Excess Returns

Cameron Dawson and Dave Nadig join Matt Zeigler on Click Beta to explore how sports betting, leveraged ETFs and speculative behavior are blurring the line between gambling and investing. They also examine AI circular financing, hyperscaler cash flow and corporate disclosure, asking what investors might be missing beneath headline earnings. The conversation closes with baseball, music fandom and the challenge of learning from imperfect role models.Subscribe to Click Beta on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to Click Beta on Apple PodcastsTopics covered:Why sports betting is becoming a financial planning issue for Gen Z and wealthy familiesHow overconfidence and confusion between skill and luck encourage speculative behaviorWhy rapid market recoveries may reinforce risk-taking instead of teaching cautionHow recurring gambling losses can quietly undermine savings and wealth accumulationThe risks of placing gambling products alongside investments in brokerage appsLeveraged ETF innovation, hourly resets and competing approaches to investor protectionAI circular financing, payment terms, leases and opaque special purpose vehiclesHow one-time investment gains can distort headline earnings and future growth comparisonsWhy less frequent corporate reporting could favor investors with greater resourcesBaseball, emo music, Nirvana merchandise and what makes a meaningful role modelTimestamps:00:00 Sports betting, ETFs and the gambling economy05:24 Financial planning after crypto and gambling wins10:57 Why slow gambling losses can be harder to recognize16:55 Betting inside brokerage apps and regulatory backlash21:03 Gambling budgets and the next wave of leveraged ETFs25:04 AI financial shenanigans and hyperscaler cash flow29:25 Who benefits from less corporate disclosure?34:24 Discovering new passions in adulthood: Westerns and baseball38:30 Hot Topic, Nirvana sweatpants and cultural gatekeeping43:17 Can band merchandise introduce a new generation to music?47:26 Keith Morris and the search for meaningful role models51:34 Learning from imperfect people without idolizing themLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Dan Niles joins Excess Returns to explain why he believes AI is a genuine industrial revolution and a bubble at the same time, with significant opportunity still ahead but growing risks in semiconductors, software, AI CapEx and credit markets. We discuss NVIDIA, OpenAI, Anthropic, China’s semiconductor push, data center politics, AI debt issuance, Fed policy and the downside protection framework Dan uses to navigate technology cycles.Dan Niles on Xhttps://x.com/DanielTNilesNiles Investment Managementhttps://www.nilesinvestmentmanagement.comTopics covered:Why AI can be both a transformational technology and an investment bubbleThe AI metrics Dan watches: token pricing, token growth, cloud revenue and operating marginsWhat the Situational Awareness unwind showed about leverage, forced selling and semiconductor volatilityWhy hyperscaler AI revenue can accelerate even as free cash flow deterioratesHow data center opposition, electricity constraints and politics could slow the AI buildoutWhere value may accrue across the AI stack and why Anthropic and Google could pressure OpenAIWhy China’s memory chip expansion could bring semiconductor cyclicality back faster than investors expectHow AI is reshaping software, including security, systems of record, gaming and usage-based pricingWhy the shift from free cash flow to debt financing matters for AI CapEx, Treasury yields and credit marketsDan’s long-short investment process, Fed outlook, market risk framework and emphasis on downside protectionTimestamps:00:00 Intro04:00 The signals Dan watches to know when the AI bubble is peaking09:12 AI ROI, hyperscaler profits and the problem with negative free cash flow14:19 Why data center politics could become a major risk to AI growth21:28 Why semiconductors are still cyclical and China could change the supply picture25:47 Why smart companies still get bubbles wrong and agentic AI could extend the cycle30:43 Is software the next major casualty of AI disruption?35:04 Why video games may be one of software’s safer AI categories39:23 Can markets absorb the surge in AI debt and equity issuance?45:28 Dan Niles’ long-short investment process and approach to downside protection50:45 Why Dan thinks the Fed could raise rates in September56:38 Why buy-and-hold can fail and downside protection mattersLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Ben Hunt joins Matt Zeigler to explain why damaged Fed and Treasury credibility could matter just as four major risks converge across private credit, AI financing, oil and the consumer. They discuss financial repression, rising long-term rates, shadow banking and insurance risk, the AI CapEx growth engine, and why Hunt believes gold may benefit if policymakers keep trying to suppress the price of money.Subscribe on Spotify⁠⁠Subscribe on AppleTopics coveredWhy credibility is a teacup and why policy reputation