Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast

Dr. Nika Spaulding Sharifa Stevens Dr. Nika Spaulding tackles the question, does God hate? You'll find this conversation with Sharifa Stevens a must listen (or watch) if you've ever wondered about the references in the Bible that say God hates something. Recommended resources: BOW's resources on Studying & Teaching the Bible Other BOW Podcast episodes from Dr. Nika Spaulding.> This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:46 Verses that make us wonder if God hates and so should we also hate? 06:19 How does a Christian navigate and apply this? 11:42 How do we deal with passages when God says to wipe out people? 14:10 How does Jesus help us understand the rest of the Bible? 19:27 Example of God's enemies in the Bible 21:22 How do we course correct from fomenting hate? 28:29 Loving the sinner, hating the sin 33:16 Other resources TranscriptSharifa >> Hello and welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. I'll be your host, Sharifa Stevens, and I am thrilled to be talking to Dr. Nika Spaulding. (I love saying, doctor.) Nika >> Yeah, that is true, I suppose. It catches me off guard every time. Kay called me that the last time, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I did do that, I guess. Yeah. All right.” Sharifa >> Yeah, you did that. And it is my absolute joy to use the honorific with all of my friends who have earned it. Nika >> Thank you, friend. Sharifa >> Today I have the honor of interviewing Dr. Nika Spaulding. And I want to tell you a little bit about her. Nika Spaulding is a proud graduate of both the University of Oklahoma with a Bachelor's in Zoology, and Dallas Theological Seminary with a Masters of Theology. She recently completed her Doctorate of Ministry from Northern Seminary, focusing on the background context of the New Testament. She currently works as an editor for a nonprofit organization that helps people better understand their Bibles. You can follow or connect with Dr. Nika at her website, NikaSpaulding.com or her Substack account at NikaSpaulding. She believes in her bones that God loves you. And that's a wonderful last line. Nika>> Yes. It's so true. Sharifa >> Today our topic is about hate. Nika >> Yeah. Sharifa >> So we have all heard “hate the sin, love the sinner” or some such tome. So this phrase I want to talk about is this helpful for the Christian? Is it even a proverb from the Bible? Is God teaching us to hate? This is our topic for today and I would just like to jump in. Nika >> Yeah. Sharifa >> So my first question for you, doctor, is where does this phrase come from? Nika >> Yeah, that's a really good question. So I want to say there are there seems to be some wisdom literature in the Proverbs and something where you could maybe deduce some sort of like saying like this, like this doesn't come from the Bible, but maybe you could take some passages and make a corollary. What's interesting is some people accredited it to an old theologian Augustine and he wrote in one of his works, he says, “With love for mankind and hatred for sins.” And so he's sort of is and, you know, you got to assume, Augustine, maybe getting this from his own approach to the Scriptures. And so there seems to be something in the ether about our inheritance as Christians, both in church history and in the Bible, that leads reasonable people to conclude this is a good posture, that we should hate sin and yet love, love people at some capacity. And so where the actual phrase, though I don't know, I couldn't track it down. Like who exactly? You know, there's always these phrases that exist and you're like, was it Homer Simpson that first said that, or was Homer Simpson quoting? Sharifa >> Was it Benjamin Franklin? Nika >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Sharifa >> Where did this come from? Nika >> Yeah, yeah. So I'm sure some pastor did a really good job creating this pithy saying. And it had sticking abilities.

