacity to a growing volume of access requests, including how the company's Paladin AI supports approvers and campaign creators today. The episode closes with Opal's announcement of a unified platform for governing human, non-human, and agent identities together, extending Paladin's decisioning to agents and introducing Policy Insights to help security teams balance friction against risk. Howard shares his view that identity has to shift from an episodic, event-driven practice to a continuous one, along with a lighthearted detour into 90s video games.Connect with Howard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardting/Learn more about Opal Security: https://www.opal.dev/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com00:10 Intro and welcome01:01 Howard's identity origin story: RSA, Microsoft, Kim Cameron02:48 What Opal does: unified control plane for human and non-human identities04:16 The opal.dev domain and how Opal got its name06:42 Termination and lifecycle: why access doesn't fully go away09:33 Session management and orphaned accounts13:57 Visibility as the first step in identity governance17:31 Can an agent declare its own intent?20:29 Authority: should an agent ever exceed its creator's permissions?22:12 Inside Opal: Risk Center and Policy Insights25:41 How Opal connects to systems and collects usage data27:30 Cross-application segregation of duties29:06 Zero standing privilege and AI managing AI32:12 Building trust in AI-driven access decisions39:00 Announcing Opal's unified platform for agents and non-human identities44:18 Explainability and traceability in Paladin's decisions48:54 Tuning risk tolerance and autonomy in Paladin51:20 Proving value: demos, POCs, and industry skepticism57:47 The shift from episodic to continuous identity59:50 Lightning round: favorite 90s video gamesIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Howard Ting, Opal Security, Sponsor Spotlight, identity governance administration, IGA, non-human identity, NHI, agent identity, agentic AI, access governance, least privilege, just-in-time access, JIT, zero standing privilege, Paladin, Risk Center, Policy Insights, segregation of duties, SOD, RSA Security, Microsoft, Kim Cameron, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, Cyberhaven, continuous identity, identity lifecycle management, orphaned accounts, service accounts, API keys, intent-based access control

Jeff Steadman sits down with Andi Hindle, conference chair for Authenticate 2026, for a preview of this year's event. Making his seventh appearance on the show, Andi walks through how Authenticate has evolved since its founding alongside Identiverse and outlines six major topic areas shaping the 2026 agenda, including passkeys in practice, regulatory pressures, security and standards architecture, digital identity wallets, and non-human authentication. The conversation moves into hardware-based identity for retail and industrial settings, age verification challenges, and a detour into 3D printing and supply chain assurance. Jeff and Andi dig into continuous identity and zero standing privilege, the shift toward non-human traffic dominating infrastructure requests, and how agentic AI is forcing organizations to rethink authorization and human-in-the-loop decisions. They close with privacy and consent questions for non-human identities, thoughts on where authentication and authorization standards are headed, and a lighter look at Authenticate team traditions and sci-fi recommendations.Connect with Andi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahindle/Impact of GDPR on Identity and Access Management by Andi Hindle: https://bok.idpro.org/article/id/24/Learn more about FIDO Authenticate 2026: https://authenticatecon.com/event/authenticate-u-s-2026/Non-FIDO members can use the code IDAC15 to save 15% on their in-person conference pass.Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:10 - Introduction and discount code rundown for upcoming conferences01:10 - Andi Hindle returns for his seventh appearance01:29 - Favorite episode banter and the running Andrew Shikiar joke03:08 - Origins of Authenticate and its relationship with Identiverse09:01 - Passkeys are solved, so what comes next09:53 - Lessons learned building the Authenticate agenda12:59 - The scale of effort behind running Authenticate15:29 - Adjacent topics expanding beyond the core passkeys mission16:09 - Six major topic areas planned for Authenticate 202622:13 - Identity as the foundation for everything digital23:14 - Hardware identity and non-human authentication24:53 - Retail tokens, badges, and age verification use cases28:36 - Replacing things only when the replacement is actually better29:41 - A detour into 3D printing and personal satisfaction31:39 - 3D printing, supply chain assurance, and identity problems36:38 - Introducing continuous identity37:28 - Zero standing privilege and why it matters now40:46 - The human user as the infrastructure edge case45:16 - Speed, scale, and the limits of human in the loop46:11 - Setting red lines for agentic risk50:56 - Privacy and consent questions for non-human identities56:51 - Anonymization, data logging, and GDPR parallels59:51 - A GDPR and IAM resource from the IDPro Body of Knowledge1:00:26 - What Authenticate topics might look like three years out1:04:59 - Why accounts may not make sense for agents1:06:49 - Authorization as the next hard problem to solve1:08:20 - Inside jokes from the Authenticate organizing team1:09:30 - The story behind Andi's favorite Britishism1:10:38 - Book and media recommendations1:14:39 - Closing thoughts and sign-offIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Andi Hindle, Authenticate 2026, FIDO Alliance, passkeys, identity verification, identity wallets, continuous identity, zero standing privilege, agentic identity, non-human identity, authorization, shared signals, GDPR, IDPro, Identiverse, age verification, hardware authentication

Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles, joins Jim and Jeff to talk about how he went from leading a data team to holding both the CIO and CISO seats at a global manufacturing company. Rick shares the moment that pulled him into security, how his tight-knit Charlotte cyber community shapes his thinking, and how he balances speed and control when the two roles pull in different directions. The conversation moves into identity for the age of AI agents: whether an agent is a human or non-human identity (Rick argues it's neither), who should own accountability when something goes wrong, and how session termination has to extend beyond turning off an account. Rick also digs into shadow AI, the real cost of tokens versus flat-rate licenses, and how he evaluates new identity technology against his organization's size and risk appetite. The episode closes with what excites and concerns him most about AI over the next three to five years, his advice for identity practitioners, and a lighter look at hobbies people wouldn't expect.Connect with Rick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickscot/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00 - Intro and community shoutouts07:06 - Introducing Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles07:46 - How Rick got into cybersecurity09:22 - Charlotte's tight-knit cyber community11:18 - The moment that made security the focus13:06 - Balancing the CIO and CISO roles16:17 - What "Identity at the Center" means to Rick19:26 - Where to start when building an IAM program23:29 - Balancing risk and innovation with AI27:46 - Who should own accountability for an AI agent29:38 - A hierarchy for agent identities33:31 - Terminating access and sessions, not just accounts36:25 - Dealing with shadow AI41:37 - Standing up a governance process for new AI projects43:19 - Evaluating new identity technology and token costs48:51 - Training and governance around AI usage52:22 - Established vendors versus disruptive startups56:56 - Looking three to five years ahead1:00:20 - Advice for identity practitioners1:01:41 - Lightning round: hobbies and surprises1:08:40 - Closing and where to find RickIDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Rick Scot, Elevate Textiles, CIO, CISO, identity and access management, IAM program, identity governance, AI agents, non-human identity, agentic identity, shadow AI, session management, offboarding, token costs, Charlotte cybersecurity community, identity leadership

Jim McDonald hosts this Sponsor Spotlight episode of Identity at the Center, made possible with support from Twine Security. Jim is joined by Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security and previously co-founder and CTO of Claroty. Benny shares how his cybersecurity background led him into identity and explains the concept of the "execution gap," the space where identity teams are accountable for outcomes but lack the full business context to act on their own. The conversation explores Twine Security's AI digital employee, Alex, and how it differs from traditional automation and RPA, where AI-driven execution fits best within identity operations today, and the balance between the parts of a task AI can handle easily versus the harder remaining work. Benny and Jim also dig into governance and trust, including why least privilege matters even more for AI agents and non-human identities, how organizations typically start with read-only access before expanding permissions, and how access reviews and recertification could evolve as AI takes on more of the process. They close with reflections on measuring success, how the identity practitioner's role changes as more execution shifts to AI, and a lighter round on what a personal AI digital employee might look like.Connect with Benny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennyporat/Learn more about Twine Security: https://www.twinesecurity.com/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com00:00 - Introduction and welcoming Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security00:52 - How Benny found his way into identity and access management02:21 - The origin of the name Twine03:28 - Defining the IAM execution gap05:53 - AI digital employees versus RPA and automation08:07 - Where AI digital employees are best suited today09:45 - Why AI is strong at eighty percent and what makes the rest difficult14:45 - Where a digital employee like Alex fits within identity operations18:43 - Trust, governance, and giving AI agents the right permissions21:42 - Applying least privilege to AI agents and non-human identities25:19 - How organizations start using Alex, from read-only to full execution30:27 - Rethinking the role of access reviews with AI involved33:14 - Measuring efficiency gains and revocation rate improvements36:00 - Addressing concerns about AI replacing IAM practitioners39:12 - How customers define and measure success44:15 - How the practitioner's day-to-day role changes with AI agents47:12 - Closing thoughts and where to learn more47:37 - Lighter note: imagining a personal AI digital employeeKeywords: IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Benny Porat, Twine Security, Sponsor Spotlight, AI digital employee, Alex, identity and access management, IAM, execution gap, least privilege, access reviews, recertification, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, Claroty, IGA, PAM, governance, human in the loop