is difficult to repair once it breaksHow the Fed's July rate decision changed the market narrative around inflation credibilityThe Four Horsemen: insurance and shadow banking losses, capital crowding out, the Iran war and oil inflation, and a stretched consumerWhy insurer-funded private credit could become a systemic risk if fraud and losses reach major institutionsHow government borrowing and AI data center financing could push long-term interest rates higherWhy fading fiscal stimulus, depleted savings and higher energy costs leave the consumer vulnerableWhat financial repression means and how the Fed and Treasury could try to cap rates and prevent major lossesWhy AI investment may be the key source of US economic growth if consumer activity stallsHow Perscient tracks narrative regimes, virality and shifts in common knowledge across marketsWhy gold can act as an inverse measure of trust in central banks and how Ben is positioning around the risksTimestamps00:00 Intro: Credibility is a Teacup04:00 How the July Fed decision damaged inflation credibility08:21 The Four Horsemen that could threaten the financial system14:00 Oil inflation, the Iran war and a stretched consumer18:39 What financial repression means23:20 How the Fed and Treasury could try to prevent a systemic crisis28:21 Why AI CapEx may be the only major source of GDP growth35:00 When lost Fed credibility became a confirmed market narrative39:34 Narrative stock versus flow and how bursts can move prices44:00 The return of bearish AI CapEx narratives48:09 Why private credit may be easier to can-kick than the 2008 crisisLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

This month on Last Call, Kevin Muir, Aahan Menon, Ben Hunt and Brent Kochuba break down the market through four lenses: macro, inflation data, narrative and options positioning. They examine whether midterm election volatility is underpriced, why inflation may be more demand-driven and persistent than headline data suggests, how the Fed's credibility has shifted under Kevin Warsh, and why options markets still look remarkably complacent.Follow Last Call on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Last Call on Apple Podcasts⁠Topics coveredWhy ending Fed forward guidance could create more uncertainty around interest rate decisionsKevin Muir's case that midterm election volatility is unusually cheapWhy seasonal volatility, low implied correlation and election risk may favor owning protectionAahan Menon on inflation breadth and why 70 to 80 percent of PCE components are above the Fed's 2 percent targetWhy demand-driven inflation may be stickier than supply-driven inflationHow oil shocks can feed into core inflation and increase pressure on the Fed to hikeBen Hunt on the sudden collapse in the Fed credibility narrative and why gold has respondedThe four risks facing the Fed and Treasury: oil, fading fiscal stimulus, insurance and private credit stress, and the long end of the Treasury curveBrent Kochuba on why implied volatility and put positioning show a market with very little fearNvidia options positioning, potential resistance near 250 to 275, and what dealer gamma says about the stockStanley Druckenmiller's AI-written Wall Street Journal op-ed and what AI-assisted writing means for investment thinkingTimestamps00:00 Midterms, inflation, Fed credibility and options complacency07:45 Kevin Muir on why midterm volatility may be underpriced11:55 Why this midterm could be more volatile than the options market expects16:36 Cheap volatility and how election risk could get repriced20:39 Inflation breadth and why the headline numbers miss the bigger problem25:43 Why cooling inflation data may hide persistent demand-driven pressure33:31 Ben Hunt on why the Fed credibility narrative suddenly reversed40:01 Four risks the Fed and Treasury cannot afford to ignore44:43 What the options market says after Jackson Hole49:10 Why Fed events can become an expensive options tax53:14 Why falling volatility could help stocks push toward new highs57:34 Druckenmiller, AI-written investment commentary and authenticity01:01:53 Why writing is part of thinking in an AI worldLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Kevin Muir of The MacroTourist joins Matt Zeigler to break down the bond market, Scott Bessent's Treasury buybacks, the Treasury General Account, AI-driven earnings growth, leveraged ETF risk, gold and the U.S.