Dr. Kelley Mathews Seana Scott What is your purpose in God's story? Seana Scott joins Dr. Kelley Mathews to discuss what it means to become "faith-full" not "fear-full" as you discern your purpose and follow Jesus right where you are. Seana spent years confused about what a woman's purpose really is. Don't miss this conversation if you are seeking to follow God! This episode is also available on video. Recommended resources Seana's substack Well Soul Life The ONE Story Bible study. (This study is currently being revised to make it shorter and simpler. It should be complete by Nov. 1. If you are interested in a copy, contact us. As soon as it is available, we will email you.) This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 02:18 What in your life story caused you to develop your ministry of a well-soul life? 04:31 What is the story of God, the meta-narrative? 08:17 Defining a woman's purpose 11:05 What does it mean to be God's image? 12:49 Theology of disability 15:25 Is God's purpose different for men and women? 19:31 Encouragement for women to move into her purpose 23:04 Resources 24:42 Final words TranscriptKelley >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women's Ministry. I am Kelley Mathews, your host. And today I have with you a friend of mine, Seana Scott. Seana is—I’m going to go back to when we met several years back. But before I do that, let me give you her bio and why we have her with us today. Seana is an author, a speaker, and she is the founder of Well Soul Life, which is a ministry dedicated to journeying with others to know God's Word, to walk with God, to live with purpose. She is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, and she writes for a lot of Christian publications. She has a devotional Bible study that is published or will be published in fall of 2026, depending on when you hear this podcast. And when she's not in her chair studying and writing, she is enjoying time with her kids and her husband, and we will give you all the information on how to connect with Seana in our show notes. So welcome Seana. Thanks for being here. Seana >> Thank you. I am so excited to be here. I have long appreciated the work that you ladies are doing. Kelley >> Well, you really fit well within this and the work you've been doing. When we met, which was 2018. Okay, so however many years ago that was we were at a writing festival and you were part of a class. I think I was probably auditing or I was just along for the ride because I had long graduated. Maybe I was the T.A. I don't remember exactly. But you were really getting going in your writing career, and we spent some time getting to know each other and working on one of your articles. And so that was just the beginning of a great friendship. And you have really continued strong in that ministry, and it's been fun to watch. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. So you have this overriding message of, well-soul life. So give us some background of what is your ministry, why that title and what are you doing? Seana >> Absolutely. So really, I think ministry comes from our story, right? The things God calls us to comes from the things he's brought us through. And in my story, if I had days to tell it, I would. But in my story, there's been different seasons where I struggled in my sense of wholeness because I really didn't have sound theology. I really didn't understand who God is. And no one ever taught me how to read the Word. So one of my passions is helping the Bible-curious to become Bible-confident. So that's the know God's Word part. And then walk with God. No one ever taught me spiritual practices, and the more I learned spiritual practices, the more I experienced that wholeness that shalom the Bible says we can find in the Lord. And so I am passionate about helping others. If they don't know spiritual practices to get started, or to take the next step in that intimate relationship with God.

Dr. Sandra Glahn Sharifa Stevens It may seem redundant to revisit women in the Bible, but as new information has come to light, we now know that some of what we’ve heard (and perhaps even taught ourselves) isn’t accurate. Dr. Sandra Glahn of Dallas Seminary provides five reasons for us to do the work of once again studying the stories and references to these women. Don't miss this conversation hosted by BOW Ministry Team Member Sharifa Stevens. Let's revisit women in the Bible! Recommended resources A Woman’s Place is in the Story: Seeing Women in the Biblical Narrative Visual Museum of Women in Christianity The Early Church Office of Widow, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS) article by Dr. Glahn Ordination Prayer of the Widows BOW's Church Issues This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:33 Introductions 01:33 Why relook at women of the Bible? 02:59 Reason 1: Because of the texts in the Scripture 08:27 Reason 2: Because of what we see historically 17:10 Reason 3: Because we can now access more with the internet 20:09 Reason 4: Because we know more about social history 26:17 Reason 5: Because of the ancient inscriptions 40:37 Other Resources   TranscriptSharifa >> Hello everyone, and welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. I am one of your hosts, Sharifa Stephens, and today I have the pleasure of speaking to Dr. Sandra Glahn. Doctor, and I love saying that. Dr. Glahn >> Because you know me long before I was doctor. Sharifa >> Yes, you did. Dr. Sandra Glahn is a journalist and also the author, coauthor or editor of more than 20 books, including the book A Woman's Place is in the Story: Seeing Women in the Biblical Narrative. Dr. Glahn is a seminary professor, and her most recent endeavor is the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity. Welcome, Dr. Glahn Dr. Glahn >> Thank you. Always great to see you. Sharifa >> Always great to see you as well. Today we're going to look at