-Canada trade fight. Kevin explains why rising long-term yields may be less surprising than investors think, how the AI capex boom can inflate earnings before costs show up, and why leveraged ETFs and policy uncertainty could make markets more fragile.Kevin Muir on Xhttps://x.com/kevinmuirThe MacroTouristhttps://themacrotourist.comTopics coveredWhy stronger nominal GDP, large fiscal deficits and record corporate issuance are pressuring long-term Treasury yieldsHow Scott Bessent's Treasury liquidity buybacks work and why investors are comparing them with QE and Operation TwistHow replacing long-dated Treasuries with T-bills could ultimately force reserve management purchases by the Federal ReserveWhy the Treasury General Account matters for liquidity and why attempts to manage the yield curve can distort market signalsJim Chanos's "earnings bubble" argument and how massive AI data-center capex can boost current earnings while costs are amortizedWhy stock prices can fall before forward earnings estimates roll over, and why retail investors may have an advantage over institutionsHow daily-reset leveraged ETFs create reflexive buying and selling and could amplify a semiconductor or single-stock selloffWhy Kevin is bullish on gold again, the role of People's Bank of China demand, and how he combines fundamentals with technical signalsWhy platinum below production cost caught his attention and what rolling mini-bubbles in gold, silver and AI say about investor psychologyWhat 2025 U.S.-Canada trade data says about autos, oil and gas, manufacturing, tariffs and the economic cost of policy uncertaintyTimestamps00:00 Intro06:31 Scott Bessent's Treasury buybacks and the bond market10:39 How T-bill issuance could lead to debt monetization18:25 The AI capex boom and the "earnings bubble"22:27 The giant bet embedded in accelerating AI earnings27:37 Why leveraged ETFs are changing market structure32:00 How forced ETF unwinds can amplify a selloff36:41 Why Kevin is bullish on gold again41:57 Platinum, production costs and the precious metals trade46:08 Sentiment extremes and why popular trades get dangerous51:00 Globalization, manufacturing and America's distribution problem55:00 Why oil and gas dominate the U.S.-Canada trade deficit59:00 How tariff uncertainty can deter U.S. manufacturing investment01:03:10 The trade math Kevin wants investors to seeLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Dan Rasmussen, founder and managing partner of Verdad Advisers and author of The Humble Investor, joins Kai Wu to examine the unraveling of private equity, the rise of private credit, and how AI is reshaping software, labor, and the economics of technology investing. They also explore the massive AI CapEx boom, why value investing has struggled in the intangible-heavy U.S. market, the unusual opportunity in Japanese small caps, and how investors can quantify intangible value in biotech.Subscribe on Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe on AppleTopics covered:Why private equity became a consensus trade and why exits are now cloggedHow leverage and high debt costs threaten private equity returnsWhat publicly traded private equity funds reveal about true volatility and NAV discountsHow private equity shifted from old-economy buyouts into software and healthcare technologyWhy AI may have erased code as a software moat while strengthening other intangible advantagesHow ARR lending helped private credit finance software buyouts and created an obsolescence mismatchWhat AI is doing to hiring, junior roles, productivity and the composition of workWhy the AI CapEx boom may be a crowded, path-dependent overinvestment cycleWhy traditional value metrics work better in Japan than in the intangible-heavy U.S.How Tokyo Stock Exchange reforms, buybacks and dividends can unlock value in Japanese small capsHow R&D spend, specialist ownership and short interest can help quantify biotech valueTimestamps:00:00 Intro04:03 Why private equity's debt burden changes the equity math09:24 How private equity became a software momentum trade13:29 Why code may no longer be a durable software moat17:48 How private credit enabled software buyouts through ARR lending23:56 AI productivity, jobs and why displacement is slower than expected30:23 Why the AI CapEx boom may be the market's most crowded risk34:29 Rational overinvestment, leverage and the timing risk in AI38:46 Why consumers may capture more of AI's value than investors44:07 Japan's below-book-value reform and the return of old-school value51:03 Quantifying biotech value with R&D, specialist ownership and short interest55:08 Dan's non-consensus views on private markets and JapanLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Ian Cassel, founder of MicroCapClub and author of Stock Picker, joins Matt Zeigler to break down the mindset, temperament and core skills required to outperform as an active stock picker. They discuss microcap investing, position sizing, active patience, valuation, management quality, portfolio survival, benchmarking against the S&P 500 and how great investors evolve their edge over decades.Stock Picker: How to Develop the Mindset, Temperament, and Strategy to Outperform Wall Streethttps://amzn.to/4hU28ImTopics coveredHow an investor's motivations change as ambition gives way to family, legacy and the scarcity of timeHow Ian turned $20,000 into $120,000, then watched it fall to $8,000, and why that early win permanently shaped his risk toleranceIan's four-part survival framework: recession-resistant growth, strong balance sheets, conservative valuation and signs of intelligent fanaticismWhy balance-sheet strength is not just defensive and can let great