the always relevant topic of women in the Bible. We're going to be talking about reasons to take a fresh look at women in the Bible. And that's a hermeneutical question. It's a literary question. It's an opportunity to consider sources of interpretation. Right? Dr. Glahn >> Yeah. Sharifa >> So I mean, fire way. I would like to learn. Dr. Glahn >> Yeah. When we're talking women of the Bible, you know, specifically, this conversation isn't just the Abigails and the Eves, but it’s—what about those hard verses about head coverings and women's silence? And one of the things I've noticed as I talk on this subject, that even people that are really committed to women's flourishing in the church and they're using their gifts, sometimes they'll have doubts about why are we relooking at this? Are we changing history or are we pushing back, pushing back against 2000 years of tradition and history? And the answer to that is no. And how do we know that is no. And I got five reasons for us to reconsider. Sharifa >> Five? Dr. Glahn >> Five. You know, it's convenient that it works out that way, you know. But the first one is actual textual reasons. We have reasons to relook at the text, partly because think back with me of when women really started entering the academy in recent history. We've had women Bible translators for a really long time. But women's eyes on the texts are influencing translation in a good way. And I'll start maybe with a different kind of example on that is about ten years ago, some of my African scholar friends contributed to the African Study Bible. Well, why do we need that? Well, because if you've lived in some of those places, some of the place names are familiar to you, or in one case, somebody had lived in a culture that really didn't have much paper. It was really rural and really remote. And so when they came to the book of Ruth and there's an exchange of a shoe, it made perfect sense to them. They would point to a stack of rocks and go,

Ann McKinley Kelly Arabie Dementia is a difficult illness, and so we need to think about what the church and dementia looks like. Jesus called us to love the least of these, just as he did. Today millions of people with dementia need our love in tangible ways. Ann McKinley provides understanding, encouragement and practical ideas in this conversation with Kelly Arabie of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. If you missed it, our first conversation with Ann, "Learning about Dementia" is available on the BOW Podcast or on video. This episode is available on video as well. Recommended resources DFDallas.org DFAmerica.org Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:01 What does it mean to be a dementia-friendly faith community? 02:58 How does dementia challenge our understanding of faith and personhood? 04:28 What are the growth edges for churches? 08:29 How can a church shift its mindset to shift out mindset about how God values people? 11:26 How can the church services and programs reach those with dementia? 14:46 What gives you hope for the future of dementia-friendly churches? 19:15 The promise that no one walks alone 21:19 Resources TranscriptKelly >> Welcome everyone to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. My name is Kelly Arabie and today we are back with Ann McKinley talking about dementia and the church. If you missed our first podcast, it was such a great conversation on learning about dementia, and I encourage you to go find that on our website. But today we're specifically talking about dementia and faith communities. Ann McKinley works with Juliette Fowler Communities in East Dallas, leading their citywide initiative, Dementia Friendly Dallas, which is committed to empowering those affected by dementia. Ann, what does it mean to be a dementia friendly faith community? Ann >> Great question. Most people think about grants or worship services or programs or, you know, special signage and all those things are very important when we want to engage people in our churches who are living with dementia. And those things matter. But they're not the total picture. To me, a dementia friendly faith community is one where people living with dementia and of course, those that are caring for them, their care partners, they know that they are seen, they’re valued and they’re loved. A dementia-friendly faith community doesn't define a person by their diagnoses. They are still defined by who they are—and that is that their beloved child of God. That doesn't change. So when we are working to create a dementia-friendly faith community, we're trying to create a culture of belonging. It means that people don't have to wonder if they're going to be welcomed or accepted, or that when their loved one repeats a question or is disruptive during a service that their condition worsens, they know that they don't have to apologize or stay home. They're not going to worry about how other people might respond. Dementia-friendly faith communities also recognize that that person still has gifts to share and offer, and they will actually teach us more about our own faith and our own presence and our own love. So our goal is not to care for people with dementia. Our role is to be in community with them. Kelly >> Love that. I love that. So how does dementia challenge our understanding of faith and personhood? Ann >> One of our five key messages of dementia friend, is that a person is more than their dementia. And that's important for us to rethink our assumptions about people and our assumptions about what a person with dementia is, does, and what they're able to do. We often equate faith with what we know, what we remember. So when you're thinking about a person who may not remember the words or how to pray out loud or some of those things, or to be able to articulate the passages that we're reading or the liturgy in the church, you know, that could look like a disruption.

Ann McKinley Kelly Arabie Learning about dementia helps us understand and love well those who have it. Ann McKinley joins BOW Team Member Kelly Arabie to aid us in being the friends, family and neighbors those affected by this diease need in order to show them the love of God. For families, learning about dementia is crucial. For friends, it helps us treat others as we want to be treated if we eveh have to deal with dementia ourselves. Resources DFDallas.org DFAmerica.org This episode is also available on video. Timestamps: 00:21 Meeting Ann and her heart for dementia education 02:19 What is dementia? 04:11 Signs and symptoms of Alzheimer's 05:38 How should a family respond? 08:45 How does someone with dementia thrive? 13:45 What challenges do the families face? 15:38 How can we raise awareness? 19:55 Resources TranscriptKelly >> Welcome everyone to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. I'm Kelly Arabie and today we are talking with Ann McKinley on Learning About Dementia. Ann works with the Juliet Fowler Communities in East Dallas, leading their citywide initiative, Dementia Friendly Dallas, committed to empowering those affected by dementia. Ann, welcome. So glad to have you here. Ann >> Thank you so much, Kelly. Kelly >> Tell us, how did you find yourself in this arena for ministry? Ann >> Well, as you said, I work for Juliet Fowler. I've been in the senior living community for over 20 years. And so of course I have professional experiences with helping families. But it was through my own personal experiences that I found the Dementia Friendly Initiative. I'm a daughter of dementia. Both of my parents had dementia and that did not preclude me. My professional experiences did not preclude me from being that daughter who was googling at night and looking for answers and responses. We in our family really thought we had all our ducks in a row. My husband's an attorney. I have a sister who's a doctor, another sister who's a nurse married to a doctor. So and I'm in the senior living business. We thought we were prepared and had it all already. But dementia doesn't follow your plan. And so I found Dementia Friendly America and recognized that that was something that could be helpful to our community. It made me realize that there were gaps in understanding and gaps in services that existed. And I felt like at some point in time, that was something that I wanted Juliet Fowler to get behind. And so within a short time they did. And here we are. Kelly >> So let's talk a little bit, say more about the gaps in understanding. Could you help us understand a little bit what is dementia? Ann >> Yes. Well dementia is a term. It's an umbrella term that describes—not the diseases. It's not the disease itself, but it's an array of symptoms. The symptoms of cognitive function. So it's not just memory loss. People think immediately of memory loss. But it's not just memory loss. It can also be vision. It's communication. It's mobility. It's depth perception. It's a lot of different things that are all managed by the brain. And so when a dementia impacts your brain, all of those functions are impacted as well eventually. Kelly >> So say more maybe about the symptoms of dementia. Those are some broad. Ann >> They are broad and there's actually many medical conditions that can cause dementia. And so the first thing a person really should do is we have to be very honest and upfront with our own physician. When we start recognizing a difference in our own self, we need to have those conversations because there are reversible medical conditions that can create and can mimic dementia. So first you got to know what you're dealing with. Alzheimer's is the most prevalent of the dementias. It's actually they estimate 60 to 80% of your dementia falls in under the Alzheimer's bracket. But some of the other dementias are frontotemporal, vascular dementia,