companies act aggressively when competitors are forced to retreatWhy Ian targets roughly a 25 percent CAGR without relying on multiple expansionThe Judas goat lesson, talking your book on social media and why investors still have to do their own workWhy comparing short-term returns can corrupt an investing process and why Ian measures himself against the S&P 500 over a 10-year horizonThe five core stock-picking skills: identifying, analyzing, buying, selling and holding, plus why selling matters especially in microcapsWhy position sizing should account for initial excitement, and why Ian now starts much smaller than he did earlier in his careerActive patience, expanding your circle of competence and the difference between good, great and GOAT stock pickersWhy temperament evolves with experience, why leverage can destroy otherwise good investing, and why the best investors keep sharpening their edgeWhy Ian is willing to back repeat-winner management teams before every piece of the business is fully in placeTimestamps00:00 Intro06:58 The $20,000 to $120,000 win and 90 percent loss11:02 Ian Cassel's four-part survival framework15:02 Why strong balance sheets create offensive optionality19:03 The Judas goat and social media stock promotion23:18 Why comparison is the enemy for stock pickers29:39 The five core stock-picking skills34:43 Active patience and knowing what you are looking for39:28 Good, great and GOAT stock pickers47:02 How investor temperament evolves over time52:03 Leverage, situational awareness and surviving to compound57:24 Betting on repeat-winner management before the numbers arriveLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Liz Ann Sonders, Chief Investment Strategist at Charles Schwab, joins us to explain why today's economy and stock market are increasingly defined by rotation, instability and a changing stock-bond relationship. We discuss AI capital spending and earnings concentration, Treasury yields and the deficit, immigration and labor supply, investor sentiment, market breadth, portfolio rebalancing, IPOs and the growing economic importance of the stock market wealth effect.Topics covered:Why the post-pandemic economy is moving through sector-level recessions and expansions instead of a traditional linear cycleThe return of a more temperamental market regime, inflation volatility and the changing correlation between stocks and bondsWhy volatility-based rebalancing may matter more than calendar-based rebalancing and why market leadership is broadeningImmigration, labor shortages and why slower population growth changes how investors should interpret payroll dataFederal deficits, entitlement spending, rising 30-year Treasury yields and why Treasury intervention cannot solve the underlying fundamentalsHow the AI spending boom, imports and hyperscaler capital expenditures are affecting GDP, bond issuance and capital marketsCorporate profits versus labor compensation and why Liz Ann does not see an obvious near-term catalyst for convergenceKevin Warsh, reduced Fed guidance and why less communication could create more market uncertaintyAttitudinal versus behavioral investor sentiment, the vibe session and why sentiment is becoming harder to use as a timing signalThe AI cascade beyond mega-cap tech, the Neural Nine, small caps and why rotation may be the new momentum tradeMargin debt, record household equity exposure and the risk that a future stock market decline feeds back into the economyS&P 500 earnings concentration, sell-side versus buy-side expectations, AI depreciation risk and the return of a major IPO cycleTimestamps:00:00 Liz Ann Sonders on the unusual 2026 market and economic cycle05:49 Portfolio construction, diversification and volatility-based rebalancing11:39 Immigration, labor supply and the new payroll breakeven rate17:38 Why long-term Treasury yields are rising and what the Treasury can and cannot fix22:07 Corporate profits versus labor compensation as a share of GDP27:37 Attitudinal versus behavioral sentiment and lessons from 202232:13 The vibe session, consumer confidence and conflicting investor expectations37:14 The Neural Nine, widening stock dispersion and rotation as the new momentum41:21 Margin debt, leveraged speculation and where the real risk may be45:52 S&P 500 earnings growth, concentration and the sell-side versus buy-side gap50:27 Hyperscaler AI capex, debt financing and signals from the corporate bond market55:05 IPOs, FOMO and why investors should be careful about chasing new issues60:05 Where to follow the real Liz Ann Sonders and avoid impersonator scamsLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Andy Constan is back on First Principles to explain why record stock prices, rising long-term Treasury yields and sticky inflation can all coexist, and why the next major market risk may come from the financing behind the AI CapEx boom rather than the eventual return on that investment. We discuss Kevin Warsh and Fed balance sheet policy, Treasury issuance and the quarterly refunding announcement, corporate