Rebecca Carrell Many evangelical churches have failed to give their congregants permission to grieve for their friends and loved ones who have passed away. They seem unaware of how that has hurt the spiritual and mental health of many of them. In this episode Rebecca Carrell suggests various ways that the church and even the larger American culture have done this. In her conversation with Dr. Kay Daigle, she uses scriptures to explain the biblical pattern which provides permission to grieve for all of us who don't know how to grieve well. Kay Daigle Recommended resources Learning to Lament Bible study BOW’s two-part video/podcast series on Lament with Dr. Nika Spaulding: 1- Understanding Lament and 2- Practicing Lament. Lamenting Current Events Podcast or Video with Jodie Niznik This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 01:47 How are we dealing with grief overall in our Western culture? 06:56 It feels like somehow tears are bad. 09:44 What does the Bible teach us to do?16:27 Saying and doing the wrong thing with those who grieve 21:15 Viewing grief as getting in the way of happiness 22:48 Biblical pattern for dealing with grief 30:21 What would you tell someone whose spouse told them not to grieve? 32:29 Closing thoughts and resources TranscriptKay >> Hi I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to this episode of our podcast. We are delighted today to welcome Rebecca Carrell back. Rebecca, we're so glad that you're here with us. Rebecca >> Thank you for having me. It's always such a pleasure to join you. Kay >> Oh, we love it when you come. And I'm very excited about this topic that we're going to talk about. But let me tell everybody just a little bit about you. And they can find the rest on our website if they want more information. She does have a Bachelor of Arts degree in Christian Education from Dallas Seminary, just like I do, and she is working there presently on her doctorate in education. And she is also mentoring and teaching at the seminary in Media Arts and Worship Department, as well as educational ministries and leadership department as well. You've got to be a busy person. Rebecca >> They like to keep me busy. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to post-doctoral life. Kay >> Yeah. And when will that be? When do you expect that to happen? Rebecca >> Oh, not anytime soon. I think about two years. I'm really hoping for two years. Kay >> Yeah, well, that sounds reasonable. Rebecca >> Yeah, yeah. Kay >> Well, today our topic is about grief. We are going to talk about “You have permission to grieve.” And when Rebecca suggested this is a topic, I was very excited because I believe that the way we deal with grief in today's church is not healthy for the most part, and it's widespread in our society. But it shouldn't happen in the church, is the way I feel about it. So, Rebecca, describe how we in today's Western culture deal with grief. Rebecca >> Well, Kay, about 10 or 12 years ago, probably maybe even 12 or 13 years ago, I attended a funeral. A friend of mine lost her brother and he had been in his early 40s, left behind two young children, a wife. And it was a tragedy, the way death is always a tragedy. But the circumstances surrounding his death were particularly heartbreaking. It was a drug overdose. He had struggled throughout his life and OD'd on drugs. I was at the funeral, snuck in just a little bit late, came straight from work, and as I sat down, the pastor crossed the stage, took to the podium and thundered in this loud voice that just filled up the room. He said, “We are not grieving. We are celebrating. Today we are celebrating because we know where he is.” And I knew what he was trying to do, and I knew that he was trying to encourage us, that because someone is in Christ, we don't grieve as though we have no hope but to take away the one place left in society where it's okay to a...

Dr. Kelley Mathews Sharifa Stevens If you, like most of us in this audience, are Protestant, be prepared for a treat as you listen to this conversation about women saints we should know. Dr. Kelley Mathews joins host Sharifa Stevens to discuss a number of women from the early church who were named saints because of their faith and actions. You'll come away excited and perhaps surprised as you hear about these godly women who played major roles in church history. They teach us great lessons from their love for the Lord, their tenacity and bold courage. Recommended resources BOW's resources on Studying and Teaching the Bible Hildegard: A playlist of her music and her biography The Passions of Perpetua and Felicity Augustine's sermon (#280) on Perpetua & Felicity Monica  We learn most of our content about her in Augustine's Confessions. Clare: Biography Read her "Rule" Brigid article This episode is available on video as well. Timestamps: 00:21 Introductions 02:37 The difference between knowing and venerating the saints 03:40 Perpetua and Felicity, martyrs 12:10 Monica, Augustine's mother 19:29 Brigid of Kildare 27:35 Hildegard of Bingen 34:18 Clare of Assisi 41:32 Other resources TranscriptSharifa >> Welcome to Beyond Ordinary Women. I'll be your host for today, Sharifa Stevens. And today our topic is going to be about women, saints that we all should know about. I'm really excited to dig into this topic, and we're going to have our expert Dr. Kelley Mathews, explain more to us about these women whom we should know. And I want to tell you about Kelley. I bet most of you know Dr. Kelley already. But let me tell you a little bit more, just in case. Kelley Mathews, Dr. Kelley Mathews, has ministered to the church through writing and editing for over 25 years. She's a coauthor of eight books, including 40 Questions About Women in Ministry. And also she's a freelance writer and editor. A former women's ministry director and Bible study teacher. Kelley has been married to John, a school administrator, for almost 29 years. They are parents to four active, mostly grown children. Kelley earned her Master of Theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and earned a Doctor of Ministry in New Testament from Houston Theological Seminary just in 2025. Welcome. Now, I can't call you Dr. Kelley. Why? Kelley >> You kind of overdid it there. That's all. Sharifa >> That's my job. It's my job to overdo it. Kelley >> Okay. Okay. I'll take it from you. Not from anybody else, though. No, it's so new. It's still very strange to hear it. So that's all. Sharifa >> You earned it. So I'm using it. Kelley >> I had a lot of fun in that program, so if I could still go back to class, I would. You know, I shouldn't say that too loudly around here. Sharifa >> Tuition-free class? Yeah. Kelley >> Yeah. No, it was a great program over in Houston. So and that's a lot of what we're going to cover today is what I studied there. So yeah. Sharifa >> Excellent. Well let's dive in. We're discussing women saints who we should know. But before we get into the specific saints, I just wanted to know, is knowing the saints the same as venerating or worshiping them? Kelley >> No. Absolutely not. This is basically history. And I was a history major for my bachelor's degree. And so coming full circle with this theological study, I naturally went to the history of the church. So New Testament kind of morphed also into the early church, those first few centuries of what was the church getting up to? And so knowing the people. I mean I would assume that a lot of Christians would recognize names like Augustine or Aquinas or maybe Saint Francis or Luther. We're just giving you female equivalents, basically. So, yes, just as there were fathers of the church, there were mothers of the church. Sharifa >> I dig it. Thank you. Okay, so let's get into specifics.

In this fun episode, BOW's guest, Dr. Nika Spaulding, shares how to create Bible teaching that sticks. In other words, how can you, as a Bible teacher, use tangible teaching tools to help your audience remember the biblical point of your teaching? Using the senses, physical teaching aids and play will enable you to enable others to better grasp and possibly clarify deeper biblical concepts. Recommended resources nikaspaulding.com BOW resource "Choosing Powerful Illustrations and Applications" on video or BOW podcast. Made to Stick by Chip & Dan Heath Nika's decks of cards: Gospel cards (coming soon) & Minor Prophets cards Bible Bricks This episode is also available on video. Timestamps: 00:20 Introductions 01:26 Why use teaching aids? 02:30 What teaching aids do we see in the Bible? 07:42 God's teaching aid: Ezekiel 09:18 Physical teaching aids 29:07 Learning through play 37:04 Other resources   TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle. Welcome to the Beyond Ordinary Women Podcast. Today, our guest is Nika Spaulding. Nika >> Hey, Kay. Kay >> Welcome, Nika. It's always so much fun to have you. And for those of you who know Nika, Nika has been on our podcast many times and so we’re always thrilled when she has time to be with us. She has a masters of Theology from Dallas Seminary. She actually went to Oklahoma University, but we don't really care about that part. And she has a Doctor of Ministry degree from Northern Seminary. So she's Dr. Spaulding. But I will not call her that. I will call you Nika. Nika >> Thank you. Kay >> Nika is really sort of our go to person for hard questions and about teaching the Bible. And so today we are talking about teaching the Bible, and we're going to talk about using teaching aids in teaching the Bible. So Nika why do teachers need to use teaching aids? Nika >> Yeah, it's such a good question. And I don't know, Kay, if you've had like your philosophy of teaching develop on this. I would say for me, this