bond and equity supply, Nvidia's $500 billion financing structure, and Andy's "not enough pie" framework for comparing AI earnings expectations with GDP and productivity growth.Follow First Principles on Spotify⁠⁠Follow First Principles of Apple PodcastsTopics coveredWhy rising long-term interest rates can be consistent with strong economic growth and record stock pricesWhy Andy does not see higher government interest costs creating an imminent U.S. debt crisisThe "script to kill inflation" and why reducing the wealth effect may require lower stock, bond and asset pricesHow the Fed, Treasury and other policymakers have suppressed long-term interest rates and risk premiumsWhy Kevin Warsh's comments about the Fed balance sheet and letting the bond market "do the work" could signal a policy shiftHow Treasury bill issuance, coupon issuance and the quarterly refunding announcement can affect stocks, bonds and financial conditionsWhy the AI CapEx boom is shifting from cash flow funding toward massive corporate debt and equity issuanceAndy's "hamburger thesis" and why the ability to finance AI infrastructure may matter before anyone knows the ultimate AI ROIWhy capital markets can suddenly close after issuance booms and what that could mean for the AI investment cycleHow Nvidia's $500 billion financing structure expands the pool of capital available to data center projectsThe "not enough pie" problem: why projected corporate earnings may require extraordinary GDP growth, productivity gains or a larger corporate share of the economyWhat Andy watches in new stock and bond deals for signs that investors are becoming unwilling to absorb more supplyTimestamps00:00:08 Why stocks, long-term yields and inflation can all rise together00:07:18 The "script to kill inflation" and why short-term rates may not be enough00:12:48 How policymakers have suppressed long-term interest rates00:16:53 The Warsh "drumbeat" and a possible shift in Fed balance sheet policy00:21:56 Why markets may be underestimating Warsh's willingness to fight inflation00:26:27 Treasury bills versus coupons and the limits of current financing policy00:31:33 The "hamburger thesis" behind the massive AI CapEx funding shift00:38:41 Why AI financing may matter more than AI ROI in the short run00:42:55 Breaking down Nvidia's $500 billion data center financing structure00:47:51 The "not enough pie" problem for AI earnings and economic growth00:52:03 Demographics, productivity and the limits on future GDP growth00:56:14 What issuance prices reveal about capital market stressLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.

Bob Robotti, founder and CIO of Robotti & Company, joins Matt Zeigler and Bogumil Baranowski to explain why bottom-up value investing may be entering one of its best opportunity sets in decades. They discuss AI and reindustrialization, inflation and interest rates, passive investing, capital cycles, private equity, long-term ownership, and why today's neglected industrial businesses may offer opportunities that the market is missing.Bob Robotti on Xhttps://x.com/BobRobottiRobotti & Companyhttps://www.robotti.comTopics coveredHow Bob finds misunderstood businesses with latent earnings powerWhy his "grassroots macro" process starts with company-level supply and demandHow AI spending is increasing demand for energy, copper, aluminum, cement and other physical assetsWhy North America's natural gas advantage could support a long-term reindustrialization cycleWhy persistent inflation could force higher interest rates and lower valuation multiplesWhy no competitive moat is permanent, even for today's dominant technology companiesHow passive investing and shorter time horizons can create opportunities for fundamental stock pickersWhy prolonged downturns can improve industry economics through consolidation and reduced capacityWhy Bob views himself as an active owner rather than an activist investorWhy he is skeptical of today's private equity model and its expansion into retirement portfoliosThe NewMarket investment that taught him the cost of selling a great business too earlyWhy he thinks individual company research can outperform indexing over the next decadeTimestamps00:00 Intro04:02 Grassroots macro and the search for latent earnings power08:37 Why Bob started his own investment firm13:00 How AI creates demand for the physical economy17:59 Why Bob avoids the mega-cap technology companies22:00 Inflation, interest rates and the valuation risk investors may be missing26:07 Why no competitive moat is permanent31:36 How passive investing creates opportunities for stock pickers36:00 Why Bob believes the "fallen" areas of the market can rise again40:06 How bad business conditions create better long-term investments44:39 Active ownership, boards and understanding businesses from the inside48:59 Why Bob is skeptical of modern private equity55:15 The biggest loss of his career: selling a winner too early01:03:32 The one investing lesson Bob would teach everyoneLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.