is a more recent addition to how I teach the Bible, and that is—when I was a young teacher, I kind of wanted to teach all these cool, nifty things that maybe people didn't know on their own. And now I really, really just want to make the Bible stick. I want when people leave for them to remember what we talked about, for them to be able to meditate on it. And what I have found is, you know, you probably think back to your experience when you were in elementary, junior high, high school, and you think about lessons that really stuck. There's a chance that your teacher used some sort of teaching, some sort of illustration, or maybe they brought something in the classroom or something like that. I have discovered just over the years that using teaching aids, whether it's props or engaging the senses or something like that, really allows us to help the Bible stick and that's really the goal with the teaching aids. Kay >> Great. So what are what are some of the things that you do see things in the Bible that are teaching aids? Nika >> Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's what's interesting about it is when you think about even let's say you want to teach wisdom, you go to the Book of Proverbs so often what you see from the Proverbs is they take stuff you already know, stuff from nature, stuff that you've experienced in life. And then they say, “Hey, this, this is what that's like.” So a perfect example is you might talk about honey is how the Word of God is. It's so sweet, right? And if you've ever tasted honey, especially pre modern food where we have sugar at our fingertips at all times, you kind of think about how like, am I? I'm sure in my pantry right now I can eat sugar, but in the ancient days, having that ability, honey, was a really sweet experience. So to compare that to the Bible, we see how the Bible also uses teaching as Jesus does. This in his parables all the time.

Jodie Niznik Kay Daigle Frequent guest Jodie Niznik joins Dr. Kay Daigle to explain how using the biblical pattern of lament can help us process and work through what we see and read about world, national or local events. There is much to grieve beyond our personal sorrows, and lament enables us to go to God in a healthy and healing way. Recommended resources Learning to Lament, a BOW study to prepare for walking through any time of grief, anger, or pain. BOW's two-part video/podcast series on Lament with Dr. Nika Spaulding: 1- Understanding Lament and 2- Practicing Lament. Our two-part series on anger: Does my Anger Matter to God? and The Gift of Anger. This episode is available on video if you prefer. Timestamps: 00:20 Introductions 01:40 What is lament? 03:09 Our culture (and especially the church) struggles to deal with hard emotions 06:59 What should we be lamenting about current events? 12:17 How does lament differ from complaining? 13:51 Three movements in lament 15:59 Practically speaking, how should we proceed? 23:19 How do we choose what to lament? 35:21 Resources to teach us more about lament and help us lament for ourselves TranscriptKay >> Hi. I am Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. Welcome to our podcast. In this episode we are going to talk about lament. We're going to talk about lamenting current events. And our special guest is Jodie Niznik. Welcome, Jodie. Thank you for being here with us again. Jodie >> It's great to be with you again, Kay. Thanks for having me. Kay >> Well, we always love having you. Jodie is an author, a teacher and a speaker, and we have had her discuss many things that you can find on our website by just searching for Jodie Niznik if you go to BeyondOrdinaryWomen.org. So she is—I‘ll tell you a little bit about her. She has an undergraduate degree in broadcast journalism from the University of Colorado, and she has a degree in Christian education from Dallas Seminary with an emphasis in Christian Education, the same one that I have with Women's Ministry emphasis. So we trust you, Jodie. We are so happy to have you talking with us about lament. Just tell us a little bit about what lament is. Jodie >> Yeah. I'm glad that we're talking about lament, especially in our current cultural climate that we're finding ourselves in. Lament really is first and foremost, prayer. It's a way to take the things that are really painful, the things that are confusing, the things that we’re grieving to God. And to be really honest with him about wrestling through those things. And the thing I love about lament is it's modeled for us in Scripture. A third of the Psalms are lament Psalms. I just heard somebody say, “Maybe God knew that about a third of our days were going to be tough, and we needed to know how to lament.” And I thought, oh, yeah, I think he's probably right. So lament is modeled for us in Scripture. It's a way for us to process things that are confusing and painful with God, but it always leads us back to God. And the purpose is to lead us back to trusting God, even when we don't understand what's happening. Kay >> Absolutely. And, you know, lament is found all over the Bible, not just in the Psalms. Jodie >> Yeah. Kay >> So, you know, if you wonder about lament, it is very biblical. It's not just an Old Testament thing. It is all over the Bible. And don't you feel like our culture is not very good at knowing how to deal with grief, sorrow, and these current events that we're talking about now, we don't know what to do with our emotions. Jodie >> Yeah. I mean, and I think, I, I don't think we know what to do with our emotions. And I think unfortunately, the Christian church in particular does not know what to do with our emotions, and we should be the ones that actually know the most what to do with them, because we do know that there is a bigger story happening. And we do know that even though things feel rea...

Dr. Jackie Roese In this final episode of BOW's three-part series on relationships between men and women as the church, guest Dr. Jackie Roese describes living out that calling as God's dream team. Instead of seeing danger involving women, what if we saw one another as brothers and sisters in Christ? You won't want to miss this final episode that provides a glimpse of what a thriving partnership between the sexes would look like, God's dream team, and how that would affect the purpose of the church. Kay Daigle Resources If you missed them, go back and to the previous episodes in the RelationSHIFT series: 1. It's More Than Being Biblical and 2. It's More Than a Sex Narrative. All episodes are available on video only with others that deal with the issues of men and women. Timestamps: 00:21 Introduction to the series & Jackie 02:08 What does God's intention for men & women working together look like? 04:34 Understand our time & get educated. 06:42 Find a male advocate. 08:52 Jackie's example of a conversation with both men & women where women share their church experiences 10:47 Contacts & resources TranscriptKay >> Hi. I'm Kay Daigle of Beyond Ordinary Women Ministries. I'd like to welcome you to the third video in our series on It's Time for a RelationshipSHIFT. And we're talking about men and women working together as Christians. And I'm with Dr. Jackie Roese, who has a book, RelationSHIFT, as well as some other books. You can read about Jackie, and her material will be on our website as well. You can link to her ministry, The Marcella Project, as well as her material, because probably by now, if you've watched the first two, you want to hear more from Jackie. So we're about to do that. Now we're going to talk about God's dream team. We've talked about some of the problems with men and women in the church and some of the teaching that's behind some of that, some of the misconceptions that's behind that. And now we want to talk about what it would really look like. And I know as a woman who has volunteered in churches as well as been on staff, that sometimes you're quite aware that you have no voice in anything and you'd really like to change that. So how can we as women, affect some change in the church? Jackie >> Great. And that is the big million dollar question, isn't it? I would say first and foremost, we need brothers and sisters bringing change to the church, not just women. And we'll get to that. First and foremost, I think women need to get informed about God's bigger vision, about what did God intend for men and women to serve together collectively in the home, in the church, community, workplace. And I think probably one of the best descriptions out there right now is Carolyn Custis James' description of male and female called The Blessed Alliance. And I'm going to summarize it really quick. But basically, she says in Genesis 1 and 2, God formed the foundation of creation based on two load bearing walls. The first being humanity's relationship with God. And the second load bearing wall in which the world was supposed to operate was male and female relationships. Not just in marriage, which we tend to read only the Genesis passage in a marriage paradigm, but it's actually also talking about community brother, sister. And there's lots that I've written on that and so if that sounds different. But these two load-bearing walls is what the world was supposed to operate on. And together these two are given a mandate. They are to rule, subdue and fill the earth, which fill the earth does include procreation. But really beyond that, what it means is to create civilization. God throws raw material at them and says, have at it. Create societies, create cultures. And so that is the job of male and female and they do it together. So we need to see first and foremost that that is God's desire. We have done a great job of helping humanity reconnect with God.